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Kevin
05-09-11, 18:17
It's coming around again. We've won twice in years past, but it was vetoed each time. This time it looks like it will go, but if you would please take a minute to vote here:

http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/121478429.html

MeanRider
05-09-11, 19:06
My State finally starts getting conservitive, and I'll be moving to follow work. WTF over

ST911
05-09-11, 19:12
If you can't get constitutional carry, get what you can. Then progress incrementally when you aren't awash in chaos, death, and mayhem, and the blood isn't running the streets.

Good luck.

Go Pack! (Get it? Go Pack? Pack heat? :D)

Irish
06-15-11, 13:15
GOOD NEWS!!! http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/123826279.html

tuck
06-15-11, 13:19
So now that the bill made it through the senate and assuming it goes through the assembly, and walker signs it, what is the next step? How do we go about getting our CCW through the state?

Sorry if this info is already out there, but I couldn't find a definitive answer...

Raven Armament
06-15-11, 14:15
Well, get the bill number and read it online. It will lay out the procedure for the application and issuing procedures. Only way to be sure.

Kevin
06-15-11, 21:19
I have a PDF copy of a 21-page document published by the Wisconsin Legislative Council that is a synopsis of the bill.

Until I figure out how to post it, if anybody wants a copy PM me or email: kevin@milwaukeecops.com

It looks pretty good to me.

tuck
06-16-11, 00:50
I have a PDF copy of a 21-page document published by the Wisconsin Legislative Council that is a synopsis of the bill.

Until I figure out how to post it, if anybody wants a copy PM me or email: kevin@milwaukeecops.com

It looks pretty good to me.

You have mail...

Kevin
06-16-11, 08:57
Link straight to the wisconsin.gov website:

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/2011/proposals/sb93

ST911
06-16-11, 17:08
It will be interesting to watch all this play out in the rural and metro areas, and with LE. I suspect it will be much like MN's implementation of CCW.

tuck
06-16-11, 18:22
I'm from a very rural part of WI and I can't see the new bill having a profound affect on the way of life there, but I am very interested in seeing how things play out in some of the more populated areas. Madison and the Milwaukee area especially. As a criminal justice student, I'm even more interested in how LE is going to react to it. In all, I think it's a step in the right direction for the state, and hopefully its not the last.

At the very least I have an excuse to go holster shopping...

ST911
06-17-11, 13:04
I'm from a very rural part of WI and I can't see the new bill having a profound affect on the way of life there, but I am very interested in seeing how things play out in some of the more populated areas. Madison and the Milwaukee area especially. As a criminal justice student, I'm even more interested in how LE is going to react to it. In all, I think it's a step in the right direction for the state, and hopefully its not the last. At the very least I have an excuse to go holster shopping...

There will be the normal north-south, metro/rural divide. I've talked to some WI CLEOs and senior staff. To their credit, regardless of their own opinion many seem to be approaching the new CCW laws from a practical, operational point of view. How they will verify, what interactions with citizens will be like, officer and citizen complaints arising out of CCW contacts, temporary seizures, disclosures, etc.

Most have or will look to MN, which implemented its shall-issue quite successfully.

Of course, there are hand-wringers too.

Kevin
06-18-11, 11:53
The bill is pretty decent. Not perfect, but very balanced, I think. The high points:

* it is a concealed weapon, not concealed firearm, permit

* recognizes other states permits as long as that state has a permit that requires training

* fines for minor violations, (i.e., forgetting your permit when you are packing,) are very cheap and releasable

* training requirements are very simple and basic, perhaps to simple & basic

* DOJ can't charge more than $50 for the license and they must issue it within either 21 or 45 days....the wording here is a little cloudy

* records of permit holders are only releasable/storable for very specific purposes,

* employers cannot prohibit employees from storing a weapon in there own vehicle, even if parked on the employers property

There is, obviously, a lot more to it but these are the high points and I've only got so much time.

As far as LE reactions to it. Several years ago during in-service the staff did a very informal, un-scientific, survey to gauge officers thoughts on CCW in general. Take in mind, this was only Milwaukee PD and as I said, very un-scientific. The results were split in thirds.....1/3 favored it, 1/3 didn't care either way, 1/3 were against.

The day that I was there and saw the results, the third that favored it were generally the more hard-core coppers/DET's/SGT's/LT's. This group was also generally the hunters and recreational or competitive shooters; mostly the type of person that is a little more knowledgable about guns and the gun debate.

The middle group is still on our side of the fence.

The 1/3 opposed.....well.......let's just say they're the type you probably won't be coming into contact with anyways.

I believe MPD's chief personally favors it, despite what he says publicly. He's been the Chief at agencies in other states that have CCW so he knows first-hand that permit holders are not trouble makers. Plus a year or two ago he was calling for registration and no private sales, but he has said none of that recently.

I also recently watched while a chief from another PD fingerprinted folks himself for Florida's and Utah's permit.

So, it's gonna pass this time around, of that there is no doubt. The only questions are in some of the fine print; and what sort of delay tactics are the lib-tards going to put us through.

tuck
06-18-11, 23:49
So, it's gonna pass this time around, of that there is no doubt. The only questions are in some of the fine print; and what sort of delay tactics are the lib-tards going to put us through.

This is the only thing that has me concerned...

Any input as to when the applications will be available from the state .gov?

Irish
06-20-11, 10:49
This is a must read! http://politics.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474979474256


Mayor Soglin stated that he will sign an ordinance that will not allow anyone to carry concealed weapons on private property unless the carrier has written permission from the owner of the property.

Karcas
06-20-11, 12:36
There is an ordinance being proposed in Eau Claire, WI as well. Start reading on page 13.

http://www.co.eau-claire.wi.us/Agenda_and_Minutes/docs/CountyBoard/pkt/062111_pkt.pdf

This ordinance is chock full of errors, LIES, and misleading statements meant to scare people. We need to be there and stand up and speak on this. Read it and take notes.. speak on point.. speak the truth.

We had it tabled once but it is being taken up again TOMORROW June 21st at 7:00pm. If you are from the area (or can drive here) I urge you to be there at 6:00pm and meet up with the members of the group WISCONSIN CARRY INC. They will be there handing out "Gun's Save Lives" buttons.

-Matt

ST911
06-20-11, 16:16
There is an ordinance being proposed in Eau Claire, WI as well. Start reading on page 13.

http://www.co.eau-claire.wi.us/Agenda_and_Minutes/docs/CountyBoard/pkt/062111_pkt.pdf

This ordinance is chock full of errors, LIES, and misleading statements meant to scare people. We need to be there and stand up and speak on this. Read it and take notes.. speak on point.. speak the truth.

We had it tabled once but it is being taken up again TOMORROW June 21st at 7:00pm. If you are from the area (or can drive here) I urge you to be there at 6:00pm and meet up with the members of the group WISCONSIN CARRY INC. They will be there handing out "Gun's Save Lives" buttons.

-Matt

That appears to be a resolution recommended by a sub-committee of the county board, not an ordinance. It's essentially a formal declaration that the body opposes CCW as constructed, but doesn't carry any force of law. Read: It's a whine letter.

Eau Claire and Eau Claire County aren't any different than a number of other upper-midwest cities in the ~65k population range. That author's use of stats and data is...interesting...to say the least.

Good luck.

Karcas
06-20-11, 16:26
You are correct, it is a resolution with no force of law.

IF they pass the resolution and the legislature believes EVERYBODY in Eau Claire County opposes concealed carry, or wants further restrictions, it may sway the votes of one or two representatives and thus affecting the entire state. When one county takes action, the anti-rights “league of municipalities” helps the others take the same action thus affecting the entire state. Too many times we have seen little things start in one township or county and all of a sudden POOF, it has taken effect statewide.

Irish
06-22-11, 14:18
VICTORY! http://www.wisn.com/r/28313717/detail.html

Good news for Wisconsin! (http://lacrossetribune.com/news/local/article_98b32dea-9c5e-11e0-8218-001cc4c03286.html)

Me personally I'm for Constitutional carry but this is definitely a step forward.

Traveshamockery
06-22-11, 14:57
Congrats, Wisconsin! Now start working on those reciprocity agreements!

Kevin
06-22-11, 17:08
As soon as the governor signs it....which should be soon as he is a pretty strong supporter....DOJ has 4 months to get the system up and running. Somewhere in the articles you guys linked to is a positive statement from the DOJ regarding:

"and we will be working hard to put ourselves in position to begin issuing permits as soon as the law allows," spokesman Bill Cosh said.

Karcas
06-22-11, 18:31
VICTORY! http://www.wisn.com/r/28313717/detail.html

Good news for Wisconsin! (http://lacrossetribune.com/news/local/article_98b32dea-9c5e-11e0-8218-001cc4c03286.html)

Me personally I'm for Constitutional carry but this is definitely a step forward.

Me too!!

I talked with Darren LaSorte (Wisconsin NRA lobbyist) in Madison yesterday. He said that the NRA will continue to work for Constitutional carry. I think the feeling is that in 5 years or so (when people are ready to renew permits) we can make that push. We will have to give the lefties time to see that the wild west shootouts do not happen.
Permits or not, this was a big deal. I am just glad that I was able to make the trip down there to witness it pass.

Cheers!

Raven Armament
06-25-11, 14:40
Holy shit!!! This is such great news!!!

tuck
06-26-11, 01:42
Well, I picked up a G26 today!!! Now I need to pick up a decent IWB setup, and I'll be good to go.

Its sounds like October/Novemberish will be the earliest we can start applying though.

Raven Armament
06-26-11, 12:37
http://legis.wisconsin.gov/senate/sen11/news/images/0930_001%20FAQ.pdf

ST911
06-26-11, 15:59
It could be written a lot worse. From a quick read...

Training requirement is minimal, with no live fire. Most reasonably legit training will likely make the grade, including hunter safety. Mil, LE, security small arms training will be GTG.

Entering a posted location won't require notice to vacate prior to an offense. That's a bummer. Looks like it's only a class B forfeiture though.

A UT non-resident CFP looks likely to make the list.

No requirement to notify LE if you're carrying, only to produce the permit on demand.

MeanRider
06-26-11, 16:29
First the Pack win the Superbowl, then A Governor that is not afraid to make some changes, and finally a CCW in WI, Hell is freezing over, Now if we could get Paul Ryan in the White House..:lol:

Raven Armament
06-27-11, 09:50
Skintop911, I imagine the DOJ will honor only resident permits, much like Michigan does. I think they will require the permit holder to be a resident of the state whom has issued them the permit.

Kevin
06-27-11, 09:57
The governor hasn't signed it yet and I've been hearing rumors that he wants the training requirement strengthened significantly so as to get the most reciprocity.

I don't know if his line item veto power has any significance in this or not.

I would like to see more specific training. Showing that I took hunters safety 30 years ago when I was 12 doesn't seem to be very relevant..........

Irish
06-27-11, 11:25
I would like to see more specific training. Showing that I took hunters safety 30 years ago when I was 12 doesn't seem to be very relevant..........

You're right, hunter safety and training in general is not relevant. However, the 2nd Amendment of the United States Constitution is relevant and it says "shall not be infringed", that's all that should be needed.

Look at Vermont, Alaska, Arizona and Wyoming for examples of what happens when states actually abide by the Constitution. There is no blood flowing in the streets and no "Wild West" type of shoot outs going on. Montana residents are able to carry concealed without a permit in rural areas but must have a permit within city limits, I don't know the specifics.

I do encourage everyone I know to take shooting classes and to get the proper education regarding handling and using a firearm in our very litigious society. However, I don't think showing a certificate from some class should be a necessary requirement for one to protect oneself and their loved ones.

ST911
06-27-11, 23:54
I am a strong proponent of training. I encourage it, attend it, and deliver it. However, I am opposed to making it a requirement prior to exercising a constitutional right.

Raven Armament
06-28-11, 00:20
Look at Vermont, Alaska, Arizona and Wyoming for examples of what happens when states actually abide by the Constitution.
What is great about those states is their upholding of the Constitutional right, but what if a Vermont resident wanted to carry in Michigan? No resident carry permit, no carry. It's a virtue and a burden at the same time. If you don't travel, it's not an issue.

Irish
06-28-11, 12:04
What is great about those states is their upholding of the Constitutional right, but what if a Vermont resident wanted to carry in Michigan? No resident carry permit, no carry. It's a virtue and a burden at the same time. If you don't travel, it's not an issue.

I agree with you that there are pros and cons. However, I'm also hoping the legislation for nationwide reciprocity goes through and will eliminate all the issues people have with traveling to different states.

I don't know the specifics of the other Constitutional carry states but I know in AZ you can still easily get a permit so that you can have reciprocity with the other states they have agreements with. I have both NV and UT permits and am able to carry legally in the vast majority of the western states. I control the western half of the U.S. along with Canada and some parts south of our border for my company so I run into issues carrying all the time.

CO, NM, OR and CA will not let me conceal carry with the permits I currently possess. Out of those 4 states the only one I can obtain a permit for would be Oregon. With the remaining 3 I have two choices, one being obey the law and risk my family's security, the other being prepared to defend myself and my family at the risk of being charged for breaking their concealed carry laws.

This is a great interactive reciprocity map: http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html

Kevin
06-30-11, 17:37
The latest rumor is the gov's going to sign it July 8th.

Like Irish said, the Second Amendment says: "...shall not be infringed." I agree with the concept of constitutional carry. But concept and reality are different things. And before I go any further I should say I have a financial stake in this as well.

I'm a hard-core supporter of the second amendment in general and concealed carry specifically. I'm very up-front with folks when they ask me about it; hell, I had to get permission in writing from work to do training off-duty. The fact that I am a CCW supporter has caused issues with both my bosses and my peeers who are either down right against it or just don't understand it.

That being said...........

Without a permitting system there is no reciprocity, and total and complete confusion in regards to school zones and the like. With weak permits there's still reciprocity issues.

For years the courts have put reasonable time, place and manner restrictions on our rights, like them or not, the restrictions are there and they're not going away.

We're not talking about your right to vote or your right to peacably assemble. This has the potential to be far more serious, we're talking about untrained, possibly even ignorant people walking around with guns!!

Lately I've helped a friend put on Utah CCW classes. We've done around a dozen if not more in Milwaukee. We bill these as 4-hours, but they inevitably turn into 6-hours plus, simply because we invite and encourage good discussions; and folks always leave these classes grateful for how much they learned. In every class, I've seen people have that moment when the light bulb goes on. When we talk about simple avoidance, or civil ramifications and other things. Many, if not most, people just don't realize the responsibility they are undertaking.

Now, we all know people who simply shouldn't have guns. They have a squeaky clean record, they've never been in trouble, hell they might be friends, spouses, or others we trust.....but they simply have no business carrying or even owning a gun.

(Now I know this next sentence is going to piss people off, but here goes...........)

There needs to be some small hurdle so these folks don't get a permit!!

It's all well and fine to preach "personal responsibility" until you're loved one is the one accidentally injured or killed by one of these fudds.

It's all well and fine to preach "personal responsibility" until some 7-year old innocent bystander gets killed by a stray bullet from a license holder.

On the flip side of that...most people don't realize that they are taking significantly larger risks on the civil side vs. the criminal side.

We need to do everything we can do to avoid innocents getting hurt; and to educate those good and decent people who just don't know.

I think mandating a basic 4-to-6 hour safety & responsibility type class is reasonable, while still a very small hurdle to keep a couple of the dumbest-of-the-dumb fudds away

ST911
07-01-11, 13:11
I think mandating a basic 4-to-6 hour safety & responsibility type class is reasonable, while still a very small hurdle to keep a couple of the dumbest-of-the-dumb fudds away

The "dumbest-of-the-dumb fudds" attend those classes. Some of the "dumbest-of-the-dumb fudds" teach them. There are "dumbest-of-the-dumb fudds" that own the facilities they are held in, too. I know. I've sat those classes. In those places.

Alpha Sierra
07-01-11, 13:35
The latest rumor is the gov's going to sign it July 8th.

Like Irish said, the Second Amendment says: "...shall not be infringed." I agree with the concept of constitutional carry. But concept and reality are different things. And before I go any further I should say I have a financial stake in this as well.

I'm a hard-core supporter of the second amendment in general and concealed carry specifically. I'm very up-front with folks when they ask me about it; hell, I had to get permission in writing from work to do training off-duty. The fact that I am a CCW supporter has caused issues with both my bosses and my peeers who are either down right against it or just don't understand it.

That being said...........

Without a permitting system there is no reciprocity, and total and complete confusion in regards to school zones and the like. With weak permits there's still reciprocity issues.

For years the courts have put reasonable time, place and manner restrictions on our rights, like them or not, the restrictions are there and they're not going away.

We're not talking about your right to vote or your right to peacably assemble. This has the potential to be far more serious, we're talking about untrained, possibly even ignorant people walking around with guns!!

Lately I've helped a friend put on Utah CCW classes. We've done around a dozen if not more in Milwaukee. We bill these as 4-hours, but they inevitably turn into 6-hours plus, simply because we invite and encourage good discussions; and folks always leave these classes grateful for how much they learned. In every class, I've seen people have that moment when the light bulb goes on. When we talk about simple avoidance, or civil ramifications and other things. Many, if not most, people just don't realize the responsibility they are undertaking.

Now, we all know people who simply shouldn't have guns. They have a squeaky clean record, they've never been in trouble, hell they might be friends, spouses, or others we trust.....but they simply have no business carrying or even owning a gun.

(Now I know this next sentence is going to piss people off, but here goes...........)

There needs to be some small hurdle so these folks don't get a permit!!

It's all well and fine to preach "personal responsibility" until you're loved one is the one accidentally injured or killed by one of these fudds.

It's all well and fine to preach "personal responsibility" until some 7-year old innocent bystander gets killed by a stray bullet from a license holder.

On the flip side of that...most people don't realize that they are taking significantly larger risks on the civil side vs. the criminal side.

We need to do everything we can do to avoid innocents getting hurt; and to educate those good and decent people who just don't know.

I think mandating a basic 4-to-6 hour safety & responsibility type class is reasonable, while still a very small hurdle to keep a couple of the dumbest-of-the-dumb fudds away

You're probably completely ignorant that PA and Indiana (to name but just a few, there are several others) have been issuing licenses for DECADES with absolutely zero training requirements and no more problems than those states who require otherwise.

Your fantasy argument falls apart when examined in the harsh light of reality.

Irish
07-01-11, 14:37
Like Irish said, the Second Amendment says: "...shall not be infringed." I agree with the concept of constitutional carry. But concept and reality are different things.
I do appreciate your postition and can understand it. However, reality has proven to work in regards to Constitutional carry in the states of Vermont, Alaska, Arizona and as of today Wyoming. Montana has permitless carry in the rural parts of the state but I don't know all the details.


Without a permitting system there is no reciprocity, and total and complete confusion in regards to school zones and the like. With weak permits there's still reciprocity issues.
I know for a fact that in AZ, AK and WY you can still obtain a permit if you choose to do so but you are not required to obtain one to defend yourself. Reciprocity is important to me, as I do travel quite a bit, but for the vast majority of people it really isn't important as it's made out to be. How often does the typical American leave the state they reside in? Maybe a couple of times a year and for a limited amount of time. If carrying concealed is important for them than they can apply for a permit and pay the taxes that comes along with it. If it isn't important then they shouldn't be burdened with a tax and the necessary permission from their government to defend themselves and their loved ones.


We're not talking about your right to vote or your right to peacably assemble. This has the potential to be far more serious, we're talking about untrained, possibly even ignorant people walking around with guns!!
This sounds like fearmongering to me and something out of the Brady play book. Your right to vote is incredibly serious as it gives powers to an individual to start wars with a lot more guns that are much bigger and more plentiful along with tanks, planes, boats, etc. After all, we're talking about an untrained, ignorant person who has us involved in conflicts in 6 countries currently.


I think mandating a basic 4-to-6 hour safety & responsibility type class is reasonable, while still a very small hurdle to keep a couple of the dumbest-of-the-dumb fudds away
And here we'll have to disagree completely. Since Skintop said it so well I'll just quote him.

I am a strong proponent of training. I encourage it, attend it, and deliver it. However, I am opposed to making it a requirement prior to exercising a constitutional right.

Irish
07-01-11, 15:20
More good news! Wisconsin has a Castle Doctrine bill up for vote as well. (http://www.ammoland.com/2011/06/30/castle-doctrine-self-defense-bill-introduced-in-wisconsin/)


The pendulum of freedom is swinging back from the rights of the law breakers and violent attacker to the rights of the law-abiding and conscientious citizen. Call your legislators, in Wisconsin, to support AB69 and SB79 with the inclusion of protection “any place you may legally be.”

Karcas
07-01-11, 17:40
http://www.weau.com/home/headlines/Walker_to_sign_concealed_carry_next_week_124859489.html

Will be signed at 2:30pm Friday July 8th

Should go into effect November 1st. (first day of the 4th month after signed)



@Irish... next time you're up in Wisconsin let me know. I've got a bottle of Jameson with your name on it!

Irish
07-01-11, 18:21
@Irish... next time you're up in Wisconsin let me know. I've got a bottle of Jameson with your name on it!

Just my flavor! :D

Irish
12-12-11, 13:21
Yo cheeseheads! ;) I realize this has a slim chance of passing but you should be made aware of it. Bill would ban carrying in gas stations. (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/135351193.html)

Just as thousands of Wisconsin residents are starting to use their new permits to carry concealed weapons, a Milwaukee lawmaker has proposed making gas stations off limits.

Assembly Bill 406's sponsor, Rep. Josh Zepnick, (D-Milwaukee), said many station owners, employees and customers are among his constituents and have suffered ongoing violent crime at and around the businesses.

Raven Armament
12-13-11, 01:47
So glad I left WI.

ST911
12-13-11, 10:55
Yo cheeseheads! ;) I realize this has a slim chance of passing but you should be made aware of it. Bill would ban carrying in gas stations. (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/135351193.html)

Having made pit stops at a variety of Milwaukee gas stations over the years, I'll keep my guns, thanks.

kartoffel
12-13-11, 12:51
Yo cheeseheads! ;) I realize this has a slim chance of passing but you should be made aware of it. Bill would ban carrying in gas stations. (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/135351193.html)

Well of course :p Letting gas station employees arm themselves makes the old Stop-N-Rob sooo much more difficult.