View Full Version : P30 for a ccw?
I already have an HK carbine that I love, but I don't know much about their pistols. I've been on the HK boards, but the folks their are so one sided with their opinions that you can't even say the word Glock. So I was pretty close to getting a Glock 19 and my eyes caught a few guns on gunbroker. I'm more than likely going to get a new gun for my ccw but I couldn't help shopping. What are everyone's thoughts on the P30 or even the USP?
The USP is a little bit big for CCW but doable if you wear the right clothes and use the right holster.
The P30 on the other hand is a great pistol for CCW. The only downside to them is the high cost of the mags and the lack of accessories.
Glocks are pretty good pistols, the 19 is one of the best sizes of glocks for CCW. The mags are cheap and it is easy to find any accessory for any glock.
If you did go with the glock you could get the gun, mags, custom sights and ammo for the cost of the HK and I can't say you get much more for the cost of the HK.
Search on P30 yields over a dozen pages worth of threads, few of those are below.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=73074
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=69619
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=78191
There is no reason to choose a P30 over Glock 19 unless you have a specific reason why you want to choose a P30 over Glock 19. Both of those have some advantages over another, neither is better in a global sense. I own both; I can critique either of them on certain points.
Identify your specific needs and demands, and the choice will not be that difficult.
"I'm more than likely going to get a new gun" doesn't sound like a specific need, more like general desire, in which case read all the posts and get whatever appeals to you.
Last I looked, P30 mags were $35, with M&P and Glock mags creeping in price to the point where the cost difference is negligible -- so magazine cost should not be a reason to buy or not buy a P30.
Hrmm.. $35 to $40 for P30 mags, $22 in most places at the most $25 for a glock mag. 10-18 bucks is a pretty big difference to me. On top of that p30 mags are harder to find.
Last I looked, P30 mags were $35, with M&P and Glock mags creeping in price to the point where the cost difference is negligible -- so magazine cost should not be a reason to buy or not buy a P30.
I own both and i carry my G19 over the P30 because it is relatively smaller than the P30 and the i dont want the sandpaper grip of the P30 to rub against my lower back.
The Glock is my beater gun
Sorry I had mentioned in a previous thread that I'm looking for a ccw and one that is accurate as I plan on shooting with it quite a bit at the range. Glock accuracy has always been a concern for me. Also by the time I replace the trigger and add a match barrel, I'd be right there at the same cost as the p30. The price of mags is pretty negligible for me. It's pretty easy to find a Glock to check out in person, but finding a p30 at the local gun shop is a little trickier.
ActiveShooter
05-10-11, 06:53
Buy what feels good to you. The P30 is more expensive but if it is what you shoot well, I would have no reservations carrying it.
Hrmm.. $35 to $40 for P30 mags, $22 in most places at the most $25 for a glock mag. 10-18 bucks is a pretty big difference to me. On top of that p30 mags are harder to find.
Not sure if you have bought Glock mags in the last month, but Brownell's is 34.95 in stock, and Bravo Company is 32.95 out of stock, and Midway is 24.95 and out of stock. Again, even if there is all of a $10 a magazine difference, can't imagine that being a determining factor for as important a decision as this is.
My Glock 19's are plenty accurate to shoot steel to 100 yards -- most guys wish their M&P 9 was as accurate as a Glock 9. The G19 carries smaller, but the P30 with a hammer is attractive for IWB, especially appendix carry. Both the P30 and G19 are fine choices, and as said already, come down to your personal preference.
TwoSqueeze
05-10-11, 07:09
Sorry I had mentioned in a previous thread that I'm looking for a ccw and one that is accurate as I plan on shooting with it quite a bit at the range. Glock accuracy has always been a concern for me. Also by the time I replace the trigger and add a match barrel, I'd be right there at the same cost as the p30. The price of mags is pretty negligible for me. It's pretty easy to find a Glock to check out in person, but finding a p30 at the local gun shop is a little trickier.
There is absolutely no reason to replace the trigger and barrel in a Glock 19, unless you just like spending money.
Not sure if you have bought Glock mags in the last month, but Brownell's is 34.95 in stock, and Bravo Company is 32.95 out of stock, and Midway is 24.95 and out of stock. Again, even if there is all of a $10 a magazine difference, can't imagine that being a determining factor for as important a decision as this is.
My Glock 19's are plenty accurate to shoot steel to 100 yards -- most guys wish their M&P 9 was as accurate as a Glock 9. The G19 carries smaller, but the P30 with a hammer is attractive for IWB, especially appendix carry. Both the P30 and G19 are fine choices, and as said already, come down to your personal preference.
Maybe I just need practice because there is no way that I could consistently hit targets 100yds away. The gun shop employees had put it in my head that they're just not accurate to begin with.
Mr. Goodtimes
05-10-11, 07:24
I CCW a P30 and I love it. I'm a lefty and carry OWB at 8:00-8:30 ish and the gun conceals very well while still being a "real" sized handgun. Mags aren't too expensive and easy enough to find. There isn't a huge accessory market for the P30 but I don't really see where there needs to be either as the gun is pretty solid from the factory. My trigger turned out to be pretty nice after about 500 rounds.
Sorry I had mentioned in a previous thread that I'm looking for a ccw and one that is accurate as I plan on shooting with it quite a bit at the range. Glock accuracy has always been a concern for me. Also by the time I replace the trigger and add a match barrel, I'd be right there at the same cost as the p30. The price of mags is pretty negligible for me. It's pretty easy to find a Glock to check out in person, but finding a p30 at the local gun shop is a little trickier.
I love the P30, but I made the decision to go with Glock. There is nothing that the P30 does that is significantly better than the Glock. The Glock 19 is similar in size, and has a 15 round capacity. The manual of arms on the Glock is more simple. The cost of replacement for the Glock is much less. In fact if you were to join GSSF you could buy two Glock 19's or a Glock 19 and 26 for $850 plus tax.
Things like the simplistic manual of arms and the low grip to bore ratio are major pluses. Unless you are a first class shooter you will not be able to tell a difference in the accuracy between the two. The edge certainly goes to the HK, but with the Gen 4 Glocks the difference is negligible. There are fewer parts in the Glock, and those parts cost less. Parts are also more readily available for them. A Glock can be detail stripped in about five min. I would never dream of detail stripping an HK.
For CCW you need a hammer. A hammer is a tool. If you were to loose that hammer, you go buy another hammer. If, God forbid, you had to use your CCW to defend your life; you would likely loose it while the investigation was going on. During that time you need to have a backup to carry (if legal).
Again, I love HK's. I have a few of them. They shoot great. Get a Glock, and a backup for that Glock, the but the P30.
TC
TwoSqueeze
05-10-11, 07:29
Maybe I just need practice because there is no way that I could consistently hit targets 100yds away. The gun shop employees had put it in my head that they're just not accurate to begin with.
Gun Shop Commandos opinions are worth about as much as you pay for them. The G19 or the P30 will be more than good in the accuracy department right out of the box. Do yourself and keep whichever gun you get stock until you get your fundamentals down (ie. trigger control, sight alignment, etc.). Once you have your fundamentals down then you can experiment with slightly lighter trigger combination. There should never be a reason to change the barrel out in either gun unless you are wanting to move to a threaded barrel. I'm no gun shop commando but that is my 2 cents.
Thanks for all the great info from everyone. Part of the reason for considering the p30 is that I'm a lefty and I'd also carry it IWB. I really love how easy the Glock is to clean. Is the difference in hammer a big knock against them for being ccw?
Thanks for all the great info from everyone. Part of the reason for considering the p30 is that I'm a lefty and I'd also carry it IWB. I really love how easy the Glock is to clean. Is the difference in hammer a big knock against them for being ccw?
A bunch of people switched to P30 from striker-fired polymers because of hammer and additional safety margin when reholstering; many of those folks favor AIWB mode of carry. I personally wouldn't carry Glock AIWB, but have no problems carrying it in conventional IWB/OWB positions.
I actually do share your sentiment about Glock's accuracy. I personally can't shoot mine to my satisfaction beyond 25 yards, and I have shot tighter groups with my P30. This is approximately with 23:1 round count ratio in favor of Glock, and mine does have a match grade barrel. I am aware that tons of guys do very well with Glocks, stock or otherwise, at all conceivable distances, but this is not quite relevant to my personal experience with Glock.
TwoSqueeze
05-10-11, 08:06
I actually do share your sentiment about Glock's accuracy. I personally can't shoot mine to my satisfaction beyond 25 yards, and I have shot tighter groups with my P30. This is approximately with 23:1 round count ratio in favor of Glock, and mine does have a match grade barrel. I am aware that tons of guys do very well with Glocks, stock or otherwise, at all conceivable distances, but this is not quite relevant to my personal experience with Glock.
YVK brings up a good point. Both guns or more than mechanically accurate enough but you may shoot one more consistently than the other based on hand size / grip angle. This is were the P30 really shines with how customizable it is. I am just one of the lucky ones that has huge hands and can get a good grip on the 2x4 that is the Glock. If I had smaller hands or found the grip angle of the Glock not condusive to my shooting then maybe the 45%-50% price difference for the P30 would be worth it.
I have Glocks, M&P's, and HK's, and have carried all of them, a good deal. Glock 19 is the tightest carry package of them all, and is a wonderful choice. M&P 9 and HK P30 have slightly longer grips - almost G17 length grips, but a good holster and decent belt truly minimizes the deficit there, such that, for me, it's not a consideration. Lately, I've been carrying exclusively the HK P30S. While I admit that the P30 has grown on me, it's not because I consider it superior to these other excellent pistols, which it may or may not be. I just like to know what my holster customers are experiencing. It's true what was said about the abrasive grip on the P30. It's quite abrasive, but, IMO, no more than a minor annoyance, and I almost always wear undershirts anyway, making it a non-concern. With a proper holster managing the position of the grip, the shape of the slide makes the P30 a natural for comfortable IWB carry. You'll love the P30 at the range, too. The triggers on my V3 DA/SA and V1 LEM examples are very nice, and there's no doubt HK did a great job on the grip shape, which is adaptable to user preference, via the interchangeable back straps and side panels.
I still think I might like the M&P 9 just a tad more (I waffle back and forth on that), but I do highly recommend the HK P30. If you like the pistol, go buy one, with confidence.
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g111/Trisagion/K-25Images/NewK-25HKP30S_web_01.jpg
Well I just happen to find a mint condition used p30 with nights at a local shop by my office for $800....Sold!
Nephrology
05-10-11, 10:48
The gun shop employees had put it in my head that they're just not accurate to begin with.
That is your problem. Don't listen to people that work at gun shops, they are usually only slightly more intelligent than your average sliding glass door.
P30 can be DA/SA with no thumb safety, meaning a DA first shot, LEM, or /S with a thumb safety -- so you better figure out which version you want as, unlike the HK 45 series, they can't be easily converted/
A bunch of people switched to P30 from striker-fired polymers because of hammer and additional safety margin when reholstering; many of those folks favor AIWB mode of carry. I personally wouldn't carry Glock AIWB, but have no problems carrying it in conventional IWB/OWB positions.
I actually do share your sentiment about Glock's accuracy. I personally can't shoot mine to my satisfaction beyond 25 yards, and I have shot tighter groups with my P30. This is approximately with 23:1 round count ratio in favor of Glock, and mine does have a match grade barrel. I am aware that tons of guys do very well with Glocks, stock or otherwise, at all conceivable distances, but this is not quite relevant to my personal experience with Glock.
Agree with all. Glock's are not known for their accuracy (when compared to an HK pistol).
C4
I just bought six of them for $23 a piece in April. Honestly the biggest difference in the guns is the way they fit in your hand and their trigger systems. If either would do then why not go for the one that you can readily find any accessory for and costs less?
The only thing the HK has over the glock is better grip ergonomics. Even with those it sits higher in the hand. Some also have to change their grip due to the fact that they will ride the large slide stop.
I am not a glock fan, I have to use one for work, but in this case I have a hard time shelling out the extra dough for an HK when you don't really get anything more. The main reason to go with the HK would be if you need a traditional DA/SA gun or want the extra take up of the LEM for a constant action trigger pull.
Not sure if you have bought Glock mags in the last month, but Brownell's is 34.95 in stock, and Bravo Company is 32.95 out of stock, and Midway is 24.95 and out of stock. Again, even if there is all of a $10 a magazine difference, can't imagine that being a determining factor for as important a decision as this is.
My Glock 19's are plenty accurate to shoot steel to 100 yards -- most guys wish their M&P 9 was as accurate as a Glock 9. The G19 carries smaller, but the P30 with a hammer is attractive for IWB, especially appendix carry. Both the P30 and G19 are fine choices, and as said already, come down to your personal preference.
To the OP, let me give you one more thing to think about. It is called the Walther PPQ.
For me, the PPQ looks like a Glock G19 and a HK P30 had sex. You get the Glock "like" trigger, 4" Slide, ambi controls and accuracy of the P30.
The trigger is also the NICEST of ANY factory trigger I have tried.
Priced below the P30 and above the Glock 19, it is a good fit I think and might turn into the best all around option (time will tell).
C4
I did a long review a few months back:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=73118
The long and the short of it is:
You're looking at a $200 price premium or so for a P30.
The P30's grip is about 1/2" longer than the G19, but both pistols have the same magazine capacity. A longer grip makes a gun harder to conceal.
I consider the P30's grip more ergonomic.
I like the P30's optional external safety and hammer.
It is much, much easier to find good holster options for the G19.
G19 has a slightly longer barrel (4" vs. 3.86").
I prefer the P30's stock trigger over the G19's stock trigger.
The magazine cost is a non-issue. Unlike most HK guns, P30 magazines can be found (if you search hard enough) for $30-33. Glock magazines are about $25 from 44mag.com. It's $8/magazine difference. Not that great of a difference if you factor in how much ammo you will be shooting through the gun.
In the end, run some ammo through both and see what you like. I was sufficiently impressed with the P30 to purchase one as a carry pistol, but my G19 still sees use.
I did a long review a few months back:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=73118
The long and the short of it is:
You're looking at a $200 price premium or so for a P30.
The P30's grip is about 1/2" longer than the G19, but both pistols have the same magazine capacity. A longer grip makes a gun harder to conceal.
I consider the P30's grip more ergonomic.
I like the P30's optional external safety and hammer.
It is much, much easier to find good holster options for the G19.
G19 has a slightly longer barrel (4" vs. 3.86").
I prefer the P30's stock trigger over the G19's stock trigger.
The magazine cost is a non-issue. Unlike most HK guns, P30 magazines can be found (if you search hard enough) for $30-33. Glock magazines are about $25 from 44mag.com. It's $8/magazine difference. Not that great of a difference if you factor in how much ammo you will be shooting through the gun.
In the end, run some ammo through both and see what you like. I was sufficiently impressed with the P30 to purchase one as a carry pistol, but my G19 still sees use.
+1 I went with the P2000 in 40 but if 9mm is your choice the P30 is the way to go. Just make sure you order with Night Sights from the get go if you want them in the future. I got mine with Meprolights.
I saw the Walther and I liked it. It reminded me of the XD actually. Well it's all moot now as I picked up a mint condition used P30L. I know it's an L, but the barrel length wasn't what I perceived as an issue with its size - it was the grip. It came with night sights as well all for $800 and it looks like it was never fired - and that's not even an exaggeration. I'll just have to get the right holster for it and I'll be good to go.
Nephrology
05-10-11, 13:06
Agree with all. Glock's are not known for their accuracy (when compared to an HK pistol).
C4
There are several youtube videos by a guy named Hickock45 of him hitting targets out to 150 yards with a Glock 26.
There are several youtube videos by a guy named Hickock45 of him hitting targets out to 150 yards with a Glock 26.
And I can do that same with my M&P. ;)
When we talk about a firearms reliability or accuracy, we talk as a general rule, not exceptions to the rule.
For instance, I have seen several GEN 3 Glock 19's and 17's malfunction/break. Is this the norm? No. It is the exception.
C4
I saw the Walther and I liked it. It reminded me of the XD actually. Well it's all moot now as I picked up a mint condition used P30L. I know it's an L, but the barrel length wasn't what I perceived as an issue with its size - it was the grip. It came with night sights as well all for $800 and it looks like it was never fired - and that's not even an exaggeration. I'll just have to get the right holster for it and I'll be good to go.
HK's idea of a "long slide" is about like my idea of a compact. That "long slide" P30 is just a tad longer than a Colt Commander, for instance. It will be no problem to conceal that little darlin.'
Pistol Shooter
05-10-11, 13:59
I saw the Walther and I liked it. It reminded me of the XD actually. Well it's all moot now as I picked up a mint condition used P30L. I know it's an L, but the barrel length wasn't what I perceived as an issue with its size - it was the grip. It came with night sights as well all for $800 and it looks like it was never fired - and that's not even an exaggeration. I'll just have to get the right holster for it and I'll be good to go.
Congratulations. :)
The P30 L is a very fine handgun by any measure. If you like yours as much as I do mine, you'll be very pleased.
I may be an exception, but I don't like using steel at long range to assess pistol's accuracy. Most of steel targets are 18x24 and larger, and I rarely see them painted to assess an impact point. Often times there are multiple shooters, so you don't know where your bullet hit. Hitting a human torso steel at 100 could, depending where your hits go, be equivalent to 4 inch group at 25 - which is nothing to write home about.
Have a glock 19,26,34 have all been replaced with hk's, still own the glocks always will!
I carry a p30, p2000sk , 45c. My p30 in MY hands is more accurate then my 34 but that's me. Love them all and really enjoy shooting the hk's and mag changes are such a breeze.
To the OP, let me give you one more thing to think about. It is called the Walther PPQ.
For me, the PPQ looks like a Glock G19 and a HK P30 had sex. You get the Glock "like" trigger, 4" Slide, ambi controls and accuracy of the P30.
Not to derail the conversation (which is great - I'm thinking of *adding* a P30 for CCW) But have these gotten out to retailers yet? I haven't seen anything about them in months! I'm very curious about the PPQ.
bob
Not to derail the conversation (which is great - I'm thinking of *adding* a P30 for CCW) But have these gotten out to retailers yet? I haven't seen anything about them in months! I'm very curious about the PPQ.
bob
Slowly they are getting out there.
C4
Here she is. I'm going to try to get to the range to shoot her for the first time tomorrow. One problem is that the manual was missing. I'm sure I can find one online somewhere but it would have been nice to have. Before taking her apart is there anything I should know or be aware of?
This is really going to be one fine week. Tomorrow my USC / UMP conversion will be delivered and we'll be taking these two girls along with my AR shooting all weekend with my best friend growing up who's coming to visit. Come Sunday when I have to clean everything I probably won't be so happy :sarcastic:
http://imageshack.us/m/268/1577/002ykx.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/268/002ykx.jpg/) Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
Hogsgunwild
05-11-11, 07:40
A bunch of people switched to P30 from striker-fired polymers because of hammer and additional safety margin when reholstering; many of those folks favor AIWB mode of carry. I personally wouldn't carry Glock AIWB, but have no problems carrying it in conventional IWB/OWB positions.
I actually do share your sentiment about Glock's accuracy. I personally can't shoot mine to my satisfaction beyond 25 yards, and I have shot tighter groups with my P30. This is approximately with 23:1 round count ratio in favor of Glock, and mine does have a match grade barrel. I am aware that tons of guys do very well with Glocks, stock or otherwise, at all conceivable distances, but this is not quite relevant to my personal experience with Glock.
+1. My experience as well.
I was sold on the P30 until shooting the P2000. You might try one out as I believe the P2000 conceals easier and the grip is less apt to chafe you. I am not referring to the smaller P2000SK, just the regular P2000.
I had more time than expected now so after reading this thread more thoroughly I see that you purchased the P30. Congrats, you will love it! Now you can start looking at your next purchase (P2000?) as HKs seem to be very addictive.
Thanks. My USC/UMP conversion just showed up today and my Les Baer is about a month away from being ready so I think I'm good for a little while. Now that I've carried the P30 for just a couple of days I see what you mean. HKs truly are a cut above the competition. I remember reading that blog the made it's way around the web "HK hates you because you suck" (or something to that effect) and thinking wow, what a snobby manufacturer. But when you actually get your hands on one you see why they're so expensive. If you buy something else and start modifying triggers and adding match barrels, you would've ended up ahead if you just bought the HK in both cost and quality. You really get what you pay for.
Now I just need to figure out how to take this pistol apart. The one bad thing with it being used was that it didn't come with a book. It's funny because I'm convinced it was never even fired.
I figured it out....piece of cake.
Hogsgunwild
05-11-11, 21:38
After dumping megabucks into 1911s, and still loving them even after all of my bad experiences / luck with various brands, I think H&K is the best deal on the planet. Their customer service is 180 degrees opposite and better than what it once was so when people say how over priced they are I just laugh and think "good, don't buy them, there will be more available for me"...
Hogsgunwild
05-11-11, 21:44
The UMP has always intrigued me. Don't suppose you'd like to start a thread to share pictures and info on that bad boy would you?
Now I just need to figure out how to take this pistol apart. The one bad thing with it being used was that it didn't come with a book. It's funny because I'm convinced it was never even fired.
Online manual http://www.hk-usa.com/-images/shared/PSeries_Ops_Manual_060809.pdf
I have been a GLOCK owner/shooter/ccw'r for many years now. I suppose you could say decades. Last year on a whim, with a handful of bonus money, splurged on a P30L. Well, I had heard all the talk about HKs, but was skeptical that they could be THAT much better than a GLOCK. Much to my surprise and delight I can quite easily see where the money goes. What a wonderful piece of machinery. It is also quite attractive. But even more important, one heck of a great shooter. Within a few weeks I also purchased a P2000 and traded one GLOCK for a USP.
Now, having said that, GLOCK remains my choice for ccw (G23). This is based on my comfort level with the ease of use and shootability. For this purpose, I really don't care if I can hit plates at 150 yards, of what kind groups I get at 25 yards. What I do care about is being able to hit center of mass at about 20 feet or less. I also care that I can draw, point and shoot quickly in a high stress situation. My G23 fits this use the best in my eyes.
IMO, the "best" ccw is what is best for YOU. Finding the right weapon, caliber and carry option is a case of trail and error for each person to find their own "best."
Whatever you do........ don't shoot a P7.......... you will regret it on some level afterwards.
My regret is that I can't afford a 2nd M13 to allow me to carry mine more.
Whatever you do........ don't shoot a P7.......... you will regret it on some level afterwards.
I agree.
I regret that I wasted $600 and a box of ammo on one.
The P2000, P2000Sk and P30 on the other hand... no regrets.
I used to own a Glock 19 that I carried in the Border Patrol. It was a gen. 1 pistol. Later, my agency (ICE) issued us Glock 19 pistols to carry. As soon as I retired, I bought my first HK, a P2000SK for concealed carry. That lead to a P30 and me getting rid of my Glock. I then bought the HK45CT 45ACP pistol and that's my EDC. I used to think Glock's were the greatest until I shot an HK. Some folks bad mouth HK's because of what they cost. I look at it like why should I drive a Yugo when I can drive a BMW. YMMV
That is your problem. Don't listen to people that work at gun shops, they are usually only slightly more intelligent than your average sliding glass door.
That is sig line stuff there
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