Elcan Specter DR.....should I? [Archive]

OUTLAW-ONE

05-11-11, 13:21

C4IGrant

05-11-11, 14:11

I'm thinking about buying a Elcan Specter DR either the black civilian model or the tan SOCOM version (I am a LEO so I can get an SOF over run for the same price as the black civilian version). The LEO price is the same for both tan or black, $1898! Does anyone own or has used one? Is the tan SOF the same as the black civilian one in terms of features & function, durability etc? I've read that the new Gen's have fixed the POA/POI issue when switching from 1x-4x, is that true? I'm looking for some advise from users before I drop a shit ton of money on this optic. Thanks in advance.

I used one years ago. The 1X just flat out SUCK's and since that is the one you will use the most (especially in LE work), it is a deal killer.

You are better off getting a TA33 compact ACOG and then mounting either an RMR or Aimpoint Mirco on an offset mount than going with the Elcan IMHO.

C4

Ratfink

05-11-11, 15:37

i had one mounted on a m14 on my last deployment it works well at night with nv gear and a laser des but unless your gonna have that kinda gear i wouldnt bother and i didnt care for it much i like having a us optics sn3 more for solo work

JSantoro

05-11-11, 16:31

From a mechanical standpoint, I think that they've mitigated the POI shift from 1-4x, but not improved it in any substantive way. In terms of the POI shift inherent to the device, there's certainly better 1-4x variables available, especially for less $$$.

To be forthright, a lot of that shift stemmed from folks not doing a 100m zero while set to 4x THEN dumping to 1x and seeing what happens at 50m and in; they'd stay on 1x and set whatever zero they'd ginned up for themselves, so the worst instances of the POI shift was due to procedural errors on the part of know-it-alls that feel that RTFM is for plebeians. That said, it has a lot of slop in it compared to a lot of other offerings, while they are better than they were a couple of years back.

ARMS mount = not so much SUX, as much as it is that those bloody things vary wildly enough from appalling to mediocre that I wouldn't be willing to take the gamble. Pretty certainly a contributing factor the the worst instances of POI shift that DIDN'T have anything to do with procedural errors.

Weight, taken as a stand-alone factor SUX.

Taken as an indicator of how robustly over-engineered the thing is, the weight may be worth the level of durability it has. You could take one of those things, attach it to a chain, then attach THAT to a stick and use it as a morningstar, if you really felt like it. It's about the toughest optic I've ever run across.

bp7178

05-11-11, 21:06

In terms of the POI shift inherent to the device, there's certainly better 1-4x variables available

I've been looking at them, the Specter DR. Elcan lists the "coaxial alignment" at 1.5 MOA, which I take to mean the shift between 1 and 4 power.

I've never seen this spec listed on any other optic, so i'd be intrested to know if any other optics actually get this kind of shift. Obviously, and FFP scopes wouldn't, but I suspect some of the SFP scopes would.

Its an intresting optic...with all that's out there on them, I have a hard time coughing up $1800-1900 for one.

Fitzghan

05-11-11, 22:59

If you really want one and you are LE you can get one brand spankin new here http://dsgarms.com/ProductInfo/ATIDFOV14-C1.aspx for 1650. You have to sign up for an acount which is a simple email away.

Didn't see it in FDE but the 248 bucks you would save can buy a lot of Krylon paint!

Alaskapopo

05-11-11, 23:30

I'm thinking about buying a Elcan Specter DR either the black civilian model or the tan SOCOM version (I am a LEO so I can get an SOF over run for the same price as the black civilian version). The LEO price is the same for both tan or black, $1898! Does anyone own or has used one? Is the tan SOF the same as the black civilian one in terms of features & function, durability etc? I've read that the new Gen's have fixed the POA/POI issue when switching from 1x-4x, is that true? I'm looking for some advise from users before I drop a shit ton of money on this optic. Thanks in advance.

A friend of mine has one and it has worked well for him to date. The Arms mounts do suck but in his case have not failed. Personally for that much cash as a LEO you can get a Swarovski Z6i 1-6x scope which I prefer.
pat

OUTLAW-ONE

05-12-11, 04:06

Thanks guys for all the input. I'm just trying to do some homework before I make a really expensive mistake. One of the reasons I'm even considering this optic is because of it's adoption by USSOCOM. With the amount of rounds they fire, abuse it takes and the fact it beat the competition(although I can't find any info about the other optics that the DR beat out to win the contract). The other reason is the ability to switch from 1x-4x, though I'm still not sold on the POI when switching. I also could not find any info from SOF about how they like the optic. I'm running a T-1 on both of my AR's and my other option is the Aimpoint magnifier with the LaRue mount, but want to check out other optics out there. I've used ACOG's in the past but even with a dot piggybacked for CQB, I can't get a proper check to be really effective.

So here I am looking into the Specter DR. Is the tan SOCOM version offer something that the black one doesn't? If I buy the DR would I zero the optic at 100 yards on 4x then mount a doctor on top and zero for CQB? If the DR is a "dual role optic", why the need to mount a doctor red dot on top? Jeez this is one complex optic to consider purchasing....

As for the A.R.M.S. mount, I've heard some bad stories about them failing or not returning to zero when removed & having to get a new dope when putting it back on, but I myself never had a problem. I was issued the SU-231/PEQ (Model 553), and never found that to be true.

Well if I do decide to blow the money on one it will be mounted on my new build in progress.....
http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j337/ert185/624f9587.jpg

The upper I have in mind will be a MUR1 upper with BCM CHF barrel, KAC URXIII, KAC BUIS and either the AAC blackout SPR or Surefire MB556K.

Failure2Stop

05-12-11, 08:27

It has a few fans in SOF, but not as many as other options.

Magic_Salad0892

05-12-11, 12:02

Fitzghan

05-12-11, 12:04

I think the Aimpoint 3x in the Larue Mount is a great option. You don't have to adjust your zero and you can mount it up on several different weapons with different optics. If you don't need it just take it off and the extra weight comes off with it. Very versatile and cost effective. You don't have to change your cheek weld like with an ACOG/RDS combo and you maintain the bullet proof durability of the Aimpoint and speed of a true RDS.

I originally had one behind a T-1 but you may experience some issues. The dot on the T-1 is large and under magnification you will see it looks like a figure 8 or even a clover depending on your individual optic. You can turn the T-1 mount backwards to get it as close to the magnifyer as possible but I still couldn't get used to it. I run mine primarily behind Eotechs and love it. It also works well behind my Comp M4 with the 2 MOA dot. I like the Eotech but that is a personal preference.

mkmckinley

05-12-11, 12:54

Just because the desk jockeys at SOCOM decide to procure something doesn't mean it's a great option. There are a lot of people who don't knpw what they're doing and old boy deals etc. I have first hand experience with the USASOC issued SpectreDR/Docter combo. It's not ideal. Thr DR is expensive and stupid heavy for what it does. There is often a major POI shift between mags. The BDC only works if you're using green tip and a 14.5" bbl. The add on Docter itself is fine but you need a wierd cheek weld to use it. For the price you could get an ACOG and offset T-1 and have a better and lighter setup. A RDS with a magnifier is also good but you lose the BDC. Personally I dont even use the issued SpectreDR. Straight up CompM4 has worked for me just fine.

grunz

05-12-11, 17:40

I got a new one (Gray, Gen III) for $1400 so I took a chance on it and has worked OK for me in the last 2 years. I'm a civilian and I use it for training, 3 gun and its mounted on my go-to gun.

GOOD:
Glass is good.
Battery life is good on red dot - I keep it on all the time and change the battery on my birthday.
BDC reticule works well for me so far - zeroed at 100 yards on 4X power.
Tough build.
Haven't seen big POI shift 1X to 4X.

BAD:
I don't trust the ARMS mount and have shimmed it.
Heavy at 24ozs.
Expensive.

Would I buy one at list? Maybe not, but so far it has worked OK for me and I'm happy with it.

I think the SOF model might have a slightly different reticule design.

BTW I don't see any point for having the Docter Optic on top for CQB. The red dot on 1X on The SpecterDR is just fine up close and I didn't find it markedly different than the dot on my Aimpoint CompM4. The SpecterDR also has the etched reticule there in case the red dot dies for some reason.

bp7178

05-12-11, 18:48

BTW I don't see any point for having the Docter Optic on top for CQB.

If you ever tried to shoulder a rifle with a gas mask I think you'd think different. ;)

SteveL

05-12-11, 19:49

Nice build.

What is that light thing behind your BUIS? I thought it was a PEQ variant of some sort, but it looks like it says SUREFIRE on it.

What is that?

Oh, I you really want a 1-4X sight for that price? Go Nightforce with Knight's 30mm one piece mount. I'd rather have that than an Elcan.

Not directed at me and not my rifle, but I believe it's a Surefire HL1 helmet light.

http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main.pl

If I'm wrong hopefully someone will set us straight.

OUTLAW-ONE

05-12-11, 20:06

You are correct. It is a Surefire helmet light mounted on the Tango Down rail mount. I just got it and have been very happy with it mounted on my MK18 MOD1. The LED's are effective to say 10-15 feet, perfect searching houses & CQB environments without using too much light that may give up your location to a bad guy laying in wait. I also have a tan Surefire mini scout light used as my primary light or at further distances. It looks cool too if you can't afford or really need a PEQ-15.

SteveL

05-12-11, 20:49

Thanks for clearing that up. The first time I ever saw one was at a local shop a few days ago. I was chatting with the salesman when he glanced down into the case and said something along the lines of "WTH is that?" Neither one of us knew what it was so I had to search the Surefire site when I got home to find out.

ETA: I was curious how you had it mounted to your rifle's rail so thanks for specifying.

znztivguy

05-18-11, 18:26

I have bought and own most of the scopes mentioned here. Now in my case I "had" before lasik really bad eyes. The Field of view for a Elcan Is GINORMOUS compared to that of say Acog or even Magnified Aimpoint. The Clarity of Glass is just kick butt. Like HD vs Non HD. 720 pix. vs. 1040. Only thing close is the 4x eotech magnifier or a designated Hunting scope (leupold,nightforce etc.etc.). The 2nd gen I use keeps 0 fine after 800 plus rounds of shooting PMC and 1 tactical class. How much recoil and movement do you thing you are actually going to get with the 5.56 round? The non holding zero thing I think is a fluke or perpetuated internet myth. Only factor is PRICE. All things being equal (no price) it is a superior product. I still like like my ACOG and MY aimpoint with MAG, eotech with MAG, but it comes down to what situation will you think you are going to be using it in. Have no answer for that yet...lol...

jason805

05-05-13, 19:00

I used one years ago. The 1X just flat out SUCK's and since that is the one you will use the most (especially in LE work), it is a deal killer.

You are better off getting a TA33 compact ACOG and then mounting either an RMR or Aimpoint Mirco on an offset mount than going with the Elcan IMHO.

C4

The ACOG with mounted RDS is TERRIBLE, not only does the optic hit you in the face if you don't pay attention you have to hold your head up above the cheek rest!! (and that will make you pay less attention to aiming) It's the worst idea and just a scam. The new 1-6's are future of optics.

I'd go with a 1-4 or 1-6.

C4IGrant

05-05-13, 19:23

The ACOG with mounted RDS is TERRIBLE, not only does the optic hit you in the face if you don't pay attention you have to hold your head up above the cheek rest!! (and that will make you pay less attention to aiming) It's the worst idea and just a scam. The new 1-6's are future of optics.

I'd go with a 1-4 or 1-6.

Did you notice that date on this thread????

Yes, a RDS mounted on top of an ACOG is a bad idea (which is why I recommended against it all the way back in 2011)!

C4

4DAIVI PAI2K5

05-05-13, 19:29

holy random 2 year thread bump batman

OMEGA9000

08-19-13, 02:32

How would a .308 elcan specterdr 1-4x do on a 5.56 rifle? Would the would the POA/POI only be different in longer ranges or in the 0-300m as well?

CageFighter

08-19-13, 07:34

i have a tan 1-4x on my scar17 and love it. i think this optic was made for the scar platform, 16 or 17s!

halmbarte

08-19-13, 09:15

i have a tan 1-4x on my scar17 and love it. i think this optic was made for the scar platform, 16 or 17s!

I tried the Elcan on my SCAR and didn't really like it. Made the SCAR feel top heavy and 'dead'.

I'm running the Elcan on my FS2000 now. For some reason I don't notice the weight and it doesn't change the CG, so the balance is still good.

H

Falsecrack

08-22-13, 00:39

I have the 1.5-6X Elcan on my Scar17s, and I absolutely love it.

TxPiKapp

10-27-13, 00:31

I have the 1.5-6X Elcan on my Scar17s, and I absolutely love it.

I would like to have the same setup, but they dont make the 1.5-6x in FDE, so i will have to settle for the 1-4x..

Falsecrack

10-27-13, 03:28

I would like to have the same setup, but they dont make the 1.5-6x in FDE, so i will have to settle for the 1-4x..

Or you could send it off to Phantom finishing, or some other reputable cerakoting company and have it painted FDE. This was my original intention, but after a while I liked how it looked on my Scar in black. I may still have it painted some day, but for now, I have other projects taking precedent.

JohnnyC

10-27-13, 15:25

I want one of the FDE ones with the nice reticle just for gits and shins.

I would like for them to be cheaper though, and available. I don't want to buy one second hand.

ZDriver96

10-27-13, 20:13

So did the OP ever get an Elcan Specterdr? I'm curious because I'm in the market for one. Seems like you either love it or hate it. But sux for most of us because very few if any local vendors have Elcan's on the shevles to look at. Only way to find out if u like it is after you buy it.

PatrioticDisorder

10-31-13, 09:33

I have the 1.5-6X Elcan on my Scar17s, and I absolutely love it.

How quick is 1.5x? Easy to shoot both eyes open with?

Falsecrack

10-31-13, 12:29

How quick is 1.5x? Easy to shoot both eyes open with?

This is the million dollar question and the same one I asked over, and over while I was contemplating between the 1-4 and the 1.5-6. When I posed the question, I kept hearing that the speed of the 1.5 would be largely dependent on your eyes. I'll admit that I didn't like hearing that answer. However, now after owning one for some time, I find that to be true. Truth is, I can't really ascertain a true speed difference between the Elcan on my Scar, and the T1 on my ECC. For the record, I'm far sighted.

I want to add, that aside from the Elcan, I also use a USO SN 3 3.2-17, and an S&B PM II 5-25, and the glass on the Elcan is top notch and very underrated.

In any event, I wish you luck on your search. There's nothing quite like the (nervous) feeling you get when contemplating the purchase of $2000 + optics. =)

PatrioticDisorder

10-31-13, 14:59

This is the million dollar question and the same one I asked over, and over while I was contemplating between the 1-4 and the 1.5-6. When I posed the question, I kept hearing that the speed of the 1.5 would be largely dependent on your eyes. I'll admit that I didn't like hearing that answer. However, now after owning one for some time, I find that to be true. Truth is, I can't really ascertain a true speed difference between the Elcan on my Scar, and the T1 on my ECC. For the record, I'm far sighted.

I want to add, that aside from the Elcan, I also use a USO SN 3 3.2-17, and an S&B PM II 5-25, and the glass on the Elcan is top notch and very underrated.

In any event, I wish you luck on your search. There's nothing quite like the (nervous) feeling you get when contemplating the purchase of $2000 + optics. =)

Kinda like the way that sounds and I couldn't agree more about the nervous feelings about purchasing a major optic (or weapon).