View Full Version : 147 gr. 9mm
NewLife2626
05-11-11, 13:50
I hear on other forums that you shoudnt use 147 gr. bullets in a 9mm and am wodring why not? Also how does 147 gr. (specificly speer gold dot) work on auto glass and other barriers.
More than a few recommended 147s on the list: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887
If I had to guess at the reason for the 147 chagrin, I'd wager it is based on an antiquated article which demonizes the 147 as either weak, inadequate, or both. I cannot comment on the accuracy of that data at the time of the article's writing, but it is certainly is not applicable to modern offerings in that weight.
I don't ever feel inadequate with 147gr HST.
What you've heard will be discredited by what you read here. Enjoy the wealth of info the forum has to offer. Live long and prosper.
More than a few recommended 147s on the list: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887
If I had to guess at the reason for the 147 chagrin, I'd wager it is based on an antiquated article which demonizes the 147 as either weak, inadequate, or both. I cannot comment on the accuracy of that data at the time of the article's writing, but it is certainly is not applicable to modern offerings in that weight.
The crap science of ballistic pressure wave and energy dump theories are the culprits. Both demand higher muzzle energy, and BPW gives the load a higher rating with less shallow penetration. Glock Talk is full of BPW morons, if that is the forum in question.
Like ALL 9mm loads, the ones that do well are the ones that penetrate deeply, and mushroom robustly. Modern 147gr bullet designs do this well. 1970 to early 1990s 147gr loads didn't do this so well. The top ammo players now days are Federal, Speer, and Winchester, and they design their loads according to the standardized FBI testing protocols which made ammunition MUCH more effective that previous generation stuff. Now, Federal, Winchester, and Speer 147gr loads are probably the best overall 9mm loads available.
Can't comment personally on the 147 grn terminal effect.
Given the RIGHT bullet, (a modern expanding example like the HST), the more recent reports seem quite favorable.
I CAN comment on how MOST people percieve the sub-sonic 147 grn load as far a "controllability" and accuracy at speed.
All recent surveys of combat pistol competition shooters using 9mm (in uncompensated guns) indicate that the 147 is the MOST favored round. The 147 gr is NOT the least expensive ammo to buy or to reload. Cost is not the driving factor.
"Group size" is not relavent as the guns used will generally group as well with 115 grn as they will with 147 grn ammo.
Furthermore, 147 grn ammo must be loaded to exceed 850 FPS. And given all the variables such as chronograph differences, very very few would choose to shoot 147 grn ammo much below an actual 900 FPS.
The reason subsonic 9mm 147 grn ammo is the top choice in combat pistol competition is: faster accurate follow-up shots (i.e. controllability) - this ammo is sometimes referred to as "soft shooting" and I believe that this perception leads to the FALSE perception that the 147 grn load is somehow less effective terminally.
As far as my personal experience, I loaded the 147 grn 9mm JHP ammo that was used to take 2nd place at the 2005 Winter Nationals in IDPA. My load is ballistically very similar to the Atlanta Arms 147grn 9mm JHP competition load.
Beat Trash
05-11-11, 18:08
Many Law Enforcement Agencies use a 147 gr JHP as an issued duty load, mine included. If you do your gob as it relates to shot placement, the round will do what it's supposed to do.
Don't believe everything you read in the internet.
Glock17JHP
05-12-11, 13:27
I hear on other forums that you shoudnt use 147 gr. bullets in a 9mm and am wodring why not? Also how does 147 gr. (specificly speer gold dot) work on auto glass and other barriers.
Short answer... the other forums don't have the experts you will find here, so they may not know of what they speak.
The 147 grain Speer Gold Dot 9mm GDHP does very well against al barriers, including auto glass.
As others have already said, read any of the 'Stickys' at the top of the first page that have 'Pistol' in the title, but especially read this one...
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887
The 147 grain Speer Gold Dot 9mm GDHP does very well against al barriers, including auto glass.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887
While I've never shot anyone with a Gold Dot, I can shed some light on that particular bullet:
All Gold Dot pistol bullets are ELECTROPLATED.
For an illustration of this fact, look around p. 90 of the Speer reloading manual showing the manufacturing process for the Speer Gold Dot handgun bullet.
You will NOT find any reference to the word "electroplated" in any Speer printed material. This is because Speer wants to avoid, at all cost, any association with other electoplated reloading bullets - some of which are quite cheap and not of the same high quality as the Speer bullet.
So - should one avoid the Gold Dot? To the contrary, electroplating creates a great bullet with a proven record - at least when produced to the quality of the Gold Dot.
-"bonding" is not an issue; I've seen plated bullets smashed flat as a pancake against steel targets and they STILL had plating material clinging to the lead core
-accuracy is well known in Gold Dots
-the thin, pure-copper plating is never an impediment to expansion.
Overall, the 147 grn Gold dot is a very good defensive bullet choice IMHO.
DeusExMachina
05-12-11, 16:19
I've done lots of reading, and especially in carry pistols 147gr performs best. Light, fast loads don't have enough barrel to burn all the powder.
Looking at ballistics tests (especially in RA9T, which I carry) the 147gr expands the best and penetrates the deepest in gelatin.
Glock17JHP
05-13-11, 13:20
I've done lots of reading, and especially in carry pistols 147gr performs best. Light, fast loads don't have enough barrel to burn all the powder.
Looking at ballistics tests (especially in RA9T, which I carry) the 147gr expands the best and penetrates the deepest in gelatin.
In 9mm 147 grain ammunition I prefer the Winchester Ranger RA9T, also... after that I would choose the Federal HST, then the Gold Dot. But, I would feel well-ammoed (is that a word?) with any of those 3 loads.
From the heavy clothing ballistic data (https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Aq0MCBlaBZw_dHh5bmhhWlVvWHpWQVFkYS1xemthbWc&hl=en&authkey=CO23nOEB) I've seen, 147g performs very well.
Jake
Glock17JHP
05-13-11, 20:29
I have some Winchester data I could add/give you, snakyjake...
PM me, OK?
While I prefer the 124gr +P in the Gold Dot, I would have no issues at all with being issued the 147gr version.
One agency that I know issues the 147gr GD is the Indiana State Police. In conversation with their rangemaster I know that one of the reasons they chose this load was due to performance through glass, obviously due to the number of car stops they make.
A lot of years have gone under the bridge, the 9mm was known as the 9mm Luger/9X19, the European cartridge.
And the major means of wounding has remained the same, shots that damage significantly the Central Nervous System, (CNS) cause death, and the second method, bullets that cut and cause significant blood loss, bleeding out! Takes longer, to cause massive blood loss, major organ damage, or major artery's cut through, same result.
No big new news, but your ability to cause more damage, with pistol bullets, is to put more of them into the body.
The more violent the recoil, the less extra rounds you can put into this area, in any given time.
I have now changed from the WW 127g +P+ Ranger, to the Ranger T in 147g, none +P, because my BoM= Bullets on Meat, will be significanty enhanced. Shot a few of each, swapped back and forth, the change over is complete. Simple test, accuracy is superb.
Let the experts tell me which is best, shoot a trial, bullet on bullet at 7m, game over.
ActiveShooter
05-24-11, 08:56
I am also carrying Ranger T's in the 147Gr. flavor. Through the research I did amongst many viable options, these were the most effective in testing.
I am also carrying Ranger T's in the 147Gr. flavor. Through the research I did amongst many viable options, these were the most effective in testing.
Locked and loaded!! Well slide closed at least! TruGlow sights, extended slide release, base plug, 4 lb trigger. Love my Glock 19, all of them!
Bullet on bullet at 7 yds.
Stay Safe.
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