Total Noob here

[whitetiger7654]

Hey guys. I have guns but I'm totally new to the AR platform. I have shot one once and I'd like to buy one. I don't know what to look for or anything about the AR yet. I only know the history behind it.

So with that in mind. What brand etc. Should I be looking at? The gun will be for range only and 3 gun competition. It must be a whole gun not uppers and lowers because I don't feel comfortable building my own the first time. I'm trying to stay in the $1,000 range for now. Unless it's really worth it to spend the extra money up front.

Thanks for the help.

[K.L. Davis]

Welcome...

I am sure you know your question is about like asking what kind of vehicle to buy... even once you figure out you need a truck, then you have that Ford, Dodge, Chevy, Import thing to work out.

Any of the common name companies make good stuff... do not fear putting a lower and upper together though -- if you can not do that, you will not be able to clean the thing properly (it is very, very easy).

I suggest hanging out a little, hit up some of the dealers here and get some advice from people that are using the rifle for what you want to -- I know I will miss some names, but there is bigbore, gotm4 and Bravo Company that all compete... and many others (sorry to those I did not mention).

The great thing about the AR is that you can start with a good lower and upper, and then make it into whatever you want -- just take some time to pick the brains of folks here, you've got a rather good collection of knowledge on tap.

[whitetiger7654]

Yes I have learned there are tons of companies out there. Which is the major problem for me. I don't know where to start. I'm sure I could put one together if I had or wanted to. But I'd rather not unless there is a really good reason to.

[Thors ~ Hammer]

Yes I have learned there are tons of companies out there. Which is the major problem for me. I don't know where to start. I'm sure I could put one together if I had or wanted to. But I'd rather not unless there is a really good reason to.

No problem. I would look at the RRA or even the new S&W line. Both are good products. Bushmaster makes a fine weapon I hear along with DPMS.

You really need to look around and read up on the rifles so you can decide. The most common will be Bushmaster and RRA.

[ChromeLined]

Welcome this place is great man:D well for 3 gun and range only..carbines are great for 3 gun as they are light and handy so id suggest like others have said Bushmaster/RRA/STAG..a carbine can be used for the range as well but its not a long range weapon....well that solves your gonna have to buy 2 a carbine and a full size match rifle and what ever you choose for your first most certainly will not be your last...I swore my first was it...4 ARs later and Im still syaing it.

Wife and I are moving to Texas in february guess im gonna have to celebrate moving to freedom and liberty by buying a factory no-ban just for good measure.I already have all Bushmasters so I guess maybe an RRA chrome lined 20" A2...I miss the full size rifle my first Bushmaster started out that way and ended up and M4 and so have the other 3 just different barrels and had to make at least 1 flat top.:D welcome to the addiction...Dave

[K.L. Davis]

ARs are like car tires... while there are dozens of "names", most of the major components are made by one of only a few companies...

Each person has their own *feelings* on some stuff, some guys dont like brand X just because it is made in a state they dont like, or has a logo that is not cool. So, if you stick with a list of about a half dozen or so names, you will be fine. Short list of places that make complete rifles, not all inclusive:

Colt
Rock River Arms
Stag/CMT
Bushmaster
DPMS
Armalite
Smith & Wesson

Or you can have a dealer here build you one, and end up with a quality lower with a different name... POF, Mega Machine, etc -- and you will have a damn nice gun that way.

Given what you are asking, I would suggest talking to a dealer about a lower receiver assembly from any of the above -- each of them has their druthers really, and then take a look at what they offer in the way of uppers set up for what you are looking to do. Some of the folks do not deal in lower receivers, due to the license required, but turn out great uppers... and the two just snap together with two pins.

Hit the dealer forums on here... go to there web sites and look around. JTac, G&R, ADCO, Bravo Company and others... each person has their own style, but all of them use good parts and can build a good gun -- at this point, it is pretty much about finding someone that you like talking to and puts together what appeals to you.

I am sure that within the passing of one sun, there will be someone along that competes in the style of matches you are looking at... someone more qualified to help than me, bullets coming out the pointy end every time I pull the trigger is all it takes to make me happy. I will suggest a starting point of a 16" barrel and mid-length gas system... that is a great choice for anything within a few football fields.

eta: see, while I was typing, they were already showing up!

[C4IGrant]

I will go against the grain a little and suggest you look at a more of a custom weapon. The reason is that you are wanting to use this gun in competition so accuracy should be of some concern. There are some chrome lined barrels that will shoot 1MOA, but that really isn't the norm IMHO.

You might want to look at a quality SS barrel (like the WOA barrel that ADCO sells) with a middy gas system. Put a FF rail system on it with a CMT receiver. You can then buy a Stag lower (with all internals installed from any number of dealers). Push the pins together and you are done! No gun smithing on your part and you will have an accurate weapon that is most likely cheaper than buying a factory direct BM (for reference).


C4

[whitetiger7654]

I will go against the grain a little and suggest you look at a more of a custom weapon. The reason is that you are wanting to use this gun in competition so accuracy should be of some concern. There are some chrome lined barrels that will shoot 1MOA, but that really isn't the norm IMHO.

You might want to look at a quality SS barrel (like the WOA barrel that ADCO sells) with a middy gas system. Put a FF rail system on it with a CMT receiver. You can then buy a Stag lower (with all internals installed from any number of dealers). Push the pins together and you are done! No gun smithing on your part and you will have an accurate weapon that is most likely cheaper than buying a factory direct BM (for reference).


C4

Good point. The last 3 gun match one of the stages was knock down the small round steel targets at 100 yards no scope. I was able to get 3 out of 6 down. Not bad since it was my first time ever shooting that far and first time ever shooting that gun. So yes the gun does have to be accurate and reliable.

[ChromeLined]

For within 100 yds or even as far as 2 or 3 you can go light handy and chrome lined..how about an M4 type with removable carry handle and 16" M4 profile barell..I like 14.5/phantoms but for me its the smallest legaly with out having to SBR it and I dont change around flash hiders...although when we move to Texas im gonna put in the papaer work for a silencer and im pretty sure a phantom is too long for one so Ill have to go back to a standard hider for that.:D

[whitetiger7654]

How are the GSE's. I just watched their torture test video and I'm really impressed.

[Robb Jensen]

If you're going to buy a factory built to start 3gun I'd recommend a RRA A4 Elite. This is a mid-length 16" HBAR chromed lined with a flat top upper. The RRA also already has a decent trigger (2 stage) and a 6 pos M4 stock and usually sells for $1K
Later you can add a muzzle brake, freefloat tube, optics etc. You can compete with the RRA right off the bat in Limited division. I compete in 'Tactical' which means I can have 1 optic on my rifle, I can use a Limited pistol (my STI) and my shotgun can only have 8 rounds (no load tubes), not porting and no optics.


It's all going to matter on how much you want to spend. I don't even know how much I actually have in my 3gun rifle, but I can tell you I spent about $600 just on the scope and almost $200 for the mount. It's a total Frankengun, but runs VERY well now which is 100%. I got the upper used. It had been assembled very poorly by a DIY'r (who didn't know what he was doing). It had an Armalite M4 ramped upper on a Bushy 20" fluted bbl (rifle ramps), with an adjustable gas block which was canted and 2 of the 3 screws stripped and a JP free float tube.

I swapped out the upper receiver for a correct rifle ramped CMT upper, reinstalled the Bushy 20" bbl, replaced the canted stripped out JP gas block with a new one and dimpled the bbl about 1.5mm for the 3 set screws and Rocksetted the set screws in. I installed a JP Bennie Cooley muzzle brake and drilled a 3/16" hole on the right side for bias. I installed a JP bolt carrier, LW ACB bolt, Bushmaster lower w/DPMS lower parts kit and JARD adjustable trigger w/KNS pins, Magpul grip, ACE stock with CS action spring and an Enidine rifle buffer. I use the JP back up iron sights and sight them in for 10yds and the optic is a Leupold Vari-X III 1.5-5x 20mm Illuminated w/German No.4 reticle (30mm tube) in a Larue SPR mount. This rifle recoils about like a Ruger 10/22 and the trigger is amazing.

When I wear this upper out, I'll likely be getting a 16" or 18" ABS carbon fiber bbl w/middy gas and probably a DD Lite rail. With a new AR15barrels.com gas block (very light!).

I like the 20" because at matches where I compete we shoot from about 10yds to 300yds. You need at least a 16" bbl to make the power factor with 55gr ammo at USPSA sanctioned matches. 14.5" will make it but you have to used heavier bullets. I like the 20" because it shoots flatter than almost all 16" guns.

This pic is from before I rebuilt the upper.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/127d1702.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/d13800d6.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/leaning.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/fe9595b4.jpg

[whitetiger7654]

Got M4 thanks for the very informative post. I don't know all the rules and regulations of the competitions either. The AR I'd like to keep in the $1,000 range for now. I'm going to be purchasing a Glock 35 for my handgun. I also need a cheap shotgun (less than $300). Thanks again.

[svtar15]

While all the above listed rifles are good, they left out Doublestar. Their rifles compete with all major brands and hold their own. Their base 16" rifle starts between $700 and $800. Great quality, great price.
www.star15.com

[whitetiger7654]

Ok check what I have so far and tell me what you think.

Free float barrel/handguard (That's the same thing right?)
Lightweight "pencil" barrel to keep weight down & 20" barrel for accuracy (Do they come chrome lined?)
Flattop so I can put optics on top
6 position stock

Anything else I should add? And do any fully built rifles come with all this already?

[C4IGrant]

Ok check what I have so far and tell me what you think.

Free float barrel/handguard (That's the same thing right?)
Lightweight "pencil" barrel to keep weight down & 20" barrel for accuracy (Do they come chrome lined?)
Flattop so I can put optics on top
6 position stock

Anything else I should add? And do any fully built rifles come with all this already?


Free floating means that the HG is NOT touching the handguard cap in any way.

Barrel length has NOTHING to do with accuracy. I would stick with an 18" or a 16" as they are going to be more maneuverable. You can get anything chrome lined these days, but remember that chrome lining detracts from the accuracy potential of the weapon.

You want a flattop for sure and a 5 or 6 position collapsible.


C4

[svtar15]

I have to agree with Grant. 16" Barrels are easier to move around in those matches and we still gurantee a 1 MOA group at 100 yds with that barrel. Chrome lining does in fact take away accuracy, but gives your barrel more life. We have them either way. Some people like it chromed, some don't. Personally, I like them non-chromed. That's just me though.