View Full Version : Knight's SR-15/16?
I've been seeing threads here and there on other forums of late indicating that KAC may finally have decided that there is money to be made in the commercial sales market for both their suppressors and rifles. This led me to check out the SR section of their site (http://www.knightarmco.com/sr_15_16.html).
What's the consensus on these? Just looking at the parts list, I'm not sure I see what all the hoopla is about, and frankly I've always kind of thought it was more about "look at me, I have something you don't" than anything else. Am I missing something? Does the whole equal more than the sum of the parts?
The sum of the parts is pretty impressive on its own...
For those who want a FF rifle, 2 stage trigger etc its a good one stop shop.
Plus you get bragging rights for having one :D
I'm going to get two of the SR15E3 midlenght carbines when they get released this month.
According to this thread on silencertalk.com (http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13621&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0) the bragging rights may be short lived as it sounds like someone at KAC has seen the light and decided to pursue the commercial market with these things (as well as the cans), and they are expecting retail to be around $2k.
The proprietary bolt (as with anything proprietary) and receiver extension concern me to some degree. I'm also curious as to the effect on the LPK of the ambi parts. While I don't think that KAC is going anywhere, I don't want to depend on one source for all replacement parts.
Interesting notes on their materials, reposted from over there
The E3 bolts are not compatible with a standard bbl extension. They are not pressure tested or mag part inspected. Shot peened? didn't know about that. The profile of these bolts makes them durable. We will warrenty against material or manufact. defect.
I am familiar with the process.It is used on racing wheels alot. I did not know it was used on bolts. I know it is used on aluminum and big parts. I can't imagine how you could get to the surfaces that need to be strengthened (bottom of lug) material choice is so much more important than these types of things. Mil spec. doesn't mean much to me. Most manf. use diff. materials for military and commercial production. KAC's material selection is proprietary and part of the "recipe" . We spend lots of money to do R&D to make these material selections they are a closely guarded secret. We made the mistake of advertising inconel as our baffle material and helped a lot of silencer makers be able to make a short cut.
I have been talking with Trey about getting setup as a C3 dealer with them. It appears that they are in fact looking to grow into the commercial market.
Look for G&R to stock their cans, parts and complete weapons.
C4
variablebinary
10-08-07, 11:00
I've been seeing threads here and there on other forums of late indicating that KAC may finally have decided that there is money to be made in the commercial sales market for both their suppressors and rifles. This led me to check out the SR section of their site (http://www.knightarmco.com/sr_15_16.html).
What's the consensus on these? Just looking at the parts list, I'm not sure I see what all the hoopla is about, and frankly I've always kind of thought it was more about "look at me, I have something you don't" than anything else. Am I missing something? Does the whole equal more than the sum of the parts?
I've never especially bowled over by KAC products. Truth be told, I'd rather have a Colt, but I would like to have one of their middy carbines once they go public.
Hey Grant,
I sent ya a E-mail on handguards. On topic, I would love to have the rifle length URX.
Cyrus
Unique trigger guard on the 15....
I'd like to get one of their lowers to SBR for the collection. Would probably sell the upper from the complete rifle......
variablebinary
10-08-07, 19:45
I'd like to get one of their lowers to SBR for the collection. Would probably sell the upper from the complete rifle......
Ditto
Colt and KAC SBR lowers would be sweet.
I'd like to get one of their lowers to SBR for the collection. Would probably sell the upper from the complete rifle......
Some ulti-pimp will probably put a HK 416 upper on one to be the first to post pics on the interweb. :cool:
The sum of the parts is pretty impressive on its own...
For those who want a FF rifle, 2 stage trigger etc its a good one stop shop.
Don't forget about the hammer forged barrel and mid-length URX....:eek:
Yup.
KAC porn
I'm hoping they release a factory SBR, I've got an upper like this - but having the lower would be a sweet package for personal ownership
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Weapons/11.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Weapons/KACSR15E32007a.jpg
but I already have a middy URX :D
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Weapons/Kev-reload.jpg
I'm hoping they release a factory SBR, I've got an upper like this - but having the lower would be a sweet package for personal ownership
Supposedly a no-go on semi SBR's... Hopefully enough people will ask and maybe they could do a limited run on them.
Also interesting that it was also mentioned that the flip-up front sight gas blocks will now be a normal stocking item that dealers can order.
I was planning on pulling the SR15E3 apart putting a chopped rifle URX on it with the flip front sight...
I wonder if KAC needs any employees to help faciltiate civilian sales [/hint] :D
I was planning on pulling the SR15E3 apart putting a chopped rifle URX on it with the flip front sight...
I was thinking the same thing until I noticed that, at least it seems to me, the barrel is specifically profiled for the low profile gas block... :(
I wonder if KAC needs any employees to help faciltiate civilian sales [/hint] :D
Same here... I wouldn't mind driving up a couple days a week to lend a helping hand. :D
nationwide
10-09-07, 08:11
Guess they read the tea leaves and understand the gravy train is on it's final leg?
I've been to KAC and seen them running 24/7 to fill .gov orders.
KAC will be selling guns and accessories to units for a long long time. Some items may phase out in the near term, but when you see the massive expansion that they undertook to try to meet demand - you will understand why they HAD (and that is a legal requirement to meet .mil demand first) to put off civilian sales.
In 2002 and later SHOT 2003 both C. Reed Knight Jr. and Dave Lutz (Lt.Col USMC ret. - and posts here as coldblue) mentioned that civilian sales of several items would be forthcoming IF we did not move into Iraq. Well come March 2003 and all that planning went for naught.
Reportedly (and this is heresay since I not spoken with anyoen at KAC in awhile) Trey Knight has intentions of expanding their civilian sales and intoduction more models.
My only experience with them is playing around with my buddy's post ban '15.
It's very nice, very accurate, and it does not have a chrome lined barrel.
He's fine with that, he maintains it religiously, but I think I'd rather have a 6920.
Still a beautiful rifle though.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Range%20Day%209-13-05/Half%20Sized%20Range%20Day/RangePics9-13-05003.jpg
I'd love to upgrade mine. Actually, I'd love to purchase a Mk11Mod1 and sell mine, but I imagine the market for a used SR would be low when you can purchase a new one.
Grant, if you can get a SASS barrel, gas block, and suppressor, I'll be very interested. I'm wondering if I would be better off to just applying those funds to a new rifle though.
Here's mine, I'm waiting on the S&B scope:
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i80/M4Fanatic/MySR25.jpg
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i80/M4Fanatic/MySR25-2.jpg
i called last week (about the sr25) and was told I could buy the suppressor, but the gas block was restricted (due to the aforementioned production capacity issues) making the suppressor pretty well useless, duct tape notwithstanding. :)
hate to be selfish here, but it looks like electing ron paul is the only chance I've got for the cool toys
That's interesting. I was told that they would never allow the gas block to be sold without a barrel as they match each one to a specific barrel/suppressor to minimize poi shift and prevent strikes.
maybe we're asking about different models or something.
Rob S how about I send you a gun for T&E and you tell me what you think after you run it through the ringer. Or you could ask Jerry Barnhardt what he thinks, he has one of the first guns. He might not give me his honest opinion anyways just to be polite ;but I am sure you will tell me what you think.
Rob S how about I send you a gun for T&E and you tell me what you think after you run it through the ringer.
I feel left out.....:(
;)
Grant, that would outstanding if you were able to sell the cans!
Is it possible to buy a SR15 upper?
Rob S how about I send you a gun for T&E and you tell me what you think after you run it through the ringer. Or you could ask Jerry Barnhart what he thinks he has one of the first guns. He might not give me his honest opinion anyways just to be polite ;but I am sure you will tell me what you think.
If you're serious, I'll be taking a Pat Rogers 3-day carbine class in December. I would be happy to run anyone's gun through the class and see how it works out and how I like it.
Glad to see you made it over here and got some posting in. This forum is a good bunch of guys and an excellent knowledge-base about the AR.
Robb Jensen
10-10-07, 05:06
Rob S how about I send you a gun for T&E and you tell me what you think after you run it through the ringer. Or you could ask Jerry Barnhart what he thinks he has one of the first guns. He might not give me his honest opinion anyways just to be polite ;but I am sure you will tell me what you think.
Welcome to M4Carbine.net III. It's good to see the manufacturers here. :)
And that's a great offer to Rob_S.
Rob_S this will give you the opportunity to add KAC to 'the chart', I've VERY sure that it'll be WAY over to the left side of it.........a great thing !
My boss recently ordered some Colts from a distributor and was offered a KAC SR15 with a Krieger barrel and he asked if I thought we could sell it. I told him that it probably wouldn't last a week on the wall. So we'll soon have it.
KevinB
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Weapons/KACSR15E32007a.jpg
THAT gun has always given me a serious case of the happies.
Robb,
I "may" know someone interested in the SR15... :D
I have to replace my donated to the GWOT upper as well
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Iraq/IMG_3481.jpg
When your life in on the line - I brought the best... ;)
C. Reed Knight III welcome as well, I met you and your dad via "coldblue" Lt.Col Lutz at SHOT once (but no one ever remembers me).
Cheers
Kev
Lumpy,
Yeah but I want them to release a SR15 version of mine...
with this.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Iraq/Iraq208.jpg
Robb Jensen
10-10-07, 05:54
Robb,
I "may" know someone interested in the SR15... :D
Cheers,
Kev
I'm off today and tomorrow but I've emailed the boss to get me the details on it and I'll PM them to you.
Robb
Rob S. I am very serious get me an FFL and a letter stating how long you need it for. I will make a believer out of you yet.
Kevin B. you have been carrying the flag for Knight's for a long time the company thanks you and I thank you for your continual support. If you weren't north of the border I would send you one of everything we make. I guess T-shirts,hats, etc. will have to do right now.
I have waited to post on this site till I have some good news and for all of you that have not lost faith in us KAC guns are coming soon. We will also be strengthening our dealer network to make parts more accessible and cut down on gouging. Again thanks to all of of you who havn't lost faith and to those that have please give us another chance.
Grant, that would outstanding if you were able to sell the cans!
Yes it will. They have the NT4 in stock along with some of the 9mm offerings.
C4
Robb Jensen
10-10-07, 10:23
Rob S. I am very serious get me an FFL and a letter stating how long you need it for. I will make a believer out of you yet.
Kevin B. you have been carrying the flag for Knight's for a long time the company thanks you and I thank you for your continual support. If you weren't north of the border I would send you one of everything we make. I guess T-shirts,hats, etc. will have to do right now.
I have waited to post on this site till I have some good news and for all of you that have not lost faith in us KAC guns are coming soon. We will also be strengthening our dealer network to make parts more accessible and cut down on gouging. Again thanks to all of of you who havn't lost faith and to those that have please give us another chance.
This is great news, KAC makes excellent rifles and I plan to acquire one soon too. The only reason I've never bought one is because of the gouging which sadly is very rampant in this business (when companies aren't manufacturer-to-dealer direct).
Once again welcome to the site and we'll see you at SHOT.
Robb
Rob S. I am very serious get me an FFL and a letter stating how long you need it for. I will make a believer out of you yet.
Kevin B. you have been carrying the flag for Knight's for a long time the company thanks you and I thank you for your continual support. If you weren't north of the border I would send you one of everything we make. I guess T-shirts,hats, etc. will have to do right now.
I have waited to post on this site till I have some good news and for all of you that have not lost faith in us KAC guns are coming soon. We will also be strengthening our dealer network to make parts more accessible and cut down on gouging. Again thanks to all of of you who havn't lost faith and to those that have please give us another chance.
Welcome and thank you for posting here!
C4
Rob S. I am very serious get me an FFL and a letter stating how long you need it for. I will make a believer out of you yet.
Kevin B. you have been carrying the flag for Knight's for a long time the company thanks you and I thank you for your continual support. If you weren't north of the border I would send you one of everything we make. I guess T-shirts,hats, etc. will have to do right now.
I have waited to post on this site till I have some good news and for all of you that have not lost faith in us KAC guns are coming soon. We will also be strengthening our dealer network to make parts more accessible and cut down on gouging. Again thanks to all of of you who havn't lost faith and to those that have please give us another chance.
Welcome to the site! For those of us KAC fans who have been "wandering in the woods" for the past few years, this is a great day.
I have already warned my wife that we'll be experiencing some cash outflows in the near future. I just need to find a source for the mounts for the suppressor before I can purchase a can.
And to all of those who blasted me for owning an SR25 rather than an AR-10 or a DPMS, I'd like to figuratively thumb my nose at you now. :) I have said all along that KAC would return to the market. When they've had the bandwidth, they have never turned their back on us. And when they haven't, I understand.
(Not really aimed at people on this site though.)
Thank you Mr. Knight.
variablebinary
10-10-07, 11:24
Rob S. I am very serious get me an FFL and a letter stating how long you need it for. I will make a believer out of you yet.
Kevin B. you have been carrying the flag for Knight's for a long time the company thanks you and I thank you for your continual support. If you weren't north of the border I would send you one of everything we make. I guess T-shirts,hats, etc. will have to do right now.
I have waited to post on this site till I have some good news and for all of you that have not lost faith in us KAC guns are coming soon. We will also be strengthening our dealer network to make parts more accessible and cut down on gouging. Again thanks to all of of you who havn't lost faith and to those that have please give us another chance.
Very nice. Lots of people looking forward to your products.
Rob S. I am very serious get me an FFL and a letter stating how long you need it for. I will make a believer out of you yet.
Kevin B. you have been carrying the flag for Knight's for a long time the company thanks you and I thank you for your continual support. If you weren't north of the border I would send you one of everything we make. I guess T-shirts,hats, etc. will have to do right now.
I have waited to post on this site till I have some good news and for all of you that have not lost faith in us KAC guns are coming soon. We will also be strengthening our dealer network to make parts more accessible and cut down on gouging. Again thanks to all of of you who havn't lost faith and to those that have please give us another chance.
Excellent news - thanks for brining KAC back to the civi sector.
Rob S. I am very serious get me an FFL and a letter stating how long you need it for. I will make a believer out of you yet.
I sent you a PM with my email address. Shoot me an email with the fax number to send the FFL and I'll get it to you ASAP.
Robb,
I "may" know someone interested in the SR15... :D
I have to replace my donated to the GWOT upper as well
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Iraq/IMG_3481.jpg
When your life in on the line - I brought the best... ;)
C. Reed Knight III welcome as well, I met you and your dad via "coldblue" Lt.Col Lutz at SHOT once (but no one ever remembers me).
Cheers
Kev
Good God!
specs?
KAC SR16 upper only real dif from stock
16" Douglas SS barrel midlenght (Armalite length not KAC length) SPR profile. Wylde Chamber done by CLE.
Rifle length URXII cutdown to middy with ears by KAC (coldblue)
III,
I have export ready FFL's as soon as you guys open the floodgate. :D
*my parents also live down near your old Vero place, and I have a Fla DL, as I've been living (well half of my leave periods) the last 2 years of private contracting in Fla.
I sent you a PM with my email address. Shoot me an email with the fax number to send the FFL and I'll get it to you ASAP.
Rob, request 2 since we'll both be there and 2 data points are better than 1. ;)
Rob S. I am very serious get me an FFL and a letter stating how long you need it for. I will make a believer out of you yet.
Kevin B. you have been carrying the flag for Knight's for a long time the company thanks you and I thank you for your continual support. If you weren't north of the border I would send you one of everything we make. I guess T-shirts,hats, etc. will have to do right now.
I have waited to post on this site till I have some good news and for all of you that have not lost faith in us KAC guns are coming soon. We will also be strengthening our dealer network to make parts more accessible and cut down on gouging. Again thanks to all of of you who havn't lost faith and to those that have please give us another chance.
Oustanding! I can't wait to get a NT4! Its good to hear that the days of 'unobatanium' are over.
Heavy Metal
10-10-07, 16:39
Grant,
I want an SR-16. Let me know when you are set up to order from them.
I'm starting to salivate thinking about possibility of owning an SR-16 in the near future, I guess living in south Florida isn't so bad after all.
:D
Reed I sent you a PM regarding dealer info.
I have waited to post on this site till I have some good news and for all of you that have not lost faith in us KAC guns are coming soon. We will also be strengthening our dealer network to make parts more accessible and cut down on gouging. Again thanks to all of of you who havn't lost faith and to those that have please give us another chance.
Reed, I have been waiting a LONG time to hear you guys say this! I for one cannot wait to have a few SR15E3s, 7.62 Battle Rifle, and a few suppressors.
Oh and if I may insert a request, please make the PDW available to civilians in both title-1 and title-2 variants. I would immediately buy two SBRs and a 16" title-1 variant.
Glad to see you posting here.
Josh (a Native Floridian temporarily detained in the Carolinas)
Rob, request 2 since we'll both be there and 2 data points are better than 1. ;)
Anthony and Rob,
We can do 3 and hit them from three different viewpoints. Civilian shooter, .mil, and LE. I will be at the EAG course also.
Jack
I just hope there's enough SR15's when they're released this month.
Pat_Rogers
10-11-07, 06:30
Rob S- That is excellent. Hopefully you'll have them in time for the Lakeland Class (arrggg- are you coming to that?)
I'll have the 3 S&W MP15's there and finishing up the T&E on them- round count should be appx 10k on one and 7k on the others.
This will be a great opportunity to see the new releases (long overdue) from KAC in a viable environment.
Bolt_Overide
10-11-07, 11:43
sign me up on the list for one too grant, daddy likes...
I said
I am familiar with the process.It is used on racing wheels alot. I did not know it was used on bolts. I know it is used on aluminum and big parts. I can't imagine how you could get to the surfaces that need to be strengthened (bottom of lug)
referring to shot peening bolts.
after talking to other people about this process I think it may have some merit.
Grant,
I want an SR-16. Let me know when you are set up to order from them.
We are taking pre-orders here: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=8163
C4
Rob S- That is excellent. Hopefully you'll have them in time for the Lakeland Class (arrggg- are you coming to that?)
Yes, I'm coming to that, and I am strongly hoping to have it by then. For me it's what would make the review worthwhile.
Pat_Rogers
10-12-07, 06:59
Cool beans! It will be nice to see another manufacturer in the market, and nicer still to see how they play out in class.
FYI the SR16 are select fire.
The SR15's are civilian sale items.
(dont blame me, blame the .gov)
Snake: I post gun porn on websites :D
I used to be in the Canadian Army, and two years ago decided to come frollicking as a security contractor
after talking to other people about this process I think it may have some merit.
I think that it's actually more important than the HPT or the MPI for a company making smaller batches of things, or making them in-house.
I value MPI and HPT on mass-produced "milspec" bolts because I want to know that my one of one-million isn't going to crack on me. These are testing processes to help ensure that.
Shot peening is more about making a good part better, not about testing a part to see if it passes muster. Hence, if you're making a part in smaller batches and can control the QC better, you may be able to skip the MPI and HPT, but should still include the Shot peening, IMHO.
Trey and I had a conversation about bolts. He believes the same thing that I do. If you use quality materials and check the steel BEFORE you make bolt, HPT/MP isn't very important. If companies do not test the steel prior to making the bolt, then I think HPT/MP becomes very important.
C4
Trey and I had a conversation about bolts. He believes the same thing that I do. If you use quality materials and check the steel BEFORE you make bolt, HPT/MP isn't very important. If companies do not test the steel prior to making the bolt, then I think HPT/MP becomes very important.
C4
While I tend to agree, it doesn't change that it has become a standard in the industry. The key in any of it is the level of quality materials used, and all too often that can fluctuate for a variety of reasons, with many not being intentional on the part of the manufacturer.
While I tend to agree, it doesn't change that it has become a standard in the industry. The key in any of it is the level of quality materials used, and all too often that can fluctuate for a variety of reasons, with many not being intentional on the part of the manufacturer.
I fully agree that it is the Industry standard and is of course never a bad thing to do. I just think if companies take steps early on in production, that batch testing is more than acceptable.
Looking at the new E3 bolt, it appears to fix a lot of the known issues with standard bolts. Because of this, I am willing to bet that it will outlast any bolt made under the TDP requirements.
We always have to rember that the Govt standard is the lowest possible standard and still have machines, weapons, etc work.
C4
Heavy Metal
10-13-07, 12:49
The stuff I have read about the E3 bolt have left me highly impressed.
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