Question for DocGKR regarding a statement in the 5.56 Duty Load stickied thread

[Nephrology]

"Once a round has been chambered, DO NOT RE-CHAMBER IT for duty use. Do NOT re-chamber it again, except for training. This is CRITICAL!!!"

I am aware that this is specifically for 5.56 in AR-15s and that the crushing of the primer compound was a result of the floating firing pin of the AR-15, but are you aware of anything similar happening to handgun ammunition that has been rechambered?

I am aware of (and have personally experienced) serious bullet setback in defensive ammunition that I have re-chambered multiple times, but it seems limited to my 1911. Have not noticed significant setback in any of the 9mm JHPs I have re-chambered in my Glocks.

[DocGKR]

It happens with handgun loads as well.

I know of one large organization that was repeatedly re-chambering their duty service pistol loads in .40 Glocks--when finally checked, a significant number of these multiply chambered cartridges failed to fire or exhibited other functional issues.

http://lightfighter.net/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1931084651/m/174108241?r=752106541#752106541

http://lightfighter.net/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7206084761/m/98820543663?r=98820543663#98820543663

[Nephrology]

Interesting. Thanks for the heads up. My current JHPs are at least 6 months old - some of them older now - and I was totally unaware that such a problem could exist.

Now seems to be the right time to retire them. The next time I get the chance (unfortunately not likely to be soon given my rather demanding schedule) I will send them down range and see how they do. Time to put in an order for some Gold Dots...

[DocGKR]

Purchase a case (500-1000 rds) of duty/carry ammo at a time. Shoot a few hundred to ensure function, verify POA/POI, as well as to assess both flash and recoil characteristics. Once that is done, load your 2-3 carry mags with fresh ammo and chamber a round. Take the remainder of the ammo (200-500 rds) and store it in a dry and temperate location for future use.

Keep your pistol loaded--don't be jerking off and loading/unloading all the time. Be really smart and instead of acquiring a bunch of varied junk, just purchase 2-3 identical quality pistols, one to carry, one to train with, and perhaps an extra one to sit in a lock box at home to serve as a back-up or to arm another family member if needed.

Do the math--if you unload your pistol once a week then you will go through 52 rounds a year from your stored stash to ensure a fresh round is always chambered; if you unload only once a month, you will go through 12 rounds a year...I suspect 200-500 rounds of stored ammo will last a reasonable amount of time at that rate. Every once in a while (2-4 times a year or so), shoot a magazine of old carry ammo to re-verify function and POA/POI.

[Shawn Dodson]

Keep your pistol loaded--don't be jerking off and loading/unloading all the time.

BINGO! When I remove my pistol from the holster it goes straight into its lock box without unloading. When I remove it from the lock box I perform a quick Battle Readiness Check and holster it.

[Nephrology]

Purchase a case (500-1000 rds) of duty/carry ammo at a time. Shoot a few hundred to ensure function, verify POA/POI, as well as to assess both flash and recoil characteristics. Once that is done, load your 2-3 carry mags with fresh ammo and chamber a round. Take the remainder of the ammo (200-500 rds) and store it in a dry and temperate location for future use.

Keep your pistol loaded--don't be jerking off and loading/unloading all the time. Be really smart and instead of acquiring a bunch of varied junk, just purchase 2-3 identical quality pistols, one to carry, one to train with, and perhaps an extra one to sit in a lock box at home to serve as a back-up or to arm another family member if needed.

Do the math--if you unload your pistol once a week then you will go through 52 rounds a year from your stored stash to ensure a fresh round is always chambered; if you unload only once a month, you will go through 12 rounds a year...I suspect 200-500 rounds of stored ammo will last a reasonable amount of time at that rate. Every once in a while (2-4 times a year or so), shoot a magazine of old carry ammo to re-verify function and POA/POI.

Good advice. Currently I own 2 9mm glocks -a G17 and a G19 - that I keep for competition and carry. Looks like I will start keeping the G19 hot all the time and using the 17 for dry fire practice. They both have nearly identical sight pictures (the 17's rear notch is a little wider by ~.1" in each direction). The only other handgun I own is a junker RIA 1911 that hosts a .22 conversion kit that I use to introduce newbies to shooting. Might flip it for a .22 kit for the 17.



BINGO! When I remove my pistol from the holster it goes straight into its lock box without unloading. When I remove it from the lock box I perform a quick Battle Readiness Check and holster it.


I am new to carrying - only been a year since i've had my CHL, though I've been a shooter for some time now. Still learning the tricks to carrying - it is incredibly useful to have professional resources like the Doc and everyone else here at m4c to rely on for good advice.

[sjohnny]

The best way to get that round out of the chamber is to shoot it. I usually empty the magazine that I've had in the gun when I get to the range. That way there is always a magazine of fresh rounds in it for carry. There are a few occasions when I end up unchambering and rechambering a round but I try to limit how many times I do it and rotate the previously chambered round with other rounds in the magazine when I do have to unload and reload.

[Nephrology]

I am thinking that I will set my limit to 3x per round and use a sharpie to denote how many times it has been exactly.

[ack495]

The .357 sig round is notorious for set back. My former dept uses 125 gr gold dots. Non gun guys used to come up to me while at work and say, "This bullet doesn't look right. Is this bad"? To my horrified eyes I would see a round with the bullet half way down the case! I had to spread the word quick that guys had to stop rechambering the same round over and over again.

[CLHC]

Purchase a case (500-1000 rds) of duty/carry ammo at a time. Shoot a few hundred to ensure function, verify POA/POI, as well as to assess both flash and recoil characteristics. Once that is done, load your 2-3 carry mags with fresh ammo and chamber a round. Take the remainder of the ammo (200-500 rds) and store it in a dry and temperate location for future use.

Keep your pistol loaded--don't be jerking off and loading/unloading all the time. Be really smart and instead of acquiring a bunch of varied junk, just purchase 2-3 identical quality pistols, one to carry, one to train with, and perhaps an extra one to sit in a lock box at home to serve as a back-up or to arm another family member if needed.

Do the math--if you unload your pistol once a week then you will go through 52 rounds a year from your stored stash to ensure a fresh round is always chambered; if you unload only once a month, you will go through 12 rounds a year...I suspect 200-500 rounds of stored ammo will last a reasonable amount of time at that rate. Every once in a while (2-4 times a year or so), shoot a magazine of old carry ammo to re-verify function and POA/POI.
Another sound advice and one that I have to keep in check!

[Nephrology]

Another sound advice and one that I have to keep in check!

Yeah I am really happy that I have consolidated on 9mm glocks. I want to get a 26 and another 19 sometime in the near future too.

[VelveteenMole]

How bad is it really for administrative loading to ride the charging handle down at about half speed, hit the forward assist and view that the BCG is fully forward? As in just learn how hard you can drop the bolt without dinging the primer? I understand with pistols the barrel might not seat the same, changing POI, but with the AR I'd think it wouldn't really matter.

Thoughts?

[tgace]

I heard about this issue a number of years ago and as I do a bit of dry fire it concerned me, but after taking a few steps and breaking out my caliper I don't worry about it so much anymore.

I have never noticed any major set-back issues from a single chambering/re-chambering. If you constantly load the same round all year long, yeah thats a problem, but if after a training session you strip off the top 5-10 rounds of duty ammo, put the ejected round at the bottom and reload (and rotate duty magazines too) I have never seen a serious issue occur within a duty ammo rotation (we shoot up+reissue duty ammo annualy). If you eject rounds to swap to training ammo, rotate your magazines/ammo and inspect it from time to time and you should be fine.

My .02 YMMV.

[uwe1]

Yeah I am really happy that I have consolidated on 9mm glocks. I want to get a 26 and another 19 sometime in the near future too.

I did this as well. I started with a 17 for training and practice and a 26 for carry. DocGKR has given me similar advice. This caused me to promptly pick up another 17 and a new 19. My 17, 19, and 26 have had home-brewed grip modifications and all wear Hogue grips. However my spare 17 and a spare 19, I just picked up a few days ago, are both stock except for the sights and Vickers mag catch. The spares sit loaded in quick access gunvaults throughout the house. The carry guns stay loaded as well.

[12oreo]

When I have to remove a round from the chamber I will measure the overall length with a caliper and compare the result to others in the mag, which are from the same lot. If they are within family I consider the chambered round OK.

[glocktogo]

When I have to remove a round from the chamber I will measure the overall length with a caliper and compare the result to others in the mag, which are from the same lot. If they are within family I consider the chambered round OK.

Same here. It seems to me that an extra box or two of carry ammo is a lot cheaper than buying extra guns. Not that an excuse to buy more is necessarily a bad thing! :)

[DocGKR]

Don't forget that with certain weapons like the AR15, it is not just cartridge OAL issues, but also damage to the primer...

[longball]

"Once a round has been chambered, DO NOT RE-CHAMBER IT for duty use. Do NOT re-chamber it again, except for training. This is CRITICAL!!!"

I am aware that this is specifically for 5.56 in AR-15s and that the crushing of the primer compound was a result of the floating firing pin of the AR-15, but are you aware of anything similar happening to handgun ammunition that has been rechambered?

I am aware of (and have personally experienced) serious bullet setback in defensive ammunition that I have re-chambered multiple times, but it seems limited to my 1911. Have not noticed significant setback in any of the 9mm JHPs I have re-chambered in my Glocks.

Thanks for asking this question Nephrology. I have had this question for some time but was sure someone had asked the question before and didn't want to ask a question that had already been answered. Anyway, thanks to everyone who has participated in this discussion. I have rotated my carry ammunition a few times after having to unload my carry gun but it sounds like it is high time to trade it all out for fresh stuff.

As always DocGKR, thank for the quality info you provide for us here.

[Ironman8]

So is the issue with bullet setback or with damaged primers?

FWIW, I went to the range the other day and shot a magazine of Hydrashoks that I have repeatedly re-chambered in my M&P over the last year +. All fired without issue. So is this not an issue with striker fired handguns? Or was I just lucky?

[longball]

So is the issue with bullet setback or with damaged primers?

FWIW, I went to the range the other day and shot a magazine of Hydrashoks that I have repeatedly re-chambered in my M&P over the last year +. All fired without issue. So is this not an issue with striker fired handguns? Or was I just lucky?

In one of DocGKR's stickies he says damaged primers are the risk with AR style weapons and in the second post of this thread he says that it is a problem with handguns as well.
It happens with handgun loads as well.

I know of one large organization that was repeatedly re-chambering their duty service pistol loads in .40 Glocks--when finally checked, a significant number of these multiply chambered cartridges failed to fire or exhibited other functional issues.

http://lightfighter.net/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1931084651/m/174108241?r=752106541#752106541

http://lightfighter.net/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7206084761/m/98820543663?r=98820543663#98820543663
A couple years ago I was carrying some Hydrashoks that were included in part of the deal when I bought my M&P. They had been rechambered several times and I started to notice what looked to me like deformity of some of the cases. I decided to shoot them and replace them with Winchester Rangers. Of the mag that was loaded in my gun that I carried every day 2 of the first 5 rounds did not fire! One of the rounds fired upon rechambering but the first round in the mag (would have been my 2nd round if I needed to use the gun) would not fire at all, even after rechambering. That experience along with the information in this thread has made me understand just how important it is not to rechamber my carry rounds. From now on I will be rotating them out if I have to unload my gun for any reason. As Doc pointed put, even chambering a new round every week is pretty cheap insurance to make sure your ammunition is ready to go should it ever be needed.