View Full Version : Small Hand Carry Pistol
I've got the wife interested in shooting, but she has a lot of trouble gripping the M&P (even with small backstrap). There is a lot of problems getting her hand high up on the pistol. Her hands are not exceptionally large, even though she is fairly tall for a woman--she and my son have the same size hands--he's a skinny 12 and 5'4/pre-puberty--I've basically got an extra joint on both of them and I'd say my hands are "medium to medium/large" I.E. im not breaking the scale here.
Of course all of my standard pistols are huge. I did have her grip a 1911 which she liked better, and she had no issue with a Ruger SP101 even with .357 mag. Her preferred firearm is my Makarov, which while a decent gun does not meet the 9mm threshold for self defense. What is available is "slimline" duty or carry semi-auto pistols for carry, 9mm or larger (but probably 9mm only). Is there a Glock 19 SF? I tend to get stuck on capacity issues, so I prefer the double stack models--how are the single stack Glocks or other available options.
I think the Sig P225/P6 feels great with it's narrow grip. It feels smaller than most medium sized guns, and my hands are about as averaged sized as you can get.
My wife is like yours though, after laying a number of handguns on the table she thought she liked the feel of the Makarov the best! Safety is hard as hell to work, and like you said it's .380. I tried to push her toward the Mod. 60 Smith 2", but no go. She doesn't shoot very often, so she's just going entirely on feel, which is not a bad place to start.
F-Trooper05
05-16-11, 12:27
P30 with small grip inserts.
Kahr pistols have what I consider to be a small grip.
Double action only, which simplifies the manual of arms.
The slide and slide release can be stiff, though.
And, Kahr pistols have to go through a 200 round break-in.
One to consider.
You could have her look at the KelTec PF9. It's slim, 7 shot and 9mm. Ruger is supposed to be coming out with a 9mm version of the LCP also sometime.
TXBob,
I went through the same process with my wife who has medium to small hands. There's a very long thread if you search my posts. I can send it to you if you like, but basically we ended up with a Sig P229 for her since it had the best combination of grip size and recoil reduction.
The interesting thing is that she completely changed her mind from the showroom to the "go room". That is, pistols she fondled and liked behind the counter were, in most cases, the ones she shoot poorly.
She shoots the heck out of the Sig, however, she also liked the M&P (except for the trigger) at the range. At that time Apex didn't have the FCG parts for the M&P, otherwise we probably would have gotten that.
We tried smaller grip pistols like the 239's Kahrs, etc, but she didn't like the low mass/recoil that one gets with a smaller pistol. Same with some of the .380s. She absolutely hated the LCP.
Good luck and let us know what you end up with.
DeusExMachina
05-16-11, 13:32
+1 for Kahrs.
Beat Trash
05-16-11, 13:50
A Gen4 Glock 19 w/o any back strap?
An HK P30 with the smallest grip inserts?
Old school, maybe a Browning Hi Power?
Single stack 9mm's? A Sig 239 or a S&W 3913?
A Kahr P9 or T9?
This is kind of a hard question to answer on the internet. The best thing to do is to go to a well stocked gun store or gun show with the wife, and have her starting feeling up various guns.
You could have her look at the KelTec PF9. It's slim, 7 shot and 9mm. Ruger is supposed to be coming out with a 9mm version of the LCP also sometime.
I have a kel tec pf 9. I would not trust it as a ccw for my wife. I put about 100 to 200 rds throught it. Cleaned and did not fire it for about a year. I cleaned it every so often since I was carrying it at the time. When I went to shot it about a year after first firing it didn't preform well. The first shoot fired the next didn't, I ejected that round pulled the trigger and nothing. I ejected that round pulled the trigger and it didn't fire. The next didn't discharge as well . After I checked the bullets and could see the mark from the firing pin. I then placed those rounds in my glock and fired every shot. KEl Tec did fix the problem for free but I still can not trust it for CCW. Especially for my wife.
dirksterg30
05-16-11, 14:26
Is there a Glock 19 SF? I tend to get stuck on capacity issues, so I prefer the double stack models--how are the single stack Glocks or other available options.
What about a G19 with a grip reduction? You/she might also want to take a look at the Walther PPS/Kahr P9.
What I'm trying to find is an equivalent to a Glock 19 (top of the line reliability), with reduced capacity to make it slimmer. The grip reduction is an interesting take--I typically do not customize my pistols much--but that would definitely be an option.
Walther PPS, small backstrap, and a LimbSaver model 12012 grip sleeve.
I just did this Saturday and could not be happier. Also have med-small hands but with this setup I have trigger finger to spare and grip is fantastic.
Have her put her hand around a P99. My guess is she will like the feel.
Pistol Shooter
05-16-11, 15:17
What I'm trying to find is an equivalent to a Glock 19 (top of the line reliability), with reduced capacity to make it slimmer. The grip reduction is an interesting take--I typically do not customize my pistols much--but that would definitely be an option.
As several other members have suggested check out a P30.
It's got the reliability you're looking for and with the adjustable side panels and back straps for the grip there's a total of 27 different grip configurations.
Good luck, let us know how things work out. :)
another vote for the SIG p225/P6. My wife has little hands and she loves that gun.
My wife found that in order for her to grip the pistol comfortably, it needed to be a) single stack and b) have support for the 5th finger. She ruled out the M&P 9 Compact and the Glock 26 immediately - too bulky - and grip too short. We also looked at the Kahr, but there are too many reliability issues reported. She preferred the Walther PPS. She put the small backstrap on it and uses the 7 round magazine. It's been a great pistol for her, and I liked it so much I bought one too.
Didn't even consider the Keltec - my buddy has one and it's been a nightmare. Not interested in a pistol that requires a "fluff and buff" before it will even begin to feed reliability.
Kahr pistols have what I consider to be a small grip.
Double action only, which simplifies the manual of arms.
The slide and slide release can be stiff, though.
And, Kahr pistols have to go through a 200 round break-in.
One to consider.
We have three Kahrs: a PM9, a K9, and a TP9. The TP9 with its four inch barrel is noticeably easier for my wife to rack than either of the other two Kahrs, both of which have a shorter barrel and slide than the TP9. Also the all-stainless T9 at about 26-28 oz has the long (for a Kahr) 4" barrel of the TP9 and the weight/heft of a K9. Overall very good guns IMO. IMO reliability and durability in 9mm Kahrs is best in the models with 3.5 or 4" barrels, not 3" barrels.
I'd also look at the Walther PPS in 9mm. As slim as a Kahr poly frame 9mm, about 19-20 oz unloaded, it has Glock-like trigger with a short tactile reset. We have two of them, each with about 1100 rds.
The Walther PPS and the Kahr poly frame 9mm guns have small diameter grips, about .9" in width, and small from front to back as well. Great for folks with small hands.
Length of the grip varies. the Walther uses different length mags to achieve this, and the Kahrs actually have different length grips depending on the specific model.
IMO both the Kahrs and Walther PPS require a break-in period of at least a few hundred rds before being fully reliable.
The Dumb Gun Collector
05-16-11, 17:37
KAHR PM9
brushy bill
05-16-11, 18:56
Walther PPS
Should also have her tryout Bersa Thunder & Ultra Compact, Ruger LCR & LCP.
The pdf at this link may be of use to you in making your selection
http://mouseguns.com/PocketAutoComparison.pdf
Problem is all these mouse guns are a pain the @#$ to fire and practice with. Especially for someone not use to handling recoil. Although it is a seriously heavy gun and you're reduced to 5 shots, I would consider a Ruger SP101 with .38 or .38+p's.
The pdf at this link may be of use to you in making your selection
http://mouseguns.com/PocketAutoComparison.pdf
Nice chart, but why would it not include the Bersa guns?
Personally, I have never had a problem with shooting the mouse guns. Maybe I was in anticipation of such a horrible time with them that I ended up pleasantly surprised.
I have shot the Bersa Thunder & Compact Carry, Ruger LCR, Kel-Tec P11 and the only one that made any kind of impression as far as recoil or ability to handle was the P11 which started out kicking like a mule.
How small is small? Short fingers? Not very wide palm?
First off forget the P30. I've got thousands through the P30 and P2000 platforms. Nice guns but I know from experience that despite the interchangeable grip inserts it will not work very well for small hands. (Let the flames begin!) Why? The grip is too long with its unique shape; trigger reach is too long; and the trigger is heavy in the DA mode. P2000 would be a better choice than that but still not ideal.
You of course want 9mm forget the heavy/snappy recoil stuff.
Single Stacks:
The PPS is a very nice option of CC with the exception of needing to shift the grip to drop the mag and the lowish round count.
The Springfield EMP is a nice 9mm 1911 style single action option but SA/Safety and heavyish.
Regarding Kahr, They are good guns but I have a hard time being consistence with them with speed and under stress--they are not easy to shoot. But I would recommend the PM9 as being the gun that all the other manufacturers are trying to copy
Best Double Stacks:
The SIG P250c and sc has a small grip module and a short/thin trigger module but has a longish and heavyish trigger. However, it fits small shooters hands exceptionally well and has very good ergonomics.
Finally, I would check out Taurus. They tend to have smaller grips on some of their pistols. You will not doubt get Taurus haters here--but Taurus has improved in the last few years alot. The PT111 Millenium Pro has a very small grip, a nice trigger, good capacity (12). If you get it in Titanium it weighs in very very light-yet the recoil is decent. The 709 Slim (single stack) is another good option--it is similar in size and shape to the PPS.
BTW, I either own, have shot, or have handled every gun mentioned in this post.
Is there a Glock 19 for genuinely small hands? No there is not.
The real problem is not to obsess over quality but to worry about getting a choice for her that is too heavy, too bulky, too long a trigger reach, too heavy a trigger pull, and does not fit her hands. The Sig 229 mentioned by another poster (again I have thousands through the 229 and 239) is generally all of the bad above characteristics for most small statured/small handed persons (although the new E2 model might work for some in the hand size). Finally, the gun that is shot best at the static bench range (and not under stress) is generally not the best gun for CCW. The one that is with her, that she is confident with, and that she can get into action the quickest with the quickest "good enough" shots is the best. See how many shots she can get onto a torso sized target at 7 yards in 2, 3, and 4 seconds from the carry method she will use with that gun (starting in DA mode or with safety on if applicable) and real duty ammo (such as Speer GD 124gr). That is all the matters.
Good post Muzzy. I was the one who posted the Sig 229 suggestion. I should have metioned that it is the P229 SAS Gen 2 which has the smaller grip of the E2. That grip made a significant difference for my wife. Naturally, the other factors you mentioned are things to be considered as well as bieng able to easily manipulate the slide, clearing jams and bieng able to perform quick reloads.
Edit: Older, pre-Gen/E2 P229s can be converted to E2 grips by Sig for $100. This service includes the new one piece grip, and lower profile decocking lever, hammer strut and mainpring strut.
My wife has really small hands and the only thing that we found that she really likes is a 1911 with slim grips and a short trigger.
Kahr K9, Smith 3913, Smith 442.
LanceOregon
05-18-11, 06:32
I've got the wife interested in shooting, but she has a lot of trouble gripping the M&P (even with small backstrap). There is a lot of problems getting her hand high up on the pistol.
What is available is "slimline" duty or carry semi-auto pistols for carry, 9mm or larger (but probably 9mm only). Is there a Glock 19 SF? I tend to get stuck on capacity issues, so I prefer the double stack models--how are the single stack Glocks or other available options.
The Glock 19 SF is called the Walther PPS. It's grip is dramatically thinner than the Glocks, and also slightly shorter. She will have no problem handling it.
While the standard mag holds 7 rounds, an 8 round mag is available from Walther for the gun. It is a very accurate and easy to shoot pistol. Very easy gun to control and keep on target in rapid fire.
For some comparisons, here are two photos of my 9mm Walther PPS on the right, next to a 9mm Sig P239 on the left:
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/lanceJOregon/guns/239_PPS_above_new.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/lanceJOregon/guns/239_PPS_vertical_email.jpg
And here is another comparison with the 9mm PPS on the left, next to a S&W M&P compact handgun on the right.
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/lanceJOregon/guns/compare_thin_email.jpg
She will find it so much easier to grip a Walther PPS.
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For a full sized pistol I'll also recommend she try on the Walther P99 or new PPQ which I understand is basically the same sized gun with a better feeling trigger.
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