A demonstration on quality [Archive]

View Full Version : A demonstration on quality

kwelz

05-17-11, 12:59

Almost all of us here understand the reason behind purchasing a gun from a known quality manufacturer. We know that saving 100-200 bucks right now isn't worth the headache down the road. Some of us try to warn others when the topic comes up and we hear the same old arguments. Parts is Parts, all parts come from the same place. One company is as good as another, the list goes on.

Most of us here also know it is BS but sometimes it is hard to prove. So I submit to you these.

http://web.me.com/kwelz/Pictures/DPMS1.JPG

http://web.me.com/kwelz/Pictures/DPMS2.JPG

http://web.me.com/kwelz/Pictures/DPMS3.JPG

http://web.me.com/kwelz/Pictures/DPMS5.JPG

These are two DPMS lowers that were part of Full lower kits a friend of mine got in at his shop. They came with LPK, stock, etc and just needed to be assembled. As you can see, both have near identical damage. Another interesting note is that the anodizing is inside the crack which of course means that these parts were damaged while still in production.

The cracks go all the way through the Mag well and are not just "minor scratches" as one person has claimed. He has been trying to get DPMS to take these back for some time and has continued to get the run around. He finally just sold the rest of the kit and kept these lowers as a cautionary tale to others.

ssracer

05-17-11, 13:09

I have just about given up fighting the "parts is parts" battle with some people locally. The ones who will point to the raw forgings that two companies use being the same spec aluminum and the end result is just how "pretty" one makes it compared to the other. Some just refuse to see anything beyond their own opinion.

I have finally just started saying, ok...if all you want the rifle for is to be an occasional range plinker, fine, buy whatever makes you happy. But if you think there is ever a chance that the rifle might be needed to defend you or your family from something other than paper, don't you think and extra couple hundred bucks (even less in some cases) is worth it to have parts you know you can trust.

They usually still don't get it.

RAM Engineer

05-17-11, 13:24

I love it how people will review something and say "the quality appears to be good." AS IF quality is something you can always see with your eyes, and AS IF quality is something that is unique to each individual item, and not a population statistic.

Can you SEE that the parts are properly forged, hardened, machined, finished and assembled?

In the case above, yes, that is a gross failure of the QC/QA process, that is easily visible.

ssracer

05-17-11, 15:19

If I were DPMS I would be embarrassed ass hell to have those out in the world for all to see and someone in QC would be looking for a new job

markm

05-17-11, 15:40

markm

05-17-11, 15:42

If I were DPMS I would be embarrassed ass hell to have those out in the world for all to see and someone in QC would be looking for a new job

Another difference between DPMS and a Good manufacturer. You wouldn't catch Bravo or DD letting that shit be paraded all over the net. They'd make it right without a question.

Safetyhit

05-17-11, 15:45

You're long standing member here with no ulterior motive that has even been discernible, so I give you full credibility at this point. That said...absolutely unbelievable.

Maybe DMPS deserves an opportunity to explain themselves, but I can see no possible justification for what you've shown us here. Especially in this day and age.

mn_mike

05-17-11, 16:15

I actually seen pics of a DPMS mag well recently that was very wavy.

The outfit that broaches them has issues( I can only assume that this was caused by the broaching process).

I agree, regardless of the how or who or when, it's a QC issue all the way.

Mike in MN

Eurodriver

05-17-11, 16:58

Sometimes I wonder, DPMS/Bushmaster/etc are what at least appear to be larger outfits than BCM, DD, etc.

What if DPMS just stepped up to the plate, started HPT/MPI'ing their bolts and barrels, enacting stricter QC methods and using correct milspec steel and other specs? (i.e. 5.56 chamber)

They could still produce their low grade plinkers and low grade "match" rifles with virtually no changes and just make the "milspec" M4s off to the side. I have no reason to doubt they could easily charge less than BCM too.

Add to that they've already got a huge fan base among the "fit and finish" crowd, almost every FFL in America is a DPMS/Bushmaster dealer, and if they really cleaned up their act they would get the milspec crowd...I don't see why they didn't start this years ago.

Instead we get bullshit like this and batch tests that don't mean diddly.

Doc Safari

05-17-11, 17:20

What if DPMS just stepped up to the plate, started HPT/MPI'ing their bolts and barrels, enacting stricter QC methods and using correct milspec steel and other specs? (i.e. 5.56 chamber)

They could still produce their low grade plinkers and low grade "match" rifles with virtually no changes and just make the "milspec" M4s off to the side. I have no reason to doubt they could easily charge less than BCM too.

They won't do it because they don't have to. They have marketing and that's all they need. Every time I visit my local gun shop the owner brags how many DPMS rifles he's sold. He tried to sell me one.

This is why I got pissed at Stag when they started offering some Custom Package BS with better manufacturing practices. If they were serious they would start making every rifle to the higher standard, especially since the price difference is apparently only $100.

As long as people keep accepting junky quality rifles the manufacturers will happily keep making them, and any pretense of upgrading their specs will be just that: a pretense.

I worry that as some of the other top tier manufacturers become more established that they will actually lower their quality to save a few dimes.