View Full Version : Should I Replace my stock Noveske BCG with a BCM?
So, it's a BCM standard F/A that I'm looking to switch with. Going to be sitting in a standard Infidel. Have the "N" marked BCG ithe Infidel came with in now, been debating whether or not to replace it with the BCM.
Who manufactures the "N" marked BCG anyway? I know Noveske was using CMT, have they changed? The stock BCG is properly staked and the bolt is "MP" marked.
I'm on an iPhone and the search function is currently ****ing the dog.
Thanks!
Why would you think about changing over to a different BCG?
The Noveske BCG is a piece of shit. I'll take it off your hands for $50.
Aww c'mon. Cut me some slack.
Leonidas24
05-18-11, 00:30
I wouldn't. I thought at one point Noveske BCGs had a blue spring insert for the extractor, AFAIK that's not the case anymore. And even then that's a $3 fix.
Uh, why do you need to change your BCG? Is there someone wrong with the Noveske one?
El Pistolero
05-18-11, 01:24
Noveske and BCM bolt carrier groups are both mil-spec so there would be no difference. And if there was a differance, the Noveske would be better because they are a tier above BCM IMO. But there is nothing special about their BCGs vs Bravo Company's and vice versa. Go shoot it!
Eurodriver
05-18-11, 01:31
Whatever the hell BCM has done to absolutely corner the BCG market is incredible. Either the koolaid is extra sweet or people care way too much about having that ejection port cover open during internet photoshoots.
I have personally seen guys (more than 2) buy a brand new 6920 and sell the Colt BCG for $100 in order to justify a BCM BCG purchase. :ph34r:
(Hint: I have 3 spare Colt BCGs)
Fanboys exist in every genre of hobby.
Noveske and BCM bolt carrier groups are both mil-spec so there would be no difference. And if there was a differance, the Noveske would be better because they are a tier above BCM IMO. But there is nothing special about their BCGs vs Bravo Company's and vice versa. Go shoot it!
I would highly disagree that a simple term such as "mil spec" would denote no difference in quality b/t two said bcg's. This just isn't the case given how little "mil spec" means in today's world.
What is "mil spec" staking defined as....???
Last time I checked neither of these BCG's were being sold to the military like a colt or lmt.
The BCM is a better bcg than the Noveske in my book easily...that said, Noveske is a very reputable builder and their bcg's are certainly good enough to not warrant running out to get the koolaid BCG of the day.
No need to change it out, the one that came in it is very good. If you check around the forums, you aren't going to find issues with Noveske BCGs.
El Pistolero
05-18-11, 02:01
TRIDENT,
Regardless of whether Noveske and BCM are selling BCGs to the .mil, hat matters is that both Noveske and BCM are known to properly stake their gas keys, and the OP is just as well served by the Noveske BCG as he is with a BCM. But you have a valid point about mil-spec being vague sometimes
If people want that little BCM logo so everyone can see it they can buy just the carrier and use their existing bolt/FP/cam pin. Might as well get the BCM decal for your upper while you're at it. My BCM BCG doesn't even have the logo, it's almost 3 years old.
Eurodriver
05-18-11, 02:18
If people want that little BCM logo so everyone can see it they can buy just the carrier and use their existing bolt/FP/cam pin. Might as well get the BCM decal for your upper while you're at it. My BCM BCG doesn't even have the logo, it's almost 3 years old.
Not to derail the thread, but I was selling an upper a few months ago. I got a PM and the guy asked "If the upper is marked BCM, and you say it has a BCM bolt, why isn't BCM on the bolt?"
I tried to explain to no avail. Thats when I realized how important laser etching is to some people. He'd probably shit a brick if he knew I have a BCM UPPER with no "BCM" markings...:confused:
I think what the issue is here is that BCM has posted their specs and just about everyone knows what they get when they buy a BCM product. Noveske was known for using CMT bolts and the blue extractor inserts. I don't know what Noveske uses now and I'm sure Todd K. will chime in eventually. Is Noveske using quality parts? YES. Are the parts listed and explained as well as BCM? NO. This is where the issue lies.
TRIDENT,
Regardless of whether Noveske and BCM are selling BCGs to the .mil, hat matters is that both Noveske and BCM are known to properly stake their gas keys, and the OP is just as well served by the Noveske BCG as he is with a BCM. But you have a valid point about mil-spec being vague sometimes
If people want that little BCM logo so everyone can see it they can buy just the carrier and use their existing bolt/FP/cam pin. Might as well get the BCM decal for your upper while you're at it. My BCM BCG doesn't even have the logo, it's almost 3 years old.
I wasn't trying to come across as busting balls...but rather just express the mil spec aspect. Folks might read that and run way to far with it as many do until that get a full idea of what that terms really means or imho, doesn't mean.
Here is a thread that might interest some since it's dealing w/ this whole premise of "the best" bcg.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=76465
eta...easily the worst thing about the BCM bcg's are those laser etched logo's, i honestly hate them and if BCM is just using them for product integrity and proofing, then do it somewhere else and much smaller.
@OP,
You're good to go with what you have now.
Stay with the Noveske, it's good to go. No need to spend money on something you don't need.
wetidlerjr
05-18-11, 05:24
...If people want that little BCM logo so everyone can see it they can buy just the carrier and use their existing bolt/FP/cam pin...
Even that won't work as BCM carriers bought separately don't have "BCM" on them. :D
yes swap it out, when it breaks, after 10-15 thousand rounds. BCM are good, but so are colt, LMT and others.
In my opinion, get a spare of any of these "milspec"
justin_247
05-18-11, 07:32
... I'm still not understanding what's wrong with the Noveske BCG. Are you concerned that the bolt was only HP-tested in batches? If so, then just get an HP/MP bolt from LMT, BCM, Colt, or DD and call it good - otherwise, I say just shoot the crap out of it until you *need* to replace it.
Much of this has already been discussed:
https://www.m4carbine.net/archive/index.php/t-18450.html
justin_247
05-18-11, 07:36
More info here... the bolt is probably fine, especially if it's an FN bolt.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=14770
From my understanding, the older TDP required that EVERY bolt and barrel had to be MP tested (after it was HP tested). The newer (revised TDP) apparently allows for batch MP testing.
To be brutally honest, the HPT/MP thing is really outdated. There are much better ways to check steel these days (like Xraying it).
C4
No, but I am pretty sure I know where. It is the same place the FN buys their bolts from. The company also holds the current USGI contract for small parts.
C4
Whatever the hell BCM has done to absolutely corner the BCG market is incredible. Either the koolaid is extra sweet or people care way too much about having that ejection port cover open during internet photoshoots.
I have personally seen guys (more than 2) buy a brand new 6920 and sell the Colt BCG for $100 in order to justify a BCM BCG purchase. :ph34r:
(Hint: I have 3 spare Colt BCGs)
Spot on observation - and the fact that the OP has even posted this up is testament to this. And fair play to BCM - their stuff is great quality, and their marketing and business sense is obviously second to none; they've worked hard to get themselves into the position they are in, in a short time. To have people with perfectly sound equally top quality parts questioning whether they should change them to BCM parts is a truly astonishing feat.
Whatever the hell BCM has done to absolutely corner the BCG market is incredible. Either the koolaid is extra sweet or people care way too much about having that ejection port cover open during internet photoshoots.
Not BCM's fault. Guns just attract retards.
Conversely... you have tards over on BARFtard who were complaining about the BCM logo on the carrier.... and wouldn't buy one for that reason.
It's amazing that any of the dealers/manufacturers can keep their sanity with all the ****tards they have to deal with.
polydeuces
05-18-11, 09:27
Here's something i've been looking at very carefully (as in "shutting up and paying attention"):
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=81215
imho one of the most fascinating and educational threads on this forum.
Ok, maybe I should clarify. I built a Diplomat upper and it's currently sporting the BCM.
I purchased a new Infidel.
I'm selling the Diplomat upper and would simply like to know if I'm better off keeping the BCM and selling the Diplomat with the Noveske BCG or vice versa.
I'm keeping the Infidel. I just want to know which BCG will serve me better.
I am glad to see the response this thread has illicited. Justin247 thanks for the links. Thanks to everyone else for wieghing in.
jonconsiglio
05-18-11, 10:53
BCG - There's absolutely no need to change out the carriers, both are f/a carriers to the same specs and quality. The gas key staking is properly done on both, so don't concern yourself with that.
BOLTS - Not sure if it has changed or not, and if it hasn't still wouldn't be an issue for me as they're proven bolts, but a couple years ago Noveske was not using the black insert (no big deal, just buy one if you feel the need) and even though they were magnetic particle inspecting every bolt, they were batch high pressure testing their bolts. Does this matter to you? Only you can decide. I won't stop using a Noveske bolt because of this if it's still the case, though I may buy the black extractor insert.
So, to simplify it, the only difference with the Noveske BOLT (not BCG) is, or was, the blue insert and the batch HPT, there's no differences with the carriers.
I would not buy a new bolt or carrier as a replacement for any of these reasons. I had probably 5 or 6 thousand rounds through my Noveske before I sold the upper. Those rounds were in a relatively short period of time as well, about 4 months or so and all was fine.
It's easy to get caught up in these things. Remember too, mil spec is a minimum and just because something isn't mil spec doesn't mean it's not proven and reliable. I'm talking in general here, not about Noveske's testing of their bolts.
Jonathan
jonconsiglio
05-18-11, 10:58
Ok, maybe I should clarify. I built a Diplomat upper and it's currently sporting the BCM.
I purchased a new Infidel.
I'm selling the Diplomat upper and would simply like to know if I'm better off keeping the BCM and selling the Diplomat with the Noveske BCG or vice versa.
I'm keeping the Infidel. I just want to know which BCG will serve me better.
I am glad to see the response this thread has illicited. Justin247 thanks for the links. Thanks to everyone else for wieghing in.
I'd imagine most people would keep the one with less rounds on it. I'd probably just leave it as it is. At most, switch the bolts but keep the carriers as they came if it makes you feel better, but be sure to tell the buyer it has the Noveske bolt instead of the BCM.
I'd leave it alone as bolts are $70 at most (except for these damn e3's which I have only one spare right now as they're around $350!) and I always have at least teo extras at any given time. They're one of those parts that you should expect to break and need replaced at some point.
Try not to over think these things in the future. I'd imagine most of us have been here with gear in one way or another and it's easy to make a much bigger deal of it than need be.
Good luck with the sale...
PrivateCitizen
05-18-11, 11:01
Are we really discussing replacing a Noveske part that hasn't even exhibited a problem?
Honestly fellas …
PrivateCitizen
05-18-11, 11:04
Ok, maybe I should clarify. I built a Diplomat upper and it's currently sporting the BCM.
I purchased a new Infidel.
I'm selling the Diplomat upper and would simply like to know if I'm better off keeping the BCM and selling the Diplomat with the Noveske BCG or vice versa.
I'm keeping the Infidel. I just want to know which BCG will serve me better.
I am glad to see the response this thread has illicited. Justin247 thanks for the links. Thanks to everyone else for wieghing in.
Sorry, I just read this last one. That at least clarifies the question. You'd be be fine with either. If you want to keep the BCM you wouldn't be screwing anyone by selling it with the Noveske OEM.
Cincinnatus
05-18-11, 11:05
Noveske is GTG; this shouldn't even be an issue or a doubt.
All you might want to get to have on hand as an extra is an extra bolt, and even that you'll likely not need for thousands and thousands of rounds (as long as you do PM, like replacing gas rings at proper intervals and use adequate lube).
OP, you need not worry; your Noveske BCG is tier 1.
The BCM is a better bcg than the Noveske in my book easily...
I'm seriously interested in why it's "easily" better. Is it the batch testing?
jonconsiglio
05-18-11, 11:15
I'm seriously interested in why it's "easily" better. Is it the batch testing?
I'm interested as well as the only difference is the bolt, in a small way. Actually, aside from the BCM marking, there should be no visible difference.
Ok, maybe I should clarify. I built a Diplomat upper and it's currently sporting the BCM.
I purchased a new Infidel.
I'm selling the Diplomat upper and would simply like to know if I'm better off keeping the BCM and selling the Diplomat with the Noveske BCG or vice versa.
I'm keeping the Infidel. I just want to know which BCG will serve me better.
I am glad to see the response this thread has illicited. Justin247 thanks for the links. Thanks to everyone else for wieghing in.
Not sure what your round count is on either setup, but it is generally considered best practice to keep bolts and barrels together.
Not sure what your round count is on either setup, but it is generally considered best practice to keep bolts and barrels together.
That would be my thought. Once you start using them, it's best to keep bolts and barrels together (given that both BCGs are roughly equal in quality.)
I would assume you bought the Noveske due to their great quality, i would also assume they wouldnt skimp on the BCG.
If its not broke, dont fix it.
Eurodriver
05-18-11, 14:49
Not BCM's fault. Guns just attract retards.
Conversely... you have tards over on BARFtard who were complaining about the BCM logo on the carrier.... and wouldn't buy one for that reason.
It's amazing that any of the dealers/manufacturers can keep their sanity with all the ****tards they have to deal with.
No arguement here, any gun show visit will testify to that. It must be guns, not just any hobby because I'm big with Jeep and Mercedes "clubs" in person and online. I have never seen the fanboy nonsense or the sheer ridiculousness there that I see daily on firearms related sites.
Still, you can't take away that BCM is running the BCG market. If Colt started selling NIB BCGs for $99, BCM would still be recommended.
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