View Full Version : M&P 9 FS - thumb safety or no thumb safety?
That's the question, folks - I want your thoughts. My buy will be M&P 9 full size 4.25" barrel. What are your thoughts on whether to get one WITH a thumb safety or WITHOUT a thumb safety? Whatever you answer, what is your reasoning?
NeoNeanderthal
05-20-11, 09:27
If your not sure (thats what it sounds like to me) get it WITH the thumb safety. Try it out, if you dont like it you can remove it.
If you get it without the safety and change your mind your screwed!
This question is asked pretty often here. I opted for my M&P9 and 9c without the thumb safeties and I'm glad I did. I've never felt the need for them.
Whiskey_Bravo
05-20-11, 11:03
If you aren't sure get it with the safety as you can easily take it off if you decide you don't like it. You can not put a thumb safety on one that you purchased with out.
on this site will most probably lean towards no safety. Try both and see how they fit into your training background and experience. While I think Glocks are one of the best fighting pistols out there - and I have two RTF2 Gen 3 G17s - I just can't get over the lack of a safety. Yes - I know what Glock says about them actually having safeties, but I'm talking an honest-to-goodness affirmative safety. As I live in Illinois, much of this is a moot point as far as CC goes:(
Personally - I absolutelly LOVE the safety on the M&P - but I have 40+ years of 1911 shooting behind me. Two things would make it a perfect pistol for me. First - if I could get it to feed 147 gr rounds. Second - if I could get the factory "rough" surface like the Glocks. (Most of the aftermarket texturing jobs don't do it for me - but that's just a personal preference.)
As the 2nd poster mentioned - if you get one with the safety, you can always take it off and plug it.
john
This question is asked pretty often here. I opted for my M&P9 and 9c without the thumb safeties and I'm glad I did. I've never felt the need for them.
I went the same route. I personally don't feel the need for a thumb safety on this handgun. However...
If you aren't sure get it with the safety as you can easily take it off if you decide you don't like it. You can not put a thumb safety on one that you purchased with out.
I do agree with those that have stated if you're unsure pick it up with the thumb safety. If it turns out you don't like it either leave the safety in the "off" position or trade in the gun for one without it. I would not remove or disable a safety on a defensive weapon.
I originally purchased my M&P45 with the thumb safety. After shooting it for some time, I realized when riding the safety 1911 style it caused my shooting hand grip to open up and loose contact with the "tang" area of the frame regardless of which insert I was running. I removed the safety and my grip and shot to shot recovery time improved immediately.
steve.sellers
05-20-11, 11:39
I bought my M&P45 and M&P9 with thumb-safeties for consistency among all of my handguns, including the 1911. It doesn't slow me down, and I like having a shelf for my thumb - especially when shooting weak-hand. It's an additional margin of safety without any drawbacks that I've observed in my own use of the system.
You will enjoy the M&P9.
ss
That's the question, folks - I want your thoughts. My buy will be M&P 9 full size 4.25" barrel. What are your thoughts on whether to get one WITH a thumb safety or WITHOUT a thumb safety? Whatever you answer, what is your reasoning?
What is your shooting background? Is this your first semi auto pistol? Are you a Glock shooter? Did you cut your teeth on a 1911? Are you a revolver shooter?
If you are a 1911 shooter then get a thumb safety. If your a Glock shooter, don't get the thumb safety. If you are a revolver shooter, don't get the safety.
One thing to keep in mind is, if you purchase the thumb safety and later have it removed and have to use this gun in a self defense situation and it goes to the grand jury or trial, the question of why YOU removed a safety WILL be asked. But this discussion is for a different thread.
Until that day,
Darkop
No thumb safety for me even though the only auto pistol I've owned previously is a 1911.
Thanks to modern designs like the Glock and M&P I no longer feel that the thumb safety is necessary or desirable for my needs. I like the simple, straight forward design of the M&P and Glocks and chose the M&P because it fit me better.
titsonritz
05-20-11, 17:54
The only reason I can see for buying a pistol with any type of manual safety would be if it is mandated by a dept. or company policy.
Manual safeties are just one more thing to deal with under stress and are not truly necessary. I’ll stick with the draw and shoot designs.
I have arrived at my decision. Here's my rationale:
My deer rifle had a thumb safety that was engaged until I was ready to shoot. My over/under shotgun also had a thumb safety on the tang that I was conditioned to slide off just as the gun was coming up for a shot - and in the woods and brush of Vermont, those shots had to be fast. Those guns were NOT carried in a holster, and there always was the possibility for an accidental discharge - meaning, other than when the weapon is intended to be in use for its specific purpose, hitting the game and bringing dinner home. An accidental discharge could harm or kill another hunter or innocent bystander.
That said, I am seeing a distict difference in this case. The pistol will be carried concealed IN A HOLSTER either IWB or OWB depending on clothing and circumstances at 3:30 more or less [never AIWB] for self defense. It will be in the holster for carry or in the hand when it's needed for its intended purpose - self defense. In the holster, the internal safety devices simply do not allow the gun to discharge, because that would require the trigger to be pulled completely back. In my hand for self defense a thumb safety is one more thing that just might mess up my presentation and firing of the pistol - scary, considering the need would be to stop a BG and save my own life or the life of another innocent person. Also, some good stuff than can be done to the inyards of an M&P would be curtailed in part in the TS version. Therefore, I have just convinced myself that it is in my own best interests to get the M&P9 FS WITHOUT the TS. Thanks for all of your input. It has been thought provoking and helped get me to my conclusion.
If anyone can show a clear and distinct desirable physical result of having the thumb safety [other than rule or regulation] I'm more than willing to open myself up to further consideration. I've just never heard of one that would not be accomplished just as well by the shooter.
I haven't had a pistol with a decocker/thumbsafety since I left active duty and haven't missed one since.
NeoNeanderthal
05-20-11, 19:33
I think your on the right track. The reason people like the thumb safeties is if they are comming off a 1911 or Berreta or something like that. If your new to handguns, your right, the M&P doesnt need an external manual safety.
None of my revolvers have ever needed a safety, why would a modern striker-fired pistol need one?
acaixguard
05-20-11, 21:10
Just curious, but how many 1911 fans chose to shoot the M&P without a thumb safety. I shoot mostly 1911s, but I also shoot a Glock without worrying about the lack of a thumb safety. I'm going to get an M&P soon cause after shooting one, I prefer it over the Glock. I'm on the fence about which one to get.
Also, is it possible to get the thumb safety WITHOUT a magazine safety?
I strongly prefer having a manual safety on a pistol that is used for uniformed LE use; I have twice seen officers' lives potentially saved when another person gained control of an officer's pistol, but the engaged manual safety prevented the weapon from firing--I don't like to think about the outcome if the pistols involved had been a Glock, Sig, XD, revolver, etc... Likewise, if you plan on carrying AIWB, a manual safety may prove to be a prudent item to use. Finally, as noted above, if you are coming from a 1911 background, you may find the M&P safety to feel very familiar. I firmly believe that the manual safety is one of the major advantages the M&P has over Glock...
Rosco Benson
05-21-11, 08:22
I bought the first full-size M&P 45 w/thumb safety I saw offered for sale. Being habituated to a 1911, I really liked the idea of having the thumb safety. I tried to like the S&W's thumb safety, but it is just too high to be comfortable when shooting with one's thumb atop it.
I removed mine and this improved my grip and my shooting results greatly. I still like the concept of having a thumb safety though. Maybe someone (Apex?) might decide to make a safety that drops the pad lower and perhaps just a bit farther forward. I would prefer a non-ambi unit as well.
The safety is very easy to remove though. So, if one is undecided, it would probably be wise to get the pistol with the safety. Keep it if it works for you or yank it out if it doesn't.
Rosco
I strongly prefer having a manual safety on a pistol that is used for uniformed LE use; I have twice seen officers' lives potentially saved when another person gained control of an officer's pistol, but the engaged manual safety prevented the weapon from firing--I don't like to think about the outcome if the pistols involved had been a Glock, Sig, XD, revolver, etc... Likewise, if you plan on carrying AIWB, a manual safety may prove to be a prudent item to use. Finally, as noted above, if you are coming from a 1911 background, you may find the M&P safety to feel very familiar. I firmly believe that the manual safety is one of the major advantages the M&P has over Glock...
A permitted non-LE citizen is in a different position entirely. The LEO may be trying to arrest a subject or to hold the subject at bay. Not so a permitted non-LE citizen. By law [in Florida], the weapon must be holstered and out of sight except when be used for its intended purpose - self defense. It is either in the holster or in the hand. When in the hand it is used to shoot to stop.
A permitted non-LE citizen is in a different position entirely. The LEO may be trying to arrest a subject or to hold the subject at bay. Not so a permitted non-LE citizen. By law [in Florida], the weapon must be holstered and out of sight except when be used for its intended purpose - self defense. It is either in the holster or in the hand. When in the hand it is used to shoot to stop.
No their not!
It's clear that you wish to express disagreement, Darkop - but could you please expand on that so we can understand what you're getting at?
Here's a really articulate post on Pistol Training Forum by DocGKR, and I'd like to see replies to it:
"Imagine being mugged, hit over the head, and stunned; bad guy pulls out your pistol, but does not remove safety and so pistol fails to go off as he sits there squeezing the trigger...I personally saw this happen to someone.
"You are at home and set your pistol down for a brief moment as you begin to change and your child who was hiding reaches up and grabs it....I personally have seen this occur once as well.
"You are carrying IWB and your jacket zipper catches on the trigger as your attention wonders a brief second while re-holstering after a stressful encounter--boom...I have seen this happen to someone as well. This can be particularly tragic with AIWB..., [when a zipper catches on a trigger]"
Rosco Benson
05-22-11, 08:41
Here's a really articulate post on Pistol Training Forum by DocGKR, and I'd like to see replies to it:
"Imagine being mugged, hit over the head, and stunned; bad guy pulls out your pistol, (snip)
Good points all. A safety that can be disengaged with no loss of speed and reliability of one's presentation or effectiveness of one's shooting is a good thing (think 1911). A safety that compromises these aspects must be evaluated as a trade-off. Ayoob recommended carrying the S&W DA/SA autos (4506, etc) with the decocker/safety engaged. This required one to execute an unnatural and less reliable upward flick of the "safety" during the presentation. With such a "safety" engaged, one might be better off in the situations described by DocGKR, but might well be worse off in the primary situation for which the pistol is useful--that is responding quickly to an unexpected attack.
Situations differ and no "one size fits all" solution exists. I was involved in one situation wherein a level III security holster probably kept three good guys (one being me) from being shot. However, the extra time needed to deal with this level of proprietary "unlatching" of the pistol is probably counterproductive in the majority of situations where presenting the pistol is required.
The S&W M&P, that is the subject of this post, can be had with a thumb safety that is not a complete disaster. For my hand, it is pretty well placed to disengage during the presentation (not as good as a 1911's, but okay). For me, the issue is that my shooting grip is compromised and uncomfortable if I keep my thumb atop the S&W's safety and both speed and accuracy are diminished.
Perhaps the best answer is to eschew such "close but no cigar" pistols and just stick with the 1911. However, some users don't have that choice and others, who are serious students of weaponcraft, are driven to try out the newer designs in order to advance their knowledge of same.
Rosco
Mr. Benson, you have cred because, like the person I was quoting, you yourself were - and I gather, still are - personally involved in real situations testing these theories. Your post appears to be "damning by faint praise," as the saying goes. Having read your post, I'm remaining inclined to have the M&P9 without the thumb safety.
Your input is appreciated.
Rosco Benson
05-22-11, 17:52
Your post appears to be "damning by faint praise," as the saying goes. Having read your post, I'm remaining inclined to have the M&P9 without the thumb safety.
Your input is appreciated.
Bear in mind that I like the M&P pistols very much. The thumb safety doesn't work for my hand and grip. It might for yours. Hands differ. I really wish it worked for me.
I still think the best approach is to try an M&P with the thumb safety. It is a worthwhile addition to a fine pistol if it works for your hand. If you cannot arrange to get some trigger time with a thumb safety equipped M&P as a rental gun or borrowed from a friend, then the smart move is to get the pistol with the thumb safety. It is easy to remove. It is not so easy to add.
Rosco
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