MORE Tust questions

[akfirecop]

I know I need to seek professional legal counsel, however, I have a few basic questions on this:

I am going to set up a trust (either through JAG, or willmaker) and put myself and my wife as trustees.

I plan on SBRing a lower or two, and getting a can or two...cant afford the full auto yet.

My questions are this:
I am currently in Afghanistan, and want to buy a couple of rifles. These rifles will have to go to a FFL. Can the rifles (SBRd or not) be transfered to the trust? I say this because my wife will have to pick them up, but I dont want there to be a "straw purchase" issue or any other BS that comes up...im thinking I can send the wife in to pick them up, and have them transferred to the trust, of which she is a trustee...should be no problem, right?

Or would it be easier to just have the items sent for her, as opposed to me, since I am currently overseas?

TO me it makes no difference in this case, however, I want to be 110% legal in these dealings.

Is it very wise to place anything other than NFA items in the trust, such as normal guns, or say vehicles?

Also, does the trust circumvent the need for a background check? ( I assume that is required for the traditional way of buying a class 3 item?) I dont see how, but then again, if anyone can be a trustee, whats the point? This is more of a "HMMM..." question than anything else...

Thanks for your time and insight.
-Casey

[Chief_Wiggum]

Hi Casey,

Here's what I understand about the trust:

- You don't transfer the guns to the trust. You would do the FFL transfer to an individual just like a normal purchase. Your wife would be the purchaser and she would fill out the paperwork, go through the background check, etc. Depending on your state and your trust, you would then add the rifles to the trust. Once you do that and it's legal, the guns are now owned by the trust.

- I don't put any other property in my trust. Your situation may be different.

- Not sure about the background check, but definately no fingerprints required.

[flatlander]

Ditto what Chief said.

As an employee of an SOT/FFL, we have the person from the trust picking up the NFA device to complete the standard 4473. That is the person which has the background check run.

I can tell you that some of the few trust I have seen people have their entire gun collections on.



Todd

[Neckbreaker]

I have done multiple NFA transfers using a trust. If your wife will be a co-trustee, she can full powers to act on the behalf of the trust just as you do. There is no issue of a straw purchase. She would merely sign as a trustee on the form 1 or 4 (whichever you are doing). Chief Wiggum is incorrect, all property in the trust (known as the corpus or body of the trust) is transferred into the trust via a document called an assignment of property. That property is then added to the Trust's schedule A and this is sent to the BATFE along with a copy of your trust. Your wife has complete authority to do this because she is a co-trustee. She has all of the same powers as you do and she has full access to the corpus of the trust just like you do. The BATFE now requires the Schedule A to be sent in with your other paperwork to verify that the NFA item is now part of the trust. This is a relatively new development.

[Chief_Wiggum]

Chief Wiggum is incorrect, all property in the trust (known as the corpus or body of the trust) is transferred into the trust via a document called an assignment of property. That property is then added to the Trust's schedule A and this is sent to the BATFE along with a copy of your trust. Your wife has complete authority to do this because she is a co-trustee. She has all of the same powers as you do and she has full access to the corpus of the trust just like you do. The BATFE now requires the Schedule A to be sent in with your other paperwork to verify that the NFA item is now part of the trust. This is a relatively new development.

I should have been more clear. You don't transfer the guns to the trust via an FFL. You transfer them into the trust using whatever means your state accepts as legal. We usually think of a "transfer" as shipping a firearm from one person to another interstate using an FFL.

[davemcdonald]

. The BATFE now requires the Schedule A to be sent in with your other paperwork to verify that the NFA item is now part of the trust. This is a relatively new development.


Neckbreaker
How does this work? I am under the impression that you can't transfer the weapon or add it to you Schedule A until you receive your stamp. If you send in your Scedule A with your app then it will be blank. The NFA weapon would be added to the Schedule A after the fact.
I'm not trying to be a jacka$$. This is an honest question.

Dave

[Chief_Wiggum]

Neckbreaker
How does this work? I am under the impression that you can't transfer the weapon or add it to you Schedule A until you receive your stamp. If you send in your Scedule A with your app then it will be blank. The NFA weapon would be added to the Schedule A after the fact.
I'm not trying to be a jacka$$. This is an honest question.

Dave

That wouldn't make much sense, since the firearms must be owned by the trust before you send your paperwork to the ATF. If you add the firearm after you've gotten your stamp back, have have incorrectly told the ATF the firearm was owned by the trust.

The proper steps would be:

- purchase the firearm, submit to the background check, transfer the gun via an FFL. It now belongs to you.
- setup the trust and make it legal.
- transfer the gun to the trust. This means add it to your Schedule A.
- the gun now belongs to the trust
- complete the Form 1, 4, whatever and send it off to the ATF.

As was noted, the ATF is apparently now asking for the Schedule A. I just sent in my whole trust document along with the propery schedule. The first Form 1 I sent, I just included the Cert. of Trust and was approved, but I guess the ATF is wanting to check that you have a legitimate trust setup now.