View Full Version : Daniel Defense DDM4 Torture Test
I just watched LAV do the torture test on the Daniel Defense rifle at www.danieldefense.com . Among other things, I was very impressed with the amount of abuse the Aimpoint RDS, DD Aimpoint mount, and the aluminum mag could take and still function.
SpaceWrangler
05-21-11, 11:08
Dammitboy! :eek:
That was incredible. I was impressed with the T1 as well. That thing got freakin' destroyed and it still worked:eek:. And all it suffered was a slight zero shift after being dropped by a ****ing helicopter?!! I'm sold. I was actually thinking of making my next carbine purchase a DD M4 v3. This just sealed the deal for when I finally get the opportunity.
My guess is any weapon built to standard would pass the test (Colt, BCM, FN, ect..) but I was most impressed with the optic and rails.
I would have like to have seen LAV go to the BUIS when the RDS went down to see how well they held up.
I'd like to see an Oly or DPMS with a cheap RD stand up to the same run...:jester:
I've sent the link to few friends.
.
Clobbersauras
05-21-11, 11:55
I would have like to have seen LAV go to the BUIS when the RDS went down to see how well they held up.
He couldn't use the BUIS. The RDS lens was smashed, obscuring them.
Kinda shows a little problem with the DD Aimpoint mount. If the optic gets smashed like in the video, your back up sights are useless unless you can easily remove the Aimpoint mount.
The DD mount isn't quick detach. I run a DD Aimpoint mount, but never considered a smashed lens issue.
Beat Trash
05-21-11, 11:56
I also feel that a well built AR such as a Colt or a BCM could have survived just as well. I do not mean to put down the DD product. Quite the opposite. I'd be curious to see how well a DPMS would have faired.
I was amazed at how well the Aimpoint T-1 did. When the gun was dropped onto the gravel and ran over, you could see the gun landing on the Aimpoint. That surprised me that the optic still functioned and that it still had retained it's zero.
When they were a little liberal with their use of explosive and created a larger blast than anticipated, I was expecting to see gun parts here and there. Amazing... And the optic still retained it's zero!
polymorpheous
05-21-11, 12:06
I've sent the link to few friends.
I just did the same.
Unbelievable!
My guess is any weapon built to standard would pass the test (Colt, BCM, FN, ect..) but I was most impressed with the optic and rails.
I would have like to have seen LAV go to the BUIS when the RDS went down to see how well they held up.
I'd like to see an Oly or DPMS with a cheap RD stand up to the same run...:jester:
I've sent the link to few friends.
.
Yes, it would have been interesting to see if the BUIS held zero. I also wonder how well rail mounted front sights, flip-ups and fixed ones would have held zero and/or survived the tests . You could see how a QD Aimpoint mount might have been nice to have to be able to use the BUIS when the Aimpoint lost zero " but" would it have survived ?
Congrats to DD! But, is their anything significant to the materials they use & manufacturing of thier rifles as compared to another quality manufacturer that make them tougher? Is it safe to assume that a Colt, Sabre, BCM would score as well?
Great for the DD, but....I think this video just sold a lot of Aimpoints!
Wow.
Congrats to DD! But, is their anything significant to the materials they use & manufacturing of thier rifles as compared to another quality manufacturer that make them tougher? Is it safe to assume that a Colt, Sabre, BCM would score as well?
I use Daniel Defense products but IMHO any top tier rifle/rail setup the same way would probably fare the same. I believe a lot just depends on how the rifle lands as to the damage it suffers. I wonder how a P-Mag or the new Lancer AWM mag would have fared ?
I agree with most of the above responses, as far as I know DD doesnt do anything different than the other "mil-spec" manufacturers like BCM,Colt,LMT,ect.. So whats so special about that torture test? Unless they are just showing you how tuff the rails are.
So whats so special about that torture test?
Its a video that is going to impress a segment of the market. Personally, I would like to have seen if the irons were still zeroed as that would have answered questions about the rail.
The weakest points in the system would have been the stock, VFG, and magazine in addition to the Aimpoint. It speaks well of Magpul, Aimpoint, and whoever does the molding for Daniel Defense with their VFG.
It was a pretty impressive test. I think that it is an example of the durability of the AR15 platform (when made correctly) a testament to the strength of Daniel Defense's rails and Aimpoint's red dots.
Cameron
The magazine was not a Magpul mag, which was kind of interesting, I thought, since DD supplies Pmags with their rifles when they ship them.
Honestly, I was most amazed by the Aimpoint, than the rifle.
I own a DD.
I agree with others that I would have liked to see the BUS and a PMag put to use, but it was still very impressive IMO. The Aimpoint was just as impressive as the rifle itself.
Its an awesome video, and it makes me feel good that my T-1 has a QD feature.
While there are parts that are what I would consider a torture test, to be honest I was overall wholly unimpressed. Burying a gun in dirt for 30 minutes, or dunking it in water for a short period of time with the muzzle taped up is not torture. Those tests are lame and worthless.
Dropping it 6 feet or onto the road and driving over it is also lame. Shooting it with birdshot, lame.
The only good test was the explosion.
I'm willing to bet that a Marlin lever action could take the same level of abuse.
Some good tests would be to leave the dust cover open and leave it in the desert for a month. Leave it in a muddy bog for a week or two. Shoot it with buckshot (not birdshot which Cheney shot someone with in the face and lived). Explode a pipe bomb next to it with some schrapnel. Drop it from a helicopter onto cement.
That would be a test that would induce failure. That's my thoughts, overall unimpressed.
polymorpheous
05-21-11, 14:55
While there are parts that are what I would consider a torture test, to be honest I was overall wholly unimpressed. Burying a gun in dirt for 30 minutes, or dunking it in water for a short period of time with the muzzle taped up is not torture. Those tests are lame and worthless.
Dropping it 6 feet or onto the road and driving over it is also lame. Shooting it with birdshot, lame.
The only good test was the explosion.
I'm willing to bet that a Marlin lever action could take the same level of abuse.
Some good tests would be to leave the dust cover open and leave it in the desert for a month. Leave it in a muddy bog for a week or two. Shoot it with buckshot (not birdshot which Cheney shot someone with in the face and lived). Explode a pipe bomb next to it with some schrapnel. Drop it from a helicopter onto cement.
That would be a test that would induce failure. That's my thoughts, overall unimpressed.
You completely failed to understand what they were trying to simulate here.
They even stated so in the beginning of the video.
All of the tests were very real combat possibilities. (Aside from the bird shot, which was intended to simulate shrapnel.)
Buried in a bog for 2 weeks is not.
Some good tests would be to leave the dust cover open and leave it in the desert for a month. Leave it in a muddy bog for a week or two. Shoot it with buckshot (not birdshot which Cheney shot someone with in the face and lived). Explode a pipe bomb next to it with some schrapnel. Drop it from a helicopter onto cement.
That would be a test that would induce failure. That's my thoughts, overall unimpressed.
Leave it in the desert for a month? Water for a week? The point was not to destroy the carbine, we could all to that in 30 seconds bashing it against anything hard, the point was to simulate harsh conditions.
I think you may have sailed past the point on this one.
Cameron
The point was to torture a gun and prove it still works. The guns being used overseas aren't in the dirt for 30 minutes, they're there for months or years. Sure they get cleaned but this is about taking this to the extreme and torturing them, so what happens to a gun for that time without upkeep.
And this platform has been around long before we were fighting in the desert, at a time we were fighting in a jungle. So a torture test of those conditions is relevant. Also these guns are being sold to people who live in all sorts of environments. So I haven't sailed past the point on this one.
The point was to torture the gun. So torture it with whatever you can bring.
The only part I was impressed with was the Aimpoint which I already knew was capable of serious abuse.
polymorpheous
05-21-11, 16:38
The point was to torture the gun. So torture it with whatever you can bring.
The point was to simulate probable combat "torture".
Any grunt worth their salt will clean and maintain their weapon on their off time.
We get it though, you're a hard person too impress.:jester:
Fascinating video to say the least.
What a totally stupid and pointless video.
They did not strap it to a small nuclear device and set it off.
The other stuff was just for weenies.
:dance3:
Makes me proud to be from Savannah.
I have a friend who's on the fence for a DDM4. I sent him the link.
Great test. I was particularly impressed with the explosion and its effect (or the lack there of) on the Aimpoint.
Aimpoints have come a long way. I remember when they were a novelty item and of what we now call "airsoft" quality. I no longer have any doubts about Aimpoint.
Regardless if the tests are actual torture or not, none are what I'd deliberately subject my weapon to
Their next torture test should be to hang all types of useless shit off of it, load it with some weak or overloaded handloads, and give it to some bubba to run mallninja drills. Just sayin'.
Impressive video. The Aimpoint was rock solid. I wonder how an ACOG would handle the same type of tests.
BluegrassGunGuy
05-21-11, 18:09
The point was to torture a gun and prove it still works. The guns being used overseas aren't in the dirt for 30 minutes, they're there for months or years. Sure they get cleaned but this is about taking this to the extreme and torturing them, so what happens to a gun for that time without upkeep.
And this platform has been around long before we were fighting in the desert, at a time we were fighting in a jungle. So a torture test of those conditions is relevant. Also these guns are being sold to people who live in all sorts of environments. So I haven't sailed past the point on this one.
The point was to torture the gun. So torture it with whatever you can bring.
The only part I was impressed with was the Aimpoint which I already knew was capable of serious abuse.
He stated after the water test that the dirt and water were easy tests to pass. He only did it to show you what other people would do in similar tests and then call it a day so, that you would know how much further they were taking their test than everyone else.
As others have already said it was to simulate combat conditions, no soldier is going to leave there gun in the desert for 30 days, yes they are in the desert for longer but they do clean them. They also will not leave it in water for a week, yes they can be in jungle environments for a long time but again they will clean them.
Maybe they they should have called it a combat simulation test and not a torture test because you seem to be hung up on the word torture.
Made me proud to own 2, both with aimpoints. I don't need any more DD's but I'm considering buying another aimpoint now.
polymorpheous
05-21-11, 18:24
My main rig has a DD CHF barrel and a DD Omega.
Love their stuff.
I would like a complete M4v1 carbine, or better yet, the Vickers carbine and call it a day.
I think they are both a super slick set-ups.
Alas, I have no monies!:(
That made me want to buy a T-1...
jmlshooter
05-21-11, 19:07
That made me want to buy a T-1...
Plus uno.
bullittmcqueen
05-21-11, 19:37
+1 That should be labeled as an Aimpoint advertisement foremost and DD 2nd.
jonconsiglio
05-21-11, 20:31
I was hesitant to sell my my M4 and M3 when I went to the T1's as I just wasn't sure if they were as durable as the larger models. This was reassuring and it's eased that tiny bit of concern. I wasn't worried I'd break all my smaller Aimpoints, but I was concerned that taking a hard hit would shift the zero.
I've always had confidence in my Aimpoints, this just seals it for me with the micro line.
That drop from the Bell 206 was nice. I've heard an Army .38 Special will survive the same fall from an OH-58. ;)
good test. LAV is cracking me up with his lunch comments.
I also own a DDM4 ;)
Heavy Metal
05-21-11, 21:16
I assume the Southern Thunder was a brand of Tannerite.
BTW Cool vid Larry!
I assume the Southern Thunder was a brand of Tannerite.
BTW Cool vid Larry!
Southern Thunder is not affiliated with Tannerite in any way. ST is made in NC and is a much superior product. I believe the rifle test was filmed in Chatham Co. NC.
Almost makes me wish the Eotech would just die :lol:
It is on a QD in the event it does happen.
Anyhow I like seeing guns being beat like this, no way I got the dough to do it myself.
jmlshooter
05-21-11, 23:02
I hope everyone stayed tuned for Larry's "Holy F***" bomb when the carbine was dropped out of the helo.
Anyone else notice that at the 6ft drop test LAV's test fire starts with a taped muzzle, then the cut and after the cut there's no tape on the barrel at all? Obviously the same gun, but a bit odd to see that they would cut out him removing the tape for whatever reason.
I hope everyone stayed tuned for Larry's "Holy F***" bomb when the carbine was dropped out of the helo.
Yeah. My wife said, "What-the-hell are you laughing at over there?"
Jake Bauer
05-21-11, 23:45
Really good test. Im glad I own a DD.
So i read all yalls posts about what it was intended/not intended for, but I agree somewhat with the guy who said the water test was a little lame considering there was a cover over the barrel. I know it was for safety and stuff, but they would have blown me away if they tested it as if some soldier accidentally dropped his rifle (no barrel cover) into a body of water even for a few seconds. I remember an HK test for their 416 when it was just coming out where there was a guy who took a standard M4, submerged it completely underwater, brought it up and popped off a few rounds (blew out the mag and damaged the gas tube if i remember right).
I also thought they should have left the dust cover off on the dirt burial btw...
I also caught that the bottom of the mag blew out after the explosion test. They didnt really mention that. Not saying that a pmag wouldnt have done the same though.
But yeah ot was a very good test. Especially all the drops.
El Pistolero
05-21-11, 23:45
Is the 'Torture Test' finish available as a factory option? :p
I assume the Southern Thunder was a brand of Tannerite.
Southern Thunder is not affiliated with Tannerite in any way. ST is made in NC and is a much superior product.
That's a first I've heard of Southern Thunder. Found them here: http://downsouthammo.com/
Dirtyboy333
05-22-11, 00:03
I agree with most of the above responses, as far as I know DD doesnt do anything different than the other "mil-spec" manufacturers like BCM,Colt,LMT,ect.. So whats so special about that torture test? Unless they are just showing you how tuff the rails are.
Maybe So, but BCM, Colt etc. didnt do the test so they cant claim it passed. you can assume all ya want. DD took the risk (unless their liars). And yes, it does show that their rails are very strong especially considering how light they are. Whats wrong with that?
As previously stated, its a marketing video that shows how rugged a properly built AR can be and since it was a DD that was in video, DD will benefit (as well as AP).
The fact that they actually performed the test and made it viewable to all of us AR lovers is what makes it special. It also makes me proud to be a DD owner (even though i was already).
Dirtyboy333
05-22-11, 00:07
Really good test. Im glad I own a DD.
So i read all yalls posts about what it was intended/not intended for, but I agree somewhat with the guy who said the water test was a little lame considering there was a cover over the barrel. I know it was for safety and stuff, but they would have blown me away if they tested it as if some soldier accidentally dropped his rifle (no barrel cover) into a body of water even for a few seconds. I remember an HK test for their 416 when it was just coming out where there was a guy who took a standard M4, submerged it completely underwater, brought it up and popped off a few rounds (blew out the mag and damaged the gas tube if i remember right).
I also thought they should have left the dust cover off on the dirt burial btw...
I also caught that the bottom of the mag blew out after the explosion test. They didnt really mention that. Not saying that a pmag wouldnt have done the same though.
But yeah ot was a very good test. Especially all the drops.
If it was the same water test im thinking of it was a Colt and the mag blew out as well as the upper receiver exploding.
The guy doing the test was wearing a bomb proof mask or something. :p
Heavy Metal
05-22-11, 00:12
If it was the same water test im thinking of it was a Colt and the mag blew out as well as the upper receiver exploding.
The guy doing the test was wearing a bomb proof mask or something. :p
I remember that. He gave the M-4 less time to drain and kept the muzzle tipped-up a bit compared to the 416. It was fishy as hell. Not saying the 416 CHF heavy barrel wasn't stronger, I am sure it is, but is sure looked like they wanted to make sure the M-4 blew up and gamed the test a bit.
Dirtyboy333
05-22-11, 00:21
I remember that. He gave the M-4 less time to drain and kept the muzzle tipped-up a bit compared to the 416. It was fishy as hell. Not saying the 416 CHF heavy barrel wasn't stronger, I am sure it is, but is sure looked like they wanted to make sure the M-4 blew up and gamed the test a bit.
Yeah, IIRC they did. I'll have to find it on youtube again. The guy was in a creek of some sort.
Also, (maybe to dramatize) he didnt wear the helmet for the 416 but then they show him putting on a huge helmet and mask when its the Colts turn. I know he wanted to be safe but you would have figured he would have worn it for the 416 test also.
anyone else catch larry's ride? the black ops jeep!
i have the omega x 12in FSP on my shrubmaster and am quite fond of it. my next rifle will be a DD!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGwkHktkTxU
The Daniel Defense one lacked German house music.
Also, if you watch Tactical Arms, Larry Vickers did the same dirt test to a Double Star rifle.
thopkins22
05-22-11, 00:47
Personally, I would like to have seen if the irons were still zeroed as that would have answered questions about the rail.
I don't get this. What would it have proven about the rail?
They would have had to use a different version of the DDM4, or have put a zeroed laser or optic on the rail from the beginning. But then what part changed in relation to the others becomes a question that would be difficult to answer. Did the rail shift? Did the laser lose zero internally? Did the mount slip? The way the test was performed was adequate considering what they wanted to document.
The only thing to take away is that a high quality AR is tough as nails and that DD makes a high quality AR.
Dirtyboy333
05-22-11, 01:10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGwkHktkTxU
The Daniel Defense one lacked German house music.
Also, if you watch Tactical Arms, Larry Vickers did the same dirt test to a Double Star rifle.
REALLY!!! I also own a Doublestar hahaha
Yeah, I didn't put much weight on the dirt or water test. I think maybe they trying to debunk popular myths that AR's (in general) are "completely unreliable".
I don't have the sportsmans channel. Is there any other way to see that episode?
Maybe So, but BCM, Colt etc. didnt do the test so they cant claim it passed. you can assume all ya want. DD took the risk (unless their liars). And yes, it does show that their rails are very strong especially considering how light they are. Whats wrong with that?
As previously stated, its a marketing video that shows how rugged a properly built AR can be and since it was a DD that was in video, DD will benefit (as well as AP).
The fact that they actually performed the test and made it viewable to all of us AR lovers is what makes it special. It also makes me proud to be a DD owner (even though i was already).
Nothing wrong at all with some good marketing. They are a great company and I have nothing against them. But more than likely if you are buying DD you will probably be well educated when it comes to ARs. hypothetically speaking anyo ther mil-spec brand AR set up the same way will have the same results.
Tactical Arms Double Star test.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqba2JPrwoU
Dirtyboy333
05-22-11, 01:53
Tactical Arms Double Star test.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqba2JPrwoU
Thanks!!!
OTO27: I agree
Well i was saving up for a colt 6920 but i think im going to change that to a DD m4. Great test, reminds me of the glock torture test.
HOOYAH DD and Aimpoint. I liked and ran Aimpoint before, but dang. That's impressive.
Jordan
Anyone else notice that at the 6ft drop test LAV's test fire starts with a taped muzzle, then the cut and after the cut there's no tape on the barrel at all? Obviously the same gun, but a bit odd to see that they would cut out him removing the tape for whatever reason.
I'm gonna point out a couple of things in the hopes that some of you will correct me with a logical explanation. I noticed a lot of inconsistencies with that tape also, and not just in that scene. Reminds me of the end of Good Fellas when Karen and Henry are on the couch making a deal with the DA. Everytime they cut to Karen the seam of her dress is in a diff position. At the knee, half way down the leg, back at the knee, etc.
Why did they keep taping up the flash hider? At the start of every test there was new tape on the flash hider. I thought that was only for the water test. Maybe I missed something though, it's possible.
Also, the weapon looks dirty after they ran it over on dirt with the truck. He then shoots most of the tape off the flash hider, but then when they drop it off the back of the truck onto gravel the gun is completely clean and has new tape on it. Why is that? Is it because this is supposed to be diff single incidents that could happen in the field, and if that was the case, the soldier would have a clean gun to begin with? Maybe, but they should have kept the gun dirty to make things look more consistent and legit. What about the tape being new at the start of each test?
Someone more skeptical than me would say they had about half a dozen new guns ready, all with taped muzzles and used a diff one for each test. Except someone forgot to mention that the tape was only supposed to be on the water test gun. I know the broken glass on the aimpoint looks consistent on the remaining tests after they broke it. But someone more skeptical than me would say that was so obvious that they knew they had to move the broken aimpoint from each new gun with new tape, onto the next new gun with new tape.
The mag floor plate was blown off in the explosion too as someone else mentioned. But he just picked it up and fired off a few rds. But I know nothing about Pmags so I'll be the first to admit that there could be more there than meets the eye.
And of course we all know it would have sustained major damage if the 30 ft and heli drops were onto concrete. But that would have been the case with any weapon.
Here's another one. When they shoot it with birdshot, look at the video at about 3:47 or 3:48 right before the shot. The gun on the berm has no tape on the muzzle. Then, when they cut to the close up of the m4 getting pepered with birdshot, it has tape on the muzzle.
Also, it looks like a slug is coming out of the shotgun shortly after 3:47/3:48. I guess that could be all the birdshot in the wad. But why is it not spreading as it goes down range? I'm no expert on shotguns either. So someone who knows more than I do please let me know what u think. I think we can all agree that if it would have been a slug, the m4 would have been toast. But did they shoot a slug in that part of the scene just to make it more visible and more dramatic? If so, that could be considered inconsistent with a test where u are just trying to present honest tests as they happened to prove u have a superior product.
Don't get me wrong, I love my DD Omega rail, and I know they make top shelf guns and parts and accessories. The inconsistencies just look suspicious, that's all.
Here comes the hate mail!!!!!!
Well i was saving up for a colt 6920 but i think im going to change that to a DD m4. Great test, reminds me of the glock torture test.
The 6920 is a phenominal weapon bro. That would be a tough call for me.
Heavy Metal
05-22-11, 12:07
Why did they keep taping up the flash hider? At the start of every test there was new tape on the flash hider. I thought that was only for the water test. Maybe I missed something though, it's possible.
The tape wasn't to keep water out, it was to keep a plug of mud from getting into the barrel when Larry threw it into that slow-moving eastern Carolina creek.
All professional organizations who do these types of tests covers the muzzle.
The military issues shoot-away caps for this very reason. I always kept my muzzle covered with a cap or a piece of polyethelyene and a rubber band when I was in the field with the Cav unless I had a BFA on it.
The first round fired blows it off and it is an easy thing to do. All it takes is a slip and a drop and you have a plugged muzzle, any weapon.
Here's another one. When they shoot it with birdshot, look at the video at about 3:47 or 3:48 right before the shot. The gun on the berm has no tape on the muzzle. Then, when they cut to the close up of the m4 getting pepered with birdshot, it has tape on the muzzle.
I think some of those cut-scenes are special effects for dramatic effect, not actual footage. Like the rifle hitting the gravel off the back of the truck. There is no way they could have had a camera lying on the road right next to where the rifle landed. That was put in there for dramatic effect. I think the shotgun pellets hitting the rifle were a special effect too. It would take a helluva high-speed camera to capture that in real time.
I own a DDM4 and enjoyed the video. As has been mentioned by others I'm most impressed with the aimpoint. :eek:
The tape wasn't to keep water out, it was to keep a plug of mud from getting into the barrel when Larry threw it into that slow-moving eastern Carolina creek.
All professional organizations who do these types of tests covers the muzzle.
The military issues shoot-away caps for this very reason. I always kept my muzzle covered with a cap or a piece of polyethelyene and a rubber band when I was in the field with the Cav unless I had a BFA on it.
The first round fired blows it off and it is an easy thing to do. All it takes is a slip and a drop and you have a plugged muzzle, any weapon.
I think some of those cut-scenes are special effects for dramatic effect, not actual footage. Like the rifle hitting the gravel off the back of the truck. There is no way they could have had a camera lying on the road right next to where the rifle landed. That was put in there for dramatic effect. I think the shotgun pellets hitting the rifle were a special effect too. It would take a helluva high-speed camera to capture that in real time.
No special effects......high speed camera.
The tape wasn't to keep water out, it was to keep a plug of mud from getting into the barrel when Larry threw it into that slow-moving eastern Carolina creek.
All professional organizations who do these types of tests covers the muzzle.
The military issues shoot-away caps for this very reason. I always kept my muzzle covered with a cap or a piece of polyethelyene and a rubber band when I was in the field with the Cav unless I had a BFA on it.
The first round fired blows it off and it is an easy thing to do. All it takes is a slip and a drop and you have a plugged muzzle, any weapon.
I think some of those cut-scenes are special effects for dramatic effect, not actual footage. Like the rifle hitting the gravel off the back of the truck. There is no way they could have had a camera lying on the road right next to where the rifle landed. That was put in there for dramatic effect.
Ok, thanks for clearing that up. That makes perfect sense to me.
What a totally stupid and pointless video.
They did not strap it to a small nuclear device and set it off.
The other stuff was just for weenies.
:dance3:
:lol:
So true.
I don't have the sportsmans channel. Is there any other way to see that episode?
I don't either. Just buy the DVD. Its only $20 and its well worth it.
I'm really impressed with that Aimpoint.
Redline, you have to take these "torture" test marketing videos with a grain of salt. They are what they are, a really long commercial to sell a gun. Again I want to make sure everyone knows I have nothing against DD, I own a lot of their products including their DD t1 mount. But if you want to impress me have a third party thats not afeliated with DD in anyway perform the tests.
Eurodriver
05-22-11, 14:09
I'm really impressed with that Aimpoint.
I wonder if the same weapon was used for all of the tests or if they started with a new DDM4 each time. Would be interesting to find out.
Did you watch the video?
The Dumb Gun Collector
05-22-11, 14:11
I have a lot of DD doo dads and I am not surprised that they did so well. I was, however, impressed at all the abuse the T-1 took. Wow, that is a tough little mother.
Larry Vickers
05-22-11, 14:14
Guys the promo torture test video are actually excerpts from my upcoming TV show on the torture test- the clips you see are pieced together from the filming; believe it or not to get the different angles we needed for filming the tests were usually done more than once ( like shot twice with birdshot, ran over 4 times with the jeep, etc.) - the explosion was only done once however for obvious reasons!
The show will have better continuity however as I also noted bits and pieces that don't fit together on the promo video - we were all very impressed with the DDM4 but even more so with the T1 - particularly since the gun always tilted so the optic hit first from any significant fall
The show is called TacTV and it will be available on Sportsman Channel and the show website for those who don't get that channel or want the bonus material that is available via the website- extended episodes and training tips will be available for a low subscription price - approximately $10 a month or $100 for the year
Heads up both Daniel Defense and Aimpoint are show sponsors - the test shook out exactly as you see it; filming these shows and airing them is not cheap - it frankly would not be possible without sponsors like DD, Aimpoint, BCM, and others - the key is to do it in a fashion that is entertaining and legitimate - I won't lie for anyone so if I say it on the show then you can take it to the bank. Some people don't buy into that and that is OK- I would suggest watching a different show that you feel is more 'believable'
And last but not least a TacTV discussion forum will be right here on M4C - all this should launch around the end of June
Be safe
LAV
The one thing I think people have to remember is that the video is exposed to be catchy, which usually is short and to the point. Can probably easily double the run time of the video just showing them tape up the muzzle and removing the pieces of it later, probably a good 30 minutes giving better descriptions of what the tests are exposed to show, give a reason behind each test method, add 30 minutes of Larry Vickers eating lunch, etc.
Take all things with a grain of salt but remember a lot won't make it into a video like this because it is exposed to be a catchy demonstration. Not a several hour irrefutable trial.
Thanks Larry, it was a great video. It made me proud to own a DD and an Aimpoint. I'm thinking now I should have gotten the T-1, rather than the Comp M4.
Their next torture test should be to hang all types of useless shit off of it, load it with some weak or overloaded handloads, and give it to some bubba to run mallninja drills. Just sayin'.
Impressive video. The Aimpoint was rock solid. I wonder how an ACOG would handle the same type of tests.
I agree with the ammo test. Cheap steel stuff and see how it runs. Or a combo of brass and steel. Looks like the next RDS is going to be a T-1. Larue has a combo, RDS plus mount for $650. An H-1 combo can be had for $600.
http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=149
Larry Vickers
05-22-11, 15:54
Also guys don't read too much into the broken rear lens of the T1 - we hung the rifle on a steel target and during the explosion the target got flung on top of the rifle - that is what dented the magwell and caused the magazine to dump it's contents; it is also what cracked the rear lens
If we would have hung it on something else ( like wood) the T1 would have probably survived intact - just like the front lens did
So that being said after the test I did not feel the overwhelming need for a throw lever T1 mount - if that's what you want cool but I don't think it is absolutely necessary
As far as the mag goes we decided to go with the aluminum GI as that is what most soldiers are using as there are far more in service than any polymer mag
Be safe
LAV
I agree with the ammo test. Cheap steel stuff and see how it runs.
I can tell you how it runs.
Just fine.
I shoot the cheap stuff all day long without problems. Of course, I do stop every couple hundred rounds and lube up the BCG.
RetreatHell
05-22-11, 16:25
I'm blown away with all the testing, especially the T-1 since I run 4 of them and plan on buying a couple more. Wow... Just, wow!:eek:
As for the LAV's integrity, one thing I immediately picked up from Larry is that the word "Diplomacy" isn't anywhere to be found in his vocabulary. I'm sure it used to be, but it sure as shit ain't there now!:p you ask the LAV a question, and you'll get an honest answer without any bullshit filler in between. Ken Hackathorn was the same damn way in my following class a month later. It was VERY refreshing to say the least.
Anyways, I'm honestly extremely impressed with both DD and Aimpoint, even more so than I already was. That's an outstanding example of you get what you pay for.
justin_247
05-22-11, 16:43
I agree with the ammo test. Cheap steel stuff and see how it runs.
How is this at all a torture test? Some steel cased ammo may have such weak loads that it fails to cycle the weapon. However, this is strictly an ammo problem and *NOT* a problem with the rifle.
The bulk of the ammo I've shot out of my DD carbine has been steel cased ammo from Wolf and Brown Bear. The only problems I've ever had were two failures-to-feed while shooting Brown Bear. This was due to the ammo tension exerted on the feed lips by strong springs in a new GI magazine coupled with the fact that the H-buffer wasn't allowing the weak ammo to fully cycle carrier far enough to the rear to break that tension. Using a PMAG, which is longer, fixed the problem. Whenever I shoot steel cased ammo now, I use only PMAGs. If I *only* shot steel cased ammo, I'd probably just swap out the H-buffer for a Carbine buffer and be done with it.
So, as far as other steel cased ammo is concerned, Wolf has never caused me any trouble. I've also shot brass cased ammo from PMC, Prvi, and Federal without any issues at all.
TonyTacoma
05-22-11, 17:45
Very cool vid, gotta love Vickers lol. I was planning on buying a compm4 but may have been just sold on the T1
Damn impressive without a doubt!
I see the reason the get QD mount now.:D
El Pistolero
05-22-11, 22:32
Maybe it's just me but I'm more impressed by the BCM "Filthy 14" with all the rounds it has down the pipe with minimal maintenance. Who's to say a Colt/Noveske/Spike's/Hello Kitty rifle wouldn't survice some dirt, some water, some buckshot, and being ran over? Speaks more to build quality than quality of materials which is equally important IMO.
Dirtyboy333
05-23-11, 01:09
Maybe it's just me but I'm more impressed by the BCM "Filthy 14" with all the rounds it has down the pipe with minimal maintenance. Who's to say a Colt/Noveske/Spike's/Hello Kitty rifle wouldn't survice some dirt, some water, some buckshot, and being ran over? Speaks more to build quality than quality of materials which is equally important IMO.
Who's to say a DD wouldn't fair as well if not better than "filthy 14"? They use same (similiar barrel steel) materials and go through the same tests.
We could go all day talking about "who's to say xyz brand wouldn't pass". Take the test for what it is.
As amazing as "filthy 14" is, the author mentions in the article that they have ran plenty of guns past 15k w/o cleaning or problems and that is almost precisely where "filthy 14" (midlength) failed. If you replace the BCG due to
broken lugs you cannot call it the same gun if conducting an endurance test.
A major point of that article is to show that an "in-spec" AR will run extremely dirty.
Thanks Larry, it was a great video. It made me proud to own a DD and an Aimpoint. I'm thinking now I should have gotten the T-1, rather than the Comp M4.
I know the T-1 was impressive to say the least, but does everyone think its only the T-1 that can take that kind of abuse? I can almost guarantee the M3 or M4 would have taken it like a champ just the same. Dont second guess yourself on the Comp M4 you have...its Aimpoint...they are badASS
I know, I love it, but the reason I did not buy the T-1 is that I assumed because it was so small and so lite it was not very durable.
Well....ah....I was wrong.
:D
jonconsiglio
05-23-11, 09:21
I know, I love it, but the reason I did not buy the T-1 is that I assumed because it was so small and so lite it was not very durable.
Well....ah....I was wrong.
:D
I had that same concern when I first went to the H/T1's from the m3 and m4. I mentioned it a few pages back - I wasn't overly concerned, I just didn't think it could hold up as well as the bigger Aimpoints. I was glad to see the abuse it took in the video.
As for guys saying any gun can do this that's built to spec, maybe they can. But the few times I've dropped my guns a considerable distance, 4 or 5 feet and once down some cement steps and I landed on it, I was very concerned something wouldn't work. Seeing this in a video and havin it happen with your own gun are two different things.
My point is for the guys saying this isn't much of a test or similar comments, think about it being your gun and it taking a good hit when you NEED that gun to work. I can watch this stuff all day and say that's not too bad, then my gun falls four feet and lands on it's optic, I won't handle it so lightly. Put it in perspective and this test says a hell of a lot.
I learned pretty quick what aftermarket parts will hold up and what won't. I broke a bad lever and it caused the bolt to hold open every few rounds. Without the wrench I would have had to twist it off and risk more damage. I now think twice before adding anything to my rifle that isn't used specifically for competition. and my fall was
Just going to a prone (urban type I guess) and the gun hitting the curb.
To me, this test says a lot and let's me know then next time my gun takes a good hit (without aftermarket parts that could interfere ) chances are it'll hold up. I won't be shooting my guns with a shotgun, but it's good to understand the types of impact it can take and still fire.
The only other thing I'd really like to have seen is, like Stick mentioned, how the irons held zero. I'd personally be interested in both the FSB and a rail mount front sight, eith a fixed DD or a folding front. I would be curious to see if the optic did fail would the irons still be on, would the FSB have canted or would the rail have shifted enough to throw off the zero on the mounted sights.
This is just something I'm personally curious about as I used to run the integrated sight of my URX II up with my T1 until it took a good hit from only a few feet and bent the front sight enough to require something along the lines of 12 to 14 clicks of the rear to re-zero.
Jonathan
polymorpheous
05-23-11, 09:36
I had that same concern when I first went to the H/T1's from the m3 and m4. I mentioned it a few pages back - I wasn't overly concerned, I just didn't think it could hold up as well as the bigger Aimpoints. I was glad to see the abuse it took in the video.
As for guys saying any gun can do this that's built to spec, maybe they can. But the few times I've dropped my guns a considerable distance, 4 or 5 feet and once down some cement steps and I landed on it, I was very concerned something wouldn't work. Seeing this in a video and havin it happen with your own gun are two different things.
My point is for the guys saying this isn't much of a test or similar comments, think about it being your gun and it taking a good hit when you NEED that gun to work. I can watch this stuff all day and say that's not too bad, then my gun falls four feet and lands on it's optic, I won't handle it so lightly. Put it in perspective and this test says a hell of a lot.
I learned pretty quick what aftermarket parts will hold up and what won't. I broke a bad lever and it caused the bolt to hold open every few rounds. Without the wrench I would have had to twist it off and risk more damage. I now think twice before adding anything to my rifle that isn't used specifically for competition. and my fall was
Just going to a prone (urban type I guess) and the gun hitting the curb.
To me, this test says a lot and let's me know then next time my gun takes a good hit (without aftermarket parts that could interfere ) chances are it'll hold up. I won't be shooting my guns with a shotgun, but it's good to understand the types of impact it can take and still fire.
The only other thing I'd really like to have seen is, like Stick mentioned, how the irons held zero. I'd personally be interested in both the FSB and a rail mount front sight, eith a fixed DD or a folding front. I would be curious to see if the optic did fail would the irons still be on, would the FSB have canted or would the rail have shifted enough to throw off the zero on the mounted sights.
This is just something I'm personally curious about as I used to run the integrated sight of my URX II up with my T1 until it took a good hit from only a few feet and bent the front sight enough to require something along the lines of 12 to 14 clicks of the rear to re-zero.
Jonathan
Excellent post.
xbmxracerx
05-23-11, 09:55
I think I made the right choice.........:D
No x300? That would have been fun to see.
Beat Trash
05-23-11, 12:32
I've been using some type of Ar system since 1983. Back then, it was a issued M16A1. For years, I heard that the M16/AR15 was not reliable when compared to the AK system. It had to be maintained to a near spotless condition in order to function. The Marine Corps was the first to pound this into my head. Cleaning weapons was an almost fanatical obsession during that era.
Yes, I still clean my guns after I shoot them. (Old habits, ect.)
But I think the point LAV is trying to make, and what I get out of these torture tests is the following:
Properly lubed, the AR system is a damn reliable system.
A well built AR can take the abuse that comes with a working gun.
While I have no intention to abuse my guns, sometimes sh*t happens. You fall, you drop stuff, you bang into things, ect. It's good to know that I can rely on the gun to function afterwards. Especially my work guns (LEO).
Aimpoints rock! When they threw the gun out of the vehicle and it landed on the Aimpoint prior to being run over by the jeep, I thought it was done. When they blew it up and it still held it's zero through the broken lens... that shocked me!
LAV has it rough! That had to be a blast (no pun intended) to torture someone else's gun and optic.
QuickStrike
05-23-11, 16:19
This just shows that a quality AR is a very robust and reliable weapon.
I was going to buy an XPS for my 6920 but might go for a T1 instead. :cool:
parishioner
05-23-11, 16:43
Maybe it's just me but I'm more impressed by the BCM "Filthy 14" with all the rounds it has down the pipe with minimal maintenance. Who's to say a Colt/Noveske/Spike's/Hello Kitty rifle wouldn't survice some dirt, some water, some buckshot, and being ran over? Speaks more to build quality than quality of materials which is equally important IMO.
Those manufacturer's products may or may not pass the same tests. The point is DD can say that their product can.
xbmxracerx
05-23-11, 17:13
Those manufacturer's products may or may not pass the same tests. The point is DD can say, their product can.
:agree:
I think the fact that the rifle itself survived the falls could possibly be attributed how it landed. Obviously we can't tell exactly how it landed from the helo-drop, but the drop from the vehicle on the gravel road would have probably toasted something had the rifle landed on the buttstock (rifle vertical to ground). I have personally seen an AR of very high quality have its lower receiver bent (yes, bent) from a similar fall onto a paved road at about 20 or 30 mph. This rendered the gun inoperable (buffer would not travel all the way back into the RE). Not to take anything away from DD, they obviously build some of the highest quality ARs on the market, but I'm just saying that the DD or any AR could have just as easily been destroyed early on in their testing. I really enjoyed watching the video and forwarded it to all my AR buddies. And no I am not trying to be a "hard to impress" type, I was thoroughly impressed.
FChen17213
05-23-11, 17:39
One thing I don't think anyone mentioned is that this test also proves the robustness and ruggedness of the DD Micro Aimpoint mount. It is the mount that the T-1 is attached to. The screws attaching the optic to the mount and the screws clamping the mount to the receiver all have to hold up and not move to retain zero. Since the same type of screws and setup are used in the DD T-1 mount as the DD BUIS (Rear for DD M4V1, Front and Rear for DD M4V4/V5), I would guess that the Irons would have retained zero just as well. This truly says alot about how well made these DD products are.
[QUOTE=FChen17213;1005843]One thing I don't think anyone mentioned is that this test also proves the robustness and ruggedness of the DD Micro Aimpoint mount.QUOTE]
I meant to mention this in the post yesterday along with the T-1...I forgot. Also, I think alot of members here would be surprised with the abuse their rifles could take.
Like another member says about its a different story when its YOUR rifle.
But nevertheless, Some of the guns I have seen on here could take a lickin an keep tickin
Cagemonkey
05-23-11, 18:03
Good test, but nothing concerning functional durability. No example of the benefits of the cold hammer forged barrel or the quality BCG.
This just shows that a quality AR is a very robust and reliable weapon.
I was going to buy an XPS for my 6920 but might go for a T1 instead. :cool:
I have both an XPS & an Aimpoint M3. Both are great. As far as the durability of the XPS, I doubt they'll stand up to the abuse that a AP will, but I wouldn't sell them short. The toy store where I bought my XPS had one that the glass was shot out of it & it was still working. (Now if they'd just get umpteen thousand hours battery life, like the Aimpoints......)
WOW. What a video! Big props to Aimpoint and the T-1 mount. That impressed me more than anything.
Well done LAV. :cool:
acaixguard
05-24-11, 08:55
Wow, finally got around to watching the video, and was impressed (and entertained). Good stuff!
Larry, just outta curiosity, what exact round was used in the shotgun? Thanks!
Doc Safari
05-24-11, 09:36
Short and to the point with regard to torture tests: 'Filthy 14' needs a torture test like the one in the DD video, and the DD needs a high round count test of functional durability.
Just now got to watch this vid. LAV sure knows how to beat on a weapon system. While I somewhat figured the rifle would operate through most of those tests, I was taken aside by the performance of the Aimpont. I, like some in this thread, was a bit sceptical of the "tiny" Aimpoints durability. Boy was I wrong. That thing got the shit kicked out of it and still worked. AMAZING!
I also realized I am in the wrong line of work. All this time I thought I had a cool job and LAV just proved me wrong.
Great job on the vid!
Already got two micro's. I see a couple more in my future. One of those if you hadn't seen it things.....I thought Freddie Blish and his demo was convincing. I was wrong
jonconsiglio
05-24-11, 17:14
I have both an XPS & an Aimpoint M3. Both are great. As far as the durability of the XPS, I doubt they'll stand up to the abuse that a AP will, but I wouldn't sell them short. The toy store where I bought my XPS had one that the glass was shot out of it & it was still working. (Now if they'd just get umpteen thousand hours battery life, like the Aimpoints......)
I've seen that at three or four other gun shops. All that shows is the reticle is not dependent on the glass.
Darkop, it's not cool, in my book, for you to take a shot at Larry on the public forum, then when he responds to you openly here, you just send him a PM.
Uncool, bro. Totally.
Darkop, it's kind of uncool, in my book, for you to take a shot at Larry on the public forum, then when he responds to you openly here, you just send him a PM.
Uncool, bro. Totally.
I agree, and that's all I'll say about that.
I watch Larry's show along with other firearms shows, generally have to dvr them because I get up very early and go to bed early.
I thought I was seeing bad muzzle discipline on several of these shows until I realized that it's on tv and most of it was the angle of the camera. I'd have to go back and watch it again. What would appear as one man pointing a rifle at another man's calf wasn't actually what was happening after I'd watch it a few times and concentrate on it.
Great show Larry and I'm looking forward to your new one.
Larry Vickers
05-24-11, 20:13
Hey guys before I forget we are going to have a TacTV forum here on M4C - we want to hear feedback on the episodes as well as ideas for future content
The crew here at M4C have went above and beyond to help us out - we think a forum dedicated to the show will be a winner
Be safe
LAV
Looking forward to that Larry, should be a fun and informative show, and the dedicated forum will be a nice enhancement.
Great video. Makes me wonder how much a free float railed handguard adds to the durability of the M4/M16 design over the traditional plastic handguards. I imagine that the older style handguards would've been crushed or blown off the rifle during these tests, whereas the Omega X rail system not only remained attached but served to protect the barrel and gas tube from additional damage.
Fantastic performance from the T1 too - tough optic.
MrMilspecer
05-24-11, 21:03
Hey guys before I forget we are going to have a TacTV forum here on M4C - we want to hear feedback on the episodes as well as ideas for future content
The crew here at M4C have went above and beyond to help us out - we think a forum dedicated to the show will be a winner
Be safe
LAV
LAV thanks for the awsome test. I am a big fan of both you and Daniel Defense. My DDM4 has always been my fav. AR. Really enjoy watching Tactical Arms and always seem to learn something. I do have a few ideas for future testing when the other forum gets up and running. Thanks for taking the time.
The DD AR surviving this test does not surprise me at all. The poor muzzle discipline displayed by LAV did surprise me.Darkop
I suspect this has been resolved, but just to provide my context, had anything on the video concerned me regarding this matter, I would have first suspected the camera angle, my eyes, or nearly anything than any carelessness by LAV. The first class I took from LAV, and before the class even started, he taught me a lesson on being muzzle aware. And I am grateful for it. If there is anything that LAV is more aware of, I don't know what it is. Thanks LAV.
fireblast713
05-25-11, 15:31
Just bought a DD M4 V5 LW upper, this vid makes me want an aimpoint also... soo many things to buy so little $$$ :-(
vicious_cb
05-25-11, 16:43
I really enjoyed the tactical arms episodes on foreign weapons. I hope you're going to do a segment on some foreign bullpups like the FAMAS, AUG and SA-80.
Happy with my DD/Aimpoint m2 combo!! Great vid
NeoNeanderthal
05-25-11, 20:35
Larry,
I watch your shows (Tactical Arms and tactical impact) and they are absolutely the shit. Not only do you do a great job- but you picked great co-hosts as well. I've learned a ton from them and am looking forward to your new tactv show. Keep up the good work, i appreciate the no bullshit method of your show!!
I know the T-1 was impressive to say the least, but does everyone think its only the T-1 that can take that kind of abuse? I can almost guarantee the M3 or M4 would have taken it like a champ just the same. Dont second guess yourself on the Comp M4 you have...its Aimpoint...they are badASS
I would have assumed that the T1 would be tougher than the M series. Are they the same guage of aluminum? If so, a smaller diameter tube should be harder to dent/flex (and the glass breakage that comes along with that) than a larger diameter. The smaller optic should also have less leverage (stress) on the mount.
vicious_cb
05-25-11, 22:20
Any idea how the omega X rail held up? Did they take it apart to see if it was bent, warped or had broken set screws?
fireblast713
05-25-11, 22:31
Any idea how the omega X rail held up? Did they take it apart to see if it was bent, warped or had broken set screws?
+1 on that, i'm curious if it was undamaged to the point where it could still be removed and reinstalled with no binding or anything
davebee456
05-25-11, 23:43
I bought my first Ar Style Rifle last week and it was a Daniel Defense DDXV,
I feel good about my choice after watching this kind of video, the choices were DD,Rock River or a SmithWesson M&P15.
I do wish more firearms manufacturers did these kind of torture tests.
My only complaint so far is that I did have to pay to have rifle shipped back to DD after I bought it from a reputable online dealer because the upper and lower were very,very loose and not just a little which can be normal.
They sent the rifle back in three days with a much better fitting upper.
Dirtyboy333
05-26-11, 01:17
I bought my first Ar Style Rifle last week and it was a Daniel Defense DDXV,
I feel good about my choice after watching this kind of video, the choices were DD,Rock River or a SmithWesson M&P15.
I do wish more firearms manufacturers did these kind of torture tests
My only complaint so far is that I did have to pay to have rifle shipped back to DD after I bought it from a reputable online dealer because the upper and lower were very,very loose and not just a little which can be normal.
They sent the rifle back in three days with a much better fitting
upper.
You obviously made a very wise choice. :cool:
I'm glad they took care of you. I bought my DD upper/lower separate and they fit so nicely it almost seems their a matched pair. Got the lower for a great price from G&R Tactical and the upper (receiver only) from Midway.
Oh, by the way, it's time to update your sig line. ;)
Got a chance to watch the video. Nicely done.
Couple points to be made. DD spent a lot of money for this test. They did things to the gun that the majority of people will NEVER do to theirs. They also took a big gamble with this video (which they did not have to do). Imagine spending all that money and having some failure for all to see. So I applaud them for doing such a thing and those of you that found issue with it are most likely the same people that would complain if someone gave you a solid gold gun. :rolleyes:
C4
Great video. Makes me like my DD Vickers edition rifle even more!
Cleaned up a bunch of posts in this thread. Stay on topic please.
Overall the test video was put together very well. The test itself seems to be well designed to simulate everyday combat abuses. I'm sure you could come up with many other styles of "Torture Tests" to put a weapon through but this one was well designed for it's purposes. As we all know DD weapons and parts are very well made. Also shows a Mil-spec made weapon will handle a ton of abuse and keep on ticking. If I didn't already own my BCM middy the DD would have been by choice. Actually when I start planning on purchasing another M4 style weapon it will get a serious look. Seeing the Aimpoint take the abuse it did and keep on working really impressed me. The T1 was my first Aimpoint and this just validates my choice.
Great work DD, Aimpoint and LAV for putting on such a great test and video.
Wow, very impressive! A couple of decisions were made for me after watching this video. ;)
Dirtyboy333
06-03-11, 08:18
Great video. Makes me like my DD Vickers edition rifle even more!
Are you the member who won that (by picking the same number as me but earlier :angry:?
If so, I don't recall seeing any pics but I could have missed them. ;)
That was me, and no I haven't posted any pictures up. I should probably get to that.
Dirtyboy333
06-03-11, 09:26
That was me, and no I haven't posted any pictures up. I should probably get to that.
Dont mind me I'm just bitter over the loss. Haha
No I'm very happy for you. One day I would like to see a few pics of that bad mofo. I know I can see the pics in DD's website but it's just not the same.
That looks crazy. I'm hoping the H-1 is just as rugged as the T-1.
Sent the link to a Nam vet who constantly enjoys telling me I'd backed the wrong rifle.
He seemed surprised and pleased by the results.
Makes me want to pick up my first factory complete.
Bravo DD.
Sent the link to a Nam vet who constantly enjoys telling me I'd backed the wrong rifle.
He seemed surprised and pleased by the results.
Makes me want to pick up my first factory complete.
Bravo DD.
I was really close to pulling the trigger, I only wish they offered their rails in a lower profile version.
If I wasn't a total sucker for aesthetics, I'd have one coming in the mail.
Think they would be willing to sell me that test rifle at a reduced cost? :D
Think they would be willing to sell me that test rifle at a reduced cost? :D
They might even throw in that T1 if you're lucky.
Great video. Makes me like my DD Vickers edition rifle even more!
Which version is the LAV edition based on.....the V1?
Which version is the LAV edition based on.....the V1?
I think that's correct.
I think that's correct.
The only differences I can see is the lightweight barrel and the RIS II rail. After that everything else looks to be the same (Excluding the added accessories).
Submariner
06-03-11, 18:52
It was said that the Aimpoint lost zero after the helo drop. Was that ever verified? Isn't is possible that the barrel was bent in the drop?
It was said that the Aimpoint lost zero after the helo drop. Was that ever verified? Isn't is possible that the barrel was bent in the drop?
Over at Lightfighter that was mentioned. After all was said and done, the barrel was tweaked, or at least they think it was, and that may have been the cause of the zero loss.
Either way the gun functioned.
Bob
I think that's correct.
Thank you.
Submariner
06-05-11, 20:51
Either way the gun functioned.
Bob
As did the Aimpoint. One wonders if any Eotech would have functioned in this test.
Logicalpath
06-05-11, 21:08
That was crazy, an explosive...really!?
Proud to be an owner of a ddm4
As did the Aimpoint. One wonders if any Eotech would have functioned in this test.
Well, there's one way to find out!
Larry said Aimpoint was a sponsor of his show or something. They need to do direct comparison of the two to show how superior the Aimpoint is. They could even mount them on the same gun. :D
Southern Thunder is not affiliated with Tannerite in any way. ST is made in NC and is a much superior product. I believe the rifle test was filmed in Chatham Co. NC.
I live in Chatham County and recognize none of that...
Finally got around to watching this. Definately one of the better advertising/testing videos I've seen in a while.
I'll agree, I wasn't so impressed with the dirt/dunking/birdshot tests, but like LAV said- 'kiddie tests'. And if they didn't do them, than everybody would say "but they didn't do such-and-such with the rifle".
I was probably most impressed with the helicopter drop and the road test- good lord! I thought for sure those would have broken/crushed something. Definately a great piece of marketing leverage not only for DD, but also Aimpoint and Magpul.
In other news:
I wonder how a Comp M4 would have held up. From what I can tell (haven't been able to actually get hands-on yet) it seems the lenses are recessed in the body of the sight a bit deeper. I wonder if the lense crack after the explosion might have been avoided with one of these...
ryanschmidt65
06-07-11, 20:29
I have got to get me one of thse:D
Nice video. Good marketing for a good product.
Finally got around to watching this. Definately one of the better advertising/testing videos I've seen in a while.
I'll agree, I wasn't so impressed with the dirt/dunking/birdshot tests, but like LAV said- 'kiddie tests'. And if they didn't do them, than everybody would say "but they didn't do such-and-such with the rifle".
I was probably most impressed with the helicopter drop and the road test- good lord! I thought for sure those would have broken/crushed something. Definately a great piece of marketing leverage not only for DD, but also Aimpoint and Magpul.
In other news:
I wonder how a Comp M4 would have held up. From what I can tell (haven't been able to actually get hands-on yet) it seems the lenses are recessed in the body of the sight a bit deeper. I wonder if the lense crack after the explosion might have been avoided with one of these...
I dont know if the lens being recessed would do anything, you still have dramatic pressure differences with an explosion which is more than likelly gonna crack the glass either way.
ryanschmidt65
06-08-11, 00:04
One thing I would like to see additionally would be xxxx rounds fired without cleaning, or xxxxx rounds fired with minimal cleaning
John_Burns
06-08-11, 10:45
Guys the promo torture test video are actually excerpts from my upcoming TV show on the torture test- the clips you see are pieced together from the filming; believe it or not to get the different angles we needed for filming the tests were usually done more than once ( like shot twice with birdshot, ran over 4 times with the jeep, etc.) - the explosion was only done once however for obvious reasons!
The show will have better continuity however as I also noted bits and pieces that don't fit together on the promo video - we were all very impressed with the DDM4 but even more so with the T1 - particularly since the gun always tilted so the optic hit first from any significant fall
The show is called TacTV and it will be available on Sportsman Channel and the show website for those who don't get that channel or want the bonus material that is available via the website- extended episodes and training tips will be available for a low subscription price - approximately $10 a month or $100 for the year
Heads up both Daniel Defense and Aimpoint are show sponsors - the test shook out exactly as you see it; filming these shows and airing them is not cheap - it frankly would not be possible without sponsors like DD, Aimpoint, BCM, and others - the key is to do it in a fashion that is entertaining and legitimate - I won't lie for anyone so if I say it on the show then you can take it to the bank. Some people don't buy into that and that is OK- I would suggest watching a different show that you feel is more 'believable'
And last but not least a TacTV discussion forum will be right here on M4C - all this should launch around the end of June
Be safe
LAV
Having produced a lot of hunting type video it gets pretty easy to see when someone is trying to use editing to cover up mistakes or change an outcome.
The multiple camera angles used in the video are really difficult to get unless the scene is filmed more than once and this can lead to continuity issues in post production.
For what it is worth I would say the video accurately portrays the events but the editing in post had a few minor issues. Getting a team of camera men and editors together always seems to take some time and it looks like a pretty good start.
Fun video to watch.
A few of the posts above make me smile. Everyone is free to subject their chosen weapon (other AR brand or even a Marlin Lever Gun) to the same or even more gruesome tests and post the video. You might find out it is not as easy as it appears.
Good luck with the new show, Larry.
I live in Chatham County and recognize none of that...
Private property I believe...
I do stand to be corrected though.
Since they're trying to kill the carbine I wonder what the 100 foot drop test would have done to it if it were to fall on a hard surface.
I'm not too familiar with some of the fixes for an M4 type (DI system) if sand or water got into the receiver. Let's say the dust cover was open, bolt forward on a live round. Obviously if I was using the gun, I wouldn't have the barrel plugged. If sand or water got into the receiver through the barrel or ejection port, like say I was running, tripped, and the gun flew into the dirt or a deep puddle, would there be any other action I would take other than just shake the gun out and shoot it again? Water getting into the gas tube sounds especially bad to me, not a chance I'd like to take, but if it was a life or death type of deal, it seems like I'd have little choice in the matter, other than to transition to my sidearm.
Dirtyboy333
06-08-11, 23:02
Since they're trying to kill the carbine I wonder what the 100 foot drop test would have done to it if it were to fall on a hard surface.
It would most likely burst apart. As would an AK or any other carbine. ;)
pcardinal42
06-09-11, 00:37
Awesome video, I showed it to a few skeptical friends of mine saying the extra money and brands such as DD, BCM, or Colt aren't worth it. Well this video made them a believer. Even switched a guy wanting to buy an eotech to aimpoint. I like many would like to see the same test done with an eotech attached.
It would most likely burst apart. As would an AK or any other carbine. ;)
Probably.
I live in Chatham County and recognize none of that...
I haven't rewatch the video so I don't know if they specifically said it was in NC, but Daniel Defense is located near Savannah, GA. Savannah and its nearby area is in Chattam County, GA.
It definitely says "Somewhere in NC"
Wow I just ordered an aimpoint t1 after watching that!
decent vid...I expect top tier stuff to perform as such.
I would expect nothing less from any product LAV endorses or attaches his "brand" to. He appears to be a straight shooting no bs kinda guy.
DD is certainly on the list for my next upper.
I would like to see a test of all the top tier guns against the 2nd tier guns like the s&w mp15 that are so popular where the guns are ran hard in a 2-5 day "shoot school" scenario.
good stuff dd and lav.
ONEmanWOLFpack
06-17-11, 07:38
This video was one of my deciding factors for buying my DDM4...
I haven't rewatch the video so I don't know if they specifically said it was in NC, but Daniel Defense is located near Savannah, GA. Savannah and its nearby area is in Chattam County, GA.
It was Chatham County, NC.
Confirmed this yesterday (6-25) at a match held in the same location.
brzusa.1911
06-26-11, 15:32
I love my DDM4 V5, so much that I have two identical twins.
Wow I just ordered an aimpoint t1 after watching that!
I am very much wanting to put a T1 on my SBR build, but I think I may wait a bit because I want to suppress it first.
ErikTaylor
06-26-11, 23:09
That is an interesting video for sure. For what they stated they were trying to do I think they did a great job. However one thing that he said between the dirt and water video created a question. He said that clean and prepped the rifle for both the dirt and water segments, and I'm assuming for the rest of the others. My question is couldn't a given rifle see pretty much all of those in 1 days time? I think if they left the internals alone and kept running it it would have been really impressive.
Other than that a great video, and I always wondered what the failure point of the AP is, and still no real solid answer. It was still trucking after the torture test!
Other than that a great video, and I always wondered what the failure point of the AP is, and still no real solid answer. It was still trucking after the torture test!
I would have liked to see if that particular T1 could have been re-zeroed or if it was too badly damaged at that point.
RepeatDefender
06-27-11, 10:02
Awesome vid! I'm loving my DDM4 even more now. Sure would like to add an Aimpoint to it soon...
I guess this promotional video did it's job.
Cuz I went and bought one.
Hopefully it'll be here soon.
R3V3LATIONS
06-27-11, 13:45
Sold on a micro...that much is sure.
Im all for the TACTV forum, if you are reading this Larry...sounds like a good idea.
Also, thanks to DD and Larry for putting this test on, I dont care what anyone says, thats one of the toughest TT's iv ever seen done. Next rifle will most likley be a hybrid, with alot of DD parts.
Also, to those conspiracy theorists, Larry is a man of integrity, we all know that. We wanted it, he gave it to us, Job well done sir and again, as always, keep doing what you do.
Thanks, and as Vickers says "be safe"
shaneinhisroom
06-27-11, 18:32
Awesome video. So glad I have a T-1 micro. Those little buggers just won't die!
sinjinhawk
06-27-11, 19:10
I have been using both DD products and Aimpoint Rd for many years and very happy with their quality. After watching this torture test Im now more confident to use both of this product without doubt or hesitation.
Man oh man, I'm glad I got my Aimpoint Micro months ago. Because I foresee a HUGE demand for them following the premiere of Larry Vickers' TacTV today.
Man oh man, I'm glad I got my Aimpoint Micro months ago. Because I foresee a HUGE demand for them following the premiere of Larry Vickers' TacTV today.
You're definitely right. I hate I missed the show. If anyone knows where to find it online, please let me know.
You're definitely right. I hate I missed the show. If anyone knows where to find it online, please let me know.
It airs again thurs, just set my dvr for that and for the series.
I've been very happy with my ddm4 v1 purchased in early '09.
SpyderTattoo
06-27-11, 22:18
I'm going to kick it up a notch and say, this guy is the king of cleche's Baby...
I guess this promotional video did it's job.
Cuz I went and bought one.
Hopefully it'll be here soon.
I feel the same way.
johnpuga1982
09-08-11, 22:58
Just saw this again. Makes me really want to get an Aimpoint Micro T-1.
mikemi1951
12-17-15, 04:26
Tough test. Would have liked to see a Pmag instead of the aluminum mag to see if it kept up with the Aimpoint and the weapon.
Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk
Wow the necroposting has become in vogue as of late...
WickedWillis
12-17-15, 18:39
Tough test. Would have liked to see a Pmag instead of the aluminum mag to see if it kept up with the Aimpoint and the weapon.
Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk
As much as I love my Pmags, I doubt that it would have competed with the USGI mags here. Necrobump, I know....
snowdog650
12-18-15, 17:05
Were PMags even invented when this test was conducted?
(yet another necrobump filled with sarcasm)
snowdog650
12-18-15, 17:06
double tap :suicide2:
double tap :suicide2:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magpul_Industries
Came out in 2007.
snowdog650
12-18-15, 21:24
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magpul_Industries
Came out in 2007.
Thus, the sarcasm.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.