View Full Version : KAC riles on Sand Hill?
This was brought up when I was at work yesterday. I was showing my SR-15 to my PSG and he commented on them having KAC rifles in the company he was a DS with. A PSG from another platoon was also a DS at Benning and he's die-hard convinced there aren't any Knight's rifles there.
I remember having Knight's Armament M16's in OSUT. (D 1/50) The only M4 in our company was a Knight's, too. However, I'm hearing from a few people that there aren't any KAC rifles in ITB.
These were A4's with the rifle length RAS. Do we have any DS' here who can confirm that I'm not crazy? It's been a while since I was there, and my brain's been tossed around a few times, so maybe I'm totally wrong.
Thanks,
-Dave
colombianito1021
05-21-11, 19:47
When I went through there was no KAC....
off topic... im pretty sure we ripped with you out of Paktika
When I went through there was no KAC....
off topic... im pretty sure we ripped with you out of Paktika
PM inbound soon.
Also, that should read "KAC Rifles" in the title.
colombianito1021
05-21-11, 19:52
delete.
Grumpy MSG
05-21-11, 20:27
There aren't any Knight M4s or M16 family weapons in the Army or Marine supply systems. That said, there are millions of Knight M4 and M5 (rifle length) rail systems with Knight marked covers on both. So maybe the PSG you are referencing just remembers seeing Knight Armament all over the rail covers and his brain transferred it to the rifle.
I doubt any OSUT infantry company would have even one M110 sniper rifle in it's arms room, so he wouldn't have seen one of them.
Damn, I must be losing my mind. I know they weren't Colt...I didn't see a Colt rifle until I got to my unit. I also know they weren't an M110 or SR-16 pattern rifle. I didn't see an M110 until I got to the Bn Scout platoon.
Thanks for the help guys.
Silver_2325
05-22-11, 03:42
I have no idea what we used in basic but it is nice to see someone attached to 1/50 on this board. That was my basic unit.
You more than likely had an M16A4 made by FN with a KAC rail system.
Damn, I must be losing my mind. I know they weren't Colt...I didn't see a Colt rifle until I got to my unit. I also know they weren't an M110 or SR-16 pattern rifle. I didn't see an M110 until I got to the Bn Scout platoon.
Thanks for the help guys.
When I went through in 02 we had FN M16A4s with KAC rails.
yugo308guy
05-22-11, 16:23
Hell, when I went through in '86 we didn't even know what a rail was! I had a Colt btw.
Yeah, FNs been on Sand Hill for a long time, and I suspect Harmony Church too. My M16A2 in 1995 was an FN with the worst FCG I've ever fingered.
Agree with the Knight rail theory.
Yeah, I seem to remember having an FN M16A2 back in '92...
M16A4s are interesting, seems like M4s would make more sense since that is what they all will get (with few exceptions) at their unit.
I went through in 02 as well. We had the M16A4s w/ Knights rail and M4s w/ knights rails at Drum.
One more vote for the rail/rifle manufacturer mix-up.
Yeah, I seem to remember having an FN M16A2 back in '92...
M16A4s are interesting, seems like M4s would make more sense since that is what they all will get (with few exceptions) at their unit.
I had heard from friends that became DS that they are starting to use M4s now.
kaltesherz
05-22-11, 17:06
You more than likely had an M16A4 made by FN with a KAC rail system.
Bingo. I was in B 1/50 and we were the only Co at Benning at the time with M4s, everyone else had M16A4's. Everyone had KAC rail systems. This was in 2007.
Also your D Co replaced my unit when we ripped out of Khost in 2009...
A purchase of KAC rifle was made by the US Govt I want to say 2 years ago. But they did not go to the US Mil it was for another govt agency's LEO use, though I don't recall which one offhand.
DaBears_85
05-22-11, 21:47
This was brought up when I was at work yesterday. I was showing my SR-15 to my PSG and he commented on them having KAC rifles in the company he was a DS with. A PSG from another platoon was also a DS at Benning and he's die-hard convinced there aren't any Knight's rifles there.
I remember having Knight's Armament M16's in OSUT. (D 1/50) The only M4 in our company was a Knight's, too. However, I'm hearing from a few people that there aren't any KAC rifles in ITB.
These were A4's with the rifle length RAS. Do we have any DS' here who can confirm that I'm not crazy? It's been a while since I was there, and my brain's been tossed around a few times, so maybe I'm totally wrong.
Thanks,
-Dave
I have no idea what we used in basic but it is nice to see someone attached to 1/50 on this board. That was my basic unit.
Small world, I was attached to D 1/50 during OSUT as well. There's definitely no KAC rifles there, everything I saw were FN manufactured M4's.
J
Small world, I was attached to D 1/50 during OSUT as well. There's definitely no KAC rifles there, everything I saw were FN manufactured M4's.
J
Then that proves it. I AM in fact retarded.
Also your D Co replaced my unit when we ripped out of Khost in 2009...
I spent my deployment in Paktika. Did a few air assaults up to Khost but that was it.
Generally from what I've seen at benning the m16a4s are made by fnh and the m4s are colt, I know that up here at drum in the arms room we have 6 fnh a4s and all our m4s have the prancing pony on the side
I had heard from friends that became DS that they are starting to use M4s now.
Yeah, all of our new guys are telling me they went through with Aimpoint's and M4's. They also ditched the ALICE packs/LBE's.
DaBears_85
05-22-11, 23:54
Then that proves it. I AM in fact retarded.
Not necessarily, it's not like I went through each platoon's bay and personally inspected every weapon. I only know that my platoon didn't have any. Then again, D 1/50 also has (or had) some Yugo AK's in their arms room, so God only knows what else might be back there. I'm leaning towards the rail-cover theory though.
J
LowSpeed_HighDrag
05-23-11, 00:10
So...we've solved the big question then....
Not that I have 100% confirmation but I do not beleive KAC ever supplied complete rifles in 5.56 of any configuration to the military services. In addition to Colt and FN (current suppliers for the m4 and m16a4 respectively) you will also find older m16A1 lowers rebuilt into A2 or A4 rifles. These will have the word auto ground off or crossed out and the word burst added on (I've seen some that look like very clean etched lettering and some that looked like a 2 year old wrote it in!) These can be any maker that had an M16A1 contract in the vietnam era (Colt, GM-Hydramatic, Or H&R- harrington and richardson.)
God you guys make me feel old.. I had an M16A1 w/irons back in '85 at sand hill.
Army Chief
05-23-11, 18:08
God you guys make me feel old.. I had an M16A1 w/irons back in '85 at sand hill.
Ah, the glory days of the 1st Infantry Training Brigade. I remember them well. =]
AC (B-5-1)
Grumpy MSG
05-23-11, 18:40
Also known as the "Sand Hilton", by the folks going through Harmony Church at the time. I was in the first class at E-1-1 to get 4 sets of BDUs in September 82. The classes before us got 2 pickle suits and 2 BDUs. We did get the OG-107 green field jackets though, and had to buy the woodland ones a couple of years later.
I think we had mostly, if not all, Colt M16A1s at the ITB, they were all built as A1s. After that at Fort Campbell we had a mix of M16A1s from Colt, Hydramatic and H&R. Some of the Colts started life as M16s, they had serial numbers under 100,000 and the serial #s started with a 0, they were stamped with A1 MOD after the M16 on the receiver. those were also flat sided and the rib that is normally around the magazine release wasn't on them. We also had an XM16E1 marked rifle float through there too. Our pistols were a mix of M1911s and A1s and all the M203s in the Arms Room had 4 digit serial numbers but two.
Long after that, I have seen plenty of FN and Colt M16A2s, I know some of the A1s were remanufactured into A2s all of the ones I saw were pretty high serial numbers (above 5,000,000), I never have seen a remanufactured H&R or Hydramatic. On the Colts they milled out the Auto and marked burst in the milled out oval. There is on member here who has shown a photo of an FN M4 from his unit, so I have no doubt that some of them have been converted from M16A4s.
I went through in 2005 and carried a FN M16A4. I was also B Co 1/50. My only Knights experience is the M110. I was in the first class to go through sniper school with the M110. We had to carry both our M24 and M110 and qualify with both. I understand the weapon system was new at the time but I have seen nothing but problems. My M110 was full auto! Everytime I qualified I would swap lowers with my spotter. When we recieved 10 M110's later on at my unit we had to send 3 back to be repaired, all 3 had fire control issues. My experience with the M110 has definitely made my shy away from Knights.
Army Chief
05-23-11, 19:28
Also known as the "Sand Hilton", by the folks going through Harmony Church at the time.
Dude, I just KNEW that was going to come up. =]
I really only remember seeing the 'Church guys once or twice out on the land nav course, but they made sure we took an appropriate amount of abuse over our air conditioning, etc., etc.
I didn't bother to tell them that, seeing as we spent most of our days out on the Malone Range Complex, the only thing we did in the AC was sleep at night (sometimes), which gave virtually all of us nasty upper respiratory infections. The grass is always greener, I suppose.
We were also one of the first classes that got to fire the XM-249 (SAW) for familiarization, and see the Bradley IFV while both were still in trials. Not sure when they finally went to PASGT helmets, but I definitely remember looking like a complete moron in my steel pot.
AC
1st ITB also. D-6-1 graduated 12-05-86.
Ah, the glory days of the 1st Infantry Training Brigade. I remember them well. =]
AC (B-5-1)
QuietShootr
05-24-11, 08:05
1st ITB also. D-6-1 graduated 12-05-86.
Checking in too - C-2-54 summer '88.
Checking in too - C-2-54 summer '88.
Since everyone is checking in:
D 1/38, summer 1990
E 1/38, summer 1991 (split option)
I had an A1 with A2 stock set during AIT.
Dude, I just KNEW that was going to come up. =]
My dad mever misses an opportunity to remind me he went through Harmony Church.
Ah, the glory days of the 1st Infantry Training Brigade. I remember them well. =]
AC (B-5-1)
I think I even still have one of my Echo 5 1 PT shirts stashed away still.
My dad mever misses an opportunity to remind me he went through Harmony Church.
A buddy of mine went in the same year a month after I did. He went to harmony church and made it sound like they hard a hard time polishing the floors and all.
Jeez I remember multiple nights a week "camping out" on the concrete drill/assy area because the senior drill said you ain't gonna dirty my brand new building you dirtbags. Coming in from the field and standing in line geared up weapon in hand getting hosed off a couple at a time to keep his new house clean was the mission.
That really sucked when it got cold in late october into november.
C-10-2 Harmony Church July-Oct, 84. One of the first Class' to recieve 2 BDU field jackets. Some of our drills still wore pickle suits.
H&R- Harrington and Richardson, M-16A1 with the three prong flash suppressor.
kest_01, you were supposed to turn those in if your in one of the BCT's:
up here at drum in the arms room we have 6 fnh a4s
They are left overs from a failed attempt of mine to get a MK-12 like rifle:sad: If you're over in the Sapper BN disrequard.
Now this is a 'flashback' thread, I guess I'll roger up.
B-10-2, Harmony Church, early '84. I went back a few years ago, and there are big trees where the 'church used to be. Made me feel old.
Don't remember what my '16 was, but it was an 'A1.
yugo308guy
05-30-11, 19:12
I was B-9-2 in '86. Harmony Church all the way! It sucked!
My dad mever misses an opportunity to remind me he went through Harmony Church.
Heh, my dad went through when there was no OSUT and he had to report to Ft.Polk for Infantry AIT after basic.
Anyways C 1/19 '06 time frame.
TXLowflyer
05-31-11, 18:50
10/1989 E 3/32 right across from the Sand Hill PX - Then Delta Rock at Airborne School We had Colt M16A2's
10/1989 E 3/32 right across from the Sand Hill PX - Then Delta Rock at Airborne SchoolHeh, I was in both of those same Companies at basic and Airborne, just 3 years later in '92.:cool:
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