View Full Version : EFFIN Hammerhead Barricade Support Device
ares armor
05-22-11, 20:08
We went a different route this time and didn't tell anyone what we were working on before it came out...
We would like to introduce our first machined weapon part.
http://www.aresarmor.com/install/media/ecom/prodsm/Hammerhead2.jpg
(http://www.aresarmor.com/install/ecom-prodshow/AA-HAM.html)
There is a short video on our product page here:
http://www.aresarmor.com/install/ecom-prodshow/AA-HAM.html
EDIT: forgot to mention the weight is 7 Oz / Machined from Aircraft Grade Billet Aluminum
LowSpeed_HighDrag
05-22-11, 21:17
Im going to Colorado this week for a few shooting events, I'd like to try this out just for the hell of it. I'll stop by the shop sometime this week as Im on leave. Does it mount to the bayo lug or a rail?
It's definately not on the bayo lug in that picture, so probably rail from my best guess.
And after you're done shooting you can tenderize your steak with it.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
05-22-11, 22:09
It's definately not on the bayo lug in that picture, so probably rail from my best guess.
Somehow I completely missed the pic of how it mounted haha, good catch.
It's definately not on the bayo lug in that picture, so probably rail from my best guess.
And after you're done shooting you can tenderize your steak with it.
hahah..very innovative! I can see this becoming very popular.
180 it and you've got a hand stop that won't quit :)
Sorry but I see this as just another gimmick like the magwell grip that no one really needs.
ares armor
05-23-11, 03:02
Sorry but I see this as just another gimmick like the magwell grip that no one really needs.
This device is intended for a very specific audience who has received it very warmly. Its not for you and that's ok. Thanks for your comment!
By the way we are having quite a bit of fun with this product, that's 85 percent of our goal :)
I don't really see much comparison between this and a magwell grip. the hammerhead has a very legitimate use. Especially w
ith comp shooters.
Jesus, that thing looks ANGRY! I could see for the application it is intended that it will perform well.
I guess I can see the use for competition shooters. But for anyone who has to carry their rifle for long periods of time, it would be 7 ounces of dead weight the vast majority of the time.
Sorry but I see this as just another gimmick like the magwell grip that no one really needs.
This. And I was taught not to get all up on your cover like that.
Interesting item. If I could offer some humble suggestions though. Weight would be a significant factor in anything I look at including that although it's target audience might preclude that from being an issue. You could perhaps make it a quick connect/remove type thing, or alternately hollow it out somehow. And 2, that price is a tad brutal, if you could combine it with some type of hand stop/grip function that would more significantly justify it I'd think than a high priced single/niche use item.
Although I don't see myself using/needing anything like this, I could envision some type of LEO function in a static/semi-static type of setup where it might be useful.
As for crowding cover, it kind of depends on the situation. If I'm in the only mudhut in the area overwatching the surrounding ao why not use it to solidify the shot. Not everyone has a handguard married up to their barrel. If i'm in a very active urban area and confusing situation where I can't guarantee what's going on outside that wall/window. Probably wouldn't find me doing that. This doesn't even touch upon just straight up guys who like to shoot simple home competitions who might use it. Not everyone in life is, or wants to be high speed/low drag. I personally think the grip pod is goofy as hell, but I've seen some high speed guys use that to very good effect too.
Everyone likes to cram their opinions in based on what they've seen or done. And since I haven't seen or done everything in life I'll humbly submit even though "I" don't cotton to this cup of tea, it might be nice for someone else.
ares armor
05-24-11, 01:04
Interesting item. If I could offer some humble suggestions though. Weight would be a significant factor in anything I look at including that although it's target audience might preclude that from being an issue. You could perhaps make it a quick connect/remove type thing, or alternately hollow it out somehow. And 2, that price is a tad brutal, if you could combine it with some type of hand stop/grip function that would more significantly justify it I'd think than a high priced single/niche use item.
Although I don't see myself using/needing anything like this, I could envision some type of LEO function in a static/semi-static type of setup where it might be useful.
As for crowding cover, it kind of depends on the situation. If I'm in the only mudhut in the area overwatching the surrounding ao why not use it to solidify the shot. Not everyone has a handguard married up to their barrel. If i'm in a very active urban area and confusing situation where I can't guarantee what's going on outside that wall/window. Probably wouldn't find me doing that. This doesn't even touch upon just straight up guys who like to shoot simple home competitions who might use it. Not everyone in life is, or wants to be high speed/low drag. I personally think the grip pod is goofy as hell, but I've seen some high speed guys use that to very good effect too.
Everyone likes to cram their opinions in based on what they've seen or done. And since I haven't seen or done everything in life I'll humbly submit even though "I" don't cotton to this cup of tea, it might be nice for someone else.
Thanks so much for the comment and the suggestions! Just to put things in perspective on the weight issue...
Military Grip Pod (a device intended to increase accuracy) = 7.8 Oz
We are actually coming in lighter than them.
Hollowing it out is actually a really good idea. Unfortunately as you mentioned our price point is about maxed out.
Also... We named it the "EFFIN" Hammerhead... we are taking this one very lightheartedly :) take a guess what EFFIN stands for...
Suwannee Tim
05-24-11, 04:53
The rifle depicted is painted gold, an interesting color for a firearm. What setting do you have in mind for gold camo?
wetidlerjr
05-24-11, 05:21
Another answer in search of a question (especially at that price). :cool:
take a guess what EFFIN stands for...
Extreme Forward Fighting Indexing Nodule? :D
wetidlerjr
05-24-11, 11:30
take a guess what EFFIN stands for...
Extreme Forward Fighting Indexing Nodule? :D
We have a winner ! :D
LowSpeed_HighDrag
05-24-11, 11:30
The rifle depicted is painted gold, an interesting color for a firearm. What setting do you have in mind for gold camo?
Are your Colors off on your screen Tim? That's what Socal looks like 95% of the time, until it rains of course.
Are your Colors off on your screen Tim? That's what Socal looks like 95% of the time, until it rains of course.
Even when it rains here in AZ it still looks like that. :jester:
COVERBUSTER
05-24-11, 15:00
Sorry but I see this as just another gimmick like the magwell grip that no one really needs.
AMEN.
Another solution looking for a problem.
I disagree. And believe me... I'm as anti Nonsense as is comes.
This thing strikes me as a valid baricade shooting aid just like the open class pistols have some of those barricade bars on them. It's not for the vast majority of us.
I am not a very gimiicky person when it comes to AR's. However, if you guys re-read what Ares is saying then it makes sense. This isn't for every Mall Ninja or AR flavor of the month gadget lover.
They are targeting certain end users and certain applications. I'd like to see some more feedback about it.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
05-24-11, 16:36
Poked my head in the store today and saw it in use. Much smaller in person, although I didnt get to handle it. It has a place in comp. shooting for sure.
I disagree. And believe me... I'm as anti Nonsense as is comes.
This thing strikes me as a valid baricade shooting aid just like the open class pistols have some of those barricade bars on them. It's not for the vast majority of us.
Markm is right. I spoke to one of the guys at Ares last week and he showed this to me then. The whole idea behind it is that you can put all of your weight up against a barricade and still have very stable and accurate full-auto fire. A palm sized (or head sized) group at 100m on full-auto is pretty good. This is the mindset that led to the creation of it. Coming from a company run by active duty Marines that have a pretty good idea about shooting behind a barricade, perimeter defense, checkpoint manning, etc., it is a well made and very logical tool for cetain types of activities.
The only real commercial application is competition, much the same as the Noveske barricade stop or resting a KAC handstop against a barricade for 3-gunning. It isn't something that really has much of a place for home defense, bench shooting, etc.
The guys at Ares know their shit, so it is a solution for a problem, not a solution looking for a problem.
Had some more ideas last night after I posted, which is funny because I really don't particularly like this. ;p But can see how some guys shooting certain ways really would.
You could really take a nice bit of weight off this (At a SWAG I'd say 20-25%) by running a 1/2" end mill vertically through the head part or alternately making three drilled holes through it (hell of a lot cheaper buying/sharpening drills I suppose) and possibly one through the center of the body without weakening it much structurally and still keeping most of the textured area. I was also thinking about some cop trying to watch over a barricaded shooter situation for hours on end and what a pain in the ass that might be and thought it might be nice to add a 1/4"-3/8" lip at the top front edge so it would "rest" or catch a window sill for example and not actually have to be "held into it" to be ready at a moments notice for someone running out. Still keeps the original function but adds a sort of "rest" feature to it. Good luck with your project.
Suwannee Tim
05-24-11, 17:14
Are your Colors off on your screen Tim? That's what Socal looks like 95% of the time, until it rains of course.
Don't tell me it is not gold LS_HD, I've already painted mine the same scheme.:eek: Got one of those Extreme Forceful Forward Fighting Intractable Noodle Nodules on order.:D I can't wait to show it to my buddies!;)
Dirtyboy333
05-24-11, 17:29
Sorry but I see this as just another gimmick like the magwell grip that no one really needs.
Agreed.
WOW, I expected this thing to be around $40. I guess maybe I just need to see it in person.
What would be a MAJOR advantage over say resting your railed forearm (with rubber ladders for traction) on a barricade/window besides a situation where you might need a little extra height?
This might make a little more sense on some type of LMG resting on a barricade but not a carbine.
Agreed.
WOW, I expected this thing to be around $40. I guess maybe I just need to see it in person.
What would be a MAJOR advantage over say resting your railed forearm (with rubber ladders for traction) on a barricade/window besides a situation where you might need a little extra height?
Resting it on, isn't going to give you the same solidity as driving it in.
It isn't that it's made from gold or a lot of parts. It's just a bit of a pain in the ass to machine cheaply.
Aren't there already other high quality options out there that do the same thing in a more practical manner? It looks way to big for the simple task it is doing and it seems that it would greatly impair a normal shooting grip when not in use.
Any pics with a normal shooting grip?
wetidlerjr
05-24-11, 19:53
...This isn't for every Mall Ninja or AR flavor of the month gadget lover.
They are targeting certain end users and certain applications. I'd like to see some more feedback about it.
That may well be but the price is simply too much. :cool:
ares armor
05-24-11, 21:03
Had some more ideas last night after I posted, which is funny because I really don't particularly like this. ;p But can see how some guys shooting certain ways really would.
You could really take a nice bit of weight off this (At a SWAG I'd say 20-25%) by running a 1/2" end mill vertically through the head part or alternately making three drilled holes through it (hell of a lot cheaper buying/sharpening drills I suppose) and possibly one through the center of the body without weakening it much structurally and still keeping most of the textured area. I was also thinking about some cop trying to watch over a barricaded shooter situation for hours on end and what a pain in the ass that might be and thought it might be nice to add a 1/4"-3/8" lip at the top front edge so it would "rest" or catch a window sill for example and not actually have to be "held into it" to be ready at a moments notice for someone running out. Still keeps the original function but adds a sort of "rest" feature to it. Good luck with your project.
Depending on how this one goes maybe will eventually make a Version 2 or something in the future. The client this was originally made for gave us a requirement of 5000 lb of direct pressure...
The Lip Idea is awesome and would be a great addition! Thanks.
Heartbreaker
05-24-11, 22:27
I get the concept, but half a pound on the end of a rail for something that won't see much use, and the cost on top of that... Maybe if it was polymer with a replaceable bolt-on aluminum or polymer knurled face, and cheap, I could see it's place in the market.
Dirtyboy333
05-24-11, 22:42
I get the concept, but half a pound on the end of a rail for something that won't see much use, and the cost on top of that... Maybe if it was polymer with a replaceable bolt-on aluminum or polymer knurled face, and cheap, I could see it's place in the market.
Thats exactly what i was thinking. Would save so much $ and some weight. Also add some type of durable rubberized bottom for traction.
Really? Have you ever been in the military which is who I assume may have let the requirement? If so, then you should know that they aren't always frugal.
Can the price come down? Sure. I can foresee it just like the Fusil magazines that were 49.00 a pop when they first came out. Quite possibly after AA reviews some of the comments here they may make some adjustments and refinements.
That may well be but the price is simply too much. :cool:
wetidlerjr
05-25-11, 04:10
Really? Have you ever been in the military which is who I assume may have let the requirement? If so, then you should know that they aren't always frugal.
Yes, USMC '66-'69 0311/7141
Can the price come down? Sure. I can foresee it just like the Fusil magazines that were 49.00 a pop when they first came out. Quite possibly after AA reviews some of the comments here they may make some adjustments and refinements.
I sure hope so.
:D...
ares armor
05-25-11, 13:46
:D...
At this point we are not able to even consider lowering the price. Trust me we would love for this thing to be under a $100 dollars.
It is machined from a solid chunk of aircraft grade aluminum and made 100% in the states.
This is a specialty item and we will not be producing thousands of these at a time. This limits our buying power and thus limits our ability to lower cost.
Unless this thing takes off in a direction that we are not expecting price is pretty much stuck were its at for the time being.
Having this produced over seas is not an option for us. We refuse to pay anyone that is not in the U.S. for labor. If other companies chose to support the Chinese economy that is their decision and we respect that. Our Company policies specifically prohibits it and we will not be changing that anytime in the future.
ares armor
05-25-11, 13:47
In a couple of months we will be able to release exactly who this was originally made for and who is currently using it.
I promise you will be shocked haha.
Serpico1985
05-25-11, 16:55
I don't understand why a large percentage of folks are $hiting on this thing. Most shooters will never need it, for some shooters it will probably help out in a very specific way and probably do so expectionally well. Made in America, by americans, machined out of big hunks of aliminum for a VERY small market, I can see the price where its at. Good luck Ares, looking forward to hearing who requested it.
ares armor
05-25-11, 17:21
Thats exactly what i was thinking. Would save so much $ and some weight. Also add some type of durable rubberized bottom for traction.
This device is intended to be repeatedly slammed in to different surfaces such as brick/wood/metal etc. We originally designed one that had a polymer body with a metal plate system. under simulated computer testing of the strength tolerances it failed to meet requirements that were set forth.
Because of the size of the market this is intended for an injection molded part would could have actually raised the end price of it. We would have to make up for the cost of tooling etc. average mold price for something like that could be around 10k.
I don't understand why a large percentage of folks are $hiting on this thing. Most shooters will never need it, for some shooters it will probably help out in a very specific way and probably do so expectionally well. Made in America, by americans, machined out of big hunks of aliminum for a VERY small market, I can see the price where its at. Good luck Ares, looking forward to hearing who requested it.
I don't think people are shitting on it at all. I think you have to expect on this board for people to look at things objectively and honestly and call it the way that they see it, especially when its in GD and not in the industry section.
It's a small niche market for this, but in theory you could expand that segment by offering a well thought out part that would appeal to a broader base. There are similar parts on the market that offer a bracketing system and that is what this is competing with, so discussion on price and versatility should be expected. This is nothing negative about AA as they certainly make some nice products.
wetidlerjr
05-25-11, 18:20
I don't understand why a large percentage of folks are $hiting on this thing....
If you put something out for comments you will get them. Some will not be what you want to hear. It's easy to understand. :cool:
ares armor
05-25-11, 19:09
If you put something out for comments you will get them. Some will not be what you want to hear. It's easy to understand. :cool:
Feed back is what we are looking for! Any and all comments are welcome...
Dirtyboy333
05-25-11, 19:18
This device is intended to be repeatedly slammed in to different surfaces such as brick/wood/metal etc. We originally designed one that had a polymer body with a metal plate system. under simulated computer testing of the strength tolerances it failed to meet requirements that were set forth.
Because of the size of the market this is intended for an injection molded part would could have actually raised the end price of it. We would have to make up for the cost of tooling etc. average mold price for something like that could be around 10k.
Oh ok. I guess I really didn't realize the cost of injection mOlding.
I am very anxious to find out who's using it.
As others have said, we're not shitting on the product. When companies post their trying to get a feel for what the AR community thinks. I really doubt they want us to lie to them and give them false expectations of projected civilian sales.
ETA: I really commend you guys for manufacturing stateside. It's hard to compete when price wise but on most products I think people wouldn't mind paying a lil extra for
Serpico1985
05-25-11, 19:40
Good point d90king, didn't think of it that way, I was too critical of the constructive criticism.
I have a question in reference to this device. You said something about 5000lbs this thing had to take. Is there any issue with the attachment method breaking? Is it held on by normal screws? Could it put too much tension on the free float rails?
The VTAC/TROY 2" accessory rail works for me (on a VTAC or Troy XTR rail, obviously). Small, lightweight, and can be used for both forward push or rearward pull.
Not so heavy duty, but it's lightweight - and it's also a mount for a bi-pod.
ares armor
05-25-11, 20:37
Good point d90king, didn't think of it that way, I was too critical of the constructive criticism.
I have a question in reference to this device. You said something about 5000lbs this thing had to take. Is there any issue with the attachment method breaking? Is it held on by normal screws? Could it put too much tension on the free float rails?
Its one of those strange requirements where they wanted the device to withstand a specified weight. It was tested as a stand alone as we are not producing the rails that it will be mounted on. I am sure that MOE Magpul ones like in the picture will not withstand anything near that.
I agree. But, there is a difference between comments that have some bearing to them and comments made just so they can read them.
I think somewhere people are losing sight of the following.
1. This was intended for a particular entity and not for the civilian market.
2. Ares probably spent some time and money developing it and then of course as they stated due to various restraints and requirements are making them in smaller batches which means more cost.
3. They release said item to public for xxxx amount. They have done a pretty good job of explaining the costs involved and why they did what they did.
If you put something out for comments you will get them. Some will not be what you want to hear. It's easy to understand. :cool:
wetidlerjr
05-26-11, 07:16
I agree. But, there is a difference between comments that have some bearing to them and comments made just so they can read them.
I think somewhere people are losing sight of the following.
1. This was intended for a particular entity and not for the civilian market.
2. Ares probably spent some time and money developing it and then of course as they stated due to various restraints and requirements are making them in smaller batches which means more cost.
3. They release said item to public for xxxx amount. They have done a pretty good job of explaining the costs involved and why they did what they did.
And I did see Fusil mags for $7.99 from CDNN yesterday so with this it may just be a matter of time. Also, Ares Armor has been very understanding about the criticism which does speak well for them. I would have, probably, been pissed if it was me. :cool:
ares armor
05-26-11, 15:32
And I did see Fusil mags for $7.99 from CDNN yesterday so with this it may just be a matter of time. Also, Ares Armor has been very understanding about the criticism which does speak well for them. I would have, probably, been pissed if it was me. :cool:
Learned not to take things to heart. Plus everyone has an opinion and its good for us to hear it. We really do appreciate the feedback!
Thomas M-4
05-27-11, 00:00
I just use my KAC hand stop does the same thing no more less steady than monopoding off the magazine.
wetidlerjr
06-27-11, 17:07
I hate to bring up this fairly old thread, but I need to know:
....
This isn't the Joke forum.
Just something to think about for size, use of materials, and weight...
While having no personal experience with the product, it looks TOUGH. It looks to me like it is actually tougher than most rails than it will be attached to, which doesn't make sense to me.
Could you "Skeletonize" it some? I think something as low-profile as a handstop would hold up to the same kind of abuse. However, the larger "face" of your hammerhead is obviously more useful.
This isn't the Joke forum.
And I wasn't joking. I really wanted to know. I guess my question was irrelevant, because it's been deleted. Maybe it's time to reevaluate my opinion of this forum...
parishioner
06-27-11, 19:43
Maybe it's time to reevaluate my opinion of this forum...
If you honestly think this device has any practical use on a handgun, you probably should.
If you honestly think this device has any practical use on a handgun, you probably should.
Actually rather similar to devices used on unlimited division pistols a few years ago.
If you honestly think this device has any practical use on a handgun, you probably should.
For me this device has no practical use (period). I thought it might be fun on a handgun. It's just a simple technical question, really.
parishioner
06-27-11, 22:46
Actually rather similar to devices used on unlimited division pistols a few years ago.
Interesting. Do you have any photos of some? Not doubting you, I've just never seen them on pistols, competition ones included. I can't imagine they would be as large as this particular barricade device.
http://www.gun-tests.com/performance/mar96action.html
http://gunseditor.wordpress.com/2009/06/10/kim-stroud%E2%80%99s-bianchi-cup-pistol-sweet-accuracy/
http://www.bayoushooter.com/forums/showthread.php?55957-I-m-going-backwards....heellllpp-meee...(pics-added)&p=715518&viewfull=1#post715518post 18 & 29
Was hard to find decent pics but you get the idea.
parishioner
06-27-11, 23:49
Cool. Those are considerably more low profile compared to the hammerhead. The imagery of the hammerhead mounted on a glock considering it's size and agressive texturing just struck me as silly and obnoxious, hence my initial response.
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