View Full Version : Optic suggestions for an UMP
I recently had my USC converted to an UMP and have had my fill of the stock sights. I have the 16" barrel still on it and will probably keep it that way since I live in CT and can't fold the stock. I checked out a new EOTech but to be completely honest, I hated it. It's just not precise enough for me. I currently have an Aimpoint Pro on my AR and was thinking about either picking another or putting it on the HK and getting something different for my AR. I'd love an acog but that's a lot of money considering that I also need to pick up fore grip for the HK and I'm in love with the Crimson Trace MVF with the green laser. Everything is pointing towards getting another Aimpoint Pro aside from the fact that I'd love to have something different. I'd love to increase my effective range on my AR through some added magnification. I plan on shooting the HK 50-100 yards out (mostly 50). I'm open to suggestions...thanks for your help.
Luckystiff
05-22-11, 23:14
T-1 for the UMP ... or the PRO on the HK and a TA-33 for the AR.
I prefer to use a RDS with a larger field of view. I'm actually having good luck with a basic C More. I don't think the T1 will co witness on the UMP anyway, and that in my mind is the only reason to use one.
http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/6407/p1003831ku1.jpg
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-23-11, 17:52
I prefer to use a RDS with a larger field of view. I'm actually having good luck with a basic C More. I don't think the T1 will co witness on the UMP anyway, and that in my mind is the only reason to use one.
http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/6407/p1003831ku1.jpg
There is no 'field of view' if you keep both eyes open, nes pa???
Sweet SBR, have a write-up on it?
El Pistolero
05-23-11, 19:51
Have you considered the Trijicon RMR? Seems like a nice little RDS for such a rifle but I have no experience with it, I have only used the Primary Arms M3 on my airsoft UMP but I'm sure that doesn't count for anything on this forum.
SteyrAUG, I am jealous! I envy those that own a converted and SBRed USC, that is one must-have gun that I hope to one day acquire though the cost of the USC+conversion has put me off for a long time. There is no sexier SMG in my opinion.
Well I found a great used Acog (ta33-8) that's going to go on my AR and I'm going to move my Aimpoint Pro over to the HR.
Nice picture by the way...I had to pick up a P30L to keep my UMP company too lol.
http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/2273/001bmz.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/545/001bmz.jpg/) Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
There is no 'field of view' if you keep both eyes open, nes pa???
Sweet SBR, have a write-up on it?
Well there kinda is.
With any tube there is a tendency to have to find the target inside it. I understand with a 1x you can go both eyes open and just superimpose the red dot on the image.
But some people, like myself, can do that much faster with single plane optics like C Mores and Eotechs. And as a result I am able to watch my environment much more effectively as well.
Anytime I use a tube optic like Aimpoints or Trijicons there is a tendency to use it like a traditional scope. It took awhile for me to learn how to shoot both eyes open after decades of doing it the old fashioned way.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/HK%20Stuff/P1000698.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/HK%20Stuff/P1000701.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/HK%20Stuff/P1000698.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/HK%20Stuff/P1000701.jpg
Does that T1 actually co witness the iron sights?
Does that T1 actually co witness the iron sights?
Yup. If anything though, that thick plastic hood on the front sight is distracting, however, after some time on it you don't notice it nearly as much.
That's the factory mount/optic, no riser.
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-24-11, 00:40
Well there kinda is.
With any tube there is a tendency to have to find the target inside it. I understand with a 1x you can go both eyes open and just superimpose the red dot on the image.
But some people, like myself, can do that much faster with single plane optics like C Mores and Eotechs. And as a result I am able to watch my environment much more effectively as well.
Anytime I use a tube optic like Aimpoints or Trijicons there is a tendency to use it like a traditional scope. It took awhile for me to learn how to shoot both eyes open after decades of doing it the old fashioned way.
I know what you mean. It isn't so much FOV, but the 'cone' behind the optic that you have to have your eyeball in to have the red dot in some kind of possible impact point.
Nice pics Templar, you are a man of few words. ;)
Yup. If anything though, that thick plastic hood on the front sight is distracting, however, after some time on it you don't notice it nearly as much.
That's the factory mount/optic, no riser.
No kidding.
Does the red dot POA coincide with the iron sight POA or does it sit above?
I was using a T1 on a UMP awhile back and you could barely see the top of the iron sights inside the aimpoint. Must have been a higher mount.
That is one thing I love about ARs, my favorite RDS setups perfectly match the iron sights. Usually with HKs and SIGs I have to do a see through riser mount which gives me crappy "in the box" iron sights and a very high RD setup.
If that T1 does the job, I may have to start getting used to them.
Just put the T1 far back like templar has on that bowcaster, the field of view will be good.
I have a 512 on mine. If I were buying an optic for the gun today, after using different models(512 was the first optic I ever bought/used), I would buy a T1.
http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt358/kdcgrohl/firearms/firearms33.jpg
Yup. If anything though, that thick plastic hood on the front sight is distracting, however, after some time on it you don't notice it nearly as much.
That's the factory mount/optic, no riser.
Templar, if I go with an Aimpoint Pro and the standard included mount am I going to suffer from sight interference from the hood as well? Is there a riser that you could recommend if that is the case? Thanks
Templar, if I go with an Aimpoint Pro and the standard included mount am I going to suffer from sight interference from the hood as well? Is there a riser that you could recommend if that is the case? Thanks
I honestly don't know, but it sounds like you're the man who's going to be able to supply the answers.....;)
I honestly don't know, but it sounds like you're the man who's going to be able to supply the answers.....;)
Well it's hard to tell without taking my current Aimpoint Pro off of my AR and slapping it on the HK. I put them up against each other and the AR front sight is definitely taller than the UMP. If anything it looks like what you would need to do is cut a chunk out of the hood (making it from an "O" shape to a "U") to give yourself a better view for cowitnessing. Otherwise it seems like you're going to look right over the top of it.
I really just wanna move it to see but every time I take it off my AR I always lose my zero even though I have it at a marked location. I know, I'm being a silly by not just moving it, but I need to have this gun perfect for the next time I shoot (long story). The only way I'm taking the Aimpoint off is if I get that Acog in time to replace it lol.
Alaskapopo
05-26-11, 04:03
Well there kinda is.
With any tube there is a tendency to have to find the target inside it. I understand with a 1x you can go both eyes open and just superimpose the red dot on the image.
But some people, like myself, can do that much faster with single plane optics like C Mores and Eotechs. And as a result I am able to watch my environment much more effectively as well.
Anytime I use a tube optic like Aimpoints or Trijicons there is a tendency to use it like a traditional scope. It took awhile for me to learn how to shoot both eyes open after decades of doing it the old fashioned way.
I shoot everything with both eyes opened. When I was in a basic sniper class a few years back I remember wondering what the big black thing was in my field of view while shooting and it was the paralax knob on my Nightforce scope. With the proper training you will find that shooting with both eyes open is better (faster) with all sighting systems including irons.
Pat
I honestly don't know, but it sounds like you're the man who's going to be able to supply the answers.....;)
I just got it the other day and mounted it. I sits high and you can barely see the top of the hooded front sight through the recticle. You also can't use the rear sight as it's too low, so it doesn't cowitness properly. Not sure what to do as a riser will make sit even higher. I'm open to suggestions. I might have time to shoot it later today. I'm starting to wonder if it can even be sighted in properly. Any suggestions?
Templar, if I go with an Aimpoint Pro and the standard included mount am I going to suffer from sight interference from the hood as well? Is there a riser that you could recommend if that is the case? Thanks
The PRO comes with a riser. The riser is intended for AR-15 use.
I shoot everything with both eyes opened. When I was in a basic sniper class a few years back I remember wondering what the big black thing was in my field of view while shooting and it was the paralax knob on my Nightforce scope. With the proper training you will find that shooting with both eyes open is better (faster) with all sighting systems including irons.
Pat
The problem is not shooting both eyes open. That is how I shoot every RDS setup I have. The problem is a residual tendency on my part to want to find the target inside the tube and as a result that makes the "faster method" slower for me. I still can't do it with a bench scope regardless of correct training by many qualified "frustrated" instructors.
I wish I could do it. I agree that it is probably a superior way of doing it. But for some reason I cannot do it with a bench scope regardless of how many hours I invest in the attempt. I can only do it with low or no magnification optics (3x being my approximate both eyes open threshold.)
But I can do it with RDS now, and I am most effective if I am using a single plane optic like an eotech.
Given that the T1 co witnesses with a lot of my lower sight setups like HKs and SIGs I am going to take the summer to finally get used to them. I think this is one thing I will be able to successfully overcome, I just never had a reason to do it before as things like Eotechs and C Mores solved the issue for me.
I shot with the Pro on my UMP conversion twice this past weekend and there's no way to cowitness the two without some additional modifactions to the gun. While the optic sits high I was able to zero it in.
I shot with the Pro on my UMP conversion twice this past weekend and there's no way to cowitness the two without some additional modifactions to the gun. While the optic sits high I was able to zero it in.
One of the super low rings for the Aimpoint might do it, I bought one of the Springfield Scout rings when I first mounted a M2 to my SLR-106. It's a very low ring, not qd, and it would co witness on the AK.
It sounds like you'll have to look at one of the Aimpoint Micro's with the factory non qd mount.
bodyarmorguy
08-28-12, 13:34
I know that this thread is a little over a year old....sorry, but I have a UMP on the way, hopefully by the end of the week, and am still trying to decide on the optic to use....I have both Eotec and Aimpoint Comp sitting in the safe not attached to anything....or purchase a T1? Decision, decisions.
The biggest trick has been finding magazine but I have located a guy in Tampa that seems to get them regularly, two arrived from him today and I just ordered 2 more as well.
The UMP begs for a T1. Big improvement from the 512.
http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt358/kdcgrohl/firearms/IMG_20110809_200030.jpg
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