Help with 1911 for basic Gunsmith work

[S45]

I am interested in taking the Vickers Tactical Gunsmith Class sometime in the next year. In the meantime, I would like to start learning the in and outs of the 1911 platform. Would there be a good base gun to start doing work on, or would I be better off buying a frame, slide, and parts?

I have a chance to get a Colt 70 series from 1979 that is in great shape for $650. Should I buy that, or would that be a no-no to modify an original?

[nobody knows]

I personally would not tinker with an original 79 colt if you don't have much experience with the platform . But if you want it for collecting purposes I'd say buy it. The decision to start with a frame/slide or a base gun really depends on what you want to do with it and how much experience you have. If you just want to learn about the platform get a base colt to play around with. They are relatively cheap and they are a good base for a quality gun wen you gain experience.
If your an experienced armorer or have lot's of experience fixing/fitting your own parts and you know exactly what you want get a frame/slide. Just my 2¢

[S45]

Thanks for the response. I don't have any experience with the 1911 other than shooting and basic field stripping. When you say base Colt model, do you mean one of the newer production models?

[QuickStrike]

This is probably the only time that getting a cheaper 1911 is a good idea. But not so cheap as to deal with all the out of spec parts...

I personally wouldn't mess with any series 70 colt in good condition without some knowledge (cuz I like them :p ). Maybe just fitting FPS and adjusting extractors, etc, small stuff.

Maybe find a used springfield mil-spec/GI or similar to learn on?

[Dave Berryhill]

....Maybe find a used springfield mil-spec/GI or similar to learn on?

DING DING DING! We have a winner!

A couple of comments:

I usually recommend that you learn to gunsmith on a working 1911 instead of building from scratch. That way you can do one modification at a time, test fire it and troubleshoot it if necessary. If you make one change at a time and it stops working then you know what caused the problem.

If you buy a POS pistol just because it is inexpensive and try to work on it, you can end up chasing your tail trying to troubleshoot if if the steel is soft and the parts are out of spec. There aren't too many pistols that are both affordable and have sufficient quality so it doesn't inhibit your learning. Those Springfields usually meet both of those criteria, especially if you can find a nice used one.

Most people are afraid to carve up a Colt just because it's a Colt but I'm not that enamored by the prancing pony. I've worked on plenty of them that should have never made it past QC and out of the factory, as have most other pistolsmiths.

[S45]

Thanks again to everyone. My plan was to do this all very slowly starting with complete disassembly and reassembly till it is second nature, then one part at a time. I really like the platform and seeing what some people can do to it, especially some of the nice ones on your page Mr. Berryhill, it makes me appreciate it even more.

[RD62]

I think a basic SA milspec is also a good choice. But if you pass on a $650 Colt Series 70 to customize with Larry Vickers let me know where it is!

[Norinco]

A Colt Series 70 for $650!? **** yeah!

[Ttwwaack]

As an attendee of LAV's class the first thing you need to do is get both Kuhnhausen books. Next purchase would be the Colt Series 70.:D

I would have to strongly urge you to listen to Mr Berryhills advice. Once you attend the class, you will understand. Basically, your not building an AR or a Glock, plug and play is out the window when you start building from scratch. Having a working demo in front of you to study the parts interactions makes it alot easier to understand when you run into a wall. If you are buildng from scratch, you have to fit and test the parts individually, as a sub-group, and as a whole pistol for every part.

Read the class AAR's posted in the training section. The next two classes, (Oct in TX and Winter in Omaha) are full as of a month ago. Now that Grey Group started handling his class enrollment, I would contact them about class and location availability.

I personally had done beavertails, some trigger work and finishing prior to the class just tinkering around. I felt as I was drowning in information during the class.

My recommendations would be start slowly aquiring the tool list for the class and read, re-read and yes again until you understand what Kuhnhausen is talking about. Learn the interactions of the different parts in the pistol (Colt Series 70). If you have questions, about what Kuhnhausen is talking about, research it at the 1911 Forum. There is tons of information there, you just have to search it out. Start thinking of your questions for class. I probably had 20-30 questions written down before class that I wanted to know about before I went to the class. Each night while writing notes I would write more questions down to ask in the morning to clarify my notes. Get the most out of the class while you are there.

For the class, bring a lap top and start writing your notes every evening. Be financially prepared to build a second pistol following the completion of the class while all the information is still fresh in your (and your classmates) head(s). Take pics of everything, you can always trash them later.

[Dave Berryhill]

...Start thinking of your questions for class. I probably had 20-30 questions written down before class that I wanted to know about before I went to class. Each night while writing notes I would write more questions down and ask in the morning to clarify my notes. Get the most out of the class while you are there.

For the class, bring a lap top and start writing your notes every evening. ....

Excellent advice. I took the Cylinder & Slide 1 week class many years ago (before laptops and digital cameras were common) and scribbled notes all day long. Each night I re-wrote them while they were still fresh in my mind and I could decipher my hieroglyphics.

[S45]

Ttwwaack,

Thanks for the well written and thought out response. I will be using all of the information you provided. I would not be going to one of the Vickers courses until 2012. In the meantime, I can pour over the books and get as much knowledge as possible about the 1911.

As far as the Colt, it looks like that will be the gun I will be buying. I searched all of the stores in my area and the cheapest I can find is over $500 for new or used Springfields. Colts start at $800 new or used.

Any other info you guys can think of would be appreciated.

[wetidlerjr]

Ttwwaack,Thanks for the well written and thought out response. I will be using all of the information you provided. I would not be going to one of the Vickers courses until 2012. In the meantime, I can pour over the books and get as much knowledge as possible about the 1911.
As far as the Colt, it looks like that will be the gun I will be buying. I searched all of the stores in my area and the cheapest I can find is over $500 for new or used Springfields. Colts start at $800 new or used.
Any other info you guys can think of would be appreciated.

I second the Kuhnhausen books which I own even though I AM NOT a gunsmith and I don't pretend to be. Those books are outstanding just to increase your understanding of the 1911 platform. :D

[sinjinhawk]

My take on this subject is for you to buy the Colt series 70', but don't mess with it for now. Purchased a well used SA for the purposed of learning how to gunsmith the 1911 flatform. Someday when you are very proficient with the 1911 flatform, then that will be the time you do some modification to your series 70, make sense? no!

[Norseman]

In my opinion you cant go wrong with the advice on getting a Springer mil-spec or GI, I recently took the same 1 week build class through C&S and the guns were provided to us and included in the cost of the course, all were Mil-specs which i personally thought was a great deal simply because like Mr. Berryhill stated you start with a decent basic working gun that you are not afraid to take a file to and really learn by doing and not from fear of ruining the gun.

Just be prepared to build another one after the course, it can get addictive.

Just my .02 cents.

[sinjinhawk]

Mr. Berryhill is absolutely correct. It's very addictive!!! Once you have proficiently learn
how to do, fit, and lightly customized your 1911 pistol, you will constanly on a look out to get another one for your next built even before you have finished the one you are doing.