View Full Version : Leupold CQBSS First Impressions
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-24-11, 01:54
Actually not first impressions, I've had it over a month and shot it on two different rifles in two different competitions, but I didn't want to over promise since I don't have a lot of pics.
I have the CQBSS version with the TMR reticle on it, mounted in a Larue mount. The scope has a nice feel to it. Pretty easy to grab the power ring, its the back third of the scope, and turn it. The relatively high mounting of AR optics helps to allow me to get my hand around it. No parallax to fiddle with. The windage and elevation knobs are trully inspired, they are not going to move unless you are grabbing from both sides, and I've never failed to get the knobs to move from a bad grip. Like good technology, it keeps you from getting into trouble, and it is barely noticable that they are there. You need an allen wrench to rezero them, I've been spoiled by my Premier knobs. By how high you set the knobs you can limit the knobs to one turn. The elevation knob is marked for MK262 out past 700m. Illumination knob works well with 10 levels and and off inbetween settings.
It is with the illumination that this scope gets kind of squirrely, and at $3400+ sales prices I've seen, you shouldn't have squirrels you should have mink. Bone head me left the scope on, with a pretty fresh battery, on a fairly high setting. When I got back to the rifle the battery was dead. S&B Short Dots auto off to preserve batteries don't they. Actually figuring out the battery was dead was another issue and the biggest drawback to the scope. A step back first.
I have the the TMR reticle version, not the uber-ninja holographic low power dot with the Horus reticle. Not nocking the TMR reticle, I'll talk about that when I talk about the optics. The issue is that the reticle is not day light illumination visible. Dun-dun-dun.... Something that scopes a quarter of the price seem to have figured out, Leupold has not put into their "Hey we can make real tactical scopes" offering. I confirmed with another CQBSS owner and he concurred that it is not day light visible. Does it make the scope unusable, not by a long shot-- but to go from the low power DAYLIGHT visible dot in the Horus scope to a non day light reticle seems a bit odd. I noticed it mostly during the matches when I had to shoot black steel targets. You can still see the reticle, it just gets a little more difficult, especially when you are using hold overs. I've looked thru the Horus/Dot version (for only like a minute), and while it was a bot odd- it was red till viewed a bit off kilter and then it turned green- at least it gave you a nice red dot for low power shooting.
And I think that is the biggest issue, with out the a daylight lit feature, the scope isn't nearly as fast close up as it could be. They can get the Red dot lit well enough, why not the TMR reticle???
Moving on, the optics are great. Edge to edge clarity, razor sharp. (I know, everyone says that about their scopes like everyone is an above average driver). I've shot it out to 400 yards and could read bullet hits like I was looking at the back of my hand. The 1.1 works like a 1x to me- no issues when I've tested it out or in matches. From 4-8x the reticle comes into its own and is very readable. The first match I used it on an LMT MWS, but the longest shots were 100 yards. Even a lot of the shorter range targets were head shots or tight shots, so 3-4 magnification helped me to be precise and know that I had neutralized the target.
The most challenging stage was at Pueblo's Rifle match where I ran it on my JP 556 upper. The first bank of targets were at about 15 yards and you needed head shots, so I started out at 1.1 and engaged them. You then had to engage IPSC target at about 400 yards, so I cranked it to 8x and used the reticle to hold over. You then had to engage 4 swingers at 150-230 yards, along a hillside, so I cranked it to about 4x and engaged them. You then had to move to three other shooting postions and engage the same IPSC and four targets. The IPSC got a bit closer, and the 4 disks got about 25-30 yards farther away. I did the same dialing back and forth to help my accuracy at 400 and dialing it back to help with the hillside targets. This really showed how the scope shines. On longer range targets the TMR held true and allowed me not to have to fiddle with the elevation knobs.
Another stage had a VTAC wall and a single reduced size IPSC target at 125 yards. My first time shooting the wall and I didn't have experience with the positions. I had the scope dialed to 3-4, and the lowest holes gave me fits as I tried to get behind the scope. A bit of an issue with eye relief, but that is more an issue with my ergonomics than the scopes, and a had a bit more mag on than I should have. An illuminated reticel might have nade me feel better about where the POA was on the black IPSC target.
Going to cut this a bit short. Got a head cold and I took some Nyquill and thought I'd type faster than I have, and its been a long day.
All in all a great scope, outside the un-illuminated illumination set-up. It really is hard to judge since I think its direct peers- the S&B and Premier are still not out- and the CQBSS has been in the field for awhile. If those are everything they are claimed to be, the CQBSS will take a beating. It is really hard to damn the CQBSS when its peers are still not on the market.
Here's hoping Leupold figure out the illumination, or figures out a cheaper way to do the red dot like on the Horus models.
They can get the Red dot lit well enough, why not the TMR reticle???
It has to do with the technology used to light the dot. S&B basically crams an Aimpoint into their scope, it uses an LED the same way an Aimpoint would.
The CQBSS has the holographic technology, which is just more of the same.
Reticles are illuminated by bouncing light off of a special paint applied to the reticle. This methond is horribly inefficient. The SWFA scopes are bright, but at the highest setting the battery life is pretty bad. I'll go as far to say it just sucks. I'm sure that will make some readers happy. ;)
Singlestack Wonder
05-26-11, 13:27
Thanks for the review. Illumination is a big disappointment. Seems like the CQBSS offers a much higher price than proven optics such as S&B yet comes up short on new innovations.
Belmont31R
05-26-11, 13:38
Yes id heard about the shifting color of the illumination from other people, too.
This is where patience comes in. The CQBSS has been released in a little quantity with lots of them ending up in big names hand's to get the advertising (they gave them away for free). The person you got that scope from was mightily disappointed when I broke it to him his scope he just ordered wouldn't have the dot.
Im not sure if the SB 1-8X will have reticle illumination being day light visible. Its not on my 3-12. But the 1-8X has both the dot and reticle illumination (not at the same time). I know the dot will be day light visible.
And yeah id go through batteries pretty damn quick if I didnt have an auto shut off on my 1-4X SD.
Have you tried a cat tail on any other scopes? Although it sticks out a bit its a great visual and/or tactile feel for what the scope is set at. Just having a huge area on the scope to change magnification doesn't seem ideal to me. Its like a press check. No need to actually focus on the scope's tiny little numbers and a dot.
To be honest...mine sucks. If I hadn't gotten it for a good sized discount I'd be really dissapointed.
Maybe I expected it to work like advertised, with a fast 1.1x daylight illumination, but it was just a mess overall. Leupold will remain as the guys first out of the gate, but they when the dust settles I have a feeling S&B will have a more solid product for a better price point.
Till then I'm still happy I'm near the front of the line for a S&B 1.1-8x. Looks to be a better reticle (Sorry, I'm not paying 600 dollars more for the horus which THEN gets me the daytime dot), better turrets, better zoom ring design, etc, doesn't require a set of allen wrenches to adjust, etc.
I didn't get mine for free, like mentioned, so as I look at it, paying a good chunk of change...I just have to be critical about it.
Belmont31R
05-26-11, 13:52
I would prefer allen screws. The coin slots on the 1-4X SD are complete shit. I have to dig in my pocket for a coin that fits and now after doing zero checks and changing the optic from a few guns the slots look about like a bag of pastrami thats been out in the sun for a week. Theres no actual 'tool' Ive found besides a stupid quarter or nickel that will work, and then if they've set for a while its really hard to turn with such little grip space and leverage on a coin. When Im at home Ive stuck a nickel in a set of channel locks. Stupid on a 2500 optic.
The premier setup being tool less seems pretty good. I worry about allen screws stripping out being so small. I went to fastenal and got a bunch of spares for what I do have that uses them.
The 1-8 from S&B uses a system where once your zero is set you pull up on the turret, set it to zero, and the turret locks back down. I thought this was the case on the 1-4 as well?
Belmont31R
05-26-11, 14:04
The 1-8 from S&B uses a system where once your zero is set you pull up on the turret, set it to zero, and the turret locks back down. I thought this was the case on the 1-4 as well?
No the 1-4X has coin slots. You have the turret cap with slot, the drum, and an inner cam. The cap holds everything in place. There are dials for elevation and windage. So you set the dials to zero, put the cam and drum on, and then tighten it down with the caps.
Its simple to zero but the coin slot caps are a PITA and its embarrasing to pull out a 5 cent piece to 'fix' your scope.
Looking on the SB .de site it almost looks like I see an allen head hole on the top turret on the 1-8X.
This pic shows the slots:
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/BM31R/88f35d5d.jpg
You can see how chewed up they are from using coins. The same thing happened to the Gen 1 I had, too.
Belmont31R
05-26-11, 14:06
Never mind it has the cam/drum/cap setup as the 1-4X.....
http://longrangesupply.com/images/S&B-1-8x24.jpg
I've changed our two Short Dots around on the work guns and re-zeroed them countless of times.
Do the turret caps look a little dinged now, yes. Is it a problem to me, no.
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-27-11, 00:20
I think 'suck' might be a bit strong. Failed to meet expectations is a better way to say it, like a bad blind date.
I think the biggest issue is that it doesn't do a god job at 1.1 because reticle gets too small and the illumination is usefull only in dark shade. The sad thing is that when I look at it inside with reticle at 1x, it is a pretty good aiming system, since the mil dots aren't lit and the posts makes a nice big aiming system with the center fairly clear since the reticle is so small.
So if it isn't good at 1x, I think it makes a great 3-8 scope. In shooting the Pueblo rifle match I was lower third of the group when it was based on unfamiliar shooting positions, but I was top third where there was the fairly straight forward shooting postions. That means to me that I'm the weak link but when I'm not holding it back the CQBSS on that JP upper just rocks. That FFP Mil dot just makes it silly stupid to make hits out to 400 yards, even in some mild wind and targets scattered around a hillside.
The problem to me is there are a lot of great scopes out there if you cut out the 1.1x requirement. First in my thoughts are the 2.5-10NF (no FFP reticle though) or the Great offerings from USO. I'd go with the USO 2-10 set-up and add a RDS at the side.
Or just wait for the S&B or Premier(good luck). That said, they aren't out yet and are not a known quantity, so it is really hard to condemn Leupold when the others can't even get theirs out thedoor yet.
Just when I thought Leupold had wrung the suck out of their scopes, they take the Horus/Red Dot out of the scope and put the suck back in.
Here's hoping that Leupold can figure out a way to boost the output of the reticle at 1x and offer to retrofit the scopes.
Can't wait to hear Titleist's thoughts on the S&B scope.
Fair enough, but Leupold certainly pulled a bait and switch with the fact that the illuminated reticle is borderline worthless for anything but low light. As you said if this wasn't a 1.1x optic it wouldn't be an issue, but its insufferably slow up close vs a reddot (which was the whole selling point behind the short dot concept).
4000 (for those of us not getting them free) for Leupold's version of S&B's Short Dot + 8x optics just doesn't sit right. It's not a 'BAD' scope, it's just not particularly well made at least with the version I and ColdDeadHands have.
I think the S&B will be the one to beat, and word is that they're starting to ship to some dealers in VERY LIMITED quantities and should filter out later this summer (fingers are crossed for my SWFA order). S&B has the track record to back up their product. I've never been all that impressed with Leupold's product, so we'll see what happens when the dust settles.
The problem to me is there are a lot of great scopes out there if you cut out the 1.1x requirement. First in my thoughts are the 2.5-10NF (no FFP reticle though) or the Great offerings from USO. I'd go with the USO 2-10 set-up and add a RDS at the side.
I'm disappointed. I was really, really wanting one of the 1.1-8x and thinking about replacing my NXS, but this makes me think that the 2.5-10x NF scopes are the best bang for the buck now.
Hopefully the S&B 1-8x is all it's hyped up to be (or maybe NF will come out with a 1-8/1-10).
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-28-11, 01:34
I'm disappointed. I was really, really wanting one of the 1.1-8x and thinking about replacing my NXS, but this makes me think that the 2.5-10x NF scopes are the best bang for the buck now.
Hopefully the S&B 1-8x is all it's hyped up to be (or maybe NF will come out with a 1-8/1-10).
That's a pretty good summary. Some pics for the reading impaired.
CQBSS on my LMT MWS.
http://i1034.photobucket.com/albums/a426/MileHighPhotos/Weld%20County%203-Gun%20Match%203-2011/Weld3-2011-18.jpg
http://i1034.photobucket.com/albums/a426/MileHighPhotos/Weld%20County%203-Gun%20Match%203-2011/Weld3-2011-17.jpg
http://i1034.photobucket.com/albums/a426/MileHighPhotos/Firearms/CQBSS1.jpg
http://i1034.photobucket.com/albums/a426/MileHighPhotos/Firearms/CQBSS2.jpg
http://i1034.photobucket.com/albums/a426/MileHighPhotos/Firearms/CQBSS3.jpg
http://i1034.photobucket.com/albums/a426/MileHighPhotos/Firearms/CQBSS4.jpg
This dog hunts! I'm glad most of the shots at the Pueblo Rifle match are longer - no glorified pistol match as Hoser puts it. Adjustable gas, JP LMOS with rifle length operating system, Geisselle 3gun trigger and the CQBSS.
So if you don't get the Horus you basically get a slightly gussied up MR/T 1.5-5 at 8x the price, but if you spring for the Horus the illumination works? Leave it to Leupold to screw up a good thing, because the CQBSS as delivered to the military does not have illumination issues.
I can't make sense of that decision...
Theres no actual 'tool' Ive found besides a stupid quarter or nickel that will work, and then if they've set for a while its really hard to turn with such little grip space and leverage on a coin. When Im at home Ive stuck a nickel in a set of channel locks. Stupid on a 2500 optic.
Nylon tipped screwdriver?
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-28-11, 12:32
So if you don't get the Horus you basically get a slightly gussied up MR/T 1.5-5 at 8x the price, but if you spring for the Horus the illumination works? Leave it to Leupold to screw up a good thing, because the CQBSS as delivered to the military does not have illumination issues.
I can't make sense of that decision...
Well, 1.1-8 and FFP is optically a lot different than 1.5-5, and for the life of me I don't understand why they left the holographic dot out. The HORUS adds some cost, but if the dot plus the HORUS is $600, how much could the dot cost? Once you are this price point they should have just brought out the more expensive version, at least as an option.
Leupold has tried to make a run at being taken as a serious contender with bringing out this scope, sending out versions to everyone for T&E, bringing in guys from The Hide- and then their marketing department releases this. Dumb. The scope is like Jennifer Aniston, its alright till Angelina Jolie starts whispering in your ear.
Yep, it's like buying a ferrari and then being told if you want the NON-oblong wheels that'll be an extra cost.
I'm still excited to see how the S&B shakes out, hopefully soon.
Well, 1.1-8 and FFP is optically a lot different than 1.5-5, and for the life of me I don't understand why they left the holographic dot out. The HORUS adds some cost, but if the dot plus the HORUS is $600, how much could the dot cost? Once you are this price point they should have just brought out the more expensive version, at least as an option.
Leupold has tried to make a run at being taken as a serious contender with bringing out this scope, sending out versions to everyone for T&E, bringing in guys from The Hide- and then their marketing department releases this. Dumb. The scope is like Jennifer Aniston, its alright till Angelina Jolie starts whispering in your ear.
I just meant capability-wise. I understand this scope costs more to produce and was more expensive to develop.
I have a hard time understanding why they would have left out the holographic dot on the TMR version, even though I have no use for the TMR version.
I was pretty surprised the holographic dot wasn't included with the TMR, and it still has a retail of 4k.
The Ferrari reference is spot on.
However, I would take Jennifer Aniston over Jolie anyday of the week. But alas, I doubt either wants to slum it with my blue collar self. ; )
On paper, the S&B has an amazing combination of features, but god knows when they'll be released. Hopefully Shot 2012 will bring quite a few new, actually in production, 1-6 and 1-8x scopes.
I have a hard time understanding why they would have left out the holographic dot on the TMR version, even though I have no use for the TMR version.
We're ALL scratching our heads at that one. I found the TMR reticle at 1.1 to be insufferably slow on target. It was massively disappointing buying the CQBSS only to find out shortly after that it didn't even have a red-dot function.
I wouldn't even say the CQBSS is out in any real quantity. I only got mine, and the one I sold to ColdDeadHands, due to my proximity with Leupold (they're 15 minutes from Portland). That said, the S&Bs are starting to filter out, and based on reports from Sniper's Hide about 2 dozen will be shipping out from the first batch in the next month.
When you start breaking down the design challenge having aimpoint-like functionality with 8x zoom, in a size package that's not absurd is still fairly daunting. Given that S&B did an awesome job with the 1-4 I'm still crossing my fingers for their 1-8.
However, I would take Jennifer Aniston over Jolie anyday of the week.
Yeah, Angie always left me with the impression that she smells...
We're using this thing on heavy machine guns, and are more concerned with use in conjunction with image intensification, and the thing works great for bumping up first-burst hit probability and all...
...but I agree with a lot of the commentary in regard to the illumination, or lack thereof. No fluctuation that I've seen, but it's dim to the point that I don't see how it's of any realistic use on a rifle, with the TMR reticle.
That, and while it's nothing I would call a 'bad' piece of glass, I just don't see any real justification for the pricing.
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-28-11, 20:56
Yeah, Angie always left me with the impression that she smells...
That's because she is dirty,so soooo dirty.
J- if you get a chance, if you come in contact with the Leupold guys, if you could ask them about the illumination issues, or why they pulled up lame on it.
I assume Titleist that you have reported back to them?
Can't wait till you can release more info on the mount you are using.
My girlfriends ex-boyfriend works for leupold for their military product group, so I've been passing passive aggressive comments through her for the last month or two.
My girlfriends ex-boyfriend works for leupold... WTF? Is this how you managed to get a CQBSS so early?
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-31-11, 07:31
Pimpn' out the girlfriend for high-end glass- nice! ;)
I think the big question is who did she date at Schmidt & Bender?
Singlestack Wonder
05-31-11, 12:30
FWIW S&B's 1-8's are available now in the Zenith offerings with the #7 and #9 flashdot (SFP and non-tactical turrents).
Pimpn' out the girlfriend for high-end glass- nice! ;)
You can thank her for your CQBSS ;)
Where did that information come from?
Singlestack Wonder
05-31-11, 12:47
FWIW S&B's 1-8's are available now in the Zenith offerings with the #7 and #9 flashdot (SFP and non-tactical turrents).
I had been seeing these on SWFA's site for while and when added to a shopping cart, there was no indication they were not in stock. After seeing BP7178's post, I called SWFA and they stated that these were several weeks out (probably months) and they apologized that the site didn't provide current info. :sad:
Yeah, I think even the PM IIs have been on SWFA since December.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-04-11, 01:14
I read on The Hide that the new S&B scopes are now pushed back to October due to parts supply. They guy mentioned both the 1-8 and the new 3-20- and I think the delay was for both....
One word
Swarvoski z6i 1-6
Perfect
Ok so its 2
MichaelVain
06-04-11, 16:25
I'm waiting for my CQBSS to come in and to see what the consternation is.
Hopefully it'll be here in a couple weeks.
Is it possible to get a picture of the reticle in daylight so we get an idea what the situation is?
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-04-11, 17:20
One word
Swarvoski z6i 1-6
Perfect
Ok so its 2
Steve,
Have you had a chance to compare and contrast the CQBSS and the Z? I've been meaning to mention that scope, but since I have never even seen one, let alone played with it, I was unsure. I would agree that it is a viable alternative. Hasn't AlaskaPoPo been running one for a few years?
I'll try to get some reticle pics this week.
Yes i have, while the Leupy is a good scope a bit overpriced(arent they all) i prefer the z6 for a run gun scope the drops are good and the swarvoski program is pretty much dead on the numbers
its an alternative
I prefer it now the leupy is more built like a tank but im not cashing bad guys through the mountains of something stan
Im killing cardboardystans monthly it suits my needs just fine
Until the alternative from Trijicon comes out which i hope it does the swarvoski is awesome
Steve, I'm looking forward to molest...I mean TRYING out that scope next month.
I'll probably offload the second cqbss as this thing just sits here wasting money. I'm still waiting for my s&b but I'll keep my options open.
Alaskapopo
06-04-11, 19:46
Steve,
Have you had a chance to compare and contrast the CQBSS and the Z? I've been meaning to mention that scope, but since I have never even seen one, let alone played with it, I was unsure. I would agree that it is a viable alternative. Hasn't AlaskaPoPo been running one for a few years?
I'll try to get some reticle pics this week.
I ran with the first Z6i Circle Dot reticle until they came out with the improved BRT reticle (has bullet drop marks and no more circle just lit 1.5 to 9 moa dot depending on magnificaiton) I love it and see no reason to change. At the last major three gun match 5 of the top 10 shooters were using a Swarovski Z6i to bring home trophies and prizes.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Optics/77grainN135load170yard0.jpg
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Optics/6x.jpg
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Optics/1xpic1.jpg
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Optics/1xoffcenter.jpg
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Optics/1xagain.jpg
Pat
Pat, is that dot visible in daylight?
Alaskapopo
06-04-11, 20:33
Pat, is that dot visible in daylight?
Yes even on the brightest days. It never washes out. You can adjust the intensity.
pat
Steve, is there any intel you can disclose on what Trijicon may be working on?
I was hoping to buy a S&B 1-8, but I'm not sure I want to wait until October. With how many delays they've had, I'm not wanting to put all my eggs in that basket.
Steve, is there any intel you can disclose on what Trijicon may be working on?
I was hoping to buy a S&B 1-8, but I'm not sure I want to wait until October. With how many delays they've had, I'm not wanting to put all my eggs in that basket.
Sorry no can do.........but its nice very nice
Well, at least Trijicon isn't pimping something that is over a year out. Hint hint S&B.
RAM Engineer
06-05-11, 08:36
Sorry no can do.........but its nice very nice
Can you NOT tell me if it has a BDC Horseshoe reticle? ;)
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-05-11, 21:13
Sorry no can do.........but its nice very nice
So Steve, hypothetically, what would your dream scope look like ;)
So Steve, hypothetically, what would your dream scope look like ;)
Nice play there....
I could tell you but you should see it before shot show
Well let me ask you this. Without listing features, how in your view, would it compare to the S&B 1-8? Not so much just from a glass quality standpoint. I was pretty impressed with my old TR24, more impressed that it managed to do what it did for less than $800.
FromMyColdDeadHand
07-16-11, 01:54
Posting it here rather than polluting other threads or starting a new one.
Looks like Leupold has a day light lit reticle.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2662626&page=2
It doesn't look like the earlier version that had a hologrpahic dot- this looks like it is just a lit reticle. Not perhaps perfect, but I think it address many of the issues that people have raised.
Also in the review, it seems that that the S&B reticle is daylight and great for close up, but maybe its reticle is really thin and maybe harder to use at long range.
I really like the CQBSS's Mil dot reticle for the 200-400 yard shooting I've done-makes it silly/stupid easy. If they have figured out a way to address the 1x up-close aiming I really think they have the winner then- especially if S&B is still a snowflake.
Here's hoping that Leupold can swap reticles or at least put the illumination module from the new version in the TMR'd scopes.
Just updated the Sniperhide thread from above they got the HORUS version in with the Red Dot, Now we will have to compare the SB, TMR, and Horus version of the 1-8x24's
.
VooDoo6Actual
07-19-11, 19:44
Curious as to the best price quote anyone has gotten on the Leupy ?
TIA
Yep, it's like buying a ferrari and then being told if you want the NON-oblong wheels that'll be an extra cost.
I'm still excited to see how the S&B shakes out, hopefully soon.
I was thinking near the same thing, I am new to scopes but it seems like if you pay for premium, you should get all the bells and whistles?
Especially considering the price point the Mark 8 is at. Twice over what the comparable S&B would cost...
The SB 1-8 is not out yet, we know what it is projected to cost, but that may change depending on the engineering that has gone into it and the attempt to break the hold that leupold has on that particular market right now.
You think it's going to double in price?
I doubt that it would, but that's what we're looking at. Roughly $2200-2500 compared to $4000.
I wouldn't pay that much, $4000, if it had any warts at all, regardless of the name that is on it.
Pro deals is well below the 4k mark and with a mil LE discount one can be had for around 2800-3000 and 3300 retail. And as for right now the leupold is the only option.
Only option for a 1-8x...
For low power variable optics, if you consider 1-6x and 1-4x, it's pretty far from the only option. Speaking for myself, I was intrested in S&Bs 1-8x not as much for the magnification, but the other features it brought to the table.
I don't see the 1-8x as the end all solution. There is a really small exit pupil and more added weight. But this all depends on what you're doing with it. From what I've seen, I think most could do more with a 2.5-10x Nightforce and an offset MRDS. Unless you're working in the left right limits of 3-gun rules which can limit you to one optic.
Also keep in mind LE/Mil pricing also exists for most of the other highend scopes. Nightforce being the strange exception...so I would compare Leupolds professional price to a others retail.
Oops, that should read "I would not compare Leupolds professional price to others retail pricing".
Can't edit worth a crap from an iPhone...
Only option for a 1-8x...
For low power variable optics, if you consider 1-6x and 1-4x, it's pretty far from the only option. Speaking for myself, I was intrested in S&Bs 1-8x not as much for the magnification, but the other features it brought to the table.
I don't see the 1-8x as the end all solution. There is a really small exit pupil and more added weight. But this all depends on what you're doing with it. From what I've seen, I think most could do more with a 2.5-10x Nightforce and an offset MRDS. Unless you're working in the left right limits of 3-gun rules which can limit you to one optic.
Also keep in mind LE/Mil pricing also exists for most of the other highend scopes. Nightforce being the strange exception...so I would compare Leupolds professional price to a others retail.
It is definitely not an end all be all, but for the power range 1-8 it is what was requested by some military units. March has a 1-10x24, the NF is not a FFP scope, It's all give and take.
I like the range 1-8 for my SPR and EMC the current 1-4, 1.5-5, and 1-6 just don't have the power range that I am looking for in the low and the high end.
I have not looked through the 1-8 yet so I am hoping that it will work or I will find an alternative that works for me.
VooDoo6Actual
07-22-11, 12:33
Pro deals is well below the 4k mark and with a mil LE discount one can be had for around 2800-3000 and 3300 retail. And as for right now the leupold is the only option.
That confirms my data as well.
THX
I just saw that the H-27D reticle is now being sold. There are a few pics on Sniper's Hide.
Available with either the M-TMR™ or the H-27D reticle. M-TMR models will include the AA53 MK262 Mod 1 5.56mm BDC dial while the H-27D models will feature the M118LR 7.62mm BDC dial.
The H-27D reticle features a 5 MOA holographic dot for the ultimate blend of precision and rapid acquisition.
I don't get the logic of not selling the H-27D w/o the cam for Mk262....it seems to me the reticle and BDC dials should be reversed.
That whole optic boggles my mind in how it's being sold. I'm actually glad I sold mine off now.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-02-11, 12:56
So I called Leupold today and got passed onto their custom shop. The guy confirmed, after consulting with some people, that the CQBSS reticle is not daylight rated.
I said that I saw that there was a version with the Horus that was daylight visible and was there anyway to swap the illumination module or would it have to be a whole reticle change and is that even possible. He checked around and said that there could be a swap kit available next year for the whole reticle, but he didn't know the particulars of when or how much.
I told him I thought it was pretty crappy to have a $3000-4000 scope that was not daylight visible and if he could pass that along in his feedback channels. He said he would tell management.
I know this scope and the TMR version is the first out/ bleeding edge of the scope, but with blood you can usually see red at least- no such luck here. I know I'm just a peon that called in cold, but I think the downside to dealing with such a large company is that this is just another scope model to that technician. Never had to do it, but I'd guess if I called USO or Premier I'd talk to someone a lot more intimately involved with the models.
I called because I think this is a pretty common complaint about the scope and I wanted to see what Leupold said about it, but they are too big for that kind of communication.
The day light reticle that Frank showed over on the hide doesn't seem to be the red blob dot from earlier daylight reticles that I saw- it seems to be just the reticle lit more intensely. It also doesn't seem to be for sale anywhere yet.
I could see two paths forward, selling the scope and taking the hit on resale and buying a new scope set-up or tweaking the scope. I was interested to see what the cost difference is. I really like the scope, Overall, I really like the scope. I've used it in three tactical rifle matches and it does OK on a fairly bland range, but you start throwing scrub brish and grass into the sight picture and it gets a bit hard to use the reticle at 1-3x especially.
Leupold has actually hit their schedules with the scope, unlike others, so here's hoping that they can come in on time with the mod kit. Even better would be if they did a mea culpa and said that TMR in a $3500 scope should be daylight visible and mod'd the scope.
I'm thinking the proper swap kit would be you send in your CQBSS, and they send you back a S&B 1-8.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-02-11, 13:28
The devil you have or the one that is promised in December...
The last I've seen, unconfirmed and sourced, was that the S&B 1-8s should be out in December. It will be interesting to see when S&B, Premier and Leupold get it all sorted out. But heck, even GSRC has a 1-6 FFP daylight scope out for $1k.
Belmont31R
09-02-11, 13:32
The devil you have or the one that is promised in December...
The last I've seen, unconfirmed and sourced, was that the S&B 1-8s should be out in December. It will be interesting to see when S&B, Premier and Leupold get it all sorted out. But heck, even GSRC has a 1-6 FFP daylight scope out for $1k.
Im willing to wait to get what I want in a scope. With a 1X bottom end it must have something like the Flash Dot or equivelent. Otherwise Id go for a 2.5-10 or along those lines with a large size front bell for exit pupil and light.
1X without daylight illumination is just about worthless. Understand SB has been very delayed, and Im frustrated with it...but what else are you going to do? Leupold obviously should have waited, too, and gotten their scope right. Aside from the people who got them for free I don't get the impression people are all that impressed with it.
But yes having something in hand is better than nothing. I already sold my 1-4X Short-Dot so my gun doesn't have anything but irons right now...:p
Im willing to wait to get what I want in a scope.
^Yep, basically that's it in a nut shell.
Magic_Salad0892
09-02-11, 13:46
But yes having something in hand is better than nothing. I already sold my 1-4X Short-Dot so my gun doesn't have anything but irons right now...:p
Same here. However. I'm still wondering if the 1-8 is even worth waiting for/what I want right now.
NF 1-4 NXS is looking nicer by the way, and I already have the money saved.
Belmont31R
09-02-11, 13:55
Same here. However. I'm still wondering if the 1-8 is even worth waiting for/what I want right now.
NF 1-4 NXS is looking nicer by the way, and I already have the money saved.
NF suffers from the same problem of no day light illumination like a dot.
If it doesn't have a dot what good is the 1X function?
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-02-11, 15:02
If it doesn't have a dot what good is the 1X function?
Exactly. With out the dot, I would have taken the 8x range and made a 2-16. Now that is some reach and just add an offset T-1.
I wonder if 1-8 is just asking too much, especailly with an FFP reticle and having to deal with some kind of aimpoint at 1x and at 8x. If we were coming from ACOGs and iron sights, it all would be good, bit t-1s and Eotechs have spoiled us up close.
1-6 I think would be good enough I think for almost all the uses out there of ar15s. I know the scope was for A-stan and 308 so it is a bit over engineered for what I'm using it for. I think someone like NF could come out with a 1-6 and just clean up the civilian market and perhaps a lot of SPR business too.
Don't get me wrong, the CQBSS is a good scope. If it had a daylight reticle it would be an awesome scope.
Don't get me wrong, the CQBSS is a good scope. If it had a daylight reticle it would be an awesome scope.
Ehhhhhhhhhh... I wouldn't go that far. :p
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-02-11, 16:59
Ehhhhhhhhhh... I wouldn't go that far. :p
I haven't heard of one breaking, the scope turrets are pretty sweet, nice sharp optics. Yes it's heavy and big and expensive and about as useful as a sighting device as a toilet paper tube at 1x, but with a better aim point at 1x the main issue with the scope, for me at least goes away.
I'd love to hear from an optical engineer about the issues with illumination on a ffp scope and why being daylight is an technical problem.
I was watching the '3-Gun Nation' premier and one of the hosts had a SCAR with what looked like a CQBSS with 45 offset iron sights.
FAIL.
I'd love to hear from an optical engineer about the issues with illumination on a ffp scope and why being daylight is an technical problem.
You mean like how S&B pulls this off and has for years? ;)
It has more to do with the process of how a reticle is illuminated than being FFP or SFP.
The way I see it, scope manufacters don't see the value in day light visible aiming points in scopes. The technology is there, they just don't put the two together.
Leupold has that firedot scope line, which is intresting. But like all Leupold products, its an "almost".
My problem, and this is just handling it, not shooting it, was that it just left me wanting more. For a thousand or fifteen hundred dollar scope it would be excellent, the turrents are awesome, built like a brick shithouse, magnification adjustment is great. For a 3 thousand dollar scope, it just really left me disappointed and wanting more. Right now I'm really looking hard at the Premier.
I haven't heard of one breaking, the scope turrets are pretty sweet, nice sharp optics. Yes it's heavy and big and expensive and about as useful as a sighting device as a toilet paper tube at 1x, but with a better aim point at 1x the main issue with the scope, for me at least goes away.
If it was half as expensive I could say that 'neat turrets' would be a selling point. But as a pure optic, it's a HUGE let down.
I'm so glad I offloaded mine when I did. And I know the 1-8 S&B will be worth the wait. Simple. As. That.
Littlelebowski
09-02-11, 20:28
Can't wait to see what US Optics has coming.
Can't wait to see what US Optics has coming.
What is the rumor?
I really like my 1.8x10
Dual focal plane variable.
There was some information posted on Sniper's Hide in the optics forum, complete with pics.
Dual focal plane variable.
There was some information posted on Sniper's Hide in the optics forum, complete with pics.
This one? (http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=86329) link is here on m4c
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-03-11, 01:22
I'm so glad I offloaded mine when I did.
What idiot bought it off of you...
...anyway.
Not my CQBSS, but Hoser has one too with a nifty cat tail. The Cat tail must be the key because Hoser won in this months Pueblo Tactical Rifle Match and I came in much, much lower. Sweet 556 OBR too..
http://i1034.photobucket.com/albums/a426/MileHighPhotos/Pueblo%20Tactical%20Rifle%20August%202011/MMR_2011_08_28_2329posted.jpg
http://i1034.photobucket.com/albums/a426/MileHighPhotos/Pueblo%20Tactical%20Rifle%20August%202011/MMR_2011_08_28_2321posted.jpg
Magic_Salad0892
09-03-11, 03:56
NF suffers from the same problem of no day light illumination like a dot.
If it doesn't have a dot what good is the 1X function?
IMHO, the scope is still pretty usable in the daylight, with or without illumination.
Littlelebowski
09-04-11, 10:48
This one? (http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=86329) link is here on m4c
That's it among other things. Chad is with USO and monitors threads like this.
What do people think about IOR. I spoke with them last week and they told me that they have a 1-10x26 dual reticle scope that will be available in the next few weeks. The scope apparently has an MLR type reticle in FFP and an aimpoint like dot, that's daylight visible, in the SFP.
I think their 1.5-8x26 without the illumination is an often untalked of contender for run and gunning. At less 9.5 inches it's certainly compact.
Belmont31R
09-10-11, 18:16
Not bashing a product not out yet but from the ones Ive handled they are on par but not at the top of the class. When we are talking about scopes that retail for 2k+ the chaff is quickly separated from the wheat. Im all for more options in this type of market, and I think the development of extreme range magnification scopes is the next evolution in design....Id rather pay 2600 MSRP for a SB from a proven company vs. 1.5-2k for something unproven.
I haven't heard anything bad about them. Keep in mind next few weeks can quickly turn into next few months.
It seems these low power scopes that get into the extended magnification ranges sacrifice quite a bit of exit pupil to pull it off.
I'd be intrested to see what IOR comes up with, but I'm not holding my breath.
Belmont31R
09-10-11, 18:23
I haven't heard anything bad about them. Keep in mind next few weeks can quickly turn into next few months.
It seems these low power scopes that get into the extended magnification ranges sacrifice quite a bit of exit pupil to pull it off.
I'd be intrested to see what IOR comes up with, but I'm not holding my breath.
Ive said it in other threads but I would rather have the Zenith 1.5-6x42 made into a "tactical" scope than a 1-8x24, and work on getting that 1.5X down to the 1.1X with CC mode. The 42MM front bell would solve the lack of exit pupil issue, and provide for a far brighter scope esp in low light conditions.
I find myself wondering why they haven't done just that.
I also find it odd that everyone seems to be married to 28mm objectives in these types of scopes. To some degree weight is an issue, but even if they don't go as large as the 1.5-6 Zenith, something like the Nightforce has on their 2.5-10 would be a strong option.
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