View Full Version : LMT or BCM barrel?
I just ordered an LMT lower and BCG and am having trouble deciding between a 16" LMT upper and a BCM 14.5" upper with a permanently attached flash hider. Both are carbine length. I'm not so concerned about parkerizing under the FSB and straight vs taper pins as I am about the actual quality of the barrel itself. Thanks in advance for any suggestions you all may have.
I just ordered an LMT lower and BCG and am having trouble deciding between a 16" LMT upper and a BCM 14.5" upper with a permanently attached flash hider. Both are carbine length. I'm not so concerned about parkerizing under the FSB and straight vs taper pins as I am about the actual quality of the barrel itself. Thanks in advance for any suggestions you all may have.
Why a 16" vs a 14.5"? Personally i would choose bcm over lmt, just because they're usually cheaper. However i do not like the permanently attached flash hider concept at all and would never get one just because of that reason. If you wanted to change out your flash hider to a compensator or if you wanted to change out your gas block, it would just be too much of a pain in the ass with a perm attached FH.
Why a 16" vs a 14.5"? Personally i would choose bcm over lmt, just because they're usually cheaper. However i do not like the permanently attached flash hider concept at all and would never get one just because of that reason. If you wanted to change out your flash hider to a compensator or if you wanted to change out your gas block, it would just be too much of a pain in the ass with a perm attached FH.
It's going to be a patrol rifle and I figured I could save a little length to be a bit more compact in the urban environment I work in. But, you make a good point. The 14.5" configuration would limit future options or at least make them more difficult. With that in mind, I suppose the 16" may be the most sensible and it's really not much more length. In this case, the LMT is actually the cheaper of the two for me. That said, I'll probably lean toward the LMT unless there is reason I should reconsider.
For less than $10 more, I would choose the BCM BFH (Hammer forged) complete upper any day of the week over the LMT. The LMT does not have a hammer forged barrel.
Personally I would get the 16" Light weight Middy: http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-BFH-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-light-weight-p/bcm-urg-mid-16lw%20bfh.htm over a carbine gas system barrel unless there is something limiting/requiring you to get an "M4" carbine configuration.
I have one of the BCM CHF 16" Middies as one of my duty rifles and it is a great upper. I love the lighter weight barrel profile. And the hammer forged barrel will likely outlast me before I shoot it out.
"it would just be too much of a pain in the ass with a perm attached FH". That's why I went w/ the 16" BCM, I just wanted the option to change it out if I wanted. Naturally, other members will rightfully argue for the lighter weight of the 14.5, but my next one will be a 14.5 pencil bbl anyway to really lighten it up. LMT/BCM - how can you go wrong with either? I'd get the less expensive and put the diff. elsewhere.
I tend to shy away from permed barrels. Unless you are 100% sure that you will never want to change configs go with a 16".
For less than $10 more, I would choose the BCM BFH (Hammer forged) complete upper any day of the week over the LMT. The LMT does not have a hammer forged barrel.
Personally I would get the 16" Light weight Middy: http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-BFH-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-light-weight-p/bcm-urg-mid-16lw%20bfh.htm over a carbine gas system barrel unless there is something limiting/requiring you to get an "M4" carbine configuration.
I have one of the BCM CHF 16" Middies as one of my duty rifles and it is a great upper. I love the lighter weight barrel profile. And the hammer forged barrel will likely outlast me before I shoot it out.
I'm with you on this. One of those uppers just arrived last night via UPS. Can't wait to get it out to the range.
I'm a total newbie to ARs, but I just picked up a 16" LMT carbine length upper from VTSupply for $400. I suppose its bottom of the line for LMT, but it seemed like a good deal to me. I'm still waiting on a backordered BCG before I can check it out on the range though.
I'm a total newbie to ARs, but I just picked up a 16" LMT carbine length upper from VTSupply for $400. I suppose its bottom of the line for LMT, but it seemed like a good deal to me. I'm still waiting on a backordered BCG before I can check it out on the range though.
Unless it is a MRP LMT only makes one upper. M-4. Just like Ford said.
you can have it in any color as long as it's black. :p
Unless it is a MRP LMT only makes one upper. M-4. Just like Ford said.
you can have it in any color as long as it's black. :p
In that case, I guess I done good.
polymorpheous
05-25-11, 12:35
OP,
You could get a BCM 16" M4 profile upper.
BCM and G&R have them in stock right now.
It's $85 cheaper than the LMT.
polymorpheous
05-25-11, 12:42
In that case, I guess I done good.
There should be "LMT" laser engraved on the upper receiver.
There should be "LMT" laser engraved on the upper receiver.
Yup. That's what's engraved on the receiver.
I have a 14.5 LMT and a 14.5 BCM and they are so similar that I really don't care. BCM is quite a bit cheaper and has perm'd 14.5 M4s in stock right now. I don't have the experience that many members here do who seem to hate perm'd 14.5s but it is really my favorite configuration. It's only $40 to have the FH removed, but the extra hassle keeps me from wanting to constantly swap $300+ rails and $100+ brakes that will do a lot less for ME than 2K extra rounds of ammo per year would.
My LMT M4 and BCM LW middy are both quality boomsticks, neither have had any failure that wasn't magazine or ammo related, yet. With a quality lower you shouldn't have any issues with either as a duty rifle. Neither shoots any better than the other. I would opt for a basic LW middy in 16". That gives you a good platform to start with.
You could also go with a 16" LW carbine and try out different muzzle devices and then get it cut and perm'd once you try some out and decide if you're dead set on a 14.5.
On a side note I prefer my LMT charging handle of the BCM. It's THE perfect size, right between the Mod 4 and Mod 5.
For a patrol rifle and in general, I dont feel the M4 profile barrel offers any advantages or serves any real practical purpose other than to "look" like what the troops carry.
A midlength upper gives you more options with mounting lights and vertical foregrips/handstops, etc. without getting cluttered. The midlength also gives you a longer iron sight radius and they generally shoot slightly smoother than your typical carbine gas system uppers.
I really appreciate all the solid feedback. It's refreshing to have a question answered by folks who know what's going on. Thanks again. When I set out on this quest, I had the intentions of a simple upgrade from my M&P15A. I've had zero issues with it and it's been quite the shooter but it turns out I run it harder than I ever thought I would. With that in mind, I wanted to mainly upgrade to a better barrel. My initial thought was to swap out my Omega Rail etc. to the new gun and use the existing foam cut in my Storm case to basically keep the same configuration as I have now. Of course, now I'm just about all the way back to the drawing board. :cool:
For a patrol rifle and in general, I dont feel the M4 profile barrel offers any advantages or serves any real practical purpose other than to "look" like what the troops carry.
A midlength upper gives you more options with mounting lights and vertical foregrips/handstops, etc. without getting cluttered. The midlength also gives you a longer iron sight radius and they generally shoot slightly smoother than your typical carbine gas system uppers.
I honestly ended up liking my carbine over my mid length, but I agree on the M4 barrel. I would have liked to have gotten a LW carbine, but already had an M4 and wanted to have two identical carbines. I like the 2X gun idea for defensive weapons, but unless you can buy them both at once (including optics, lights, etc.) you can start chasing your tail with the newest and best thing that's out.
polymorpheous
05-25-11, 22:11
I really appreciate all the solid feedback. It's refreshing to have a question answered by folks who know what's going on. Thanks again. When I set out on this quest, I had the intentions of a simple upgrade from my M&P15A. I've had zero issues with it and it's been quite the shooter but it turns out I run it harder than I ever thought I would. With that in mind, I wanted to mainly upgrade to a better barrel. My initial thought was to swap out my Omega Rail etc. to the new gun and use the existing foam cut in my Storm case to basically keep the same configuration as I have now. Of course, now I'm just about all the way back to the drawing board. :cool:
If you run your gun hard, may I suggest an upper with a cold hammer forged barrel?
I believe they are supposed to have a longer barrel life.
If you run your gun hard, may I suggest an upper with a cold hammer forged barrel?
I believe they are supposed to have a longer barrel life.
Yep, I shot out the chrome lined barrel on my LMT MRP right at around 13,000rds. It really started showing a degradation in accuracy right at 12,000rds and just got worse from there. Others I shoot with who shoot far more rounds down range that I ever will also say that 12,000rds is about what most should expect from a standard chrome lined barrel before things start to loosen up accuracy wise.
I believe the hammer forged barrels from BCM and DD claim a 30-40k round service life.
ETA: I would also add Centurion Arms & Noveske to the list of CHF barreled uppers. In fact, Centurion Arms would be my first choice for a new barrel at this point.
If you run your gun hard, may I suggest an upper with a cold hammer forged barrel?
I believe they are supposed to have a longer barrel life.
I really don't think it's that big of a deal.
ETA: I could be wrong after seeing the previous post. The Pat Rogers BCM (non CHF) went to 30 or 40K, and there have been quite a few others mentioned that have done the same. I guess it depends on what your idea of "shot out" is. Is that based on "combat accuracy" or target/game accuracy? How much better does HF really stand up?
polymorpheous
05-25-11, 22:30
I really don't think it's that big of a deal.
I think it depends on just how hard he is running the gun.
polymorpheous
05-25-11, 22:31
Yep, I shot out the chrome lined barrel on my LMT MRP right at around 13,000rds. It really started showing a degradation in accuracy right at 12,000rds and just got worse from there. Others I shoot with who shoot far more rounds down range that I ever will also say that 12,000rds is about what most should expect from a standard chrome lined barrel before things start to loosen up accuracy wise.
I believe the hammer forged barrels from BCM and DD claim a 30-40k round service life.
This is why my main rig has a CHF barrel.
My backup has a standard barrel.
I really don't think it's that big of a deal.
Maybe not for most shooters, but if you shoot alot of rounds every year, twice the average service life is a pretty big deal.
I was editting before I saw you guys post again. I followed this pretty closely when the HF'd AR barrel mania started, but never saw any real world evidence posted of substantially longer life (certainly not 3-4X the life). I would like to see any evidence (even 1st hand sample of one) that someone has on this? Have you ran any HF barrels to 20 or 30K rounds that still maintained good accuracy Nick? How bad was the accuracy of your LMT after 12K?
I was editting before I saw you guys post again. I followed this pretty closely when the HF'd AR barrel mania started, but never saw any real world evidence posted of substantially longer life (certainly not 3-4X the life). I would like to see any evidence (even 1st hand sample of one) that someone has on this? Have you ran any HF barrels to 20 or 30K rounds that still maintained good accuracy Nick? How bad was the accuracy of your LMT after 12K?
I could hardly hold together a 2" group @ 25yds. That was with xm193 55gr., but still.
The hammer forged tech has been around for decades prior to it catching on with the AR market. Most of the SAW's and other heavy machine guns use hammer forged barrels for its extended service life and durability under heat.
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