Opinions wanted about my rifle & installing a rail

[outrider627]

First of all, I haven't been able to get out to the rifle range that much because of various reasons, so I only have 400 rounds through my rifle. There have been no malfunctions such as FTF or FTE. The only problem was the buffer tube became loose after the last range trip. I sent the lower back to the manufacturer and it was replaced.

Would something like that make you think twice about the overall quality of the rifle? Ever since the buffer tube got loose, I've been thinking about what other problems could appear. I'm a big believer of "If you want something done right, do it yourself" so I've been thinking about selling this rifle and building a new rifle. Am I over thinking this and worrying about nothing? Is a loose buffer tube a common occurrence that can happen to any manufacturer?

Also, at what round count would you consider a major modification like a rail system? I know some people like 500 or 1000 problem free rounds as the benchmark for HD duty. Should that also apply to semi-permanent mods like rails?

[caelumatra]

Staking a castle nut would keep this from happening for sure. Not all mfg's do it though. But I think torquing the castle nut down the right amount would also do it. Not as well of course.
I've got a few thousand through my rifle and the castle nut isnt staked and it hasnt backed out a smidge

It would put a bug in my brain "if the castle nut isn't torqued enough...is the barrel nut?"
But its hard to say since you haven't had any malfunctions. If the barrel isn't torqued correctly though, I'm fairly certain it can effect accuracy in some adverse way. So, if you're hitting consistent groups, the barrel nut is probably fine.

What brand is it?

[Pax]

Make & model of the weapon? Was the castle nut staked properly? Was it LocTite'd? If so, with what type of LocTite?

There is great debate as to which aftermarket "upgrades" users ought to purchase and make use of first. It may be important to consider before assuming that you need rails first. This debate is presented in the thread linked below. Personally, I say master your irons, buy a cheap Aimpoint and find a way to get a light on your weapon. If that means rails, then get rails. If you find that you cannot stand the fixed Front Sight Block and you would like to switch to a low-profile gas block under a rail system, go for it. But only after you have become proficient with irons, optics and you have a rail-compatible light.

http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=80154

[outrider627]

Staking a castle nut would keep this from happening for sure. Not all mfg's do it though. But I think torquing the castle nut down the right amount would also do it. Not as well of course.
I've got a few thousand through my rifle and the castle nut isnt staked and it hasnt backed out a smidge

It would put a bug in my brain "if the castle nut isn't torqued enough...is the barrel nut?"
But its hard to say since you haven't had any malfunctions. If the barrel isn't torqued correctly though, I'm fairly certain it can effect accuracy in some adverse way. So, if you're hitting consistent groups, the barrel nut is probably fine.

What brand is it?

I saved the targets from each range trip to track my progress, but I can't find them right now. I know the rifle is more accurate than I can shoot it. The castle nut was staked, twice actually. I posted a thread on it when it happened and the consensus was the castle nut was not torqued properly.


Make & model of the weapon? Was the castle nut staked properly? Was it LocTite'd? If so, with what type of LocTite?

There is great debate as to which aftermarket "upgrades" users ought to purchase and make use of first. It may be important to consider before assuming that you need rails first. This debate is presented in the thread linked below. Personally, I say master your irons, buy a cheap Aimpoint and find a way to get a light on your weapon. If that means rails, then get rails. If you find that you cannot stand the fixed Front Sight Block and you would like to switch to a low-profile gas block under a rail system, go for it. But only after you have become proficient with irons, optics and you have a rail-compatible light.

http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=80154

Yes, staked properly. No on the Loctite. I already have a sling, light, and Aimpoint. Only have the optic because of the awesome R-1 sale last December.

The FSB vs rail mounted front sight is a thread for another day, once I do some more reading.

I know its probably gonna cause a shitstorm, but I'll publicly name the manufacturer. It's M4C's favorite brand, Spikes Tactical. :eek: So let's try to keep this civil? If not, I'll call the mods myself and have this thread locked.

[rob_s]

What shortcoming have you discovered with the rifle in 400 rounds of use, and what kind of use was it, that leads you to want to install a rail system?

[Iraqgunz]

This is why I always advocate doing a complete inspection of the weapon before you fire it. Also, you should be looking for an "issues" while shooting it.

Any company can make mistakes, no doubt. It's how they handle and how often it occurs that is the defining moment.

I agree that if the castle nut wasn't torqued and staked properly I would probably be looking deeper at the weapon.

As for the rail situation. All you need to do is ask yourself do you need or why do you want it? If you want to get more accuracy from it by adding a free-float, then that's your choice. If you want to hang a ton of shit off it, that's your choice as well.

In all honesty I am not seeing how the rail really ties into the whole equation. I wouldn't be obsessed with the accuracy as long as it is performing within normal standards. Obviously if you plan on going going out and doing head shots on Bin Laden then accuracy would be important.


I saved the targets from each range trip to track my progress, but I can't find them right now. I know the rifle is more accurate than I can shoot it. The castle nut was staked, twice actually. I posted a thread on it when it happened and the consensus was the castle nut was not torqued properly.



Yes, staked properly. No on the Loctite. I already have a sling, light, and Aimpoint. Only have the optic because of the awesome R-1 sale last December.

The FSB vs rail mounted front sight is a thread for another day, once I do some more reading.

I know its probably gonna cause a shitstorm, but I'll publicly name the manufacturer. It's M4C's favorite brand, Spikes Tactical. :eek: So let's try to keep this civil? If not, I'll call the mods myself and have this thread locked.

[outrider627]

What shortcoming have you discovered with the rifle in 400 rounds of use, and what kind of use was it, that leads you to want to install a rail system?

Honestly, none. I just spend too much time looking at the latest new accessories on gun forums. :D

At one point, I thought about getting a free floated rail to remove any possible human induced forces on the barrel (sling, hand position, etc), but now I'm thinking FF isn't necessary for my use. So far the 400 rounds were at a range just punching paper. I want to attend a class, but I can't afford one right now.

What's your opinion on the buffer tube issue? Should I shoot it more before I decide to keep or sell it? I did intend for this rifle to be a general purpose/HD rifle when I bought it.

[outrider627]

This is why I always advocate doing a complete inspection of the weapon before you fire it. Also, you should be looking for an "issues" while shooting it.

Any company can make mistakes, no doubt. It's how they handle and how often it occurs that is the defining moment.

I agree that if the castle nut wasn't torqued and staked properly I would probably be looking deeper at the weapon.

As for the rail situation. All you need to do is ask yourself do you need or why do you want it? If you want to get more accuracy from it by adding a free-float, then that's your choice. If you want to hang a ton of shit off it, that's your choice as well.

In all honesty I am not seeing how the rail really ties into the whole equation. I wouldn't be obsessed with the accuracy as long as it is performing within normal standards. Obviously if you plan on going going out and doing head shots on Bin Laden then accuracy would be important.

I was hoping you would chime in IG, I know you pull no punches and would lock this if it got out of hand.

About the buffer tube, I don't get how it happened. It felt correctly installed before the last range trip. I had gotten an EMod stock shortly before the RE got loose, and I remember grabbing the stock and rotating it on the RE to check for stock wobble and the RE did not move. It was only a few days after the range trip when I was going over the rifle that I noticed the RE was loose.

As for the rail, I addressed that in my reply to Rob. Thing is, I also don't want to mod the rifle too much if it's not worth it. The mods I have done are non-permanent/removable. I already have the three basic mods with my current handguards anyway: light, sling, and optic.

What areas should I inspect? I checked the BCG staking when I first got the rifle, and it looks good.

[markm]

About the buffer tube, I don't get how it happened. It felt correctly installed before the last range trip.

Firing the gun will work it loose even if correctly torqued. The torque spec is pretty low... thus the need for staking it in place.

[Iraqgunz]

Read that sticky that I did about Inspection Procedures for operators. I don't want to get into the whole Spike's thing. It's been discussed a hundred times at least. But, let me just say this.

1. Is this lower good? I.E. it's in spec and everything works. Then keep it. You already learned the castle nut folly and you got it corrected.

2. Is the barrel good? Is it shooting properly and is it tight? You can check this yourself reading my inspection thread. If so, then move on.

3. Is the BCG good? Staked and all that other jazz. This is where I would err on the side of caution and replace the bolt only with a known no BS bolt from LMT, Colt, BCM, or DD.

Basically you need to be looking for anything loose or out of whack. If you don't find anything else then put the rail on or whatever and shoot the piss out of it.

Remember rails can be removed. So if this thing takes a crap down the road you can tear it apart and salvage parts to rebuild it into something else.


I was hoping you would chime in IG, I know you pull no punches and would lock this if it got out of hand.

About the buffer tube, I don't get how it happened. It felt correctly installed before the last range trip. I had gotten an EMod stock shortly before the RE got loose, and I remember grabbing the stock and rotating it on the RE to check for stock wobble and the RE did not move. It was only a few days after the range trip when I was going over the rifle that I noticed the RE was loose.

As for the rail, I addressed that in my reply to Rob. Thing is, I also don't want to mod the rifle too much if it's not worth it. The mods I have done are non-permanent/removable. I already have the three basic mods with my current handguards anyway: light, sling, and optic.

What areas should I inspect? I checked the BCG staking when I first got the rifle, and it looks good.

[rob_s]

If you can't afford a class I'd put the money you were goig to spend on a rail in a jar to save for a class.

I may be back out running the carbine drills for the club at www.tssaidpa.us soon and you're welcome to join us,even if I'm not the one running things.

I'm sure the RE is fine, just keep an eye on it.

[outrider627]

I read the Inspection thread. Great info, thanks.


Read that sticky that I did about Inspection Procedures for operators. I don't want to get into the whole Spike's thing. It's been discussed a hundred times at least. But, let me just say this.

1. Is this lower good? I.E. it's in spec and everything works. Then keep it. You already learned the castle nut folly and you got it corrected.

2. Is the barrel good? Is it shooting properly and is it tight? You can check this yourself reading my inspection thread. If so, then move on.

3. Is the BCG good? Staked and all that other jazz. This is where I would err on the side of caution and replace the bolt only with a known no BS bolt from LMT, Colt, BCM, or DD.

Basically you need to be looking for anything loose or out of whack. If you don't find anything else then put the rail on or whatever and shoot the piss out of it.

Remember rails can be removed. So if this thing takes a crap down the road you can tear it apart and salvage parts to rebuild it into something else.

[outrider627]

I've been wanting to go to one of the TSSA shoots for a while now, but school was keeping me busy. Now that I'm done with school, I can probably make it to at least one during the summer.


If you can't afford a class I'd put the money you were goig to spend on a rail in a jar to save for a class.

I may be back out running the carbine drills for the club at www.tssaidpa.us soon and you're welcome to join us,even if I'm not the one running things.

I'm sure the RE is fine, just keep an eye on it.

[ffhounddog]

I would say stop thinking too much and shoot it. If it was replaced then it was replaced correctly.



First of all, I haven't been able to get out to the rifle range that much because of various reasons, so I only have 400 rounds through my rifle. There have been no malfunctions such as FTF or FTE. The only problem was the buffer tube became loose after the last range trip. I sent the lower back to the manufacturer and it was replaced.

Would something like that make you think twice about the overall quality of the rifle? Ever since the buffer tube got loose, I've been thinking about what other problems could appear. I'm a big believer of "If you want something done right, do it yourself" so I've been thinking about selling this rifle and building a new rifle. Am I over thinking this and worrying about nothing? Is a loose buffer tube a common occurrence that can happen to any manufacturer?

Also, at what round count would you consider a major modification like a rail system? I know some people like 500 or 1000 problem free rounds as the benchmark for HD duty. Should that also apply to semi-permanent mods like rails?