View Full Version : Sig SP2022 - decent truck gun or junk?
lloydkristmas
05-30-11, 15:54
A guy I know manages a sporting goods store, I could pick up a new Sig SP2022 for about $365.
I know Sig's QC has been spotty lately, but how does this pistol stack up? I'm looking for something cheap that I could keep in the glove box, not an everyday carry gun or anything, thats what my HK's are for.
So for that price, is it decent, or would I be better off with a used Glock or something?
The local city PD went from SIG P226's in 9mm to P2340's (early SIG Pro's) in .357 SIG about 13 years ago, and have switched to SIG P229 DAK's in .357 about a year ago.
By and large they're ok pistols, in fact, the frames are Swiss.
They do not enjoy the level of aftermarket support for holsters and sights and magazines that Glocks do.
I haven't heard of any serious QC issues with them, mainly because Cohen has no input on production of them.
Price would be a big deciding factor but I'd still lean heavily towards a G19 or G17.
For a new pistol in that price range, IMO it's one of the better (maybe the best?) options. Anecdotally, a friend has had one for a couple years and has yet to have a failure of any type despite being slightly abused.
lloydkristmas
05-30-11, 16:26
The price was the biggest draw for me. After a little bit of a discount, Id be taking home the pistol for about 366 bucks.
I have a .45 and a .380, but no 9mm. Neither pistol I have right now is cheap to shoot.
Im thinking this gun might be an inexpensive way to pick up a range plinker and truck gun at the same time.
Pistol Shooter
05-30-11, 16:32
I've not read or heard anything negative about the Sig SP2022.
For $365.00 it could make a good truck gun, IMO.
We have sold quite a few at the gun store where I work, and so far we have not had any complaints about them or had any come back for repair. Folks that bought them have been very happy with them.
Now the P250 is a different story. I'd stay away from those, even if they are cheap.
Nephrology
05-30-11, 18:00
The SigPros are fine. They are certainly not my first choice for CCW or anything else really but for a cheap truck gun/plinker at 365 USD you have a winner.
By and large they're ok pistols, in fact, the frames are Swiss.
They do not enjoy the level of aftermarket support for holsters and sights and magazines that Glocks do.
I haven't heard of any serious QC issues with them, mainly because Cohen has no input on production of them.
Actually, the SP2022's are made in Exeter, and there are a few that come in from Germany.
With "Cohen's input" or not, people seem to be very happy with them, and many consider them to be the best "bang for the buck" in the pistol world.
For a new pistol in that price range, IMO it's one of the better (maybe the best?) options. Anecdotally, a friend has had one for a couple years and has yet to have a failure of any type despite being slightly abused.
Seconded.
Mine has been trouble free for the 3 years and 500+ rnds.
Good fit in the palm as well.
I got one that was a LE trade in, as in most LE trade in's it was hardly shot, bright night sights and little to no holster wear. FIST makes holsters for them and most of the XD paddle holsters will fit them, and glock mag carriers will fit the mags. As far as accuracy and reliability I would put them up against any Glock or M&P out there. I carry mine alot, run it in competition and training, I'm not easy on anything I own and it has taken the abuse in stride. It has shot everything from Tula steel case to extremly hot HP reloads.
lloydkristmas
05-30-11, 22:28
I decided to pass. These used to sell with night sights and three magazines, this particular pistol came with regular sights and only one factory magazine (it came that way, the store didnt alter the setup).
Not worth it without the extras, IMO
Beat Trash
05-31-11, 03:07
The last time I looked at one of these to use as a spare gun, they came with the night sights and extra mags. Combined with the retail price, this is what made them so attractive.
If they switched away from night sights and one magazine, then I think I'd pass...
variablebinary
05-31-11, 03:17
They are bulky and the grip sucks, but overall they are a solid pistol and very cheap. SIG was blowing these out for almost nothing with night sights and two mags for awhile.
For a truck gun or even a house gun, it would get the job done. Though, the grip and bulk are a downer.
Also, there are a ton of them floating around that are made in Germany, so you don't get any SIG USA chicanery.
I did a little research on these and decided to go ahead and check one out at the LGS today. The grip is on the larger side, but roughly comparable to the Sig 220 series. I have large hands, so I didn't think it felt blocky at all. Then again, I do not find the FNP-45 too large either. In fact, the pistol is only slightly larger than the P229 and a few ounces lighter at 28.5 vs 31.5 for the P229 (due to the poly frame). Since I was familiar with the P229 and was impressed with the comparable feel of the 2022 trigger, I decided to purchase it just for the hell of it. I thought the the price was a bargain at $488 something out the door (9.5% sales tax in Seattle)with the night sights. It only came with one 15 round mag, however. I'll get more from Midway, I guess.
I immediately went to the range without cleaning it and boy was I surprised. I put 250 trouble free rounds of PMC and Blazer through it without a hiccup. Recoil was slight and the gun seemed to point very naturally for me. The only negative I found was that the slide stop lever is large and I suspect it could be a problem for some. I'm used to the HKs, so it wasn't for me.
Now I am not giving up on my Glocks yet, but for the money I thought this pistol handled similarly to, say an HK USP or P2000. If it had the P30 grip, it would be perfect for those with medium or small hands.
Crap, that's three new handguns in three weeks, but I'm definitely keeping this one for the collection.
I had one for awhile, no problems for me. It has a pretty good trigger, fairly close the p-series.
For those who don't like the grip, the grip panel is replaceable and available in small, medium, and large.
Cecil Burch
06-02-11, 13:26
I love mine.
Installed the small grip, and it fits my average size hand better than my G19. And it conceals almost as well. Great trigger out of the box. Fed everything without a hiccup, but until I hit the 2k range, I will refrain from saying it is completely reliable.
NinjaMedic
06-02-11, 14:26
I love my SP2022 in .40, I have around 4000 rounds through it with few if any problems. It was my first handgun that I carried concealed, some people have to change their grip slightly as their thumbs rest on the slide lock and prevent the slide locking back on empty.
I would not hesitate to pick up another one for that price.
Glock folks will generally hate anything Sig. Same probably true in reverse.
I like mine. Trouble free to date 625 rounds down the pipes (have 9mm & .40). They are triple numbered German w/nite sights. The grips are modular. Large/medium/small, should be able to find a size to suit.
For the cost, the 2022 is an ubeatable value IMHO
Vincent317
06-02-11, 23:49
I've got an all German 2022 in .40 that has been flawless for over 1500 rounds. The double action is a little on the heavy side but single action is light & crisp.
I've got a 2022 in 9mm, put the small grip on it, and installed trijicon night sights myself. Have about 500 rds through it and it is my new favorite pistol.
The only thing I want to change now is to install a regular trigger (it came with the short trigger).
I went through Kramer for a holster.
variablebinary
06-04-11, 03:38
I've never seen the "small" size.
There was only hulking and brutal at one point. I'll have to try it with the small size to see what I think.
http://www.topgunsupply.com/sig-sauer-sigpro-grips-small.html
I've never seen the "small" size.
There was only hulking and brutal at one point. I'll have to try it with the small size to see what I think.
http://www.topgunsupply.com/sig-sauer-sigpro-grips-small.html
Most pistols come with the "medium" size that has the lanyard loop and stippling. The large size is not stippled. The small size is frankly indistinguishable from the "medium" except that it does NOT have the lanyard loop. I really can not tell any difference in size between small and medium.
The small grip only became available when the latest crop of Sig Pros arrived, before that they came with the small and large grips and that was it. Also some come with night sights, some have standard sights, some with 2 mags, some with one mag and a cleaning kit... It has always been that way so be careful and watch what you are getting. The German made ones always seem to go for more money: with the previous gen the German ones with standard sights and 2 mags were more expensive than the US made ones with night sights.
I have an older US model with night sights and 2 mags I got for $430 (back then you could also get them for $399 at times). That was a good deal at either price IMO and the gun has been 100% reliable with all kinds of ammo. The latest crop went from the internal to an external extractor and I have seen a couple of threads from people with extraction problems. I'm not sure if it is a fluke or not.
Most pistols come with the "medium" size that has the lanyard loop and stippling. The large size is not stippled. The small size is frankly indistinguishable from the "medium" except that it does NOT have the lanyard loop. I really can not tell any difference in size between small and medium.
There is a medium grip without the loop that has been available for a while but it is not the small one. The small grip became available after the non loop one and is visibly smaller.
There is a medium grip without the loop that has been available for a while but it is not the small one. The small grip became available after the non loop one and is visibly smaller.
Hmm, if so then Top Gun sold me a medium sans lanyard loop instead of a small grip. :confused:
TapRackBang20
06-04-11, 11:14
I have one (frame made in Germany) and it's been a very dependable gun. Use it for about the same purpose you will, practice at the range and something to have in the truck (Which if that is your intended use for it, I wouldn't let the lack of holster's deter you. You can find enough to suite your purpose). It's got about 2000 rounds through it and no malfunctions, save for the occasional FTF due to the ammo. It will feed just about anything you put in their; Federal, Monarch, American Eagle, Winchester, Remington UMC, Fiocchi, Speer, and Hornady have all fed through mine.
So to summarize, yes, you should get it.
Heartbreaker
06-04-11, 17:37
My friend bought an Exeter made one a while ago, it hasn't been great. Would not cycle WWB whatsoever when it was new, not a single round. Switched to some standard power handloads and it ran about 95%, tried some other factory ammo after a few hundred rounds of that and seemed to be consistent, so the problems could be attributed to break in. His is the small size and it's way too small for my hands, make sure to try whatever size you want before you buy. The trigger leaves a lot to be desired, and the finish isn't great either. Lastly, it shoots about 8" low at 25 yards with the stock front sight on it. Personally I'd spend the extra $100 on a police trade in Glock if you have to go on a budget.
http://i1010.photobucket.com/albums/af230/weaponsrelated/DSC_0264.jpg
My friend bought an Exeter made one a while ago, it hasn't been great. Would not cycle WWB whatsoever when it was new, not a single round. Switched to some standard power handloads and it ran about 95%, tried some other factory ammo after a few hundred rounds of that and seemed to be consistent, so the problems could be attributed to break in. His is the small size and it's way too small for my hands, make sure to try whatever size you want before you buy. The trigger leaves a lot to be desired, and the finish isn't great either. Lastly, it shoots about 8" low at 25 yards with the stock front sight on it. Personally I'd spend the extra $100 on a police trade in Glock if you have to go on a budget.
http://i1010.photobucket.com/albums/af230/weaponsrelated/DSC_0264.jpg
Too bad for your friend. Mine shoots spot on at 25yds and the trigger and finish are fantastic. Is it my favorite pistol? No, but it's damned good for the money and I daresay not far from the P226.
I don't understand what you mean regarding the size- there is only one size SP2022 imported to the US which has two interchangeable grip sizes: small and medium. There is a minor difference between the size of he two, but even the small grip is about the same circumference as a P229.
LanceOregon
06-04-11, 20:25
Here is a LNIB SP2022 in 40 S&W on sale at gunbroker.com for only $350. Plus it has a German made frame:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=233584522
http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/233584000/233584522/pix032322786.jpg
http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/233584000/233584522/pix715085889.jpg
With all this 2022 talk, I had to take my 9mm to the range today. Gosh, i had forgotten how much fun it was to shoot. I love a large capacity mag.....shot my .380s before it. :jester:
At 25 yards, the dang gun was dead on. I even ran the target out further and bullseyed it at least once. Still working on the double action shooting with it though. A few times I had the old 'delay trigger break', but the good news is that on may occasions I did not. So, I am getting better with it. Just never had such a long double action trigger......
Anyway, after packing up at the range, I found myself really relishing the value i have found with my 2022. 100 rounds down the pipe this morning and not even close to a hiccup. Pleasingly accurate...it was just great fun. :cool:
My friend bought an Exeter made one a while ago, it hasn't been great. Would not cycle WWB whatsoever when it was new, not a single round. Switched to some standard power handloads and it ran about 95%, tried some other factory ammo after a few hundred rounds of that and seemed to be consistent, so the problems could be attributed to break in. His is the small size and it's way too small for my hands, make sure to try whatever size you want before you buy. The trigger leaves a lot to be desired, and the finish isn't great either. Lastly, it shoots about 8" low at 25 yards with the stock front sight on it. Personally I'd spend the extra $100 on a police trade in Glock if you have to go on a budget.
http://i1010.photobucket.com/albums/af230/weaponsrelated/DSC_0264.jpg
It doesn't really matter since the OP has already decided to not buy, but who knows someone might actually use the search function to research the SP.
I recall that there was apparently a bad batch of SPs released mostly in California. If you go to calguns.net, there are some details about it there. This could have been one of them :confused: The fact that the frame does not say "Made in Germany" and that the gun has an external extractor means that Cohen probably has a hand in it. Some of these guns also have a different finish.
Look for the guns that have German frames and night sights. Supposedly they are European made with the Exeter roll marks for importation purposes.
My gun's diet has been 90% WWB.
LanceOregon
06-05-11, 06:40
My gun's diet has been 90% WWB.
Everyone needs to also keep in mind that there are two different 9mm WWB loads. People commonly mention it as if there is only one such load. However, the fact is that Winchester sells two different versions.
One of them is loaded with a 124 gr bullet, and has a part number of USA9MM. The other one is a cheaper "Value Pack" load, which has a 115 gr bullet, with a part number of USA9MMVP.
I would personally never judge any handgun using the cheaper Value Pack White Box ammo. Walmart has pressured Winchester so much to cut costs on this ammo, that I just don't consider it to be quality stuff. Certainly not suitable for self-defense at all.
.
Fair enough Lance.
My guns diet has been over 90% WWB 115gr FMJ Value pack loads. This is also the same stuff I run through my Berettas. More than 2000 rounds in the last couple years and I can only recall one misshapen round that was caught before I attempted to load it. It is range fodder and while it may be produced as cheaply as possible, it is still better than steel cased. Not trying to defend the stuff, just saying I've had good luck with it.
I think it is fair to say though given your experience with the SP2022 as well as everyone else here except Heartbreak, that the gun will eat everything you feed it and Heartbreak's friends gun is an anomaly.
Hmm, if so then Top Gun sold me a medium sans lanyard loop instead of a small grip. :confused:
They sell both. I actually bought the no loop medium first thinking it was the small size grip... but it wasn't. The real small grip became available several months later. If you go on their website and look at the pictures of both products you should be able to identify the one you have as they don't look the same stippling wise. Edit: I am not 100% sure but I think that if you look at Heartbreaker's picture above, the gun has the small grip while the pictures in LanceOregon's post has the no loop medium.
They sell both. I actually bought the no loop medium first thinking it was the small size grip... but it wasn't. The real small grip became available several months later. If you go on their website and look at the pictures of both products you should be able to identify the one you have as they don't look the same stippling wise. Edit: I am not 100% sure but I think that if you look at Heartbreaker's picture above, the gun has the small grip while the pictures in LanceOregon's post has the no loop medium.
Interesting, I'll have to look into this. It looks like they reduced the flair on the backstrap. Does it seem to you to be any narrower?
Thanks...
Fair enough Lance.
My guns diet has been over 90% WWB 115gr FMJ Value pack loads. This is also the same stuff I run through my Berettas. More than 2000 rounds in the last couple years and I can only recall one misshapen round that was caught before I attempted to load it. It is range fodder and while it may be produced as cheaply as possible, it is still better than steel cased. Not trying to defend the stuff, just saying I've had good luck with it.
I think it is fair to say though given your experience with the SP2022 as well as everyone else here except Heartbreak, that the gun will eat everything you feed it and Heartbreak's friends gun is an anomaly.
X2 Not as many rounds, but the same here.
variablebinary
06-17-11, 19:37
I had a chance to try out the new Exeter made 2022 with the new grip.
Felt nice, much nicer than the older model in fact.
SIG is practically giving these things away as well. Without night sights they can be had for under $400. With night sights figure $460, which is less than Glock and the M&P.
Though, the question is always "can you trust SIG", and these new guns feel nice in the hand, but they Aren't German
In case anyone is wonder, the new edition American made 2022 is visibly different than the German model.
http://personalsecurityzone.com/images/SGE2022-9-BSSlg.jpg
http://www.petiteguns.com/DisplayPic.aspx?PIC=485621
I had it in it's earlier incarnation, the Sigpro 2340; mine had both the .40 and the .357 SIG barrels, and both grips. It was a good gun, and performed quite nicely, but overall I found that I preferred Glocks. The Sigpro had a fairly high bore axis as I recall, and required some dedicated hammer time to truly wring out it's potential, which, at the end of the day I simply wasn't willing to personally dedicate at the expense of my other platforms. But that certainly is not to say that it isn't the right choice for others.
In my personal experience, and observation/reading, the Sigpros are a bit of a sleeper, and represent an excellent value, requiring no modification out of the box (other than sights, if desired) to be a viable combat handgun-particularly if it's to be your sole or primary personal defensive weapon.
Best, Jon
Oh, and to answer the original question:
Much much Better than decent and definitely not junk.
variablebinary
06-17-11, 23:32
In my personal experience, and observation/reading, the Sigpros are a bit of a sleeper, and represent an excellent value, requiring no modification out of the box (other than sights, if desired) to be a viable combat handgun-particularily if it's to be you sole or primary personal defensive weapon.
I've always wondered why SIG never pushed the "SIGPRO" line more.
There is no reason why the this line should not be going head to head with Glock and the M&P
I've always wondered why SIG never pushed the "SIGPRO" line more.
There is no reason why the this line should not be going head to head with Glock and the M&P
I'm guessing they got all caught up with the P250 and the gimmick that it was.
The SigPro line, especially the 2022, has enjoyed considerable success in Europe but it really hasn't been pushed hard in the US. I can only assume Cohen has some part in it. As I understand it, the European 2022s of a few years back were released more in parallel with SigArms USA than they were by SigArms USA.
I totally agree with you though. If they were to clean up the gun a little (which they may have done with this newer grip) and develop a DAK type trigger module for it, this gun would be an easy contender with the Glocks, HKs, and M&Ps.
variablebinary
06-18-11, 13:39
I totally agree with you though. If they were to clean up the gun a little (which they may have done with this newer grip) and develop a DAK type trigger module for it, this gun would be an easy contender with the Glocks, HKs, and M&Ps.
DAK and SRT.
If anything, SIG should have started reducing or phasing out P-Series models and start expanding the SIG Pro line with full size, compacts, threaded barrels, and competition models.
Mind you, even the most tricked out SIG Pro wouldn't cost much more than a tricked out M&P.
And how often do you hear people say the SIG Pro sucks or is problematic? Rarely ever.
Really good gun, that was never take to it's fully potential. The recent prices and new grip might inspire me to add one to the collection as a backpack, trunk beater.
DAK and SRT.
If anything, SIG should have started reducing or phasing out P-Series models and start expanding the SIG Pro line with full size, compacts, threaded barrels, and competition models.
I've been saying the same thing for a while.
Discontinue the stupid bling Classic models, stick with the standard black and 2-tone on them, and expand the "Pro" line. The Pro's should have DAK and SRT models, and start working on a striker varient. Oh, get rid of the POS P250 too.
variablebinary
06-18-11, 21:22
I've been saying the same thing for a while.
Discontinue the stupid bling Classic models, stick with the standard black and 2-tone on them, and expand the "Pro" line. The Pro's should have DAK and SRT models, and start working on a striker varient. Oh, get rid of the POS P250 too.
That's what SIG should have done. They should have seen times were changing.
The SIG Pro was/is well positioned to compete in this new market with very small tweaks.
As for the P250, it is a turd, and would have made more sense if it was a striker pistol, because that DAO trigger system is a total piece of crap
I wonder if the lack of profit margin has anything to do with Sig USA keeping the SP2022 as kind of a black sheep? From my understanding the 2022 was developed in Europe for the LEO market around the same time as Sig USA was blundering down the P250 road. Seems an inexpensive, robust, no frills service pistol does not fall into Cohen's master plan. I recall at one point, the SigPro line was no longer on Sig USA website. However the fact that more and more US built 2022s are showing up on the market may indicate that someone has noticed. It would be really interesting to see this line developed further.
variablebinary
06-19-11, 03:56
From my understanding the 2022 was developed in Europe for the LEO market around the same time as Sig USA was blundering down the P250 road.
The SIG Pro line predates the P250 by nearly 10 years.
The P250 DCc was also available for a few years before going on sale in the USA.
Both were designed in Europe, though SIG USA has made tweaks to both.
And the biggest problem with the P250 is the trigger in my opinion. If the trigger was more like an LEM with a pre-cocked hammer, I think our opinion would be quite different.
Here is one thing that really irks me about the 2022. There is a compact model available, and its been out for years, but SIG USA has completely neglected it. While they were designing bling 229's, this was completely left on ice
http://www.rehak-lov.com/gallery/images/images_full/406_0.jpg
ChicagoTex
06-19-11, 04:11
Dear god, I want that SPC...
El Pistolero
06-19-11, 07:35
Has anyone had issues with the slide release and the decocker being so close together? I've been looking at getting one of these in 9mm over a USP Compact.
http://www.rehak-lov.com/gallery/images/images_full/406_0.jpg
Is this compact available in Europe or was it a design that just hasn't been fully produced?
Just more evidence to be belief that Cohen is only interested in selling $1000 "collector" pistols than $500 working guns.
The SIG Pro line predates the P250 by nearly 10 years.
The P250 DCc was also available for a few years before going on sale in the USA.
Both were designed in Europe, though SIG USA has made tweaks to both.
And the biggest problem with the P250 is the trigger in my opinion. If the trigger was more like an LEM with a pre-cocked hammer, I think our opinion would be quite different.
Here is one thing that really irks me about the 2022. There is a compact model available, and its been out for years, but SIG USA has completely neglected it. While they were designing bling 229's, this was completely left on ice
http://www.rehak-lov.com/gallery/images/images_full/406_0.jpg
I hadn't thought about a compact 2022. Now that is a cool idea I would jump on. Perfect truck gun.
variablebinary
06-19-11, 18:39
Is this compact available in Europe or was it a design that just hasn't been fully produced?
Just more evidence to be belief that Cohen is only interested in selling $1000 "collector" pistols than $500 working guns.
It's been out in Europe for at least 5 years now. Why it never made the jump to the USA, I have no idea.
Here is the German site: http://www.sigsauer.de/index.php?id=758&lang=en
And a pic with the flat mag base. The overall dimensions are smaller than the 229 (7.0x5.31x1.38 vs 7.1x5.4x5.7), and it's obviously lighter (28oz vs 32oz).
http://www.sigsauer.de/uploads/pics/spc2022_LE_01.jpg
The SPC 2022 would be a nice addition to have. SIG USA seems to just introduce more weird models rather than promote the well established designs they have in Europe.
variablebinary
06-19-11, 21:48
The SPC 2022 would be a nice addition to have. SIG USA seems to just introduce more weird models rather than promote the well established designs they have in Europe.
Take a look at the Euro site. Their product line is very concise. The USA product line is all over the map.
Dear god, I want that SPC...
Same here... Especially if they were to sell it at the same price point the regular 2022 is being sold at...
Cecil Burch
06-20-11, 12:12
Has anyone had issues with the slide release and the decocker being so close together? I've been looking at getting one of these in 9mm over a USP Compact.
I haven't had any issues over the past 3 months that I have had mine. I have put less than 1,000 rounds through them due to time constraints, but I have done a boat load of dry fire work, and all the control manipulations have been done without a hitch.
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