View Full Version : Paul Howe - Tac Rifle Operator
jmlshooter
06-02-11, 13:30
Man, great instructional DVD.
I really learned a lot of things I didn't know about the fundamentals of rifle operation. I'm newer to the AR platform than a lot of the folks on here, and Paul Howe pointed out some things that I just had not considered or seen taught:
1. Moving your adjustable rifle stock changes your zero.
2. Head placement with different types of ear pro.
3. Dislodging a real failure to extract.
4. Kit setup
5. Which aperture to use at which distances
6. A good zero for 100-300m.
The level of detail he provided here was incredible. This wasn't a "this is how you do it" video ... it was a "this is how I do it, and this is the real-life reason I do it this way." I liked that he used iron sights regardless of distance and didn't shoot an optic the entire time. You get the impression, "Hey, this guy can shoot, and I think he can teach me to shoot, too."
He just thinks differently. A lot of the trainers that you see out there are running red dots and appear to be teaching people to shoot 15 rounds at different colored shapes as fast as they can from 25 yards and in. This was real marksmanship instruction.
I highly, highly recommend it.
Glad to hear you liked it. I am right now on the fence about purchasing his two videos. There is another thread elsewhere on the Howe DVDs. Paul is one of the greats, but not as well known as others. He definitely subscribes to a much more conservative and fundamentals based philosophy than say the Magpul guys.
Would you say that this video is geared more towards a beginner level, or is there intermediate material in it? :confused:
jmlshooter
06-02-11, 15:51
An expert's beginner is a beginner's expert ... tough to say.
I enjoyed it and got something out of it. I found it to be much better than the Tac Pistol Operator video. If you have to choose one, I'd choose the rifle.
The pistol video mostly consists of him shooting the standards. The rifle video has a lot more "nuggets" of information.
An expert's beginner is a beginner's expert ... tough to say.
I enjoyed it and got something out of it. I found it to be much better than the Tac Pistol Operator video. If you have to choose one, I'd choose the rifle.
The pistol video mostly consists of him shooting the standards. The rifle video has a lot more "nuggets" of information.
Thanks!
Serpico1985
06-03-11, 10:30
How does changing your adjustable stock LOP affect zero?
How does changing your adjustable stock LOP affect zero?
It changes the position of your eyes in-relation to your sights or optic. You wont notice a difference from about 50yds and closer, but out past 100yds everything needs to be consistent to maintain your "Zero".
The instructional video is very good. Like stated earlier, he uses iron sights in the video (he is definitely not against optics). Outside of a sling and a small light, he doesn't use any fancy gadgets on his gun. When he teaches a method he also explains why he teaches that method. His methods are proven in the real world. I took his HR course last year and it was excellent. I have been to quite a few training courses in my career, and I consider Paul Howe's above the rest. If you ever get a chance to take one of his courses you won't regret it.
I really wish they'd show this at basic training, rather than having an ill informed mortuary affairs Drill Sergeant do it like mine did. My learning curve would of been far shorter! I'm no slouch now but even just the smallest points with body position are going to be useful next time I qual and deploy. It's also a great practical set of standards for me to work to at the range in my spare time.
I really enjoyed the video, especially Paul saying "I probably shouldn't be oiling this part" during the cleaning tutorial repeatedly.
Can't wait for the advanced class. Is there a difference between the DVD and on line viewable editions.
It has his "maintenance" on the video? I'll buy it just to see that again. Good stuff.
thopkins22
06-14-11, 11:08
It has his "maintenance" on the video? I'll buy it just to see that again. Good stuff.
Grease, grease, and a little more grease.:)
As others have said, the Tac Rifle DVD has more jewels of information, since operation of the rifle has more variations than the pistol. Paul demonstrates his methods and then explains why it works. If anyone is contemplating CSAT instructor courses, these DVDs will ease the learning curve.
theblackknight
07-26-11, 22:47
I liked both vids. For how exacting a basic they were. I'm NOT a fan of his "tactical reload" tho. Its basically: take a knee, do a uspsa style top off reload, scan, then pick up and dumper your partial mag. This troubles my dreams
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Both of Paul's videos are great. Though I do agree that the rifle video does have more information in it. Paul's methods ares solid "no non-sense" stuff, that will build a superb base for a tactical shooter. If you are already an experienced tactical shooter there is still good info here as well. If you are new to tactical shooting, get out a note pad, and start taking notes. Almost everything you need to know is laid out in simple straight forward fashion.
I was lucky enough to begin my tactical shooting education with Paul and CSAT, and he set a very high bar for everyone else to follow.
theblackknight: What about Paul's tac reload do you not like?
-Jenrick
theblackknight
07-27-11, 09:28
Simply dropping the mag on the deck, then picking up after you've s & aed a 2nd time ? That's not a tactical reload. There are soo many reasons why this is bad, mainly you barely gain any time in which the fresh ammo isnt seated with his vs. a real tac reload. Doing his "top off" reload dose minimize the window of time in which there is isn't a ammo source in the gun, but that's the only advantage I can see. I don't know many who would approve of losing retention of a partial magazine if you can help it.
I respect paul a lot, have one of his books, and just ordered the other yesterday.
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Failure2Stop
07-27-11, 14:51
I have absolutely no heartache at the thought of getting a fresh mag into the gun as soon as possible if you have just been in a gunfight. In the really real world the instructor doesn't wait for everyone to finish stuffing their pouches before a dude will pop out and try to kill you.
We have become so enamoured by the pouches we stick to our gear that we feel compelled to constantly reinforce not efficiency, but purchase justification.
The problem with the "tactical reload" is that it really is an administrative function that should only be carried out with someone providing direct cover. This is one of the problems with having people without a real tactical background teaching tactical marksmanship and manipulations.
I don't know many who would approve of losing retention of a partial magazine if you can help it. I would. I personally hate the "reload with retention" or "tactical reload" as it's often bandied around.
The goal of a reload (any type) is to get a reliable source of ammunition in the gun as fast as possible. I don't care if you are loading partial mags in when it really hits the fan, or are simply topping off after 1 round fired, you want to get the gun up as fast as possible. In a real world shooting, the very fact you need to reload means someone has needed killing. There may be more someones that need killing, and the weapon needs to loaded as soon as possible. The absolute last thing I'm going to worry about is the mag I elected to get out of my weapon.
If I have the time and space to retrieve that magazine, I shall. On the other hand if I don't have the time and space, I don't want to be screwing around trying to juggle two AR magazines while I reload.
... you barely gain any time in which the fresh ammo isnt seated ...
That time difference, however small, may be the difference between life and death.
-Jenrick
Paul and I talked about this and I, like him, never thought it was a good idea to try an manipulate two rifle magazines with one hand especially wearing gloves and being just involved in a shooting.
I think hand size is a factor as well. I can do a tac reload but if something goes sideways I could see where a klutz like me could end up with two mags on the deck.
Thanks for the notes on this site. As for the reload, I will try and explain it a bit more.
I do/teach my tac reloads behind cover. If you are running and trying to do one, you are not situationally aware of your weapon and its condition. When I move, I want a topped off gun ready for any situation I encounter. If you are trying to tac reload while you are running and getting shot at, you have issues. First, you are either running to cover or reloading, but trying to do both will slow you down and make you a better target. I will tac reload if I have to move and I am under 3/4 a mag. If I am static, I may just shoot the gun dry depending the tactical situation (if they are 100 yards and out).
Further, I will not loose a shot on a bad guy because I am fumbling with a partial mag and have failed to get my rifle back up. The partial mag is secondary to making a rapid engagement should a bad guy present himself and you need a loaded gun to engage.
Next, I don't use a dump pouch as they are more of an admin tool on a flat range. I used to stick my empty mags into a cargo or empty pocket when I was through with them. Why? I hate the noise and rattle of empty mags if I am still in a prolonged fight. If we move from a shooting area to a non-shooting area that has not heated up yet and we are trying to be quiet (which is a good thing) and you have two or more mags rattling loose in a pouch, you might as well scream clankly-clank, I'm a tank for all the noise you make. I don't want you in my stick if your gear noise gets to the bad guys before we do.
Finally, if you shooting that many rounds that you need to dump mag after mag, I hope you are hitting something and not just pissing away your ammo. I believe in a 1/3 rule. Get a lethal hit for every three rounds fired. That will get you 9 bad guys for every mag you fire if you are able to remember the basics.....
Paul
theblackknight
07-28-11, 12:54
Mmkay guys, you've got me on track hesitantly, but how is the best way to break the ice on issues like this to the "masses" in POG units and such, when the law of primacy and "that's not what you were taught in basic)/OSUT/MCT etc happens
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I've had my best luck by proving it. Lay out all the pros and cons...the fact is, you may not win (the first time)...but at least you made the attempt.
Failure2Stop
07-29-11, 05:02
Mmkay guys, you've got me on track hesitantly, but how is the best way to break the ice on issues like this to the "masses" in POG units and such, when the law of primacy and "that's not what you were taught in basic)/OSUT/MCT etc happens
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People tend to deal with logic and proof pretty well.
Failure2Stop
07-29-11, 05:08
And always remember; concept over technique.
It ain't dancin' we're teachin', it's fightin', no judges to tell me if my heel didn't come off the floor enough during my pirouette. It's about fighting and winning, not adherence to tradition.
Thanks for the notes on this site. As for the reload, I will try and explain it a bit more.
I do/teach my tac reloads behind cover. If you are running and trying to do one, you are not situationally aware of your weapon and its condition. When I move, I want a topped off gun ready for any situation I encounter. If you are trying to tac reload while you are running and getting shot at, you have issues. First, you are either running to cover or reloading, but trying to do both will slow you down and make you a better target. I will tac reload if I have to move and I am under 3/4 a mag. If I am static, I may just shoot the gun dry depending the tactical situation (if they are 100 yards and out).
Further, I will not loose a shot on a bad guy because I am fumbling with a partial mag and have failed to get my rifle back up. The partial mag is secondary to making a rapid engagement should a bad guy present himself and you need a loaded gun to engage.
Next, I don't use a dump pouch as they are more of an admin tool on a flat range. I used to stick my empty mags into a cargo or empty pocket when I was through with them. Why? I hate the noise and rattle of empty mags if I am still in a prolonged fight. If we move from a shooting area to a non-shooting area that has not heated up yet and we are trying to be quiet (which is a good thing) and you have two or more mags rattling loose in a pouch, you might as well scream clankly-clank, I'm a tank for all the noise you make. I don't want you in my stick if your gear noise gets to the bad guys before we do.
Finally, if you shooting that many rounds that you need to dump mag after mag, I hope you are hitting something and not just pissing away your ammo. I believe in a 1/3 rule. Get a lethal hit for every three rounds fired. That will get you 9 bad guys for every mag you fire if you are able to remember the basics.....
Paul
Out of curisosity...
From the way it was described above (I haven't seen the video), the method is:
Seek cover
take a knee
eject partial magazine to deck
insert fresh magazine
retrieve partial magazine from deck provided there is an opportunity to do so
If that is correct, my question is, what do you do with the partial magazine once it's retrieved. you mentioned you don't use a dump pouch, and you "used to stick my empty mags into a cargo or empty pocket", but you don't make mention of what you do with partials?
if I'm misunderstanding then my appologies, and if this is made clear in the video then double apologies. Just trying to understand a technique that is heretofore counter to my prior instruction.
thanks in advance.
People tend to deal with logic and proof pretty well.
In which case the question would become "how do you prove it to them?" Do you make use of a timer and have them perform various methods of changing out a partial magazine and record the split times as proof?
We did this several years ago with the RWR vs. TL and found the RWR provided the fastest split times provided the magazine was stowed prior to firing in the TL. We never tried it Howe's way although the question would be do you fire before or after the partial is retrieved and stowed? It seems obvious to me that if the round is fired before retrieval it would be the fastest method, if after stowage it would be the slowest.
It seems obvious to me that if the round is fired before retrieval it would be the fastest method,
I'snt that the point? To me being fast at stowing a mag would be like being fast at re-holstering.
I'snt that the point? To me being fast at stowing a mag would be like being fast at re-holstering.
Is it?
You've decided that it's important to retain the magazine, for whatever reason. Would it not be best to be able to do so in the least amount of time possible?
It appears to me that Howe's technique minimizes the importance of the partial magazine in favor of getting the gun topped up most quickly, and only allows for retrieval of the magazine if there is time.
I'm not critiquing here, just mulling things over and hoping to fuel the discussion.
Rob,
You can fire anytime in the sequence as your hands are back on the weapon the fastest.
Bring a full mag out next to the mag well.
Eject the partial mag and push pull the new/full mag.
Check your battlefield (this means look for bad guys to shoot).
Press check and close your dust cover.
Check your battlefield.
Recover and stow your partial mag.
Check your battlefield.
What to do with a partial mag? Use them last if in dire need.
If you need full mags, get them from the vehicle you came in on as you should have pre-staged ammo.
If it gets really bad, strip the dead and wounded of their ammo. They don't need it. If your officers are on a radio calling for FS, use theirs. If someone is mentally out of the game and fetal, take theirs. If men are not willing to fight, they become my ammo bearers....
Finally, dead bad guys brings guns and ammo to the fight, use theirs if you have to....
Paul
Thanks Paul, appreciate the response.
Are you still travelling at all and/or working with Grey Group? I'm working with them to bring some of "their" instructors down to Florida and I'd love to get you down here next year if we can work it out.
I agree it does minimize magazine retention, but from a slow learner's perspective (my perspective) taking one problem at a time, my main problem is my rifle is low on ammo and getting it reloaded is paramount.
Adding any other steps to getting that rifle fully loaded may worsen my situation. If I tac reload as described I am sure my mag is seated (push/pull), but I personally can't do this very well with two magazines in my hand.
Rob,
Thanks and I am trying to cut back my trips and do more classes at my place. I have all my live fire lanes set up and I don't have to reinvent the wheel with each new range I come to.
As for travel, I have seen enough hotel rooms in my life. Grey Group looks like they are keeping busy which is a good thing in these economic times.
Paul
I personally can't do this very well with two magazines in my hand.
For me it is hit or miss, which is why I timed a group of shooters on the RWR vs. TL, and based on those results as well as my own physical limitations, I now perform a RWR instead.
From a time standpoint it makes sense as with the TL your support hand is going gun-belt-gun-belt but with the RWR it's only going gun-belt-gun.
I also went back to GI magazines recently instead of the Pmags and find that this change greatly improves my ability to manipulate the magazines. I may even try the TL again just to see if it's improved that much.
Submariner
07-29-11, 08:22
Press check and close your dust cover.
Mr. Howe, would you please describe how you conduct the press check of your carbine/rifle?
Submariner,
I use my right hand to pull back on the charging handle to see/feel brass. If I want to feel, slide my left/non-firing hand around under the weapon and touch the case. I release and then palm strike my forward assist. Finally I close my dust cover with my non-firing hand. The reason I use my right hand on the charging handle is because it must come off the grip to use the forward assist after I do my brass check.
I know the other technique used is to pull your magazine and then check to see that a round has stripped off. This came from using the MP-5 as best as I can tell. The problem I have with this technique is that you are unseating the life blood of your weapon. I see more problems with students not seating magazines correctly than forward assists breaking. I personally don't want them to pull the mag out once they put it in correctly.
I also use this technique on an M-1 Carbine, Grand, M1A, AK, etc.
Both systems work, I just prefer the way I teach.
Paul
Submariner
07-29-11, 08:49
Thank you kindly for taking the time to answer my question.
The problem I have with this technique is that you are unseating the life blood of your weapon. I see more problems with students not seating magazines correctly than forward assists breaking. I personally don't want them to pull the mag out once they put it in correctly.
...
Both systems work, I just prefer the way I teach.
I have never seen this explanation for the technique. I have personally failed to re-seat magazines properly so it makes sense.
"A" way and not "the" way. Good stuff!
Mr. Howe,
Good stuff. I remember you mentioning that style reload in a class awhile back, but, you also mentioned the more conventional style in an email, that may have been in regard to pistols though.
Dumping the mag on the ground, is what I "taught" my Soldiers back in the Cold war days, when the likely scenario, or the one you trained for, involved being dug in, in a AAAD, stopping the Soviets from charging thru the Fulda Gap. Or, having just assaulted across your Obj. and prepping for a counter attack.
In both cases, getting the gun gassed up, fast, is of much more importance, then retaining a few rounds in a mag.
It also, allows you to teach basically one reload, the speed load, and that sorta streamlines things.
There are any number of "reloads" out there. Many of them have a place. A good operator should have his head in the game enough, to be able to read the situation, and use what he needs. Firing from an aerial platform, may call for a reload with retention(I've heard it called the Infantry reload also), sitting in a harden structure, Mr Howe's style.
Something that happens with us a lot, you become distracted with "action on the obj." securing adversaries, friendlies, unknowns, buddy and self aid, etc. combine that with short response time lines, means guys sometimes find themselves "tac loading" at the "wrong time". Just speed loading, then picking up the mag, if you have time and security, could be an appropriate technique.
Dump pouches, I understand your aversion to them, based on noise, but, for a lot of us, we ain't ninjaing anywhere. Also, most pockets are covered by drop legs, and other gear, or even possibly chem suits. Having been in the no dump pouch situation, I think the pluses will outweigh the negatives.
Definitely some food for thought though.
Bob
Thanks, Bob.
In my day the first "dump pouch" was down our shirt as we did not wear the kevlar that is out today and we were more in a dismounted patrolling mode. Somebody then sewed velcro on the flap of a two quart canteen pouch and that was the first dump pouch I saw. I can take em or leave em, but they don't make or break the tactical situation.
As for reloads, I try to keep it simple and only practice one or two. They should work across the spectrum to include CQB. If you keep your situations simple and understand that you should reload before you move and before you put hands on. Tac reload if your weapon is empty, low or malfunctioned. It will keep training simple and should work in any environment, jungle, desert, urban, etc.
As for drop down holsters, we are trying to move away from them. I have found that putting gear on your legs is counter-productive to movement and training. In effect, you are strapping down heavy muscles used for movement and guys that move from urban to any type of brush quickly pay the price. With every step, you are meeting resistance. We are teaching to get the holster up on or close to the belt as you will practice one draw stroke or area to recover the pistol. As most tac guys in the LE arena are part time guys, their primary job is patrol and their sidearm is mostly on their hip. This way it keeps it in one spot and they become more efficient with one system.
Also, drop down leg holsters, if mounted too low, cause the shooter to dip or drop his shoulder on the firing side resulting in excessive movement.
Thanks again for your input.
Paul
Paul,
I remember being taught to put mags down my shirt....its the only time I ever lost a mag in the Army:D
I also used my butt pack, before we called anything a dump pouch.
As for drop rigs, I see their draw backs, and most guys are moving away from them. Some of us are mandated by work to use them though. I wear mine as high as I can, with the butt of the pistol at the bottom to middle of the belt, just low enough to clear my vest, when your short like me, that kinda becomes an issue also.
Some guys wear them like ankle holsters, and I don't get it. I show them the issues with running, slower draws, etc. but all they care about is comfort. Some guys run up to 4 M4 mags on sub loads also, with the same issues, again, you can lead them to water, but they'll only drown.
In fact most guys put more thought into their new IPhone then magazine placement:(
I do like the idea of only practicing one or two techniques, especially if they can be easily modified for the situation.
The reload you describe above, to me, is just a speed load, the one reload you need to be really good at, so it gets the most practice.
Interesting on the press check, there are some out there, who feel the forward assist is unneeded.
Thanks for the info,
Bob
theblackknight
07-31-11, 17:44
People tend to deal with logic and proof pretty well.
Do they? I think it's pretty safe to say in our clan down at the extreme gumby level(where I'm at), I can pretty much count on those 2 things being UA in just about any training that goes on. I still have some people who keep mags in pouch rounds up and do EVERYthing with thier dom hand.
Failure2Stop
07-31-11, 20:16
Do they? I think it's pretty safe to say in our clan down at the extreme gumby level(where I'm at), I can pretty much count on those 2 things being UA in just about any training that goes on. I still have some people who keep mags in pouch rounds up and do EVERYthing with thier dom hand.
Then revert to pain, intimidation, and humiliation.
BTW, I am in town, shoot me a PM if you want a sit-down.
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