View Full Version : Glock 26 or S&W 642 "Moon Clip" for summer carry?
As it has gotten hotter and hotter I am finding it less and less easy to carry my Glock 19 concealed. I am looking for a smaller easier to carry summer pistol. Right now I am torn between the Glock 26 and S&W 642 "moon clip".
I know there are disputes as far as caliber effectiveness especially with the .38 Special but I need something more convenient to carry in the summer.
For those of you with experience carrying either or both please help with advice? If there is something else that you would recommend in the $400-$500 range please feel free and explain why.
JP
F-Trooper05
06-02-11, 17:10
If it were me I'd take the 26 over a revolver in a heart beat. But the 26 feels almost identical to the 19 when you carry IWB, so downgrading probably wouldn't do you much good IMO.
JP, how did you want to carry the gun? What F-Trooper05 said about IWB makes sense.
For pocket carry the G26 is heavy ~ 27oz but it's doable for some folks with a good belt. You may have to shop for new pants/shorts though for bigger pockets. Not so much caliber, but for accuracy and shootability I think it has an advantage over the 642. But the 642 fits into more pants pockets I think.
Well I am a lil partial because I do carry a 26 everyday all seasons. For me it is the best when you consider weight, compactness, and round count. I use a Comptac Mtac IWB holster. I carry it that way every day and find that for me it works well.
G19, it is the new J-frame: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=81729.
Except for ankle carry, I have not found an occasion where a G26 could be hidden, but not a G19...
Ha, sixth post in and so far no one has voted for the S&W over the Glock. It'll be interesting to see how that changes, or doesn't, as the thread goes on.
That said I voted for, and have carried, the 26 over the J frame since I got my 26 in the first year or two of it's production.
IMO we have to know how you're going to carry this gun to make a meaningful recommendation.
If you intend to pocket carry, I'd advise an airweight j-frame, especially the centennial models (442, 642).
If you're going to carry IWB, I'd recommend a Kahr CW9. It's slimmer than a G26/G19, weighs about 15 oz. without a mag, holds 7-8 (+1) of 9mm, has good sights, and can be had for about $435 + tax. IME it takes a pocket of unusual size and shape to allow a smooth draw with the small 9mms (Kahrs, Walther PPS, etc), whereas my 642s draw smoothly and quickly from just about any of my pockets.
I'll defer to Doc on the G26 and ankle carry.
JP, how did you want to carry the gun? What F-Trooper05 said about IWB makes sense.
For pocket carry the G26 is heavy ~ 27oz but it's doable for some folks with a good belt. You may have to shop for new pants/shorts though for bigger pockets. Not so much caliber, but for accuracy and shootability I think it has an advantage over the 642. But the 642 fits into more pants pockets I think.
IMO we have to know how you're going to carry this gun to make a meaningful recommendation.
If you intend to pocket carry, I'd advise an airweight j-frame, especially the centennial models (442, 642).
If you're going to carry IWB, I'd recommend a Kahr CW9. It's slimmer than a G26/G19, weighs about 15 oz. without a mag, holds 7-8 (+1) of 9mm, has good sights, and can be had for about $435 + tax. IME it takes a pocket of unusual size and shape to allow a smooth draw with the small 9mms (Kahrs, Walther PPS, etc), whereas my 642s draw smoothly and quickly from just about any of my pockets.
I'll defer to Doc on the G26 and ankle carry.
My carry method will not be one method. Pocket or belly band most likely depending on attire. If it is possible to carry the Glock 19 I do. In a Comptac IWB rig by Minotaur with a polo over it. It usually works fairly well. But Polos are the limit of what I will wear over it. I don't feel comfortable down grading to a tee shirt which is why I am looking for something smaller. I am leaning toward the S&W 642 but I'm open to others like the glock.
JP
My vote goes to an automatic. M&Pc compact has become by heat of choice, even for quick trips to the stop and rob. I only carry my 380 when I am wearing gym shorts and want to carry something only slightly better than a Spyderco.
Just sold my Smith 342 to a buddy of mine this week. I carry a 26 as a back up on patrol and a 19 while off duty. If for some reason I couldn't carry a 19 off duty I always had the 26 on me. In the last three years I never carried that 342 so I thought I would turn it into some coin.
YMMV but for me, I was always more accurate with the 26 when compared to the 342, the 26 held twice as many rounds and they were 9mm which for me was more comforting, the trigger was way better on the 26 compared to the 342.
Hope it helps.
I vote for the 26 because of the added ammo and the size isn't that different. It is also a lot easier to load in a hurry. I think you will find most of these points were already talked about in this thread:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=81729
I own both and find myself pocket carrying the j-frame more than IWB carrying the Glock.
I can see that the 26 might not be great for pocket carry. On the belt I think even though it it as thick as the 19 its grip is shorter so it might conceal easier. I fully believe that the 26 would be easier to shoot well than a J frame as I have shot my wife's 642 and group that horribly compared to my 19. I know the 26 has an edge in capacity, and 9mm has an edge in performance. I'm just worried I'd get the 26 and it wouldn't be as convenient to carry as a J frame and I'd end up going without anything as I sometimes do with my 19. Since either way it will be a primarily summer gun I'll be carrying in pockets, belly band, and maybe the occasional IWB does that play into the choice or would you guys still advocate the 26?
JP
Based on the above info, the 26 would be out for me.
It is just too big in all the wrong places to work as a pocket gun for me. Heck even a snub is pushing it to be honest, my "true" pocket gun is a Ruger LCP. Now THAT lil bastard is disappears in the pocket and is very light...
I know, its a .380, but at least its still a 92gr fmj .380 moving at about 950 fps as opposed to my fist moving much slower towards some aggressors face...
-Drew
Caveat: I am 6'-1" and 175-180 lbs. This matters in these cases more than some people let on.
I can't carry a G26 in a pocket or on an ankle with my body type and the type of clothes that I wear. If either of those are options you may consider, you might take that into account.
I also CAN conceal the G26 at times when the G19 would be difficult. Again, likely goes to body type and mode of dress, but also to consequences of the bulge. If you are in environments where you are known to be a gunowner but may not be allowed to carry or would prefer not to, even the slightest bulge could be indicative to someone that you are carrying. Again, unique combination FOR ME of body type, attire, and situation.
Those things said, I can only just barely conceal the j-frame in a pocket and I find that it drags at my britches just enough to necessitate a belt, which negates the purpose for me. So I wind up with a Keltec .32 in the pocket in those cases under the "a gun is better than no gun" concept. I am generally not happy about it but it's also generally not like I'm wandering into occupied territory armed that way. A friend works in Little Haiti and I do not go there with a .32 in the pocket, FWIW.
Which brings me to a concept that I apply, and which may or may not work for others. There is much hay made about "you can't pick when you are going to get in a gunfight", and that is clearly, absolutely, true. However, for a typical suburban middle-class, middle-aged, male there is frankly very, very little chance of you getting into a raging gun battle. Situational awareness, not putting yourself in bad spots, etc. are all FAR more important than the gun you are carrying. So when I am out walking my dog in my upper-middle-class neighborhood, surrounded by other upper-middle-class neighborhoods, I may only have a .32 in the pocket. Yes, I may very well regret that one day but it is a choice I make after consideration and it is the choice that works for me. Bad actors stand out like a sore thumb here and if I need that .32 it's either for a mad dog or I have totally failed myself in maintaining situational awareness.
I'm just worried I'd get the 26 and it wouldn't be as convenient to carry as a J frame and I'd end up going without anything as I sometimes do with my 19.
JP
If that is a real concern for you (you can't force yourself to carry the bigger gun) then the lighter revolver may be the better choice than the G26. A G19 and a 5 shot snubbie can cover all the concealment bases.
I've had a 642, have a 340M&P and LCR 38. The LCR was much easier for me to shoot accurately, I was able to get a 3.5" 5 shot offhand group in slow fire at 25yds and I never could do that with a J frame. It's not so much the lighter trigger but the grip geometry that allows me to shoot the LCR like a K or L frame, not with my trigger finger cocked out like I have to with a J frame. You can also get the LCR with a tritium big dot front sight which I have. It was ~$450 at the local gunshow with non-tritium models ~$400. I carry it with the Hogue boot grip which is smaller but still more comfortable to shoot than the boot grips on the J frame.
jmlshooter
06-03-11, 08:54
There is no circumstance in which I prefer my J to my 26. It is truly a weapon of last resort.
If that is a real concern for you (you can't force yourself to carry the bigger gun) then the lighter revolver may be the better choice than the G26. A G19 and a 5 shot snubbie can cover all the concealment bases.
I've had a 642, have a 340M&P and LCR 38. The LCR was much easier for me to shoot accurately, I was able to get a 3.5" 5 shot offhand group in slow fire at 25yds and I never could do that with a J frame. It's not so much the lighter trigger but the grip geometry that allows me to shoot the LCR like a K or L frame, not with my trigger finger cocked out like I have to with a J frame. You can also get the LCR with a tritium big dot front sight which I have. It was ~$450 at the local gunshow with non-tritium models ~$400. I carry it with the Hogue boot grip which is smaller but still more comfortable to shoot than the boot grips on the J frame.
I may have to look at the LCR, it is BUTT UGLY but if it shoots that well?? If I did get a J frame I would drop in the Apex trigger kit for sure. Guys, I am not I repeat not a fan of the J frame over my 19 for any other reason than the hottest times when I need something that doesnt require a IWB and gun belt I have been able to successfully carry with my Comptac CTAC holster and belt with only a polo covering it. I tried in a t-shirt and some of them printed pretty bad which is why I am looking for something smaller. Most of you seem to prefer the 26 over the J frame but then a) don't think the 26 is a good pocket gun due to it's weight and bulk, and b) think that if you can conceal a 26 you can conceal a 19? Is there another choice I should look at, rather than these two? I have seen Ruger LCR, and Khar PM9 mentioned?
JP
There's not much reason to carry a wheel gun at this time in history.
9 and 40 make good short barrel performers. And the compact glocks give up nothing in reliability.
My carry method will not be one method. Pocket or belly band most likely depending on attire. If it is possible to carry the Glock 19 I do. In a Comptac IWB rig by Minotaur with a polo over it. It usually works fairly well. But Polos are the limit of what I will wear over it. I don't feel comfortable down grading to a tee shirt which is why I am looking for something smaller. I am leaning toward the S&W 642 but I'm open to others like the glock.
JP
Good info. The 642 will work very well in a pocket or belly band. The single stack 9mm guns I mentioned before will work well from a belly band, but not as well from a pocket.
My experience with a belly band is that the guns that work best from a belly band are lightweight and flat in profile, but that offer enough grip to access the gun smoothly and quickly. Overall length of the gun doesn't seem to be such a critical factor until one gets up to the size of a gun that pokes into one's lower regions; that varies with how high/low the band is worn and the person's build. A 642 with narrow grips would do quite well there for almost any adult male. For most folks most of the single stack 9mms would work as well.
Can't speak to how well a G26 works in a belly band, because I've no experience with that gun in a belly band. My guess is the belly band would have to be very tight to support the weight of a 26 and the cover garment would have to be very loose to conceal the G26's width.
I may have to look at the LCR, it is BUTT UGLY but if it shoots that well?? If I did get a J frame I would drop in the Apex trigger kit for sure. Guys, I am not I repeat not a fan of the J frame over my 19 for any other reason than the hottest times when I need something that doesnt require a IWB and gun belt I have been able to successfully carry with my Comptac CTAC holster and belt with only a polo covering it. I tried in a t-shirt and some of them printed pretty bad which is why I am looking for something smaller. Most of you seem to prefer the 26 over the J frame but then a) don't think the 26 is a good pocket gun due to it's weight and bulk, and b) think that if you can conceal a 26 you can conceal a 19? Is there another choice I should look at, rather than these two? I have seen Ruger LCR, and Khar PM9 mentioned?
JP
I have 2 LCR's and they are sweeeeet shooters! Just like my glocks, they are gtg right out of the box.
Edit: I have tried pocketing the PM9 and its a no-go for me. Unless its tiny, like a Keltec/LCP, it wont draw for shit for me out of a pocket. The Sunbs are much smoother to draw and dont have to worry about getting the rear of the slide hung on the pocket edge. Just my experience...
........
Edit: I have tried pocketing the PM9 and its a no-go for me. Unless its tiny, like a Keltec/LCP, it wont draw for shit for me out of a pocket. The Sunbs are much smoother to draw and dont have to worry about getting the rear of the slide hung on the pocket edge. Just my experience...
My experience as well. I tried off and on for a couple of years to find a way to make the PM9 work as a pocket gun to replace my 642s as weakside pocket backup gun. Ran into exactly the same issue as Drew with the rear of the slide catching on the pocket edge fouling the draw. Tried various holsters; nothing helped. Any other 9mm with an even somewhat square rear slide profile will likely cause the same problem.
Perhaps the PM9 is too small and too big. It's unnecessrily small for IWB or maybe belly band or ankle carry, but too big for pocket carry. The bigger Kahrs in 9mm (P9, CW9, TP9, T9, K9) give you more grip, longer sight radius, and arguably better reliability/durability than the PM9. I still have my PM9 and keep hoping that I'll find a way to pocket carry it someday.
Another factor worth considering IMO: One thing not mentioned in this thread IIRC is the relative training challenge associated with a particular gun. IMO the lightweight revolver presents a relatively large training challenge with its heavy trigger, light weight, short sight radius, poor sights, somewhat heavy recoil, etc. To gain and maintain good proficiency with it will be more resource-intensive than gaining and maintaining a similar level of proficiency with a Kahr 9mm, Walther PPS 9mm, Glock 26, etc..
My experience as well. I tried off and on for a couple of years to find a way to make the PM9 work as a pocket gun to replace my 642s as weakside pocket backup gun. Ran into exactly the same issue as Drew with the rear of the slide catching on the pocket edge fouling the draw. Tried various holsters; nothing helped. Any other 9mm with an even somewhat square rear slide profile will likely cause the same problem.
Perhaps the PM9 is too small and too big. It's unnecessrily small for IWB or maybe belly band or ankle carry, but too big for pocket carry. The bigger Kahrs in 9mm (P9, CW9, TP9, T9, K9) give you more grip, longer sight radius, and arguably better reliability/durability than the PM9. I still have my PM9 and keep hoping that I'll find a way to pocket carry it someday.
Another factor worth considering IMO: One thing not mentioned in this thread IIRC is the relative training challenge associated with a particular gun. IMO the lightweight revolver presents a relatively large training challenge with its heavy trigger, light weight, short sight radius, poor sights, somewhat heavy recoil, etc. To gain and maintain good proficiency with it will be more resource-intensive than gaining and maintaining a similar level of proficiency with a Kahr 9mm, Walther PPS 9mm, Glock 26, etc..
Agreed. One of the reasons I went with a LCP as a BUG is due to the same manual of arms from loading to clearing malfs...
Agreed. One of the reasons I went with a LCP as a BUG is due to the same manual of arms from loading to clearing malfs...
This is an important issue IMO. Ideally developmenent of skills on one type of equipment with which a person trains should reinforce, and not conflict with, development of skills on another type of equipment with which a person trains. It should be taken into account if one has to train on dissimilar types of equipment.
Nephrology
06-03-11, 19:32
I am now interested in this thread as well. I just came into a lump of money and have set aside ~500 bucks for a pistol purchase.
I already own a G17 and a G19. A g26 seems like a good way to round off the 9mm family. Any reason to get the j-frame over the G26? All sights are saying no.
Will a g26 fit in a comp-tacMTAC designed for a g19?
19/26 fit the same mtac.
If you have little inerest in pocket carrying the 26 it should serve you well. The 26 is my edc. It is only slightly smaller than the 19, but for me its smaller in all the right places.
Snub would be better for pocket though
Can you envision any situation where you wouldn't be able to belt carry but a snub would allow you to be armed?
Nephrology
06-03-11, 20:19
19/26 fit the same mtac.
If you have little inerest in pocket carrying the 26 it should serve you well. The 26 is my edc. It is only slightly smaller than the 19, but for me its smaller in all the right places.
Snub would be better for pocket though
Can you envision any situation where you wouldn't be able to belt carry but a snub would allow you to be armed?
Yes, I can. In fact it is a somewhat relevant consideration, which is why I am still undecided...
However, my concern with a snub is that it would not really fit comfortably into my pocket ; that said, I have never tried it, so I might be wrong.
I have pocket carried my buddy's LCP quite a bit and it was great. .380, however, leaves much to be desired. I have shot his a few times and could barely keep it on a pie plate at 7 yards.
I hear ya on the snub in the pants pocket thing, its snug for sure on my build. I too have an LCP for the pocket and that is where she shines. I put a CT unit on it and a 13lb wolff spring in it and it is quite manageable with a bit of range time. I kept my snubs for winter for carry in my overcoat pockets.
I only carry fmj in 380 as the round lacks the ass to dig deep in the target. I figure its always on me if I'm out of bed and it serves as my bug when I gun up with one of my 9mm Glocks.
I've actually switched to a low riding 2:30 position holster with a fair amount of cant for my G19 (made by brian abate of atomic dog holster who does very fine work) and ditched my 26.
that said, the 26 IS an excellent summer carry gun
I was just at their website looking at his stuff. By any chance could you post up a few pics? I would be really interested in seeing that holster.
Drew
The training aspect which is being brought to light is making me think twice on the j frame. I am a Glock guy I have 2 and have owned many others so with a mini Glock the training curve would be small unlike the j frame. So maybe even with the 26's shortcomings it may be a better fit for me?
JP
Why not s&w 638? I never hear anything on this option.
Lost River
06-03-11, 22:36
I voted other.
I carry a G19 off duty the vast majority of the time, even in the hottest months of the summer. If I am going to get into a fight, I would prefer the G19.
Crow Hunter
06-03-11, 22:49
I voted G26.
I carried one a couple of years ago all around New Orleans. In July during 102-107 degree heat. I saw all the sights during the day too while my wife was in her conference. Including going into places I probably shouldn't have been carrying but they didn't have any signs up. It sure was comforting to have something I knew could shoot well and quickly when those two punks tried to hit me up for a "dolla". Luckily for all 3 of us a stern look and a "no" was all that came of it.
I tried it with the G19 at home before the trip but it wasn't as "invisible" as the G26 was. Around home, I don't worry too much as it is a fairly "permissive" environment and even if someone knows that slight bulge isn't a cell phone, they are probably packing too and don't say anything.
Although I was legal in NO, I didn't want to draw any attention to myself if I didn't have too.
I used to own a S&W 640 and I have fired a 442 and I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn from the inside with either of them. Not only that, the 442 hurt my hand, even with just 130 gr target loads. Enough that I wouldn't want to practice with it enough to be truly proficient.
However, nothing goes into/out of a pocket holster quite like a revolver. If you can shoot it well enough to feel comfortable with it, it will most likely conceal better. I personally try to dress around my G19/26 even if I have to look a little sloppy. Heck I'm 37 and married for 11 years, what do I need to look sharp for?:jester:
I was just at their website looking at his stuff. By any chance could you post up a few pics? I would be really interested in seeing that holster.
Drew
ok.. few quick pics here... i'd been meaning to do a mini-review of this holster. took quite a while to get this holster made, but price was very fair (actually just paid a blue gun for it) and quality is excellent. I sent brian a few pics of my glock stuffed "mexican carry" style (unloaded of course) into my waistband at the cant and height i wanted. This is what he cooked up.
teh second photo shows the behind the belt clips made by AD. They've well made and quite secure, but make taking the holster on and off a bit of a chore as i usually have to remove my belt to do it. I've put a set of comptac clips off a minotaur holster on instead.
note the little outrigger behind the holster, this allows some added flexibility as well as keeping the rearmost clip out of the way when drawing. both AD's clips and the comptac clips allow for tucked shirt wear.
I hope the photos do justice to the compactness and tight-to body fit this holster allows.
I've been wearing this holster 8-15 hours a day, pretty much every day for the last 3 months. Very comfortable, very concealable. It's as fast as anything i've used on the range. I do tend toward a sweep from behind draw when drawing from a concealment holster to assure a solid firing grip. So being as low and tight as it is it will feel different than a duty holster obviously, but i think with training it's just as good, especially considering the concealment and comfort benefits of this setup.
Holy Crap man!!!
Thanks for the pics, that looks like the tightest to the body Kydex rig I have ever seen. Very intersted, may have a few more questions for you soon.
Thanks agian for the effort!
-Drew
Holy Crap man!!!
Thanks for the pics, that looks like the tightest to the body Kydex rig I have ever seen. Very intersted, may have a few more questions for you soon.
Thanks agian for the effort!
-Drew
no problem, been meaning to post a review of this thing forever.
I'd send brian pics of your gun stuffed in your waistband where you want it. top and side views. He seems to have basically molded this thing to my hip. I've been adapting various holsters to the 2:30 carry position. namely a raven phantom (who i suspect could also build you a holster like this) a neutral cant minotaur (not enough cant turns out) and a high noon mr softy with my G26.
the high noon was actually sort of the inpiration for this. it rides very low and is very minimalist. The downside of the mr softy being that it had only one belt attachment point, so it couldn't' really be relied on for having your weapon in the exact position you expected every time. it tended to set the grip of the gun basically right on your pants. not ideal for draw speed. the atomic dog on the other hand has nice positive retention, and doesn't shift at all.
Well went to the gun store today and left with a Glock 27, fail zero coated slide and barrel, night sights. So my delima is over.
JP
Nice!
Congrats on the new pistola. How do you like that finish? What gen is it? Pics???
Nice!
Congrats on the new pistola. How do you like that finish? What gen is it? Pics???
It's nice. The Fail Zero slide and barrel plus the Ameriglo night sights put me over. I planned on getting a glock 26 but the 27 with the fail zero finish and night sights was only $100 more than a plane jane glock 26 so I couldn't pass that up. I'll post pics up later next week as it didn't take me long to take it apart and start a trigger job and grip reduction. Right now the back strap is full of epoxy curing for 72 hours before I can grind on it :D
JP
J-frame because I just don't think you're going to find a g26 all that easier or more comfortable to carry/conceal vs a g19. For me, summer carry means pocket carry in a pair of shorts and the 642 is perfect for this.
I own all three and can carry all three and while I'd rather have the g19 with me in a gunfight, the 642 is what's in my pocket right now and is what I carry the most often.
Glock 26 because I always outshoot the J frame.
Glock 26 because I always outshoot the J frame.
This is one of the reasons I finally decided on the mini glock. My wife has a 642 and I cannot group that thing for crap compared to any glock I have ever shot.
JP
Ok well the epoxy didn't take as long to cure as I thought, (because of the heat). This is the Glock 27 I just got after much deliberation and help from you all.
http://i848.photobucket.com/albums/ab50/jp0319/IMG_0224-1.jpg
As I said before it came with fail zero coating on the slide and barrel, and ameriglo sights. I did a mild grip reduction, rounded the trigger guard, re-textured the grip, and did a basic trigger job until the wolff reduced power spring kit comes in. Some pearce grip extensions and I'll be done.
JP
Wow! Your grip wosk looks really good, very professional.
Well done-
Wow! Your grip wosk looks really good, very professional.
Well done-
Thank you very much.
JP
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