View Full Version : Opinion on the XS Standard Express sights for M&P
I want to replace the fixed sights that I have on the pistol and replace them with night sights for duty carry and for training. I was perusing Bowie Tactical website and saw the XS sights. Does anyone have any experience or opinion on these sights? There seems like alot of people are satisfied with them.
The other sights I was considering is the Ameriglo Bowie Tactical tritium 3 dot sights with the green/yellow combination.
I used the Big Dots for about a year, and found them extremely fast for minute-of-chest shooting.
But I struggled like a mofo when trying to make precision shots, like on a hostage-type target.
I really wanted to make XS sights work, so I tried the Standard Dots, hoping to gain back my precision shooting ability.
Although I did regain some of my precision accuracy, I found the front sight dot almost too small to use with the rear post.
In my opinion - and for my shooting abilities - the Big Dots are outstanding for FAST minute-of-chest shooting.
They really nailed the design - front sight size and rear post size.
But I couldn't train-into them for precision shots.
Kind of a side note: I can't ever remember returning anything to a store, etc. When I decided to try the Standard Dots, I called Brownell's to ask questions about them - plus I have a Dealer's Acct there and the prices are usually better.
Long story short: I was told I could try the Standard Dots, and if I didn't like them, they would refund my money.
I did, I didn't, and they did.
Guns-up.50
06-03-11, 20:14
I dont know much about the xs express. Ive heard good fast target accusition but lack in fine percision. I run a wide 10-8 rear and a novak trit on my 1911 and a 10-8 on glock with soon to be a trijicon hd (yellow) in the front. They work for me
I have a pair on a Sig 226 stainless, and really like them. Nothing is faster to pick up then the XS sights imho. Youtube xs sights and you'll get plenty of info. I'm getting a new HK45 and think I'll put a pair on that as well.
I have the big dot XS. They worked great for me during the day but when it went to night fire I was missing the dueling tree and got my ass kicked and my confidence too. I used a fellow officers gun with standard 3 dot trijicons and was shooting very well again on the dueling tree. I'm not sure why other than I've used a 3 dot night sight for 19 years.
Littlelebowski
06-03-11, 20:54
No. Do not.
guy at a magpul dynamics pistol class I was at 2 summers ago had what I think was the Big Dot XS (it was some sort of XS sight) on his gun. Up close he was fast. Past around 10 or 15 or 20 yards he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with them. I don't remember exactly where he fell flat. When we did a 1-mag -- 50 yard contest on a steel plate (around 8" or 10" in IIRC) he couldn't hit even though he had like 17 rounds in his mag. Most of the rest of us hit in 1-8/10 shots. I don't know if these were the standards or the big dot by they were XS of some sort.
My astigmatism is what lead me to the big dot. I just could not see the FS clearly and can again. I've thought if the rear peep sights too.
No. Do not.
You ought to add that as a sig line addition. I installed a set on a friends Glock 22 3rd gen for him. I absolutely hated the sights. I see them recommended on various forums periodically and have to wonder.
If it carries any weight with you in a recent Vicker's tactical pistol class he tore the sights up pretty bad in his lecture. And I agree with him on them.
There is no precision work to be done with them.
Littlelebowski
06-04-11, 05:58
The Big Dot fallacy is that they are supposedly for close in, quick reaction type of personal encounters with bad guys. So....just point shoot and use normal sights.
I have Big Dots on both my HK's (P2000 & P30).
I am 57 years old and have presbyopia; my reading glasses are +2.5. Got a bit of an astigmatism to boot. This means, with uncorrected vision I cannot see any rear sight clearly enough to generally make fine precision shots at 15+ yards. I can see the stripe rear sight of these sight sets well enough to reference the Big Dot front sight. So given my limitations, Big Dots are my compromise of choice.
I am civilian and a Concealed Carry/self defense scenario is my most likely call to arms. So some dark & stormy night, at pretty close range, and pretty quick is what I would generally expect. And in those conditions, the Big Dot should serve well.
In candor, if I was still in my 20's, invincible, invulnerable, and indestructible with perfect vision I'd most likely go a different way.
My apologies to the OP - I realize he asked about Standard Dots, and we're talking more about Big Dots.
I have Big Dots on both my HK's (P2000 & P30).
I am 57 years old and have presbyopia;
I'm not exactly sure how bad your eyes are, so maybe Big Dots are the best for you.
But I highly encourage you to think about this.
I've related this story before.
I was at Paul Howe's Tac Pistol Operator course, and I was the only one there with Big Dots. Paul was gracious about that, but flat out told me no one that used them was able to pass his Tac Pistol Instr Course.
I did fine, until we came to 2 drills:
1. These targets:
http://www.letargets.com/images/PHT-ST.jpg
I managed to shoot as well as everyone else, but I struggled like a mofo. That big ****ing dot was bigger than the BG's head. So I had to kinda center the front site off to the side of where I wanted to shoot, then move the traverse over and hope I was centered.
2. The other was shooting 14" x 6" steel at 20 yds. Estimates on the steel size as I never got close, and estimates on the range as we were using vehicles as cover, etc. Maybe one of the guys that was there could comment.
I got home Sunday evening, and Monday removed the Big Dots from both my pistols.
Again, I highly encourage you - as a CHL holder - to consider whether or not you'll be able to make these types of shots with the Big Dots.
I will say though, I know folks that can.
The Big Dot fallacy is that they are supposedly for close in, quick reaction type of personal encounters with bad guys.
My experience is they are not a fallacy; they work as advertised for fast, close in work.
I was unable to make accurate, precision shots with them.
And I'm not willing to trade precision for speed.
On 13 Apr 2011, we (friends) shot the 10 CSAT Standards.
I passed 7 of 10.
2 were for misses, and 1 was for time.
That one at 25 yds gets me every time.
BS info: Both misses were within time. The one that was over time was a good hit.
Littlelebowski
06-04-11, 08:35
You should try to shoot a pistol equipped with a red dot sight.
I have Big Dots on both my HK's (P2000 & P30).
I am 57 years old and have presbyopia; my reading glasses are +2.5. Got a bit of an astigmatism to boot. This means, with uncorrected vision I cannot see any rear sight clearly enough to generally make fine precision shots at 15+ yards. I can see the stripe rear sight of these sight sets well enough to reference the Big Dot front sight. So given my limitations, Big Dots are my compromise of choice.
I am civilian and a Concealed Carry/self defense scenario is my most likely call to arms. So some dark & stormy night, at pretty close range, and pretty quick is what I would generally expect. And in those conditions, the Big Dot should serve well.
In candor, if I was still in my 20's, invincible, invulnerable, and indestructible with perfect vision I'd most likely go a different way.
Littlelebowski
06-04-11, 08:40
Backstop, my point is that point shooting will do just as well for close in work.
Ameriglo "Hackathorn" front sites are a far more usefull option. Very high visibility, hard to miss font site. Wide rear notch.
You almost can't not pick up that front site at speed....but still have adequate precision to make hard shots.
A much better way to go....
personally, i like Warrens best. With older eyes though, I'll probably move to something like Hackathorns (Ameriglo I-dot pros I think they're called).
Backstop, my point is that point shooting will do just as well for close in work.
Got it now...thanks.
Ameriglo "Hackathorn" front sites are a far more usefull option. Very high visibility, hard to miss font site. Wide rear notch.
You almost can't not pick up that front site at speed....but still have adequate precision to make hard shots.
A much better way to go....
personally, i like Warrens best. With older eyes though, I'll probably move to something like Hackathorns (Ameriglo I-dot pros I think they're called).
I've worked on making XS Big Dots work for years. Full factory set and BD matched to notch rears. Best combo was BD matched to a Warren Sevigny rear. Front to rear visual "fit" was great and dead on POA=POI at 25 yards. Using 12:00 on the BD like a front post I could keep 12 of 15 on a 3x5 card at 25 yards. BUT, it takes a lot of concentration to use a round front as a post and after a good bit of work at it I ran an all steel pistol match with them on a G17 Monday. While I was fresh I did great on big steel and 4" plates at 7-12 yards quickly. After a few hours in high 90's temps and blistering sun and running and gunning I got ATE UP in later stages on the 4" plates. I'd have been better off with standard notch/post setup at that point.
If you like them great. Run with them. But I can hit as fast close with almost anything and get better precision further out with conventional.
The hottest setup I've ever tried is matching an Ameriglo Hackathorn .220 tall front with a Warren Sevigny rear on a Gen 4 G19. Big orange is FAST and visible yet has been very precise at 25 and 50 yards. The perfect combo in my present opinion.
You should try to shoot a pistol equipped with a red dot sight.
Which would you suggest? I have seen JPoints but think they come in 4 or 8 MOA. 4 MOA on an H1 did not work well for me because of my astigmatism. I assume it would be the same or worse in the case of the 8 MOA.
I'm going to try some of the Hackthorn sights you guys recommended above.
Ameriglo "Hackathorn" front sites are a far more usefull option. Very high visibility, hard to miss font site. Wide rear notch.
You almost can't not pick up that front site at speed....but still have adequate precision to make hard shots.
A much better way to go....
personally, i like Warrens best. With older eyes though, I'll probably move to something like Hackathorns (Ameriglo I-dot pros I think they're called).
I've got their proglo front sight (I think that's what is included w/ the hacks) with pro operator rears on my g19, and think that setup gives a pretty good blend of speed and precision. I'd expect similar results w/ the hacks.
I've never tried big dots but the concept doesn't appeal to me. I'm not willing to give up the precision. I think if you're worried about your speed up close you'd be better served spending more time training rather than going with a sight that compromises precision for speed.
You should try to shoot a pistol equipped with a red dot sight.
I agree.
I've been following reports about red dots on pistols with much more than passing interest; this seems very promising, particularly for my issues. My first twitch is it is still a bit early and that better will come along soon.
Back to topic, I think the rear sight of the XS system could be improved upon. I like the tritium stripe, however the shape of the rear sight offers little in regard to visual reference points. Some folks have used Big Dots and Standard Dots with other rears sights with success, e.g. Novak Ghost.
Ameriglo "Hackathorn" front sites are a far more usefull option. Very high visibility, hard to miss font site. Wide rear notch.
You almost can't not pick up that front site at speed....but still have adequate precision to make hard shots.
A much better way to go....
personally, i like Warrens best. With older eyes though, I'll probably move to something like Hackathorns (Ameriglo I-dot pros I think they're called).
I do have Hackathorns on my on/off duty Glock 19. I really like the orange front sight, but is I want to replace the plain rear with the pro operator series. do you know if this combination is compatibler with the Hack front sight?
http://youtu.be/AY5RURFEGd8
http://youtu.be/iQVCeJ103BQ
A few videos reference XS Big Dot sights.
Alpha Sierra
06-05-11, 21:10
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop_uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DxFUeepqh1-Q&v=xFUeepqh1-Q&gl=US
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=iQVCeJ103BQ
A few videos reference XS Big Dot sights.
You might wanna check those links, chief
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