View Full Version : Need Help Deciding on Barrel Profiles
I'm looking to get a 16" BCM middy as my one and only do it all AR. I'm debating between standard profile aka: pencil barrel, and Govt profile.
Here are my intentions for this rifle.
1) I want a good defense carbine and the lighter barrel will make it really handy.
2) I also want to shoot at range. I reload and want to send my 75-77gr bullets out there. I am fortunate enough to have access to a 1100yd range where I live so the sky is the limit. I just don't want to get a standard profile and wish I had gone with the Govt profile.
3) I also want to use it for Coyote hunting this winter. I'm sure either barrel will be fine for that, but I wanted to be sure to state all 3 of my intended purposes for this carbine.
To sum it up, purpose #2 is the real deciding factor.
Given my intentions for this carbine I would appreciate any incite in this decision. Thanks.
I have no idea if one will be more accurate, however they are both 1/7 twist and they are both chrome lined. I think I would try and get a hammer forged barrel if possible.
Aside from that it's all about preference.
I'm looking to get a 16" BCM middy as my one and only do it all AR. I'm debating between standard profile aka: pencil barrel, and Govt profile.
Here are my intentions for this rifle.
1) I want a good defense carbine and the lighter barrel will make it really handy.
2) I also want to shoot at range. I reload and want to send my 75-77gr bullets out there. I am fortunate enough to have access to a 1100yd range where I live so the sky is the limit. I just don't want to get a standard profile and wish I had gone with the Govt profile.
3) I also want to use it for Coyote hunting this winter. I'm sure either barrel will be fine for that, but I wanted to be sure to state all 3 of my intended purposes for this carbine.
To sum it up, purpose #2 is the real deciding factor.
Given my intentions for this carbine I would appreciate any incite in this decision. Thanks.
I wouldn't get a government profile. If you are set on a chrome lined barrel, I would go lightweight, or if you can come across it, a Noveske N4 barrel.
However, if you have a 1100 yard range and want to shoot handloads, I would look hard at a Noveske Recon, which is a medium profile. Should be plenty accurate. I know BCM has a very good rep for their SS barrels as well. If your #2 item is what you're really looking at, I would look to more of a recce style upper.
The litmus test I use is to ask what kind of optics you're going to run. If all you want is a T-1 or Eotech, just run a CL barrel. If you are going for a vari and handloads, I think you will be better served with a SS barrel.
Since #2 (long range accuracy) is your main factor, have you considered the 16"SS barrels? Probably 8 oz, heavier than the pencil barrel, but should be better at long range. I can't see how a M4 profile will help you in either case.
If price isnt a huge factor... A light stainless Noveske barrel would meet you criteria just about perfectly.
like has been said in so many words, get a quality barrel. Noveske sells there stainless barrels for builds, BCM sells there CHF barrels very reasonable and M.O.Yote accurate all day long. The super thin barrels don't impress me, but to each his own on that.
My 11.5 BCM will shoot 1.5 inch groups with 55grain vmax hunting ammo. Thats a yore's worst nightmare :D
#1 and #2 are somewhat mutually exclusive.
I'd build a fighting gun and a White Oak Armament barreled accurate gun.
I'm looking to get a 16" BCM middy as my one and only do it all AR. I'm debating between standard profile aka: pencil barrel, and Govt profile.
Here are my intentions for this rifle.
1) I want a good defense carbine and the lighter barrel will make it really handy.
2) I also want to shoot at range. I reload and want to send my 75-77gr bullets out there. I am fortunate enough to have access to a 1100yd range where I live so the sky is the limit. I just don't want to get a standard profile and wish I had gone with the Govt profile.
3) I also want to use it for Coyote hunting this winter. I'm sure either barrel will be fine for that, but I wanted to be sure to state all 3 of my intended purposes for this carbine.
To sum it up, purpose #2 is the real deciding factor.
Given my intentions for this carbine I would appreciate any incite in this decision. Thanks.
Since #2 is the deciding factor, you want a stainless barrel in at least the medium, if not HBAR profile. The standard profile and Govt profile barrels will give you the same amount of practical accuracy, and in order to see a difference you'd need to be shooting from a rest under controlled conditions. Given the group size that the Army SDM rifles are getting with match ammo compared to the standard M4, the choice of a barrel for you purposes should be academic.
Stainless or chromoly vanadium makes no practical difference in accuracy at long range. It only makes a difference in how barrel wear affects accuracy. Accuracy with a stainless barrel will remain consistent until it suffers a sudden loss of performance.
Chromoly barrels will show a gradual loss of accuracy as the barrel wears.
M4 & Government barrel profiles are thick ahead of the gas block and thin behind it, exactly opposite of what's needed to deal with the heat.
A "pencil" barrel will give the carbine a better balance and a livelier feel. It will give the same accuracy as a heavier profile barrel but will exhibit less consistency with changes in temperature and ammunition. A good chrome plated barrel will extend the life of the barrel in exchange for a small sacrifice in accuracy.
The distance at which good hits can be made with a 16" lightweight barrel, will surprise you.
Overall, an in spec barrel known to be of good quality, regardless if it's chromoly or stainless, chrome lined or not, is never a bad choice
Ok it seems most are suggesting not to get the Govt profile. In which case the BCM cookie cutter route may not be the best route to go on this. Looks like this one is going to turn into a build to suit. The Govt profile never made sense to me anyways to have it thicker up front instead of the rear. Now the idea of a Noveske lightweight profile barrel is something I can really get behind. Are there any other manufacturers that make a profile similar to this?
Unfortunately there is a budget. After reading all the responses, I'm looking for a 16" middy upper with a pencil barrel, or Noveske lightweight profile preferably. I want to keep the weight down but may be open to a medium contour barrel. Also I want a VTAC 13" TRX rail, and say something along the lines of an A2 flash hider to stay within budget. Minus irons, charging handle, and a BCG for around $700.
I'm not all up to date on the barrel manufacturers quality control and accuracy so I would appreciate assistance on that as well. For example I had never heard of White Oak armament before. I need to choose a quality barrel that meets my simple accuracy needs while staying in budget. I'm looking for handload accuracy minimum of .75-1.0" at 100 yards, and maintaining atleast MOA out to 600 yards. Most of my shooting will be on steel past 200 yards, so what I need are consistant hits, not necessarily tight groups on paper. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this shouldn't be asking too much from a good quality CHF barrel while using handloads. Chrome lined (CHF) was the initial intent. What I want to know is stainless really worth it for my purposes?
ETA: A couple posts were made while writing this. I'm getting the feeling that a CHF will be just fine for my purposes. Hmmm now the difficult dilemma of barrel profile. Good point with the weather temperatures. Shooting during the summer when it's 80 degrees vs hunting when it's 25 degrees out. I'm still leaning towards pencil barrel or preferably a Noveske lightweight style profile.
Thanks for all the positive feedback so far!
What I meant by temperature changes is the barrel heating up and cooling off from shots fired.
If you want to investigate a good, economical 16" barrel, call Surplus Ammo & Arms and ask about the Black Hole Weaponry barrels they carry. I haven't found the barrels on their website but they have them in their store. BHW barrels have a reputation for being accurate and you cannot beat the price Surplus sells them for
Stainless or chromoly vanadium makes no practical difference in accuracy at long range. It only makes a difference in how barrel wear affects accuracy. Accuracy with a stainless barrel will remain consistent until it suffers a sudden loss of performance.
Chromoly barrels will show a gradual loss of accuracy as the barrel wears.
M4 & Government barrel profiles are thick ahead of the gas block and thin behind it, exactly opposite of what's needed to deal with the heat.
A "pencil" barrel will give the carbine a better balance and a livelier feel. It will give the same accuracy as a heavier profile barrel but will exhibit less consistency with changes in temperature and ammunition. A good chrome plated barrel will extend the life of the barrel in exchange for a small sacrifice in accuracy.
The distance at which good hits can be made with a 16" lightweight barrel, will surprise you.
Overall, an in spec barrel known to be of good quality, regardless if it's chromoly or stainless, chrome lined or not, is never a bad choice
I would tend to agree with the above with the following caveat. If you buy a non match grade barrel it's a bit if a crap shoot as to if it will shoot up to your expectations. With a stainless or chromoly match grade barrel, you know the accuracy will be there. Halfway down the attached page are charts showing what I'm talking about.
http://www.pro-patria.us/designated_marksman
The only issue I'd address is although these charts show that an issue M4 can run with an SPR accuracy wise, the Army has a near unlimited supply of M4's to choose from. If you get a barrel that just doesn't shoot there is not much you can do about it.
You are correct. Material & profile do not matter to accuracy. Barrel quality does
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