View Full Version : Pay your student loans!
Interesting article with video (http://www.news10.net/news/article/141072/2/Dept-of-Education-breaks-down-Stockton-mans-door) detailing what could happen if you don't pay your student loans.
That's pretty ****ing ridiculous.
I WILL say that a lot of college kids are pure idiots when it comes to their student loans. I see a lot of them that sign up for classes just for the money, and after a semester or two they split the scene not giving one whit about actually taking the classes or paying the money back.
Others will get a loan that's maybe 1500 more than what they need for their school and books (textbooks is another ridiculous topic, but that's for another time.) Then they blow or party away the excess.
They don't realize all that will have to be paid back, and if you default on it, you're sorely ****ed.
Since when can you bust into a house over a Debt.
Since when can you bust into a house over a Debt.
Since we have evolved into a police state...
montanadave
06-08-11, 10:22
WTF?
This thread seems destined to quickly shift from a discussion of defaulting on student loans to an egregious abuse of power by civil authorities.
So here comes the lock.
WTF?
This thread seems destined to quickly shift from a discussion of defaulting on student loans to an egregious abuse of power by civil authorities.
So here comes the lock.
I would imagine the intent of the thread is to discuss just that - an abuse of power and using law enforcement - namely a SWAT team to act as the strong-arm of that abuse...
I think there is more to the story. They don’t send in SWAT teams to collect student loans.
Simple solution is don't turn it into an anti-LEO thread. The Department of Education is the one who was in charge and handled everything per the printed and video report. I just found it rather odd that they're resorting to these types of tactics for people who are delinquent on their student loans.
montanadave
06-08-11, 11:07
Simple solution is don't turn it into an anti-LEO thread. The Department of Education is the one who was in charge and handled everything per the printed and video report. I just found it rather odd that they're resorting to these types of tactics for people who are delinquent on their student loans.
But didn't the tail end of the video report the DOE had requested one patrol car to serve the warrant? The statements from the Stockton Police Department seem very much at odds to the statement from the man in the news video.
Somebody isn't telling the truth and every anti-government blogger is jumping all over this story to paint the Department of Education as the new federal Gestapo.
Stay tuned as I think we have yet to hear the truth.
There's a fact somewhere in this issue that was not mentioned in the article.
Something along the lines of an article like "Kids jailed for bringing American flags to school!" causing outrage.... but leaving out the fact that a bunch of punks brought flags to school and tried to strangle a pregnant (insert ethnicity here) teacher.
Simple solution is don't turn it into an anti-LEO thread.
I agree and I think there's a distinct difference between being ant-LEO and anti-abusive LEO... If there are folks out there who are against all things law enforcement, I at least do not welcome their opinions. However, it's becoming abundantly clear that the continued militarization of law enforcement and using SWAT teams for something a knock on the door or a traffic stop could accomplish is something worth discussing.
Littlelebowski
06-08-11, 11:16
There's a fact somewhere in this issue that was not mentioned in the article.
Something along the lines of an article like "Kids jailed for bringing American flags to school!" causing outrage.... but leaving out the fact that a bunch of punks brought flags to school and tried to strangle a pregnant (insert ethnicity here) teacher.
Your faith in our public gov't is encouraging but I do not share it.
Littlelebowski
06-08-11, 11:19
The article said flat out that the guy has no criminal record.
ffhounddog
06-08-11, 11:21
Well I did and paid the most off before I left college. I worked three jobs to go because my parents made too much. Even the ROTC scholorship I got I still needed to work two jobs since ROTC only gave me a partial since my grades were only okay after two years of working three jobs but I made it through.
I wish I could get my goverment workers to work that hard and that I could do something other than look at reports that get filed. Maybe I should call Sen Ryan.
ffh
I don't have time to read these but there are 16 articles about the same subject.
http://news.google.com/news/story?hl=en&biw=1345&bih=622&q=kenneth+wright+stockton+swat+raid+student+loan&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ncl=dB4az6kSH3iwuxMKPw7YtFPPcr_GM&ei=lKLvTcOZCejg0QGx8JiIDQ&sa=X&oi=news_result&ct=more-results&resnum=1&ved=0CCYQqgIwAA
montanadave
06-08-11, 11:54
I don't have time to read these but there are 16 articles about the same subject.
http://news.google.com/news/story?hl=en&biw=1345&bih=622&q=kenneth+wright+stockton+swat+raid+student+loan&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ncl=dB4az6kSH3iwuxMKPw7YtFPPcr_GM&ei=lKLvTcOZCejg0QGx8JiIDQ&sa=X&oi=news_result&ct=more-results&resnum=1&ved=0CCYQqgIwAA
And all source the same story and virtually all are anti-government websites promoting the same theme (i.e. seeking to characterize the Department of Education as an abusive federal bureaucracy using shock troops to crush the constitutional rights of American citizens).
There's a lot more to this story and we haven't seen it yet.
VooDoo6Actual
06-08-11, 11:56
interesting read.
Thx
kaiservontexas
06-08-11, 12:10
Judge should have ordered her assets frozen and sent the letter off with a process server + one with orders telling her when the court date is . . .
easy peasy done everyday.
Cincinnatus
06-08-11, 12:26
Original link not working. Here is an alternate link.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2001010/SWAT-team-launch-dawn-raid-family-home-collect-womans-unpaid-student-loans.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
Littlelebowski
06-08-11, 12:27
And all source the same story and virtually all are anti-government websites promoting the same theme (i.e. seeking to characterize the Department of Education as an abusive federal bureaucracy using shock troops to crush the constitutional rights of American citizens).
There's a lot more to this story and we haven't seen it yet.
The father had no criminal record. The local news were the first ones to report this story. You are looking for something to justify this raid. Did you not see where the DOE asked for a single car, not a SWAT team?
This is terrifying. The gov't is flirting with bringing back debtor's prison at this point.
And all source the same story and virtually all are anti-government websites promoting the same theme (i.e. seeking to characterize the Department of Education as an abusive federal bureaucracy using shock troops to crush the constitutional rights of American citizens).
There's a lot more to this story and we haven't seen it yet.
RED HERRING.
Who cares "what else there is" (even though the story doesn't imply that there is anything in the least)? The warrant was for THE WIFE. Detaining the ex-husband and kids is a violation of rights. He had no criminal history and the children were helpless minors. What is a four year old going to do to a police officer? Throw a farking crayon at him?
Since when it is ok to still a weapon in a child's face because of a LOAN their mother took out? This is a gross abuse of government authority and I hope the lives of the people responsible are ruined permanently over this.
I wouldn't be surprised in the least if someone took vigilante justice out on the people that executed this warrant.
Thomas M-4
06-08-11, 12:40
The father had no criminal record. The local news were the first ones to report this story. You are looking for something to justify this raid. Did you not see where the DOE asked for a single car, not a SWAT team?
This is terrifying. The gov't is flirting with bringing back debtor's prison at this point.
There is not enough prison space they would have to open camps by the hundreds. Sounds **** up for sure.
The father had no criminal record. The local news were the first ones to report this story. You are looking for something to justify this raid. Did you not see where the DOE asked for a single car, not a SWAT team?
This is terrifying. The gov't is flirting with bringing back debtor's prison at this point.
Daniel Shays says: "I told you so"....
There is not enough prison space they would have to open camps by the hundreds.
They already have. Seriously.
"Project Garden Plot (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=project+garden+plot)."
montanadave
06-08-11, 13:18
The father had no criminal record. The local news were the first ones to report this story. You are looking for something to justify this raid. Did you not see where the DOE asked for a single car, not a SWAT team?
This is terrifying. The gov't is flirting with bringing back debtor's prison at this point.
Whoa, we're not connecting. The blogoshere is running amuck with this story as an example of federal authorities battering down the doors of innocents. The original account from the local news states Stockton Police reported they had received a request from the DOE for a single patrol car to serve the warrant.
I'm not looking to justify this raid. I'm wondering who decided to send a SWAT team instead of an officer in a patrol car to serve the warrant. Parts of this story don't add up and I would like someone to connect the dots and report just who did what in a situation which appears to be a major cluster****.
I thought that wage garnishment and hurting credit scores are the standard recourse for collecting on defaulted student loans. I don't see how a raid would even force her to pay the loan...unless they thought she had the cash?
ETA:Nevermind, just read this is not about defaulting on the loan, it is about a criminal investigation.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/08/department-education-raid-default-student-loans_n_873272.html
I thought that wage garnishment and hurting credit scores are the standard recourse for collecting on defaulted student loans. I don't see how a raid would even force her to pay the loan...unless they thought she had the cash?
ETA:Nevermind, just read this is not about defaulting on the loan, it is about a criminal investigation.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/08/department-education-raid-default-student-loans_n_873272.html
It was still ordered by the DoE and had to do with student loans. Totally unnecessary as far as I can see for the govt to abuse LE so.
montanadave
06-08-11, 16:06
So what personnel comprised the SWAT team that knocked down this dude's door?
Stockton Police say they were federal agents, not local law enforcement.
Which federal agency? If the Department of Education's Office of the Inspector General has its own SWAT teams around the country armed and ready to go kicking in doors I'm officially spooked.
What conceivable criminal activities could the Department of Education be investigating that requires SWAT teams? If somebody committing fraud, embezzlement, etc. (crimes which might fall under the purview of the OIG at the DoE) is that dangerous, wouldn't the case be better handled by a "real" law enforcement agency?
...I wouldn't be surprised in the least if someone took vigilante justice out on the people that executed this warrant.
I understand your passion. I don't agree with how it went down either. But, statements like this are a little over the top - IMHO.
This is terrifying. The gov't is flirting with bringing back debtor's prison at this point.
Funny you should mention that. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704396504576204553811636610.html
Moose-Knuckle
06-08-11, 17:54
They already have. Seriously.
"Project Garden Plot (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=project+garden+plot)."
Don't forget about Cable Splicer and the Council of Governors.
Remember the FEMA camps that we have been hearing rumors about since the 90's? I always joke that one day "they" will round me up a send me off to a "re-education camp" for my views.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/president-obama-signs-executive-order-establishing-council-governors
http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/2010executive_order.pdf
The board has been set and the pieces are in motion. . .
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0611/56530.html
The Education Department is confirming that its inspector general authorized a raid on a California home on Tuesday, but says the officers were conducting a criminal probe — not pursuing a woman because she could not pay her student loans, as has been reported...
“While it was reported in local media that the search was related to a defaulted student loan, that is incorrect. This is related to a criminal investigation,” he said. “The Inspector General’s Office does not execute search warrants for late loan payments.”
Don Robison
06-08-11, 18:17
Imagine that; another jump to conclusions without any real facts just to get the story first.
I have no idea why they were raiding the house looking for this lady, but it doesn't look like it was because she defaulted on a loan.
http://www.news10.net/news/article/141108/2/Questions-surround-feds-raid-of-Stockton-home
U.S. Department of Education spokesman Justin Hamilton confirmed for News10 Wednesday morning federal agents with the Office of the Inspector General (OIG), not local S.W.A.T., served the search warrant. Hamilton would not say specifically why the raid took place except that it was part of an ongoing criminal investigation.
Hamilton said the search was not related to student loans in default as reported in the local media.
OIG is a semi-independent branch of the education department that executes warrants for criminal offenses such as student aid fraud, embezzlement of federal aid and bribery, according to Hamilton. The agency serves 30 to 35 search warrants a year.
Since when does the DOE conduct criminal investigations?
Since when does the DOE conduct criminal investigations?
Check this out. http://voices.washingtonpost.com/answer-sheet/education-secretary-duncan/ed-department-buying-27-shotgu.html
Heartland Hawk
06-08-11, 19:24
Check this out. http://voices.washingtonpost.com/answer-sheet/education-secretary-duncan/ed-department-buying-27-shotgu.html
O.K. That makes me nervous.
Moose-Knuckle
06-08-11, 19:29
Since when does the DOE conduct criminal investigations?
Well the Department Of Energy does. :p
The last people you want on your ass is a N.E.S.T. :eek:
Check this out. http://voices.washingtonpost.com/answer-sheet/education-secretary-duncan/ed-department-buying-27-shotgu.html
I think Sean Connery said it best, "Do you carry a badge? Then, carry a gun."
Littlelebowski
06-09-11, 04:53
I think Sean Connery said it best, "Do you carry a badge? Then, carry a gun."
Texas agrees with you, lane. (http://www.npr.org/tablet/#story/?storyId=113805196)
Check this out. http://voices.washingtonpost.com/answer-sheet/education-secretary-duncan/ed-department-buying-27-shotgu.html
Criminals who defraud the educational system could be just as dangerous as the ones robbing a liqour store. Many officers have been injured or killed by fraud suspects using fake checks and what not. Any time you are going to arrest someone you run the chance of them fighting, even people with absolutely no history.
Littlelebowski
06-09-11, 10:36
Criminals who defraud the educational system could be just as dangerous as the ones robbing a liqour store. Many officers have been injured or killed by fraud suspects using fake checks and what not. Any time you are going to arrest someone you run the chance of them fighting, even people with absolutely no history.
I wonder how cops arrested people in the past by themselves or only with a partner with danger lurking at every corner....
I wonder how cops arrested people in the past by themselves or only with a partner with danger lurking at every corner....
Im not saying that this raid was good or anything like that. Im just commenting on the fact that people are worried because a law enforcement agency is buying shotguns.
While I would think most of their work would be routine paper stuff they still could be trying to arrest dangerous people every so often.
Littlelebowski
06-09-11, 10:42
Our society is obsessed with liability and "what ifs." It's ****ing disgusting.
montanadave
06-09-11, 11:11
Im not saying that this raid was good or anything like that. Im just commenting on the fact that people are worried because a law enforcement agency is buying shotguns.
While I would think most of their work would be routine paper stuff they still could be trying to arrest dangerous people every so often.
My problem isn't with protecting officer and public safety by implementation of appropriate force when confronting violent offenders.
My problem is the Department of Education having a ****ing SWAT team.
If the DoE's Office of the Inspector General runs across someone in the course of their investigative work that looks a serious bad guy/gal, call in the cavalry and let the big boys handle.
Since when does every government agency at local, state, and federal level require their own departmental police force? Beyond the tin hat paranoia of Big Brother monitoring every breath you take and prepared to send in the black helicopters for anything from terrorist threats to overdue library books (which is beginning to look a little less "tin hattier" every time I read one of these stories), consider the wasted resources, duplication of services, and potential for confusion and potentially tragic confrontations between the public and a multitude of armed agencies that don't know who's who and who has jurisdiction.
I support my local police and sheriff's department. My dealings with them over the years have been overwhelmingly positive and they have always comported themselves in a professional manner. But I want to know who I'm dealing with when a see a badge and a gun coming up the front steps.
Littlelebowski
06-09-11, 11:41
Im not saying that this raid was good or anything like that. Im just commenting on the fact that people are worried because a law enforcement agency is buying shotguns.
While I would think most of their work would be routine paper stuff they still could be trying to arrest dangerous people every so often.
I don't consider the DOE an "law enforcement agency."
Littlelebowski
06-09-11, 12:01
The warrant (http://www.news10.net/news/pdf/Ed-dept-Wright-warrant-060711.pdf)
Despite what the DOE said about "white collar crime," it looks like the raid really was all about student loans.
Littlelebowski
06-09-11, 12:04
Since when does every government agency at local, state, and federal level require their own departmental police force?
Read this (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=113805196)
Don Robison
06-09-11, 12:44
The warrant (http://www.news10.net/news/pdf/Ed-dept-Wright-warrant-060711.pdf)
Despite what the DOE said about "white collar crime," it looks like the raid really was all about student loans.
I believe they said it wasn't about default. From what they were looking for it looks more like fraud.
QuietShootr
06-09-11, 12:47
I believe they said it wasn't about default. From what they were looking for it looks more like fraud.
Still bullshit. This level of force is only appropriate for an imminent danger scenario, not "Oh, we need to justify our budget by sticking M4s into everyone's face over some hinky student loans." If you support that, welcome to my ignore list.
QuietShootr
06-09-11, 12:50
Criminals who defraud the educational system could be just as dangerous as the ones robbing a liqour store. Many officers have been injured or killed by fraud suspects using fake checks and what not. Any time you are going to arrest someone you run the chance of them fighting, even people with absolutely no history.
There is absolutely no way I can answer this appropriately without getting banned. So, just imagine what I might have said, and enjoy it.
Your faith in our public gov't is encouraging but I do not share it.
I agree and HOPE you and I are wrong. But I recognize the country I grew up in less and less every day.
Criminals who defraud the educational system could be just as dangerous as the ones robbing a liqour store. Many officers have been injured or killed by fraud suspects using fake checks and what not. Any time you are going to arrest someone you run the chance of them fighting, even people with absolutely no history.
Fact: The only person to commit a crime with a registered machine gun since the '86 ban was a police officer. :rolleyes:
Just make sure you keep a copy of your deferment current...........:jester:
I agree and HOPE you and I are wrong. But I recognize the country I grew up in less and less every day.
Right now I basically feel like I was raised to function in a society that no longer exists. It seems like nearly everyone wants to bad mouth this country, sing the praises of "how the rest of the world does it", and have the government enforce their idiotic opinions by gunpoint.
Fact: The only person to commit a crime with a registered machine gun since the '86 ban was a police officer. :rolleyes:
And what exactly does that have to do with a possible excessive use of force raid against a fraud suspect?
Like I said before, Im not defending this raid. What I am saying is that any criminal can be dangerous. I know an officer that was shot and killed by a guy cashing a fake check. Any time you go to arrest someone, no matter their history, they can (not saying they will) become violent.
Do I think its a little weird that the Dept of Edu has a police dept, yes I do. But that doesnt make me think that their officers shouldnt be able to have a shotgun.
From the warrant it appears these people were printing out fake papers to get money from the government, not that she didnt pay her student loans.
variablebinary
06-09-11, 18:14
The warrant (http://www.news10.net/news/pdf/Ed-dept-Wright-warrant-060711.pdf)
Despite what the DOE said about "white collar crime," it looks like the raid really was all about student loans.
Before anyone comments they should read the warrant.
A SWAT team was sent over a student loan. That about sums it up.
Why did this require a SWAT team again? I'd really like to know the answer. Wouldn't it have been better to cut off aide, seize tax returns and savings, and garnish wages?
What exactly was gained here? Why not spend the money on all the medicaid cheats if you want to make an example of someone.
George Orwell really did write the most important book since the Bible.
And what exactly does that have to do with a possible excessive use of force raid against a fraud suspect?
Like I said before, Im not defending this raid. What I am saying is that any criminal can be dangerous. I know an officer that was shot and killed by a guy cashing a fake check. Any time you go to arrest someone, no matter their history, they can (not saying they will) become violent.
Do I think its a little weird that the Dept of Edu has a police dept, yes I do. But that doesnt make me think that their officers shouldnt be able to have a shotgun.
From the warrant it appears these people were printing out fake papers to get money from the government, not that she didnt pay her student loans.
The point is that you're trying to make every criminal seem as if they need to be responded to with militant-like force, all the while ignoring that nothing about her case deemed military-grade firepower as necessary.
Going by your logic, police officers are the only class of individuals who shouldn't be allowed full-auto weapons, as a police officer is the only person to commit a crime since the ban with a registered machine gun. You just made a blanket statement about criminals based on opinion, so I made one about police based on fact.
And I can think of (and list) 100 other examples.
Instead of taking the situation and responding based on the probable response of the criminal, you're advocating that any response is indeed justified because they could be "dangerous." That's the definition of a nanny state and goes against everything this country was founded on. In fact, unjustified home-invasions and detentions by English troops of the day was listed as one of the many causes of the Revolutionary war.
variablebinary
06-09-11, 18:26
And what exactly does that have to do with a possible excessive use of force raid against a fraud suspect?
Like I said before, Im not defending this raid. What I am saying is that any criminal can be dangerous. I know an officer that was shot and killed by a guy cashing a fake check. Any time you go to arrest someone, no matter their history, they can (not saying they will) become violent.
Do I think its a little weird that the Dept of Edu has a police dept, yes I do. But that doesnt make me think that their officers shouldnt be able to have a shotgun.
From the warrant it appears these people were printing out fake papers to get money from the government, not that she didnt pay her student loans.
Should SWAT teams be used for Jaywalking, littering and Johns getting a happy ending in a Chinese massage parlor. All those people are technically criminals, so there is risk.
Why have a beat cop at all then? Just send a SWAT team for everything.
Why not stop there. Just use the National Guard. Nah, not enough...
Let the Marines do a landing. You never know right?
Context: The biggest white collar criminal in American history, Bernie Madoff, didn't get a SWAT team at his door. And I can assure you he stole far more, and violated a billion more federal regulations than this person.
There needs to be some common sense here. Or at the very least, how about sanity?
Guys again, Im not defending the raid. If you see what I originally quoted it was about their agency buying shotguns. The same gun that you will find in many beat cop cars.
Some guys were saying that these officers getting shotguns was scary and insinuated that they shouldnt have them because there is no need.
All I was saying that I believe there is no problem with these officers have a pump action shotgun because I believe every officer should have access to a long gun. I never advocated raiding houses with a SWAT team.
NCPatrolAR
06-09-11, 19:23
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=69588
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