View Full Version : G26 vs Walther PPS?
Nephrology
06-10-11, 18:16
Got a bonus at work and looking to spend some of it on a gun. I really want something to make carrying a little easier for the summer, so I have narrowed it down to the 2 pistols in the title (unless anybody here really wants to try to make a case for the J frame....)
Some preliminary thoughts I've had...
G26
Pros: Am already a Glock armorer, own multiple spare parts for Glock 9mms, own 2 other Glock 9mms (19/17), cheaper than the walther, would have magazine commonality, can use same IWB holsters, would permit me to shoot subcompact in GSSF matches...
Cons: Thick, not more concealable than G19 according to some.
PPS
Pros: Thin, single stack 9mm
cons: Expensive mags, more expensive pistol than G26, nonstandard mag release, would need to drop more $ on parts, new holster, new sights...
any thoughts?
It depends on where you are going to carry it, and how you are going to be dressed. The G26 doesn't hide away as well in an ankle holster, or if you are wearing a nice tucked in shirt. Personally I'm either carrying a compact sized pistol(G19/Sig P228/HK P2000) for the majority of my carry, and then I have a pocket sized gun for ankle carry or dress-up carry where the gun needs to be tiny. Not to mention, a single stack will weigh less(less ammo).
In my opinion, the G26 doesn't give you that much concealability over the G19, so I'd go with the PPS regardless of how it effects your logistics.
Con: If you buy the PPS, your Glocks -will- be jealous. ;)
I think the Glock is simply more utilitarian where the PPS was designed to fit a specific need and does it well. If the money is going to bother you, then don't it.
If you didn't have Glocks I would say no doubt get the PPS because I'm sure you would like it for the intended use.
Con: If you buy the PPS, your Glocks -will- be jealous. ;)
I think the Glock is simply more utilitarian where the PPS was designed to fit a specific need and does it well. If the money is going to bother you, then don't it.
If you didn't have Glocks I would say no doubt get the PPS because I'm sure you would like it for the intended use.
Very well put and I could not agree more. Personally I am looking to acquire a PPS.
I'm a Glock man through and through, but remember, these are tools and I have added a PPS to my toolbox for certain times. And yes I have a 26 but 99% of time, my 19 is it.
Both quality pistols. I shot a borrowed PPS once. Meh. G26 would be and is my pick for magazine and holster commonality with larger primaries, easier to pocket/still fits into places a G19 won't. And capacity.
I have a G19 and PPS available to me, and I go with the G19 for familiarity and capacity.
That said, the PPS is undoubtedly easier to conceal.
How much experience do you have with either pistol? If you're deeply invested into Glocks, then are you willing to learn a new manual of arms? I am going through this with my jframe. Learning a new manual of arms could also mean a deterioration of your existing skills with your old weapon. I've been practicing with my jframe lately and I know that I've deteriorated a bit with my G19. Now the PPS vs a Glock is not as extreme as what I'm doing, but you should still be willing to prepare for that learning curve all over again.
I've also been contemplating the PPS for times when my G19 isn't practical. My concern so far has been what blackboar mentioned: the different manual of arms, particularly the diffferent mag release. In a life threatening encounter, will your familiarity and long term practice with Glocks make the PPS clumsy and unworkable? One of my old Captains said "You practice and drill so that you're hands remember when your mind forgets." I'm kinda leery of two weapons which are close enough to confuse me under stress, but not radically different enough to trip a whole different set of muscle memories. I'd be curious to know how much weight some of the forum's veteran trainers or lethal force encouter experts give to this aspect of making your choice.
ChicagoTex
06-10-11, 23:25
My EDC used to be a G26 until I got my PPS.
My G26 was great, but it was too thick for discreet pocket carry, my PPS isn't, which is pretty much the only reason I switched.
I have noticed my PPS is a bit more accurate than my G26 was, but both are more than sufficiently accurate for defensive purposes and both are more accurate than I am without shooting from a rest.
Yes, I believe there is video tape somewhere of a robbery. Might have been a jewelry store or similar. I can't remember the whole story, it's been maybe 10+ years since I heard it.
But the good guy had been trained on one platform and either kept trying to release a safety that wasn't there or couldn't get the safety off that was there. I seem to recall that little bit of time made a difference and I can't recall the outcome but I don't think it was good.
Personally though, I think if you trained enough you would get second nature with either. Musicians do it all the time playing various instruments ( not that they are in fear of death at the time though ).
I get mixed up shooting a Model 52 and 1911. The safety is opposite.
I personally think the mag release would become second nature to you though. It just seems like a fast learned logical thing.
Mike Miller
06-11-11, 01:06
http://www.ignatius-piazza-front-sight.com/2011/04/04/front-sights-monday-blog-why-you-carry-a-loaded-gun/
This may be what you're talking about, the store owner did not have a chambered round, and he ended up getting shot while attempting to get the weapon ready. Sorry if this is too off-topic.
I have both. I carry the G26 when I can conceal it and the PPS when I can't conceal the G26. Also, long car trips I'll carry the PPS it's a little more comfortable against my particular car seat.
I'd put the G26 above the PPS in terms of reliability. I've
had a few failure to extracts with the PPS and none in the G26.
Nephrology
06-11-11, 09:52
The big argument for the G26 is how much less it would cost me in total - not just the gun but the mags/parts/holsters/etc due to its compatability with my existing glocks. not to mention the complication that the PPS would introduce with its entirely new mag release...
that being said, would the slimness of the pps be worth the extra $$/training?
The big argument for the G26 is how much less it would cost me in total - not just the gun but the mags/parts/holsters/etc due to its compatability with my existing glocks. not to mention the complication that the PPS would introduce with its entirely new mag release...
that being said, would the slimness of the pps be worth the extra $$/training?
The real question is......would the G26 be worth the size reduction over a G19. I don't think so.
Have you considered a Kahr PM9? Mine has been reliable after the 200 round break in period. The PM9 has the same style magazine release as the Glock.
http://www.kahr.com/Pistols/Kahr-PM9.asp
Nephrology
06-11-11, 15:37
Have you considered a Kahr PM9? Mine has been reliable after the 200 round break in period. The PM9 has the same style magazine release as the Glock.
http://www.kahr.com/Pistols/Kahr-PM9.asp
are those gtg? i have heard not great things about their QC.
ChicagoTex
06-11-11, 15:50
are those gtg? i have heard not great things about their QC.
PM9s are a crapshoot, it seems that they're about 75% good, 25% problematic, although I believe Kahr is fairly good about making it right.
That said, my first carry gun was a Kahr P40 and while it was light, easy to carry, very reliable, and very accurate, it had a fatal flaw that carries over to the PM9 (and indeed all of the Polymer Kahr models): the mag release. You see, on original steel Kahrs, the grip panels flare out (like pretty much any other gun with grip panels) altering the profile of the grip and generally being the first point of contact when pressed horizontally, but on the polymer models the profile for the sides of the grip are totally flat, leaving the magazine release button protruding A LOT. What would happen for me, then, is I'd sit down or turn, or bend over a certain way and my holster (I carried IWB) would press against the magazine release button and pop the mag loose - usually not enough to flat-out eject it, just enough so that if I had to pull it it would either malfunction or the mag would come flying out on the draw. I got in the habit of checking to make sure my mag was actually seated constantly but would catch it unseated 3 or 4 times a week.
For what it's worth, I did look at the travel on the mag release button to determine if I could shave down the button without compromising function, and I determined that the amount of shaveable space was too little to be useful.
Didn't have use for a single-shot carry gun, so I sold it.
I don't know if this would happen with pocket carry (which I assume is one of, if not your only, intended carry methods with this gun), but I experienced it several dozen times in IWB carry, and for that reason I'm never buying another Polymer Kahr.
Nephrology
06-11-11, 16:26
PM9s are a crapshoot, it seems that they're about 75% good, 25% problematic, although I believe Kahr is fairly good about making it right.
That said, my first carry gun was a Kahr P40 and while it was light, easy to carry, very reliable, and very accurate, it had a fatal flaw that carries over to the PM9 (and indeed all of the Polymer Kahr models): the mag release. You see, on original steel Kahrs, the grip panels flare out (like pretty much any other gun with grip panels) altering the profile of the grip and generally being the first point of contact when pressed horizontally, but on the polymer models the profile for the sides of the grip are totally flat, leaving the magazine release button protruding A LOT. What would happen for me, then, is I'd sit down or turn, or bend over a certain way and my holster (I carried IWB) would press against the magazine release button and pop the mag loose - usually not enough to flat-out eject it, just enough so that if I had to pull it it would either malfunction or the mag would come flying out on the draw. I got in the habit of checking to make sure my mag was actually seated constantly but would catch it unseated 3 or 4 times a week.
For what it's worth, I did look at the travel on the mag release button to determine if I could shave down the button without compromising function, and I determined that the amount of shaveable space was too little to be useful.
Didn't have use for a single-shot carry gun, so I sold it.
I don't know if this would happen with pocket carry (which I assume is one of, if not your only, intended carry methods with this gun), but I experienced it several dozen times in IWB carry, and for that reason I'm never buying another Polymer Kahr.
Probably would not be my only method of carry but it would be a bonus if that were an option, yes....
Pistol Shooter
06-11-11, 16:35
I've had a 9mm PPS for about 18 months. It's very accurate and has 1,700 rds. of assorted fmj/jhp ammo through it with zero malfunctions.
Very fine pistol IMO and worth every penny.
are those gtg? i have heard not great things about their QC.
I pocket carry mine (as a BUG) while on duty. After the initial break in period it's been GTG. However, as mentioned by a previous poster the mag catch is prone to accidental release. It seems that the gun would benefit from a more stout magazine catch spring. I don't know if Kahr or anyone else makes such a spring. Seems it would be easy to make since it's a straight wire similar to that of a Glock magazine catch spring.
ChicagoTex
06-11-11, 18:28
It seems that the gun would benefit from a more stout magazine catch spring. I don't know if Kahr or anyone else makes such a spring.
That's something I forgot to mention aswell, not only does the button stick out, but it's a noticeably lower-resistance spring than most other handguns have.
are those gtg? i have heard not great things about their QC.
I have a Kahr CM9 which has been perfect through 500 rounds. It is easy to conceal and it is very accurate. Check out Kahrtalk.com if you are interested in the PM9 or CM9.
If spending the money is not an issue, I would get the Walther. The 26 really isn't any easier to conceal than your 19.
Magic_Salad0892
06-12-11, 20:06
The funny thing is that you're asking to compare pistols, to which one you should buy.
Because of parts commonality, to training, to cost ratio, here's my answer:
Don't buy either of them.
Why?
Glock 26: This pistol will not conceal any better than your Glock 19. Cool. It has magazine, holster, and parts commonality. Parts you won't need to buy again. Operative word: Again. You already have magazines and parts, so if you don't buy this pistol, you still have spares for a pistol you already have, and don't need to worry about parts replacement, and maintenance on yet another gun.
Walther:
Pros: Conceal-ability. The G26 does pretty much everything else better. Though I can't speak to accuracy.
Cons:
Cost, magazines, training, holsters, sights, parts commonality.
Why don't you just spend that money on a sweet pair of sights? Or better yet, ammunition? Everybody could stand to have a few hundred more rounds of their carry ammo lying around. Or... even better... a suppressor for your Glock 19 if you want something awesome. Threaded barrel too though. It'll be more expensive, but much more awesome. Another gun isn't really needed here.
Roll with that you have, buy ammo.
Buy the 26: You regret it, start carrying the 19 again because it's better.
Buy the PPS: You end up carrying a pistol this summer that you're not trained with, and isn't as suitable to defend yourself with as a gun you're already familiar with, and fast with.
Sorry if that isn't an answer you wanted to hear.
I bought the PPS for concealability, my wife bought one for concealability and because the fat stubby grip of the G26 was unusable for her. Neither of us has had any regrets. She's shot two pistol courses without a single malfunction.
LanceOregon
06-13-11, 01:31
Man, there is just no comparison between these two pistols, as the G26 is so much wider.
Here is a Glock 26 on the left, next to a Walther PPS on the right:
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/lanceJOregon/guns/G26_PPSa.jpg
I too believe there's no comparison having owned and shot both quite a bit... frankly, you could go to war with a G26, the PPS not so much.
I actually have had 2 different PPS' thinking that maybe my first specimen was a lemon and noe wanting to totally give up on the extra 1/4" of thin-ness, but both were just less than solid and had their issues... compared to a boring, bang-every-time 3rd Gen G26, the choice became pretty clear.
The big thing for me is/was that since the PPS' are far more moody, the fact that they're also 10x as hard to detail-strip (and get back together) in order to figure out what's going on with them and how they work just wore on me, besides, even when I'd think I had an idea of what might need to be fiddled with to fix their function, trying to convince S&W CS to send me small parts was met with a "no, you'll have to send it in", while any monkey can see how a Glock works and can take down a Glock in under a minute, and parts practically grow on trees.
With the PPS' tgere was always something that would pop up, whether it was FTF's, FTE's, a suddenly intermitent gritty trigger, or just the retarded mag release messing me up (which I've come to detest even on H&K's too), it had the thin-ness going for it so I gave it a solid try...
In the end I found the 1/4" thicker gun was no big deal and a better CCW holster erased any real advantage the thinner PPS had comfort-wise, especially carried AIWB which has become my preference.
Plus, I can use and train with the G26 much more easily, it holds enough to see some use in IDPA now and again and can serve as a back-up or spare parts mule to my G17 (like I'll ever need it) on trips to high round count classes.
Though these days I'm solidly a convert to tge CZ Shadow platform for games and even classes, CZ or really nobody else makes a finer pistol for EDC/CCW IMHO.
I should add, I've owned a few G19's over the years and really does think tge 26 is easier to conceal, even with the pinky extentions it still prints less and the 1/2" shorter barrel is welcome on extended drives worn AIWB, IMO if you can hide a 19 you can hide a 17 with it's larger grip, capacity, and sight-radius too so both of those have me covered, if I could only have one to do-it-all a G19 would get the nod though.
Since you have a G19, I would go with the PPS (especially with all the issues coming up with late modeled GEN 3 and GEN 4 Glock).
The PPS is more accurate than man guns out there and is your typical German built pistol (tight and complex). So if you are looking for something simple to mess with, don't buy one.
I carry a PPS everyday (in a RCS holster) and love it. Can hide it very well, shoot it well and with a little polishing work, can really get the trigger nice.
C4
LanceOregon
06-15-11, 22:59
The PPS is way more sexy than a G26 too:
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/lanceJOregon/guns/_DSC6800c.jpg
Web Architect
06-15-11, 23:18
Hmmm... This is getting tempting.
Grant, what sights are you running on your PPS? Thanks!
dirksterg30
06-16-11, 08:34
PM9s are a crapshoot, it seems that they're about 75% good, 25% problematic, although I believe Kahr is fairly good about making it right.
That said, my first carry gun was a Kahr P40 and while it was light, easy to carry, very reliable, and very accurate, it had a fatal flaw that carries over to the PM9 (and indeed all of the Polymer Kahr models): the mag release. You see, on original steel Kahrs, the grip panels flare out (like pretty much any other gun with grip panels) altering the profile of the grip and generally being the first point of contact when pressed horizontally, but on the polymer models the profile for the sides of the grip are totally flat, leaving the magazine release button protruding A LOT. What would happen for me, then, is I'd sit down or turn, or bend over a certain way and my holster (I carried IWB) would press against the magazine release button and pop the mag loose - usually not enough to flat-out eject it, just enough so that if I had to pull it it would either malfunction or the mag would come flying out on the draw. I got in the habit of checking to make sure my mag was actually seated constantly but would catch it unseated 3 or 4 times a week.
For what it's worth, I did look at the travel on the mag release button to determine if I could shave down the button without compromising function, and I determined that the amount of shaveable space was too little to be useful.
Didn't have use for a single-shot carry gun, so I sold it.
I don't know if this would happen with pocket carry (which I assume is one of, if not your only, intended carry methods with this gun), but I experienced it several dozen times in IWB carry, and for that reason I'm never buying another Polymer Kahr.
Never heard of that happening with a PM9; did your PM9 have the polymer mag release? Were you using a leather holster?
I carry my PM9 IWB in a kydex holster or in my pocket in a Desantis Nemesis, and have never had this happen. I did change the mag catch out for the steel version early on, though.
I did this the other day standing at 7.5 yards no rest. I know I'm not great shot. There are 15 shots and I think you can see if someone had a more steady hold than me that you can pretty well stack up the holes.
https://www.m4carbine.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=8767&stc=1&d=1308232503
That brings me to a question. On this particular target my front sight covers the gray circle, so how exactly are you supposed to know when you are holding too high? Once the sight covers it then you can keep going to high and not know it. Obviously I tend to drop it down to see where I'm at and then bring it back up. so it seems like I constantly need to keep moving to re-assure myself rather than hold on one spot.
I seem to do ok horizontally but I get way to much vertical spread. I'm more used to a 6 O'clock hold and I don't think that can be done with this gun. My front sight is marked 4 and my rear sight is marked 2 factory white dots.
I own both. The PPS is much easier to conceal in a pocket and works flawlessly. The g26 is a great gun but a little too wide for front pocket carry.
I am puzzled by comments above stating that the G26 is no easier to conceal than a G19. I am sitting in my office wearing summer business casual attire - tucked in polo shirt and dress slacks - with a G26 comfortably concealed in my pocket, in a DeSantis Superfly holster. Try that with a G19.
If the pants and pocket holster are selected correctly, the G26 can easily be concealed in a pocket, as I do daily.
I have no experience shooting the PPS, but from comparing one side by side with a G26, I simply don't see the slight difference in size being worth giving up magazine capacity.
dirksterg30
06-16-11, 15:48
I am puzzled by comments above stating that the G26 is no easier to conceal than a G19. I am sitting in my office wearing summer business casual attire - tucked in polo shirt and dress slacks - with a G26 comfortably concealed in my pocket, in a DeSantis Superfly holster. Try that with a G19.
If the pants and pocket holster are selected correctly, the G26 can easily be concealed in a pocket, as I do daily.
I have no experience shooting the PPS, but from comparing one side by side with a G26, I simply don't see the slight difference in size being worth giving up magazine capacity.
No offense, but if you pocket carry a G26 with no printing, you must have some big-ass pockets!
I don't think I've ever pocket carried anything that didn't print.
I agree. Both my J frame & PPS print to a degree. I found that the j frame print is slightly worse due to the width of cylinder, but because of its irregular shape, it doesn’t scream ‘gun’ has loud as the PPS with its distinctive L-shape. However, with the right holster & pants, neither is a problem.
G26, even with big pants pockets, looked like I had a big bulge in the wrong place. When I decided that the G26 would have to go in an IWB holster on my waist, I decided that a G19 would conceal just as well there.
ChicagoTex
06-16-11, 22:03
Never heard of that happening with a PM9; did your PM9 have the polymer mag release? Were you using a leather holster?
I carry my PM9 IWB in a kydex holster or in my pocket in a Desantis Nemesis, and have never had this happen. I did change the mag catch out for the steel version early on, though.
It was a Kahr P40 (not PM9), it had the polymer mag release, and I was using a Crossbreed Supertuck.
What do you wear during the summer and what is your preferred method of carry?
I'm going to be the dope who recommends a j-frame. Personally, I own a G19, G26, Kahr PM9 (similar in size to a PPS), and a 642 and I find that I carry the 642 the most often. Yes it has drawbacks vs. the other options but it's so easy to drop in the pocket and it conceals well.
I like the G26 but find it just isn't that much easier to carry than the G19.
Depends on how you dress and your lifestyle I guess. PPS would be a good choice too.
Nephrology
06-17-11, 13:34
The funny thing is that you're asking to compare pistols, to which one you should buy.
Because of parts commonality, to training, to cost ratio, here's my answer:
Don't buy either of them.
Why?
Glock 26: This pistol will not conceal any better than your Glock 19. Cool. It has magazine, holster, and parts commonality. Parts you won't need to buy again. Operative word: Again. You already have magazines and parts, so if you don't buy this pistol, you still have spares for a pistol you already have, and don't need to worry about parts replacement, and maintenance on yet another gun.
Walther:
Pros: Conceal-ability. The G26 does pretty much everything else better. Though I can't speak to accuracy.
Cons:
Cost, magazines, training, holsters, sights, parts commonality.
Why don't you just spend that money on a sweet pair of sights? Or better yet, ammunition? Everybody could stand to have a few hundred more rounds of their carry ammo lying around. Or... even better... a suppressor for your Glock 19 if you want something awesome. Threaded barrel too though. It'll be more expensive, but much more awesome. Another gun isn't really needed here.
Roll with that you have, buy ammo.
Buy the 26: You regret it, start carrying the 19 again because it's better.
Buy the PPS: You end up carrying a pistol this summer that you're not trained with, and isn't as suitable to defend yourself with as a gun you're already familiar with, and fast with.
Sorry if that isn't an answer you wanted to hear.
No, that's perfectly reasonable. I am still very much undecided if I can even get the gun I want for the money I want to spend on it and be happy. I might be better off with just more 9mm, or maybe another TLR-1 or something. Thanks for the response, it was well put.
edit: I will add, however, that one of the advantages of the 26 is that it is so much like my 19 it would be a good backup were it to be seized for evidence or to go belly up or whatnot. I would have overlapping redundancy with a 17, 19, and 26 but could use each to play to its strengths depending on what I want to do with it that day.
DeathMetal
06-17-11, 13:52
The PPS is nice but I would stick with the Glock 19. If you need a single stack as a BUG get a PM9.
No offense, but if you pocket carry a G26 with no printing, you must have some big-ass pockets!
No offense taken, and that is part of the trick. I buy my pants a bit baggy. I am not a big guy (5' 8"), but I find that if I buy pants with enough room to comfortably carry IWB, I have also bought pants which will be good for pocket carry.
ANY gun other than a North American Arms mini-revolver with create some bulge in the pocket. The trick is to make the bulge look like anything other than a gun - a wallet, a day planner etc. A rectangular shape could be a lot of different things.
I am self-employed, so I have a bit more freedom with what to carry, although I don't want to put off any prospective clients. I wouldn't necessarily risk a G26 in a non-permissive environment, but I would also look for something smaller than a PPS.
LanceOregon
06-17-11, 23:20
I buy my pants a bit baggy. I am not a big guy (5' 8"), but I find that if I buy pants with enough room to comfortably carry IWB, I have also bought pants which will be good for pocket carry.
I would not agree with that entirely. Not all pants have equal sized pockets. But with a little effort shopping, it is not difficult at all to find pants that do have roomy pockets.
I would also look for something smaller than a PPS.
The downside to doing that is that it often also means downsizing to the .380 caliber.
.
Magic_Salad0892
06-18-11, 01:20
No, that's perfectly reasonable. I am still very much undecided if I can even get the gun I want for the money I want to spend on it and be happy. I might be better off with just more 9mm, or maybe another TLR-1 or something. Thanks for the response, it was well put.
edit: I will add, however, that one of the advantages of the 26 is that it is so much like my 19 it would be a good backup were it to be seized for evidence or to go belly up or whatnot. I would have overlapping redundancy with a 17, 19, and 26 but could use each to play to its strengths depending on what I want to do with it that day.
If you have an extra 19, then you'd have even more familiarity.
IMHO, the 17 and the 19 don't do anything different enough to pick the 17 either.
G19 covers all bases, IMO, and I've carried a G17 for a while, and am back to a G19.
LanceOregon
06-18-11, 11:51
Hmmm... This is getting tempting.
Grant, what sights are you running on your PPS? Thanks!
Architect:
A lot of PPS owners have gone with the Meprolight Tritium Night Signts on their pistols. They cost $76, from Optics Planet.com:
http://www.opticsplanet.net/meprolight-night-sights-for-walther-pistols.html
These sights really show up well in the dark.
.
ubiquitous1
06-18-11, 20:37
No weapon is a guaranteed "automatic" when it comes to safe , confident & quick operation. They are all different to some degree & require a serious effort in time and ammo to become proficient.
I own a PPS in 40, and really enjoy it. It is surprisingly slim, and therefore least noticeable IWB of all my handguns. The accuracy is more than acceptable from this skinny wonder. 500 rounds without one failure.
My first handgun was (& still is) a Glock 17, 17 years and going. I still love the Glock platform even though I only own the 17.
I really enjoy both handguns. I would invest in the PPS, shoot it and gear up to carry it when you reach your pre-determined level of proficiency required. I am not disappointed in my decision. Good Luck with your decision.
Web Architect
06-18-11, 20:54
LanceOregon - thanks! How do these compare to the 3 Dot Trijicon NS? I have these on another platform. Also, it seems many here prefer the Tritium up front with the rear sights blacked out. Thoughts?
cochraneap
06-18-11, 21:01
PPS for summer carry. or PM9 or LC9. G26 is a beast.
Personally I would go with the G26. Glock makes a good reliable pistol that is tough to beat. I actually traded a G27 a while back in on a 9mm PPS because I figured it would be thinner and easier to conceal. But now I could kick myself in the derriere for getting rid of the Glock. The G27 was a little bit thicker than the PPS but not that much tougher to carry, even in the front pocket of Levi Strauss 505's.
Unfortunately my PPS, while great with hardball, was not always completey reliable with the different brands and bullet weights of 9mm hollow points that I tried in it. The worst ammo was the 9mm Winchester Ranger "T" series RA9T 147gr hollow point LEO ammo. That ammo worked like crap in the PPS with many failures to feed. The same RA9T works great in my G19 so I got rid of the PPS. I figure the designers at Wather probably set the Slim pistol up to function great with NATO hardball, but quality hollow points were likely not a prime consideration for them.:sad:
ChicagoTex
06-19-11, 09:18
I figure the designers at Wather probably set the Slim pistol up to function great with NATO hardball, but quality hollow points were likely not a prime consideration for them.
You figure wrong. No modern defensive handgun is designed with the expectation of running only FMJ ammunition. It's likely your specific PPS had some sort of issue.
Four questions:
1. How many rounds total did your PPS have through it when you tested it with your Ranger T ammo?
2. Did you lubricate your PPS, if so, what parts?
3. Do you recall what your serial number prefix was (and/or when you bought the gun)?
and 4. Did you contact Walther about the issues you were having?
You figure wrong.
Sorry to burst your bubble but my PPS was a dog and I got rid of it.
No excuses, it was a POS
I hope you have good luck with yours
I got a 40 cal PPS awhile ago. My only complaint is it is not fun to shoot, the trigger is narrow and hurts a bit during recoil, same with the back-strap to frame fit area, it is causes a bit of pain while firing.
Overall good CC piece, but not one to do a ton of firing with.
Sorry to burst your bubble but my PPS was a dog and I got rid of it.
No excuses, it was a POS
I hope you have good luck with yours
This was the important part of his post that you didn't include in your quote...
It's likely your specific PPS had some sort of issue.
Far more likely to be the case than your extrapolation of issues with a single sample to engineering considerations for the design itself.
I guess it just goes to show that everyone should find the gun that works for them.
I used to own an H&K compact .40 and never liked the trigger. It also felt like too much gun and too much snap in my hands. I eventually sold it.
Most recently I had a Glock 2? compact .40. Same thing, it simply was no fun to shoot and I was highly inaccurate with it.
Bought a PPS 9mm and I find it one of the most fun to shoot gusn I have had in a long time.
Read something on Larry Vickers site about night sight alignment and realized I was possibly mis-aligning my white dot sights as well. Shot this day before yesterday. Compared to target above you can see I have pulled things in a bit and I still think that anyone that is considered a good shot would probably just knock the red center out of that target. The low shots are me rocking forward which I'm still trying to cure.
https://www.m4carbine.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=8799&stc=1&d=1308506182
Far more likely to be the case than your extrapolation of issues with a single sample to engineering considerations for the design itself.
"It's likely your specific PPS had some sort of issue" Yes, I'm sure it did.
My single example was enough for me. Mine was a good gun with hardball but not JHP. We all need to live with the choices we make, and I now I would not chose a PPS as a carry piece. :dirol:
Like I said to the other poster; "I hope you have good luck with yours"
nobody knows
06-19-11, 13:47
I know this wasn't one of the pistols you had in mind,but the S&W M&P 9c is a great little gun. It holds 12rds "feels" slimmer then the g26(notice I said feels because I don't know for certain as I have sold my g26) it's cheaper then the pps, arguably more reliable,has plenty of parts availability,magazines are cheaper,and there's a wider variety of holsters/after market part's. Although the same is true for the g26. I still believe(IMHO) the m&p9c is a better gun.
My single example was enough for me. Mine was a good gun with hardball but not JHP. We all need to live with the choices we make, and I now I would not chose a PPS as a carry piece. :dirol:
Like I said to the other poster; "I hope you have good luck with yours"
Enough for you to get rid of, sure. Sorry it didn't work out for you. Enough to justify statements like this, sorry but no...you're certainly entitled to this opinion but basing statements like the below on a sample size of one is unfounded.
I figure the designers at Wather probably set the Slim pistol up to function great with NATO hardball, but quality hollow points were likely not a prime consideration for them.
I just bought an autofocus camera lens that will not autofocus properly with my camera. It would be a little ridiculous to say that since the lens that I received won't AF, that the designers probably set the lens up to only be used in manual focus mode.
Enough for you to get rid of, sure. Sorry it didn't work out for you. Enough to justify statements like this, sorry but no...you're certainly entitled to this opinion but basing statements like the below on a sample size of one is unfounded.
I just bought an autofocus camera lens that will not autofocus properly with my camera. It would be a little ridiculous to say that since the lens that I received won't AF, that the designers probably set the lens up to only be used in manual focus mode.
This exchange is going nowhere. My PPS had feeding problems with hollow points. I got rid of it. I'm certainly not going to buy another PPS (or a dozen) to expand my sample size to more than one.
And good luck with that camera of yours with the bad lens :jester:
This exchange is going nowhere. My PPS had feeding problems with hollow points. I got rid of it. I'm certainly not going to buy another PPS (or a dozen) to expand my sample size to more than one.
I'm not suggesting that you buy anything, just that your experience with one pistol is insufficient to lend support to your statements about the design of the pistol itself. I'm not really sure why that is so difficult for you to understand.
And good luck with that camera of yours with the bad lens :jester:
No luck needed, I'm able to realize that it is an acute issue and not representative of the product design as a whole. It's being sent to the manufacturer and being dealt with. It's not a life-or-death product, if it was I might have concerns about keeping that particular copy on hand when it has shown to be unreliable. I don't blame you at all for unloading your PPS and I likely would have done the same thing.
LanceOregon
06-19-11, 17:30
Sorry to burst your bubble but my PPS was a dog and I got rid of it.
So instead of working with Walther to resolve the issue that the gun had, you simply dumped the problem pistol onto someone else to deal with?
That does not speak very highly of you at all.
.
LanceOregon
06-19-11, 17:34
LanceOregon - thanks! How do these compare to the 3 Dot Trijicon NS? I have these on another platform. Also, it seems many here prefer the Tritium up front with the rear sights blacked out. Thoughts?
Well, all I can say is that the Meprolights have developed a good following among Walther PPS owners. If you visit those PPS/Walther specific websites that I mentioned, you will see a lot of posts from people that are happy with them.
Although the PPSTALK forum only seems to be online about half time. It is a pain to visit.
.
LanceOregon
06-19-11, 18:16
I got a 40 cal PPS awhile ago. My only complaint is it is not fun to shoot, the trigger is narrow and hurts a bit during recoil, same with the back-strap to frame fit area, it is causes a bit of pain while firing.
Overall good CC piece, but not one to do a ton of firing with.
I own the gun in both 9mm and 40 S&W, and I can attest that recoil with the .40 is more of a challenge to deal with. I've never been bothered by the trigger during recoil, but you do have a point about the frame being rather narrow to distribute the recoil from the .40 S&W
To make my PPS pistols more comfortable to shoot, I installed Limbsaver Pro Handgun Grip sleeves on both of them. These are so very superior to the Hogue Handalls in terms of grip enhancement, but are also quite good at helping to soften the effect of recoil. They are really outstanding how they go up the backstrap frame area. If that area is especially bothering you, then I would encourage you to give them a try too. If you visit any of the PPS/Walther specific websites like PPSTALK and the Walther Forums, you will see that the Limbsaver Pro Handgun Grip Sleeve is quite popular with PPS owners.
Here is a photo of my two PPS pistols, showing how the sleeve goes up the back of the frame. The Limbsaver model that I use is the 12013:
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/lanceJOregon/guns/DSC_2908b.jpg
I have personally found recoil from my Kahr P40 ( which I only kept for a few months ) to be far worse than the PPS in .40 S&W. The texture of the Kahr's grip is so very aggressive and sharp, that shooting it was definitely a pain. My Kahr also felt more top heavy, which seemed to give it a worse whiplash effect during recoil. So in comparison to a Kahr P40, the PPS is quite an improvement.
On my .40 PPS I also did replace the factory recoil spring and guide assembly with the heavier duty and more advanced DPM Systems unit ( $75 ). Here is what it looks like installed inside the gun:
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/lanceJOregon/guns/DSC_4356n2.jpg
So if recoil discomfort is really bothering you on your PPS .40, I highly recommend getting the Limbsaver Pro Handgun Grip Sleeve. And take a look at the DPM System product too, if you want to soften the felt recoil a bit more:
http://www.theshootersbox.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=976
.
I have personally found recoil from my Kahr P40 ( which I only kept for a few months ) to be far worse than the PPS in .40 S&W. The texture of the Kahr's grip is so very aggressive and sharp, that shooting it was definitely a pain. My Kahr also felt more top heavy, which seem to give it a worse whiplash effect during recoil. So in comparison to a Kahr P40, the PPS is quite an improvement.
I have identical observations with the 9mm variants of each gun mentioned (Kahr P9 and PPS 9mm). Relating to the G26, I find the PPS (9mm) fairly similar in felt recoil.
Those two Robar guns are beautiful by the way.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say chop the grip on your 19 to 26 height and throw on a pinky baseplate. When I carried a 19 it was the grip that caused me problems, my M&P Compact with the extended baseplate while technically not much shorter than a 19 at the tallest point, hides a thousand times better because the extra length is on the frontstrap not the back. Couple that with the radical 25 degree cant of my K25 and I can effectively conceal under a t-shirt and I'm a little dude 5' 6", 160lbs. IMO the thickness hasn't been much of a challenge but I can see how it would if you needed to pocket carry/ankle carry or hide it under a tucked shirt.
I own the gun in both 9mm and 40 S&W, and I can attest that recoil with the .40 is more of a challenge to deal with. I've never been bothered by the trigger during recoil, but you do have a point about the frame being rather narrow to distribute the recoil from the .40 S&W
To make my PPS pistols more comfortable to shoot, I installed Limbsaver Pro Handgun Grip sleeves on both of them. These are so very superior to the Hogue Handalls in terms of grip enhancement, but are also quite good at helping to soften the effect of recoil. They are really outstanding how they go up the backstrap frame area. If that area is especially bothering you, then I would encourage you to give them a try too. If you visit any of the PPS/Walther specific websites like PPSTALK and the Walther Forums, you will see that the Limbsaver Pro Handgun Grip Sleeve is quite popular with PPS owners.
Here is a photo of my two PPS pistols, showing how the sleeve goes up the back of the frame. The Limbsaver model that I use is the 12013:
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/lanceJOregon/guns/DSC_2908b.jpg
I have personally found recoil from my Kahr P40 ( which I only kept for a few months ) to be far worse than the PPS in .40 S&W. The texture of the Kahr's grip is so very aggressive and sharp, that shooting it was definitely a pain. My Kahr also felt more top heavy, which seemed to give it a worse whiplash effect during recoil. So in comparison to a Kahr P40, the PPS is quite an improvement.
On my .40 PPS I also did replace the factory recoil spring and guide assembly with the heavier duty and more advanced DPM Systems unit ( $75 ). Here is what it looks like installed inside the gun:
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/lanceJOregon/guns/DSC_4356n2.jpg
So if recoil discomfort is really bothering you on your PPS .40, I highly recommend getting the Limbsaver Pro Handgun Grip Sleeve. And take a look at the DPM System product too, if you want to soften the felt recoil a bit more:
http://www.theshootersbox.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=976
.
Thanks, ordered one.
I previously owned a G27 and currently own a PPS 9mm. I can say that I absolutely love the PPS. The Glock is a great weapon, no doubt. However, for CCW, the Walther PPS is SO much more comfortable. It's a pleasure to shoot and extremely reliable. It conceals MUCH better than the Glock. I carry an HK USP .40 on duty and the mag release of the HK is similar to the PPS so I actually prefer it. Only downside of the PPS, as mentioned by others, is that magazines run about $50/piece.
Only downside of the PPS, as mentioned by others, is that magazines run about $50/piece.
You need to visit Grant's web site. Gandrtactical.com
On my .40 PPS I also did replace the factory recoil spring and guide assembly with the heavier duty and more advanced DPM Systems unit ( $75 ). Here is what it looks like installed inside the gun:
I assume you know about this.....
http://theshootersbox.com/dpm_recall
...but was wondering can you actually tell a difference in recoil?
I had been looking at something similar and was wondering if anyone knew anything about them. I don;t find the recoil on the 9mm bad at all, but it's nice to know what after market products are available.
It looks like this one just uses 2 springs where the DPM uses 3?
http://btguiderods.com/category/walther/
Your pistols look too nice too shoot!
Santa Cruz Armory
06-20-11, 18:40
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/lanceJOregon/guns/DSC_2908b.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/lanceJOregon/guns/DSC_4356n2.jpg
Oooh! those are sexy! I like!! :happy:
You need to visit Grant's web site. Gandrtactical.com
Nice, not bad. Still $46 after shipping but definitely better than everywhere else. I picked up 3 lightly used ones for $60 on ppstalk.com
So instead of working with Walther to resolve the issue that the gun had, you simply dumped the problem pistol onto someone else to deal with?
That does not speak very highly of you at all.
.
So sorry if you're offended, but it's only a gun that did not meet my expectations, not a family member! If I dump a gun I'm not satisfied with it does not mean that I am a bad person.:laugh:
My PPS would function fine with hardball but it needed to be kept immaculately clean and well-lubed to function on hollow points. I actually found it helped to smear just a tiny bit of TW25B grease on the feed ramp. As soon as it got a little dirty (2 or 3 mags) it would start to choke on JHP's. As I mentioned earlier, it would not function well at all with Winchester RA9T's.
The PPS is a cute little pistol, but I recommend that anybody who carries one shoot if for a while to see if is really what you want to trust.
So sorry if you're offended, but it's only a gun that did not meet my expectations, not a family member! If I dump a gun I'm not satisfied with it does not mean that I am a bad person.:laugh:
My PPS would function fine with hardball but it needed to be kept immaculately clean and well-lubed to function on hollow points. I actually found it helped to smear just a tiny bit of TW25B grease on the feed ramp. As soon as it got a little dirty (2 or 3 mags) it would start to choke on JHP's. As I mentioned earlier, it would not function well at all with Winchester RA9T's.
The PPS is a cute little pistol, but I recommend that anybody who carries one shoot if for a while to see if is really what you want to trust.
I am sure that you told the person you sold it to that it had feeding issues with hollow point ammo right???
C4
Nephrology
06-21-11, 21:33
For what it's worth, I went with the G26. Got it for 400 with 3 mags at a local gun how the other day. Carries great! Not a single stack, for sure, but it helps me conceal in summertime t-shirt dress WAY better than my 19, especially when its at my 3 o clock.
LanceOregon
06-21-11, 23:07
I assume you know about this.....
http://theshootersbox.com/dpm_recall
...but was wondering can you actually tell a difference in recoil?
I had been looking at something similar and was wondering if anyone knew anything about them. I don;t find the recoil on the 9mm bad at all, but it's nice to know what after market products are available.
If you take a close look at the info on that recall page, and then look back at the photo of my DPM System Recoil Guide, you will see that I have have the captured system that was not recalled. It is my understanding that very few of the non-captured models were ever sold for the PPS, so not many PPS owners were ever affected by that recall.
I only got one for my .40 PPS, because its recoil is"sharper" and with more "bite". I know those are unscientific words, but that's about the best that I can come up with to describe the difference it feels.
And yes, it does take some of that "bite" out of the recoil.
.
LanceOregon
06-21-11, 23:18
For what it's worth, I went with the G26. Got it for 400 with 3 mags at a local gun how the other day.
Man alive, you made out like a bandit! That is one sweet deal you got!
Only thing I would suggest you do would be to get an extension for the mags, so that you can get a better grip on the gun. The Pearce Grips PG-26XL will really enhance your pistol. Here is what it looks like installed:
http://www.pearcegrip.com/image/7/PG-26XL_1
That DPM Systems Recoil Reduction Guide that I mentioned I have on my PPS is available for the Glock 26 too. Here is a photo of it installed on a Glock 26:
http://www.dpmsystems.com/en/products/images/e.jpg
LanceOregon
06-21-11, 23:31
So sorry if you're offended, but it's only a gun that did not meet my expectations, not a family member! If I dump a gun I'm not satisfied with it does not mean that I am a bad person.:laugh:
That would depend upon one's scruples, or lack of, as to how one might view doing that.
Just a couple of days ago you described your PPS as being "a dog" and "a POS". If you believed that the gun was really that bad, then one would ordinarily think that you would not want to pass such a gun onto someone else without any warning.
Besides, since you were the original owner, it would cost you NOTHING to ship it back to Walther America and have the gun worked on. The Walther PPS warranty only applies to the original owner.
If I had been in your shoes, it would have been a no-brainer to me to send the gun in to Walther, and then sell it to someone else after it came back.
.
Nephrology
06-22-11, 10:27
Man alive, you made out like a bandit! That is one sweet deal you got!
Only thing I would suggest you do would be to get an extension for the mags, so that you can get a better grip on the gun. The Pearce Grips PG-26XL will really enhance your pistol. Here is what it looks like installed:
http://www.pearcegrip.com/image/7/PG-26XL_1
That DPM Systems Recoil Reduction Guide that I mentioned I have on my PPS is available for the Glock 26 too. Here is a photo of it installed on a Glock 26:
http://www.dpmsystems.com/en/products/images/e.jpg
I know! I was very happy with the deal I got. Keith's Gun Store in Gresham, if you happen to know it.
I actually think that I am quite satisfied with the regular sized mags. I have smaller hands and with the stock 10rd mag in I just barely, but comfortably, get a strong grip on the pistol. I might buy a 3rd 10rd with a baseplate later on but I am in no rush. I figure if I really want the extra grip for whatever I am doing, I will take out the G19...
Summer time:
http://i.imgur.com/7fnaJ.jpg
Magic_Salad0892
06-22-11, 10:33
but it helps me conceal in summertime t-shirt dress WAY better than my 19, especially when its at my 3 o clock.
I'll admit, I was wrong that it doesn't carry any better than a 19.
I'm glad you made the better choice.
Stay safe.
LanceOregon
06-22-11, 10:59
I know! I was very happy with the deal I got. Keith's Gun Store in Gresham, if you happen to know it.
Yes, in fact, I've bought a couple of guns from Keith himself. Some folks complain about the service there, but they have always treated me real well. I'm more than a 2 hour drive from Gresham, though. So going to shop at his store is a rather long trip for me at almost 5 hours roundtrip just for the driving.
I've actually been buying most of my guns online for some time now. But if I lived near Keith's, I would probably do a lot of my shopping there. He does have great prices, and he stocks just about everything imaginable.
I'm shocked that he can sell brand new Glocks for only $400, though. You scored one great deal.
Glock 26 for $400 vs Walther PPS for $600
That kind of pricing really tips the balance in favor of the Glock, making it the much better value.
.
If you take a close look at the info on that recall page, and then look back at the photo of my DPM System Recoil Guide, you will see that I have have the captured system that was not recalled. It is my understanding that very few of the non-captured models were ever sold for the PPS, so not many PPS owners were ever affected by that recall.
I think that's what's been confusing me. I don't understand if the PPS is captured or not. I -thought- captured meant that the guide rod and springs stay together when removed. I thought though that those sites where offering non-captured PPS setups. I think I just got confused with what I was reading.
And yes, it does take some of that "bite" out of the recoil.
That's good to know, and yes, I know exactly what you are talking about. That's what I never could get used to on a .40. If that system did the same on 9mm then that and the Limbsaver would seem to make for a super easy shooting pistol.
I shot some more yesterday and it was mid 90's and very humid. I had no problem what so ever with the gun slipping and I had sweat just dripping off me. So that LimbSaver stays nice and grippy even when wet.
Nephrology
06-22-11, 11:21
Yes, in fact, I've bought a couple of guns from Keith himself. Some folks complain about the service there, but they have always treated me real well. I'm more than a 2 hour drive from Gresham, though. So going to shop at his store is a rather long trip for me at almost 5 hours roundtrip just for the driving.
I've actually been buying most of my guns online for some time now. But if I lived near Keith's, I would probably do a lot of my shopping there. He does have great prices, and he stocks just about everything imaginable.
I'm shocked that he can sell brand new Glocks for only $400, though. You scored one great deal.
Glock 26 for $400 vs Walther PPS for $600
That kind of pricing really tips the balance in favor of the Glock, making it the much better value.
.
Oh, the 26 was used @ 425 and they had a deal at the show - 25 dollars off all used pistols. Frankly I really never intend to buy a new glock - I am a certified armorer and even if I wasn't fixing/replacing anything that does (which is pretty rare to begin with...) is pretty cheap and incredibly easy.
Going to put some ammo through it this weekend. I have a 17 that is being a little hiccup-y that I will try to work in too. I suspect it needs a new recoil assembly - the one that it came with feels rather undersprung. Maybe a factory lemon.
Nephrology
06-22-11, 11:26
I'll admit, I was wrong that it doesn't carry any better than a 19.
I'm glad you made the better choice.
Stay safe.
It's OK. It certainly isn't an enormous improvement over the 19 but the little bit does make a difference when I am carrying in just a T-shirt. The fact that it could fit the bill for carry if my 19 is taken into custody or goes down to mechanical error is an even bigger improvement. For 400 bucks I feel like I got a lot of gun.
Magic_Salad0892
06-22-11, 11:55
It's OK. It certainly isn't an enormous improvement over the 19 but the little bit does make a difference when I am carrying in just a T-shirt. The fact that it could fit the bill for carry if my 19 is taken into custody or goes down to mechanical error is an even bigger improvement. For 400 bucks I feel like I got a lot of gun.
Are you going to set it up exactly like your carry 19?
Nephrology
06-22-11, 12:08
Are you going to set it up exactly like your carry 19?
All of my Glocks wear Ameriglo Hackathorns. My g19's rear sight is slightly different (a little narrower) but otherwise my G17RTF,G19 and G26 are all set up totally identically. Put the Hacks on my 26 about 15 minutes after I got home with it! G17RTF is my IPSC/IDPA pistol.
I also got the Hacks for free from Ameriglo, who sent them to me no questions asked when I sent them a rear sight of theirs whose tritium vial was slightly off center, so I got a fully set up pistol for 400 + 10 dollar transfer fee.
LanceOregon
06-22-11, 13:29
Oh, the 26 was used @ 425 and they had a deal at the show - 25 dollars off all used pistols. Frankly I really never intend to buy a new glock - I am a certified armorer and even if I wasn't fixing/replacing anything that does (which is pretty rare to begin with...) is pretty cheap and incredibly easy.
Ah, OK, that explains how you got such a great price.
Still a tremendous deal, though, since Glocks are built like a tank, and are easy to work on, as you noted.
.
LanceOregon
06-22-11, 13:33
I shot some more yesterday and it was mid 90's and very humid. I had no problem what so ever with the gun slipping and I had sweat just dripping off me. So that LimbSaver stays nice and grippy even when wet.
For anyone in a hot, humid climate, or a real rainy wet climate, that is a great benefit that the Limbsaver offers. It works way better than the Hogue Handall grip sleeves, in my opinion.
.
ldunnmobile
06-23-11, 08:29
I would choose the G26 because of its versatility, durability, ease of maintenance, ease of user mods, and mag capacity, and it shoots just good as a 19,17. That being said, if for whatever reason I couldn't conceal a G26, I would go PPS.
Bottom line, IMO, is that the PPS is the single stack compact Glock that Glock should have made (I know about the G36 but it's hardly "thin").
Similarities: Trigger, Field Strip/Cleaning, Striker Fired, Quality, Durability
Differences (Pro/Con): Mag. Release (personal choice), expensive magazines (Con Walther), conceal-ability (BIG PRO Walther), magazine capacity (Con Walther), Interchangeable back straps (Pro Walther), Striker Cocked Indicator (Pro Walther), Customization (not an issue to me..I cannot modify my carry weapons). Holster choices (Con Walther..sort of. There are a lot more popping up lately).
Glocks are great, no doubt. But if you're looking for a single stack Glock in a 9mm or 40. The PPS is for you.
I picked up the PPS about 2 weeks ago, largely inpart to the great information here. It is an excellent pistol all around. 350 (50jhp's) rounds so far and not a single hiccup during the break in period. It's amazingly accurate for it's size.
I've grown to REALLY like the mag release, although picking up my other handguns after shooting the PPS, I caught myself reaching for the mag release in the trigger guard...going to take some more training to fully seperate the 2 in my mind.
It's still early, but I really like this gun and after a couple hundred more rounds, it will be my edc.
btw...the difference IWB between the PPS and g26 in NIGHT AND DAY.
btw...the difference IWB between the PPS and g26 in NIGHT AND DAY.
Which holster did you get? I'm looking for a simple (cheap) IWB until I can get a nice Kydex model.
Anyone use the Galco clip on? It's the reverse grain with smooth side in. I think it's call a summer carry or similar.
I bought the comptac MTAC.
I was looking into the galco and desantis tuckable IWB holsters, and the desantis insider for deeper carry in athletic type shorts. I can't recommend either way as I haven't tried them yet, but for $22, it's not a bad start.
Comptac had a sale going on, 10% off, you may call and see if they'll still honor it. They also have a more economical version of the mtac, take a look at their website, I've heard good things about them, raven concealment, and crossbreed as far as the PPS goes. Another nice feature of the comptacs is that you can get multiple bodies for modularity. Let us know what you get and how you like it.
I picked up the PPS about 2 weeks ago, largely inpart to the great information here. It is an excellent pistol all around. 350 (50jhp's) rounds so far and not a single hiccup during the break in period. It's amazingly accurate for it's size.
My old PPS would go through a 50 rd box of 9mm 147 gr Speer Gold Dots, (it seemed to like those) but I would not trust it to go though 2 boxes without a feed jam. If you feel like it try running your Walther hard and see how it goes.
Which holster did you get? I'm looking for a simple (cheap) IWB until I can get a nice Kydex model.
Anyone use the Galco clip on? It's the reverse grain with smooth side in. I think it's call a summer carry or similar.
Check out Alabamaholster.com. I got one for my PPS and love it. I'll post pics later.
My old PPS would go through a 50 rd box of 9mm 147 gr Speer Gold Dots, (it seemed to like those) but I would not trust it to go though 2 boxes without a feed jam. If you feel like it try running your Walther hard and see how it goes.
From what I've read, it seems some of the older production year PPS's had some issues feeding JHP's. Like I said, I've only put 50 through it so far and I plan on putting more through soon, although I use the 124g GDHP so I don't know if that will make any difference. But from what I've seen so far, I don't anticipate any issues, thanks for the heads up though, will def put it through the paces before trusting my life to it.
LanceOregon
06-25-11, 12:09
My old PPS would go through a 50 rd box of 9mm 147 gr Speer Gold Dots, (it seemed to like those) but I would not trust it to go though 2 boxes without a feed jam. If you feel like it try running your Walther hard and see how it goes.
Well, but you fail to also mention here that you refused to send you PPS back to the factory to have it checked out. That was really too bad, as you could have then probably learned the cause of the difficulty.
.
Well, but you fail to also mention here that you refused to send you PPS back to the factory to have it checked out. That was really too bad, as you could have then probably learned the cause of the difficulty.
.
Hey Lance, Do I tell you how to run your life?
Please leave me alone.
Hey Lance, Do I tell you how to run your life?
Please leave me alone.
Valid criticisms are appreciated. Don't worry about people giving you a hard time.
I'm going to run some of my brother's .40 S&W JHPs through his PPS just to make sure it functions with it. Thanks for the heads up.
Don't think he was giving him a hard time, just stating that one person's experience could be out of the norm. I did read that some of the older PPS's had issue with JHP's, but a lot of the issues were taken care of by proper lubrication as it seems the PPS needs more lube than just what Walther recommends.
also, I've seen a lot of posts about peoplee polishing their feed ramps and solving the issue. Mine came polished...I'm guessing they weren't before?
also, I've seen a lot of posts about peoplee polishing their feed ramps and solving the issue. Mine came polished...I'm guessing they weren't before?
I polished my feed ramps on all of my hand guns. It keeps things feeding smoothly and no issues whatsoever with my PPS. None of them COME polished though..so if yours was, then you bought a used one that the previous owner polished. I had feed issues with my brand new Ruger LCP but once I polished up the feed ramp, all problems completely went away.
I polished my feed ramps on all of my hand guns. It keeps things feeding smoothly and no issues whatsoever with my PPS. None of them COME polished though..so if yours was, then you bought a used one that the previous owner polished. I had feed issues with my brand new Ruger LCP but once I polished up the feed ramp, all problems completely went away.
Mine CAME polished with no wear on the gun whatsoever, still greased up from the factory. So unless someone bought it, didn't fire it, left the factory grease on it, polished it, and sent it back to the distributor, my guess is that came that way from the factory. It was bought 2 weeks ago.
I can take pictures if needed.
I'll be honest with you, I thought mine was polished too. It has a BA date code 2010 and I bought it maybe 3 weeks ago.
So far I've shot somewhere around 500 rounds and have not cleaned it.
115G Georgia Arms
115G WWB
124G Georgia Arms
147G HP Georgia Arms
I have yet to have anything not work. The HP's have been shot through the whole process. Just finished them up yesterday.
Anyway, if the ramps are not polished, they sure are shiny and smooth. No lines or marks and I know mine was new.
I think in another thread, I brought up the topic about how the Walther's back strap safety/lock could theoretically fail and leave the gun completely inoperable...I didn't have any examples of happening at that time but recently ran across this vid, so I figure I'd continue the discussion here instead...
http://youtu.be/IvKCiKN88iU
Any thoughts on that?
I think in another thread, I brought up the topic about how the Walther's back strap safety/lock could theoretically fail and leave the gun completely inoperable...I didn't have any examples of happening at that time but recently ran across this vid, so I figure I'd continue the discussion here instead...
http://youtu.be/IvKCiKN88iU
Any thoughts on that?
Sorry, the vid doesn't tell us much. All firearms can fail if they are not assembled (put back together) correctly.
C4
Yeah, that guy in the video clearly does not understand how to install the back strap. Rather than try to install top and bottom at same time you are supposed to align top dots then lightly push strap up towards slide. that allows bottom dots to align and strap will fall into place. Then it is finally pushed up towards slide and the spring loaded clip at bottom locks into place. It's one smooth arc motion in typical smooth logical German fashion. It was designed ( for right or wrong ) as a safety and it attaches / detaches quite easily when done properly.
I would be willing to bet there was some human intervention involved in turning that back strap into a "defective" part prior to making that video.
I can't help thinking the video should have been titled. How I broke my back strap.
I hope no one turns that guy loose on a 1911 leaf spring.
He didn't push hard enough....and once the magazine is seated, the back strap can't come off b/c the magazine sort of locks it in place.
I suppose IF, in the course of a magazine change, you somehow dislodged the back strap then you'd have an inoperable firearm. But I just can't imagine how one could do that. Is it POSSIBLE?...I guess so.... Is it enough of a possibility to steer me away from this firearm?...Absolutely not.
If you prefer IWB carry, I think the PPS is far supperior than the 26. I can carry my PPS in the 5 o'clock position and honestly forget I am carrying it when I am driving. If I could only keep one or the other, my 26 would have to go. My G19 isn't that different from the 26 but the PPS is WAY more comfortable to carry than the 19. Walther really has a great thing with the PPS, Glock should of already had their own. I actually got lucky and got one a couple years ago with an extremely light trigger, even lighter than a factory Glock.
He didn't push hard enough....and once the magazine is seated, the back strap can't come off b/c the magazine sort of locks it in place.
I suppose IF, in the course of a magazine change, you somehow dislodged the back strap then you'd have an inoperable firearm. But I just can't imagine how one could do that. Is it POSSIBLE?...I guess so.... Is it enough of a possibility to steer me away from this firearm?...Absolutely not.
He's pushing it far enough but he has either broken the little spring loaded catch on the back strap or bent the metal ledge it catches on. According to the YT video comments he was able to damage two on a brand new gun. I did not search for the thread but it's supposedly on PPSTalk.com.
The magazine holds the back strap in. IOW, when the magazine is inserted the back strap latch can not move to the un-latched position. Now if you remove teh magazine, then yes, in theory, you could grab, bump, snag, that latch. IT's actually not hard to do at all. It can even come unlatched with a LimbSaver sleeve installed. With the LimbSaver it obviously will not move far but it will unlatch and will need to be pushed back up, say 1/8" to 1/4".
But yes, if you were fumbling around and tried to install your magazine upside down or doing some other sort of un-natural or distressed mag install it can easily be unlatched.
Someone, somewhere mentioned that the strap should be able to be pinned and I agree. I have looked at it and I believe a small hole could be drilled in the back edge of the strap, a small metal threaded insert epoxied in place and then add a an Allen screw with blue LokTite. This would prevent the spring loaded latch from being able to be released without first backing the screw out.
Again, if you do use a LimbSaver and knock the latch loose, all you have to do is quickly bump the thing back into the latched position. The only real important issue is that the magazine can not be installed. You can't shove the mag in and try to bump it all back into the latched position. It won;t work that way. You need to latch it then insert magazine.
I may order a new back strap one day and see how easily that set screw deal might work. It seems like it would be very easy to do.
The other thing that work, but someone would have to manufacture it. The back strap has these channels in the center. The magazine tabs are on the sides. so someone could make a plug, like that Glock plug and it would prevent the back strap from being able to be unlatched without removal of the plug. I just don;t know what would hold it in and it too might require a screw through the back strap.
Anyway it looks a very easy modification by someone with those basic parts and skills.
I have handled both when I was researching a CCW, and ended up going with the PPS. I absolutely love it because it shoots dead accurate and has been reliable. The mag release is a better design in my opinion, something I wished more pistols had.
However, I am so converted to it that I sometimes try to press the trigger guard on my other pistols to release the mag now, lol.
BUT, it is James Bond's new carry weapon now, so you can't go wrong with 007's choice :P
Nephrology
07-01-11, 13:58
However, I am so converted to it that I sometimes try to press the trigger guard on my other pistols to release the mag now, lol.
Honestly this is what killed it for me and is why I got the 26. I'd rather have a gun that I know I can shoot well over one that is slightly smaller but who I would have to sink a LOT of training into to get as proficient with the reloads. Trying to keep my life as uncomplicated as possible.
Magic_Salad0892
07-01-11, 15:18
Honestly this is what killed it for me and is why I got the 26. I'd rather have a gun that I know I can shoot well over one that is slightly smaller but who I would have to sink a LOT of training into to get as proficient with the reloads. Trying to keep my life as uncomplicated as possible.
Smart.
I love the picture in your avatar by the way.
LanceOregon
07-01-11, 15:32
I think in another thread, I brought up the topic about how the Walther's back strap safety/lock could theoretically fail and leave the gun completely inoperable...I didn't have any examples of happening at that time but recently ran across this vid, so I figure I'd continue the discussion here instead...
http://youtu.be/IvKCiKN88iU
Any thoughts on that?
I doubt anyone here will agree with your position.
As has been pointed out numerous times on many websites, the backstrap on the PPS NEVER needs to be removed. It does NOT have to be taken off for disassembly of the pistol. The PPS can be taken apart for cleaning in the exact same manner that a Glock is. In fact, I can break down my two PPS pistols in just a few seconds.
The simple fact is that one never needs to have to play with the backstrap at all.
You are trying to promote a problem and an issue that simply does not exist. If you actually owned a PPS, you would realize how wrong you are about this.
.
NikokurausuX9
07-01-11, 19:42
I doubt anyone here will agree with your position.
As has been pointed out numerous times on many websites, the backstrap on the PPS NEVER needs to be removed. It does NOT have to be taken off for disassembly of the pistol. The PPS can be taken apart for cleaning in the exact same manner that a Glock is. In fact, I can break down my two PPS pistols in just a few seconds.
The simple fact is that one never needs to have to play with the backstrap at all.
You are trying to promote a problem and an issue that simply does not exist. If you actually owned a PPS, you would realize how wrong you are about this.
.
Whether the backstrap never "needs" to be removed is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that it's accidental removal or breakage can possibly disable the gun. That's the issue. It's a design flaw. Period. Can you name another modern handgun design that will not function if the backstrap is not on?
It's a ridiculous safety step that unnecessarily complicates the design and it's use/performance. The backstrap issue is the one thing that keeps me from purchasing the Walther PPS when I revisit it while contemplating another purchase. Can it be mitigated? Yes. Grip tape, grip sleeves, and overlayed stippling material can go a long way to preventing the QuickSafe from activating. I'm also willing to bet that glue and epoxy would as well. The better, more permanent solutions though remove the changeable backstrap feature from the gun.
What it boils down to is that the QuickSafe feature adds a failure point to the firearm that can occur while using it under duress. A feature that is not needed. Whether or not the chances of failure are small, their existence as possibility makes me pause and gives me a difficult decision to grapple with while considering what otherwise looks like an incredible little firearm.
Whether the backstrap never "needs" to be removed is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that it's accidental removal or breakage can possibly disable the gun. That's the issue. It's a design flaw. Period. Can you name another modern handgun design that will not function if the backstrap is not on?
I get what you are saying, and I don't really disagree. That said, there are plenty of "modern" designs that have something that is the same in spirit and in liability if not in execution. Magazine disconnect safeties give the same end result and are much easier to activate, in fact you do so in the course of operating the firearm on a regular basis whenever you change or remove a magazine; and it'd be a lot easier to accidentally hit a protruding magazine release button than remove the backstrap on the PPS accidentally, particularly with a mag in the gun. Locks like those on S&W revolvers have the potential to mechanically fail and there is historical evidence of this happening.
I do wish the "feature" wasn't present on the PPS, however I've come to the conclusion that it isn't a high enough risk to change my decision to use the gun for carry. Others may come to different conclusions and that is fine.
NikokurausuX9
07-01-11, 19:53
I get what you are saying, and I don't really disagree. That said, there are plenty of "modern" designs that have something that is the same in spirit and in liability if not in execution. Magazine disconnect safeties give the same end result and are much easier to activate, in fact you do so in the course of operating the firearm on a regular basis whenever you change or remove a magazine; and it'd be a lot easier to accidentally hit a protruding magazine release button than remove the backstrap on the PPS accidentally, particularly with a mag in the gun. Locks like those on S&W revolvers have the potential to mechanically fail and there is historical evidence of this happening.
I do wish the "feature" wasn't present on the PPS, however I've come to the conclusion that it isn't a high enough risk to change my decision to use the gun for carry. Others may come to different conclusions and that is fine.
That's very true. I guess the QuickSafe on the Walther just strikes me as a big, glaring billboard for needless safety. I'm still very interested in it. Just have to move past that little voice in my head repeating "What if the backstrap comes off?".
Whether the backstrap never "needs" to be removed is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that it's accidental removal or breakage can possibly disable the gun. That's the issue. It's a design flaw. Period. Can you name another modern handgun design that will not function if the backstrap is not on?
I own one and shoot it a lot. Guys that attend my training run this gun. The back strap does NOT accidentally come loose, fall off or anything else. It is rock solid. I can do lot's of "stupid user tricks" to disable ANY firearm.
What it boils down to is that the QuickSafe feature adds a failure point to the firearm that can occur while using it under duress. A feature that is not needed. Whether or not the chances of failure are small, their existence as possibility makes me pause and gives me a difficult decision to grapple with while considering what otherwise looks like an incredible little firearm.
I have no idea how the "under duress" failure idea comes into play here. Is this some kind of "what if" scenario where you are cleaning your gun (fully apart) and then you notice ZOMBIES are trying to kill you and you have to quickly re-assemble your weapon, but forget the back strap so you die kind of things?????
The choice to buy this gun is an easy one. It is awesome. Nothing compares to it in its size and weight class. In fact, I can shoot 3-4 inch groups at 25yds with mine and hit 10" plates at 85yds with it. There some full size guns that I cannot do this with as they lack this firearms accuracy.
C4
NikokurausuX9
07-01-11, 20:46
I have no idea how the "under duress" failure idea comes into play here. Is this some kind of "what if" scenario where you are cleaning your gun (fully apart) and then you notice ZOMBIES are trying to kill you and you have to quickly re-assemble your weapon, but forget the back strap so you die kind of things?????
Nope. It's a backstrap coming off/breaking during a drop the gun, drop the gun during a struggle, drop the gun during a botched reload, backstrap moved during a struggle, OCCAM'S RAZOR scenario.
There are numerous user and/or adversary induced things that can go wrong with a pistol when you need to use it. The QuickSafe feature, adds to this list unnecessarily in my opinion.
Nope. It's a backstrap coming off/breaking during a drop the gun, drop the gun during a struggle, drop the gun during a botched reload, backstrap moved during a struggle, OCCAM'S RAZOR scenario.
There are numerous user and/or adversary induced things that can go wrong with a pistol when you need to use it. The QuickSafe feature, adds to this list unnecessarily in my opinion.
Sorry, I am not this paranoid.
C4
It's a backstrap coming off/breaking during a drop the gun,
That's going to be one hard ass drop. Like off a building, which means bye bye gun.
backstrap moved during a struggle,
If the magazine is in the gun you are probably going to need a hammer and screw driver to beat that back strap to the point it fails.
drop the gun during a struggle
If you have lost control of your gun in a struggle you will probably be praying the back strap does come off. In fact you might save your own life if you could some how snag the latch and make it pop off.
I see your point but this is sort of like saying air bags are dangerous flaws because they could go off while you are driving down the road.
I have to admit that I do not like the backstrap feature of the PPS, I don't know of anyone that does enjoy it. But we have found ways to mitigate it, I do so by using 1 strip of electrical tape or my limbsaver on the PPS.
Other than that, it really is the perfect CCW. Capacity may be an issue for some, and this is where the Glock has the advantage. BUT if you need to run through a whole magazine in any situation, you are in deeper than a conceal carry will address in the first place.
Going back to the ma release on the trigger, I joked about reaching for it on other pistols from habit, but it doesn't take any serious training or time to get used to it. I don't think that the difference in mag release will confuse anyone in a dire situation.
If anything it offers an opportunity to broaden your training. I come from the school of thought involving weapons of opportunity. If all I do is train on the same setup over and over and not train on others, I really limit myself. If I have different weapons with different setups, it offers me the advantage of familiarity if I ever get into it and there are other weapons available.
Anyway, the Glock offers you a familiar platform, reliability, and capacity while the PPS is specialized for CCW. Either way, just make sure you familiarize and train with what you choose and you will be just fine.
"Going back to the ma release on the trigger, I joked about reaching for it on other pistols from habit, but it doesn't take any serious training or time to get used to it. I don't think that the difference in mag release will confuse anyone in a dire situation."
I think that during a dire situation is exactly when it will confuse you. Two systems which are similar in most respects but with one detail different are very difficult to deal with under life and death stress. Not competition stress or shot timer stress, but a once in a lifetime (for most of us) somebody is trying to kill me stress. Highly trained military or LE officers who get thousands and thousands of rounds fired yearly and who learn to function effectively under repeated situations of potentially life threatening stress could probably overcome this. For the average Joe CCW, I see this a a real problem. We're going to default to whatever we've practiced most.
By way of disclosure: I'm not LE or .mil, and I've never been in a gunfight. My opinion comes from lots of time dealing with fire and rescue service training issues. An example: we have two different types of connections on our SCBA air lines, which we use to quickly switch form our own air to a buddy breather connection. Both types are in front line use. One is a twist and push, the other is a newer push-then-pull. When we set up failures and a fire fighter goes to draw breath and sucks the mask to his/her face, many will quickly grab the disconnect and try to disconnect it the old way, which they practiced for years. If they have the new fitting, which is in the same place and feels similar, they will sometimes end up having to break their mask seal to grab a breath instead of remembering to try the different technique. "I can't breath" is a pretty strong stressor. On the other hand, if we just don the gear and run practices it usually goes pretty well. Similar but slightly different just seems like a recipe for error, and is most likely to appear at the worst of times.
hey grant what's your estimated round count on the pps? If it was already mentioned in this thread i apologize. It seems that the pps had some teething issues early on (slides locking up) but later ones are good? it's basically a narrow glock, so it's off to a good start.
do you get smith and wesson's famous customer service with this thing? :cool:
.....but later ones are good?
Can't speak to specifics but I believe the general thoughts now are that the BA date codes are good to go. The two letters to the left of the Antlers on the right hand side of the slide.
Those two letters specify the year. A/0, B/1, C/2, D/3, etc. BA=10 or 2010.
Can't speak to specifics but I believe the general thoughts now are that the BA date codes are good to go. The two letters to the left of the Antlers on the right hand side of the slide.
Those two letters specify the year. A/0, B/1, C/2, D/3, etc. BA=10 or 2010.
how bout BB? :confused:
"Going back to the ma release on the trigger, I joked about reaching for it on other pistols from habit, but it doesn't take any serious training or time to get used to it. I don't think that the difference in mag release will confuse anyone in a dire situation."
I think that during a dire situation is exactly when it will confuse you. Two systems which are similar in most respects but with one detail different are very difficult to deal with under life and death stress. Not competition stress or shot timer stress, but a once in a lifetime (for most of us) somebody is trying to kill me stress. Highly trained military or LE officers who get thousands and thousands of rounds fired yearly and who learn to function effectively under repeated situations of potentially life threatening stress could probably overcome this. For the average Joe CCW, I see this a a real problem. We're going to default to whatever we've practiced most.
By way of disclosure: I'm not LE or .mil, and I've never been in a gunfight. My opinion comes from lots of time dealing with fire and rescue service training issues. An example: we have two different types of connections on our SCBA air lines, which we use to quickly switch form our own air to a buddy breather connection. Both types are in front line use. One is a twist and push, the other is a newer push-then-pull. When we set up failures and a fire fighter goes to draw breath and sucks the mask to his/her face, many will quickly grab the disconnect and try to disconnect it the old way, which they practiced for years. If they have the new fitting, which is in the same place and feels similar, they will sometimes end up having to break their mask seal to grab a breath instead of remembering to try the different technique. "I can't breath" is a pretty strong stressor. On the other hand, if we just don the gear and run practices it usually goes pretty well. Similar but slightly different just seems like a recipe for error, and is most likely to appear at the worst of times.
I don't disagree, but I don't think I agree either. But I'll give a little more credit to the average joe that they can handle learning multiple fine motor skills and develop procedural memory for two different systems.
AKs charge differently than the M16 platforms, and differently than a bolt action rifle....but I'm not going to limit myself to one platform because I don't want to freeze up. It makes more sense to me to balance the training and become proficient with any of them. When I see it, I should be able to recall the procedure as if through muscle memory.
swa0210, I think that with systems which are grossly different such as bolt gun vs m4, confusion is much less likely. Large frame revolver vs PPS might also be less likely to cause stress confusion. Glock vs PPS, pretty close in feel but with a key operating control different, I'd be concerned. I think this point is relevant to the OP question since OP had history with Glocks. Will he have the time, money, and opportunity to build stress tolerance needed to reliably operate both systems?
Maybe this would be a good discussion on one of the training and tactics subforums so we don't derail this thread.
Fair enough. Has the OP made a decision yet, BTW?
how bout BB?
He's still got the blues!
B=1
BB=11
2011
well i just hit the gun shop and fondled a pps..
neat little gun.. kinda... tall though.. as far as height goes i'm not sure it's so different from a glock 19. one of my biggest pet peeves of a concealment weapon is having the butt of it bang on stuff or stick out. i've found more or less the perfect position for a glock 19 (2:30, canted forward about 15 degrees, low IWB) where it doesn't hit anything or show really.
seems too tall for pocket carry...
I'm really thinking i should just give up the search for a tiny 9mm and i dunno... buy a second g19 or something. :confused: it's certainly the gun i'd rather have in my hands if bad things were to occur...
Here's a $50 off mail-in rebate for the Walther PPS. I'm not sure if someone has posted this already.
http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/Walther/upload/other/promos/Walther_PPS_Coupon_062011.pdf
I prefer the PPS mag release because I carry an HK USP on duty which has a very similar mag release. I also RARELY carry spare mags off duty so the back strap failure theory doesn't apply to me because I won't be doing any mag changes if I run out of ammo. At that point, it becomes a blunt object that I'm throwing at the perp. (I kid on that last part).
"I'm really thinking i should just give up the search for a tiny 9mm and i dunno... buy a second g19 or something. it's certainly the gun i'd rather have in my hands if bad things were to occur..."
You probably should. The PPS is not for everyone. I really don't think the PPS was ever intended to fill the "tiny 9mm" slot.
I tried the "tiny" gun route with a Colt Pony. That was a disaster. Borrowed a Colt Mustang for a few weeks. That didn't do it. Owned an H&K compact .40. Great gun but the "compact" aspect was a bit lost on me. Then a Glock compact .40. I would have rather had the HK back but the reality was, I just don't like .40. I was too used to light shooting .45 and .38 special.
Soo... for me with small hands, small frame, not wanting the 1911 type in a small version, the PPS was been the most perfect fit. It just so happens that I love the way it shoots and I also prefer the mag release ( which is especially nice for small hands and probably also makes this an excellent choice for women ). I have now reached the point with selection that nothing is broken and needs to be fixed so to speak.
You, and many others probably, don't really need anything fixed. You already have a system that's not broken so why change it.
If you are looking to fill a large void though, it at least belongs on your short list.
It figures they would give $50 off after I waited and waited for a promo.
hey grant what's your estimated round count on the pps? If it was already mentioned in this thread i apologize. It seems that the pps had some teething issues early on (slides locking up) but later ones are good? it's basically a narrow glock, so it's off to a good start.
do you get smith and wesson's famous customer service with this thing? :cool:
I think I have about 800-1000 rounds through mine. I am kind of new to the PPS so I have not seen any of the feeding issues (with mine or any of the ones we have sold to local customers). I have heard about them though. Before I started to carry this weapon, I did a lot of research about the problems people were having. So I did some polishing to the feed ramp and feed tray to eliminate any potential issues.
What I love about this gun is that I can carry it in a RCS via OWB and it hides the same as a gun in a IWB holster.
For those that don't know, new PPS's come with TWO mags (not one). One mag is the 7rd and the other is 8rd. We are also starting to stock spare parts for this gun (striker assemblies, recoil springs/guide rod, etc).
C4
Here's a $50 off mail-in rebate for the Walther PPS. I'm not sure if someone has posted this already.
http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/Walther/upload/other/promos/Walther_PPS_Coupon_062011.pdf
Makes sense, only a few weeks after I buy one.
The new SIG P290 is pretty dang small and 9mm...might be worth a look as well....
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS9bIfrMbxmKRuO55-1Ukr_xCd0iGABo_4rnH165maIHUay-68&t=1
I think I have about 800-1000 rounds through mine. I am kind of new to the PPS so I have not seen any of the feeding issues (with mine or any of the ones we have sold to local customers). I have heard about them though. Before I started to carry this weapon, I did a lot of research about the problems people were having. So I did some polishing to the feed ramp and feed tray to eliminate any potential issues.
What I love about this gun is that I can carry it in a RCS via OWB and it hides the same as a gun in a IWB holster.
For those that don't know, new PPS's come with TWO mags (not one). One mag is the 7rd and the other is 8rd. We are also starting to stock spare parts for this gun (striker assemblies, recoil springs/guide rod, etc).
C4
thanks grant,
keep us updated as the round counts increase... :cool:
Both are great. Get both.
Best concealment depends on body shape.
PPS better for some in shoulder or IWB holster; but for others G26 might be better in the IWB or SH.
Have to shift grip to drop mag on PPS--dont like.
G26 is more durable in WROL scenario
If I had to chose one the G26 Gen 4 would be it.
Nephrology
07-05-11, 10:14
Fair enough. Has the OP made a decision yet, BTW?
Haha yes many pages back. Got a G26 for 400 USD
Nephrology
07-05-11, 10:16
I don't disagree, but I don't think I agree either. But I'll give a little more credit to the average joe that they can handle learning multiple fine motor skills and develop procedural memory for two different systems.
AKs charge differently than the M16 platforms, and differently than a bolt action rifle....but I'm not going to limit myself to one platform because I don't want to freeze up. It makes more sense to me to balance the training and become proficient with any of them. When I see it, I should be able to recall the procedure as if through muscle memory.
The chances of me having to defend myself with an AK are orders of magnitude lower than the chances of me having to defend myself with a handgun that I carry on my person on a daily basis...
Haha yes many pages back. Got a G26 for 400 USD
Nice, good deal for the G26...4th gen or no?
As for the AK.....not to be crude, but duh...it was an example that can be used for pistols as well. A revolver has loading and reloading procedures and action which differs from a 1911, which differs from a glock, which differs slightly when releasing the mag with HK or Walther.
The point is that to limit yourself to one mechanical action is not smart. Familiarize yourself with as many options as possible.
Obviously pick one you are comfortable with to defend yourself and train on that more, but don't stick your head in the sand and ignore everything else.
Nephrology
07-05-11, 12:50
Nice, good deal for the G26...4th gen or no?
As for the AK.....not to be crude, but duh...it was an example that can be used for pistols as well. A revolver has loading and reloading procedures and action which differs from a 1911, which differs from a glock, which differs slightly when releasing the mag with HK or Walther.
The point is that to limit yourself to one mechanical action is not smart. Familiarize yourself with as many options as possible.
Obviously pick one you are comfortable with to defend yourself and train on that more, but don't stick your head in the sand and ignore everything else.
3rd gen. and I have nothing against learning how to shoot other guns but I am comfortable enough with most guns to know that I want to be very proficient with Glocks. I can work a revolver just fine, but I don't own one and am not really convinced I want to spend a lot of time getting to know how to shoot them well.
I just posted in another thread that I looked over a PPS today for the first time and ordered a nine,since the only one they had was in .40. I liked the Glock-like trigger since that's what I'm used to and was impressed with the trigger guard mag release,as it seems it wouldn't get activated as easily in a pocket as a standard one.
The thinness is a big plus and if the gun proves reliable as I like when I get it,it will become a walk down the beach,or go to the mailbox gun,as well as an offside back up to my normal G19.
The wife liked it ,but still prefers her Robarized G26,because of the width,not in spite of it.
Grant,just wanted to add I appreciate your observations on this pistol.I am initially impressed with it for it's intended use.Looking forward to mine coming in and putting it through the paces.
caddishatch
02-11-12, 09:09
The PPS is way more sexy than a G26 too:
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/lanceJOregon/guns/_DSC6800c.jpg
Who did the slide work on this PPS?
caddishatch
02-11-12, 09:11
I think I have about 800-1000 rounds through mine. I am kind of new to the PPS so I have not seen any of the feeding issues (with mine or any of the ones we have sold to local customers). I have heard about them though. Before I started to carry this weapon, I did a lot of research about the problems people were having. So I did some polishing to the feed ramp and feed tray to eliminate any potential issues.
What I love about this gun is that I can carry it in a RCS via OWB and it hides the same as a gun in a IWB holster.
For those that don't know, new PPS's come with TWO mags (not one). One mag is the 7rd and the other is 8rd. We are also starting to stock spare parts for this gun (striker assemblies, recoil springs/guide rod, etc).
C4
What holsters are guys using for the PPS? When are you getting more mags in for this gun?
How is the trigger reset on the PPS compared to the PPQ ?
caddishatch
02-12-12, 07:02
How is the trigger reset on the PPS compared to the PPQ ?
I shot a PPS today and I own a PPQ. The reset on the PPQ is way shorter. The trigger break is similar. I really like the PPS and love my PPQ.
I have a pps in 9. The holster that works for me is the comp tac spartan for my hk 45c that I use for all my hk's p2000sk, p30, p2000.
What holsters are guys using for the PPS? When are you getting more mags in for this gun?
RCS.
Mags are on order. Send us an e-mail to be notified.
C4
How is the trigger reset on the PPS compared to the PPQ ?
Not as good, but you have to remember that this is a very small gun.
C4
I personally like the look of the G26, nice little guy.
Bringing this back from the dead.
G43 vs PPS? Anyone have both?
LibertyNeverDies
05-19-15, 17:49
They are completely different animals. Really depends on the role you plan on using it for. If it's Concealed Carry how do you dress?
The PPS is one of my favorite guns of all time due to the fact with trigger(dry fire) is lackluster and the ergos suck, but while your shooting it the ergos allow for perfect control and the trigger is quick and the group sizes are the best I've shot. It is a very instinctive gun to shoot.
That said the glock is a more practical choice if you can conceal it.
They are completely different animals. Really depends on the role you plan on using it for. If it's Concealed Carry how do you dress?
The PPS is one of my favorite guns of all time due to the fact with trigger(dry fire) is lackluster and the ergos suck, but while your shooting it the ergos allow for perfect control and the trigger is quick and the group sizes are the best I've shot. It is a very instinctive gun to shoot.
That said the glock is a more practical choice if you can conceal it.
I'm almost positive that you're mixing up the G43 with something else. They're both subcompact single stack 9x19 pistols...
I have a PPS, it's a great gun. I should have a G43 next week. I'll post some comparison pics and range report once I have both in hand.
LibertyNeverDies
05-21-15, 21:15
You're right I was think the G26 like the title of the thread.
LibertyNeverDies
05-21-15, 21:25
Bringing this back from the dead.
G43 vs PPS? Anyone have both?
The G43 is smaller. I'm getting ready to buy one for pocket carry. Local shop still has a long wait list. There is no way I could pocket carry the PPS. I'm 6 foot 170 pounds and fairly slim and I wear fairly trim dress pants that are creased. From trying the G43 at the shop(one already claimed :() it concealed nicely and will work great with a good kydex pocket holster. It is the max size that will work though. If I could carry IWB I'd go PPS.
I can get a much better grip on the Walther with large backstrap.
The only detractor is that trigger guard magazine release. Fix that and the gun's golden.
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