View Full Version : The P08 Luger......art in steel.
This piece came from a the estate of a good friend. It will be sold, but that's not the point of this thread. In looking for specific information on this pistol, it just struck me that you'll never, ever see a semi automatic pistol made to this level of craftsmanship ever again.
The machine work is astounding, especially in a turn of the 20th Century setting.
From what I know right now...it's a very early P08, possibly first or second year production, with some Imperial German military unit marking on the front strap.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Album%202/Collection/Pistols/P1050419.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Album%202/Collection/Pistols/P1050421.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Album%202/Collection/Pistols/P1050423.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Album%202/Collection/Pistols/P1050424.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Album%202/Collection/Pistols/P1050425.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Album%202/Collection/Pistols/P1050426.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Album%202/Collection/Pistols/P1050451.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Album%202/Collection/Pistols/P1050455.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Album%202/Collection/Pistols/P1050456.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Album%202/Collection/Pistols/P1050436.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Album%202/Collection/Pistols/P1050437.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Album%202/Collection/Pistols/P1050418.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Album%202/Collection/Pistols/P1050432.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Album%202/Collection/Pistols/P1050433.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Album%202/Collection/Pistols/P1050435.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Album%202/Collection/Pistols/P1050458.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Album%202/Collection/Pistols/P1050457.jpg
Very nice. My dad brought one back from WWII and I still have it, amazing piece of engineering.
Thats a very nice firearm you have there. One day I will add one to my collection.
eflatlander
06-11-11, 22:11
Send some pics. to Robert Simson. Simson LTD. Galesburg ILL.
I agree. They are just elegant and it was actually my first gun ever.
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/8009/p10032762hq.jpg
http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/9840/p10032954aq.jpg
http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/6463/p1003880qm5.jpg
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/3931/00000000127.jpg
Very nice. My dad brought one back from WWII and I still have it, amazing piece of engineering.
I recommend you write down everything you know about it and the circumstances of it coming into your fathers possession, and a brief summary of your fathers military service. If your Dad is still around have him sign it and get it notarized. Otherwise you sign it and have it notarized.
This documentation will add significant value to the firearm as "captured" Lugers and veteran "bring backs" are more valuable than simple pre68 imports. If you pass it on to relatives such documentation may make future owners think twice before pawning it for a trip to Vegas.
If nothing else a future collector will appreciate the effort.
This is what I've gotten from some heavy hitter Luger collectors...
According to Jan Still's Weimar Lugers, your gun was made in 1928. It started out as an Alphabet DWM commercial (C/N commercial firing proofs) with a 7.65mm - 30 cal. barrel. It was put into military/police service and the barrel was immediately changed to 9mm and the military style numbering added.
And....
The grip strap marking is from the Police School at Sensburg that served the province of East Prussia (Ostpreußen). I can barely make out an earlier O beneath the S which is probably from the earlier marking P.O. (Polizeischule Ostpreußen) for the same school. The P.S. marking is a transitional marking for this school between that specified in 1922 (P.O.) and 1932 (PS.)
SeriousStudent
06-12-11, 01:01
Templar, please accept my sympathies on the passing of your friend.
Very nice pistol. I reluctantly passed on buying a decent Luger from AIM the other day. I know I will regret that soon.
Beautiful Luger, Templar. And excellent photos, thanks for posting them. Sorry to hear it's not as old as you first thought. I know the very first military P08s did not bear a date over the chamber (1908, 1909 and maybe 1910) so easy to confuse with a later commercial model. But it's still a wonderful pistol with amazing engineering and craftsmanship.
I have two P08s, one a 1913 DWM and the other a 1941 byf/Mauser. The Mauser is worth too much to shoot but the 98 year old DWM has mixed parts so I do shoot it. If we all are around in 2013, my son-in-law, grandson and I will all celebrate its 100th birthday in style! :D BTW, I've had that DWM since 1975 and put thousands of rounds through it with only one part breaking, the toggle axle pin which was an easy fix. Even with the broken pin the Luger continued firing and I only discovered it later when cleaning. These are not fragile guns.
Thanks for sharing Templar. Great post as usual.
Best Regards, Dane
I recommend you write down everything you know about it and the circumstances of it coming into your fathers possession, and a brief summary of your fathers military service. If your Dad is still around have him sign it and get it notarized. Otherwise you sign it and have it notarized.
This documentation will add significant value to the firearm as "captured" Lugers and veteran "bring backs" are more valuable than simple pre68 imports. If you pass it on to relatives such documentation may make future owners think twice before pawning it for a trip to Vegas.
If nothing else a future collector will appreciate the effort.
Sadly my dad passed away quite a few years ago so I don't know the full story. I will try to get some pics up in the next week or two (HVAC tech on call now). The holster is in perfect condition including spare mag and tool. I also had a P38 he brought back with holster in same condition but it was stolen.
Sadly my dad passed away quite a few years ago so I don't know the full story. I will try to get some pics up in the next week or two (HVAC tech on call now). The holster is in perfect condition including spare mag and tool. I also had a P38 he brought back with holster in same condition but it was stolen.
In that case you want to document it to the best of your ability and memory.
A friend and I are on a long term quest to purchase a decent shooter example of all the metal frame guns that strike our fancy. A lofty and pricey task but fun !!! One day, there wont be any metal/steel frame guns left! We both went the route of Glock, SW M&Ps etc to fill out the CCW/HD/ Tac needs now we are getting nostalgic and want some stuff from the past to take out and shoot occasionly and marvel at the craftmanship of them all! Beautiful Luger, such artistry in steel, never mind the history that it oozes from every surface!! ;)
It's cool to hear these stories.
My wife visits a WWII veteran (retired Navy pilot) who, last time I was there, brought out a WWI bring back that his father gave him; an Artillery Luger with buttstock/holster and matching magazines, 2 each.
It is not first or second year production - it has the stock lug which was introduced in 1913, IIRC. The lack of a date over the chamber leads me to believe it is commercial production, but the exposed numbers (military style) on the pictured parts does not follow commercial style, which would be "hidden". I do not see a safety sear which would be a dead ringer for a police gun, but not all police Lugers had them. The markings on the frontstrap of the grip appear to be unit markings which, if they are, will help track the history of the piece.
Nice piece and best of luck!
Amazing pistols ! Hard to picture any of the tupperware handguns of today being historical collectors items 75-100 years from now. Then again one never knows.
It was pretty cloudy today so the pics aren't as good as the first batch, but I field stripped the P.08 to show the machine work and condition.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Album%202/Collection/Pistols/P1050460.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Album%202/Collection/Pistols/P1050461.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Album%202/Collection/Pistols/P1050462.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Album%202/Collection/Pistols/P1050463.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Album%202/Collection/Pistols/P1050465.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Album%202/Collection/Pistols/P1050466.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Album%202/Collection/Pistols/P1050467.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Album%202/Collection/Pistols/P1050469.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Album%202/Collection/Pistols/P1050470.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Album%202/Collection/Pistols/P1050471.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Album%202/Collection/Pistols/P1050473.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Album%202/Collection/Pistols/P1050472-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Album%202/Collection/Pistols/P1050471-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Album%202/Collection/Pistols/P1050470-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Album%202/Collection/Pistols/P1050469-1.jpg
Thomas M-4
06-12-11, 18:39
Beautiful
I wonder how long it actually took to machine all the parts for one?
Beautiful
I wonder how long it actually took to machine all the parts for one?
DWM was turning one out every fifteen minutes during the great war.
What a beautiful handgun. Thanks for all the pics Templar!
Thomas M-4
06-13-11, 01:02
DWM was turning one out every fifteen minutes during the great war.
How many milling machines were they running ;)
RogerinTPA
06-13-11, 04:54
What a great piece indeed Templar. I was expecting the barrel to be shot out, but it's in very decent shape for it's age.
One thing you gotta love about the Luger is how it spits in BATF's face as far as legal definitions. The frame which is considered the firearm is inert without the upper. But the upper receiver which isn't a firearm will fire a round without "the firearm" attached. :p
Thanks for sharing. Amazing how far ahead of their time the Germans were when it came to machining things 80+ years ago.
Thanks for sharing. Amazing how far ahead of their time the Germans were when it came to machining things 80+ years ago.
Very true. But when it came to head to head against the US 1911 the Luger did come up short. Still love them anyway!
It would be closer to one luger every two to three minutes. DWM was turning out 700 lugers a day in 1915. War years production was around 750,000 lugers at DWM.
DWM was turning one out every fifteen minutes during the great war.
I thought it was 700 a week, guess I was wrong.
Thomas M-4
06-19-11, 12:42
Wow that is impressive numbers .
Templar,
You may want to check out the excellent luger reference “Lugers At Random” by Charles Kenyon Jr. From your photos and the description on page 180 and the black and white image on 181, it appears that you have a possible 1920 DMW Commercial model. Hope that helps.
FWIW, I've always wanted a luger but somehow fell short of the coin. Oh well...
Sorry to hear about your friend passing.
I have always wanted a Luger in good shooting order with shoulder stock.
I guess is that my want list started when I was shown a WWII bring back in perfect condition.
I am amazed at that someone isn't using CNC machines some place to make more lugers. I would think there would be a market for people like myself who what a good shooter.
... I have always wanted a Luger in good shooting order with shoulder stock.
I guess is that my want list started when I was shown a WWII bring back in perfect condition.
I am amazed at that someone isn't using CNC machines some place to make more lugers. I would think there would be a market for people like myself who what a good shooter.
Actually if you just want a shooter, for $600-800 you can find mismatched parts Lugers that work fine. You'd have the real thing instead of a knockoff that costs just as much. I bought 1913 DWM mutt back in 1976 for peanuts because it was rough looking and it's still running strong and reliable. Couldn't have run any better when it was brand new.
Thomas M-4
06-19-11, 20:03
Sorry to hear about your friend passing.
I have always wanted a Luger in good shooting order with shoulder stock.
I guess is that my want list started when I was shown a WWII bring back in perfect condition.
I am amazed at that someone isn't using CNC machines some place to make more lugers. I would think there would be a market for people like myself who what a good shooter.
Back many yrs ago I remember reading a magazine article about a company that was going to reproduce the Luger. For the life of me I cant remember the company's name or if it ever really happened.
The only concern would be that if it where to go back into production they would never be like the originals I have a hard time imaging that they would mill every part like the originals.
Back many yrs ago I remember reading a magazine article about a company that was going to reproduce the Luger. For the life of me I cant remember the company's name or if it ever really happened.
The only concern would be that if it where to go back into production they would never be like the originals I have a hard time imaging that they would mill every part like the originals.
Interarms brought some modern production Lugers into the States back in the 1970's. I believe there were two variants, and that at least one was made in Switzerland. The parts weren't interchangeable with a P.08.
GermanSynergy
06-20-11, 02:18
Gorgeous piece of Teutonic steel.
Moose-Knuckle
06-20-11, 04:36
In looking for specific information on this pistol, it just struck me that you'll never, ever see a semi automatic pistol made to this level of craftsmanship ever again.
Short of a custom 1911 from the capable hands of a true master. The fact that people back then could turn out the sheer volume that they did is amazing not to mention the level of craftsmanship.
How many milling machines were they running ;)
When BKIW (post-DWM) moved their P.08 production line to Mauser in 1930 it was around 800 milling machines. I have no info on size of war time production line, but I assume this was around that. But remember that there were second production line in Gewehrfabrik in Erfurt. This line was given to Simson in Sulh after war. I do not know size of this line, only that it was smaller than DWM one.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.