View Full Version : Ditching my Glock19 for a cz75 help needed
I have had a Glock 19as my carry weapon for many years and while it is idiot proof, reliable , and has a lot of firepower in a compact package, I am ditching mine.
The problem is that I cannot shoot straight with it. I will admit that part of the problem is lack of time for training, and part of it is the weapon itself. For some reason the Glock does not seem to point naturally for me. The only pistol that I seem to be able to shoot well with is the cz75. The cz has always felt like an extension of my hand and I can always shoot well with it. I know it is an old design and it has no rail for a light, but the cz is a pistol that makes me feel confident I can hit what I aim at.
Like I said there are several disadvantages in carrying a cz. First off, finding a holster for it is a PITA. I mostly carry openly inside my business so concealment is not much of an issue, but I absolutely must have retention. I thought about a SERPA but it turns out they are crap. I looked at Safariland and they do make several models that meet my requirements but I have not been able to find them in stock. I guess I will at some point . but this is the problem when carrying something that is not too popular.If I carried a Beretta, it would rain holsters for it, but for the cz, not so much.
Another issue is weight an size. The cz is both heavier and larger than the Glock, so it will not be as easy to conceal. Like I said, not a big issue as I mostly carry openly anyway. If I need to go elsewhere I always have a Ruger LCP that I put in my pocket when there is a need to be discrete. Might even switch that to an LCR instead.
The issue that would concern me most would be the lack of a rail on my cz. I know they make some with rails, but I am not buying another pistol. I might need to practice working it the old fashioned way with the flashlight on one hand and the pistol on the other.
Does anyone here carry a cz75? Any thoughts, ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Sure you can tell me to train/shoot more and I am aware that I need training, BUT time is an issue. I work 60 to 70 hours a week and my only day off from work is Sunday (and then not every Sunday) which means the only time I have to do my work at home and spend time with my son is on Sundays so time for shooting is EXTREMELY limited. Plus my wife does not drive so if shee needs to go anywhere on a Sunday forget shooting. Other than that feel free to tell me anything. I am listening and willing to learn.
I need to get you to the range.
I don't know of any good retention holsters for the CZ.
I'd carry concealed and not worry as much about retention.
F-Trooper05
06-13-11, 21:23
Getting a new gun to help you shoot better is like a getting a new pair of shoes to help you run faster. Training is what you need. No other way around it.
R3V3LATIONS
06-13-11, 21:28
I would just wait for the safariland holsters to be in stock, or if you need it reallly bad...you can just order through them directly. It will cost more than buying it from one of thier dealers, but if you need it now, probably worth looking into.
If above option is a no-go, just carry it concealed as templar mentioned.
Getting a new gun to help you shoot better is like a getting a new pair of shoes to help you run faster. Training is what you need. No other way around it.
I am not getting a new gun. I already own both of these. I am just switching what I carry. The cz feel much more natural in my hand as I can get a much better grip on it. And that is why I suspect I can shoot the better with the cz than with the glock.
Like I said, I know full well I need training. Time, NOT $ is the issue.
@ Templar - yes my friend, we need to get to the range and I appreciate all you do for me as well as your patience. In any caseI have about 800 rounds of 9mm ammo, so that should not be a problem.
I do have reasons for carrying openly in my store and I am well aware of the pros and cons of open carry but I still feel more comfortable carrying openly in the store.
Just saw it. Yes, I sure do!
Web Architect
06-13-11, 23:25
Crossbreed Holsters makes an SuperTuck for the CZ and some variants. I'm not familiar with the platform, but you can probably figure that part out. They may have something for OWB, but I didn't check.
railroader
06-13-11, 23:30
http://www.opticsplanet.net/safariland-568-custom-fit-for-revolvers-holster-stx-plain-black-right-hand-568-51-411.html I have this safariland holster and it fits good. I use it for pistol matches. It is adjustable. http://www.safariland.com/DutyGear/product.aspx?pid=568 Mark
Threat Solutions sells their UCR holster for the CZ.
http://www.threatsolutions.com/IWBindex.html
But I would recommend getting more trigger time with the Glock rather than settling for the CZ. I agree, the CZ fits my hand like a glove, but I've seen too many failures to ever trust one of the modern ones.
IMHO, ditching your Glock 19 for a CZ75 is a dumb idea.
You need to spend a day with someone who can tell you what you are doing wrong and how to correct it.
I really, really wanted a CZ75 back in the 80's when they weren't what you'd call "common". Now there's no way I'd take one.
A good friend of mine ran one for a while as his duty weapon and it was such a dismal failure he finally gave up. In fact it failed him in a three day pistol/shotgun class to the point that it was the last straw.
What LHS posted above does nothing further to endear me to the gun.
I had thought about a Kadet .22 as a suppressor host but would have to do a ton of research and hopefully get some first hand reviews from users before I'd likely consider even that CZ.
I don't want to dogpile, but I agree with most. My first handgun was a CZ75. It was a great gun, but I would never replace my Glock with it. You simply need to get some trigger time.
No crutch in the world is going to help you run a marathon.
You recognize that the reason why you don't shoot the G19 well, is lack of trigger time. Time is a precious commodity to you that you don't have much of. Not alot of people do, understandable constraints.
Work with what you are comfortable, the CZ75. You know it's advantages and dis-advantages. A CZ75 will ultimately do what a G19 will do, that is to shoot. (granted you properly maintain it). Since you find that the CZ75 shoots better than the G19, stick with it. In moments of high stress, you want your tools to work with you...not against you.
Who cares if a gun doesn't have rail, people have been fighting without them since the invention of firearms. So can you! It shouldn't be a requirement.
I would contact a custom holster maker to solve the holster issue.
To break it down for you...
G19- Durable, reliable, concealable however, you cant shoot well with it.
CZ- Not as concealable. However, it is a natural extension of your arm.
The choice is easy...
Given that you don't have time to train as much as you like, its not a excuse to stick with your g19 if you don't want to. Don't listen to others that say otherwise, work with what you are comfortable and understand every aspect of it.
When you do have some free time, GET SOLID TRAINING BEHIND THE G19!! Do everything you can to master the glock platform in your free time, the more platforms you know, the better off you are. In the mean time, carry your CZ.
P.S. I think the G19 is superior to the CZ in every way, however it does not change the fact that YOU are more comfortable with the CZ.
The CZ is a great pistol as good as a Glock (probably better than a 4th gen). Optics Planet usually has a large supply of Safariland. Blade Tech also offers a retention holster for the CZ.
xarmyguy77
06-14-11, 06:41
I also dont have a lot of time for practice shooting. The easiest way to get training in with your g19 is dryfire drills. You should run dryfire drills every night. If you have an iphone surefire has a great app for a par timer. Anyway 10 mins a night to start is all it takes. And yes its a pain to have to rack the slide everytime but thats the price you pay for using a glock. You should be practicing reloads as well as multiple target aquisition and transitions. If you are not shooting the glock well is it the sights? Are you using the stock plastic white outline sights? For next to nothing you can get a new set of sights to install in virtually any style you want. Lastly you were talking about grip angle being awkward. Many people change the profile of their Glock grips by cutting off finger grooves on 3rd gens and grinding off hump on bottom rear of grip. Finish the job with a nice stippling job using a simple wood burner. Search the forum for examples.
You can find a dryfire program and targets at
http://www.benstoeger.com
hopefully all of this helps you, if not im in the market for another g19
I'd personally run the CZ-75.
The G19 is the jack-of-all-trades, but that doesn't mean its the master of them all. If you know you shoot a CZ-75 better, know you are downgrading, and can accept everything that goes along with it.... I see nothing wrong with using the CZ. In fact, I'd really ditch the G19 if you are going to stick to a DA/SA firearm & go all CZ or something like H&K/FN for the sake of system compatibility.
This is my perspective after being in your shoes. I can not to this day shoot a G19 very well. I can shoot a G17 pretty good, but I shoot the Beretta 92FS/M9 the best.
I made the decision that I would simply stick to what is best for me which is the 92FS/M9. I know that maintenance has to be performed more often, I have a larger & heavier gun, and its not as durable as a Glock. However, I have a gun that I can always shoot accurately, and I feel beyond confident in it. In fact, my G17 is pretty close to going on the chopping block for another M9.
The Glock 17/19 are probably the 2 best "off the rack" handguns you can buy. However, that doesn't mean they will work for everyone. Pick a platform that YOU like, learn everything you can about it, and stick to it.
Failure2Stop
06-14-11, 09:28
Trading proven effectiveness for novelty rarely works out to the benefit of the shooter.
Hopefully you will find yourself in the minority here.
Magic_Salad0892
06-14-11, 09:28
The CZ is a great pistol as good as a Glock (probably better than a 4th gen).
Not trying to pick a fight or anything, but why's that?...
If you can't shoot a G19 worth shit, sell it and buy a DA/SA gun.
I'd stay away from the CZ though.
I've had a lot of CZs over the years. Most of them had some sort mechanical problem that prevented them from running as well as my Glocks, Sigs, or H&Ks. Broken slide stops, broken trigger springs, broken extractors, .....etc. These are critical failures that will disable your pistol in a gun fight, and these failures happen suddenly without any predictability.
Based on my experiences, I would never trust a CZ as much as the others I mentioned in a defensive role. Yes, the CZs have great ergonomics, but top priority in selecting defensive equipment is reliability and durability. When I was first handed a Sig P228 in 1997 to use as a duty pistol.......I hated the feel of it, and I did not shoot it well. However, after some range time, dry fire sessions, and drills, I could outshoot almost all of my co-workers left and right handed.
The most sound decision is to select your weaponry based on reliability and durability. Dedicate training time to that weapon and forsake using all others for a while. The muscle memory and the skill will come.
I have a CZ that I bought in Germany back in 87. I've put thousands of rounds through it and have never had a problem. I also shoot it very well. I have not been through a class with it though and have not put more than 100 - 200 rounds through it at a time. So I can say how wells it holds up under heavy volumes of fire. Yes it is heavy and bigger than the G19. If you shoot it well and are that much more confident with it than your G19 then carry it and shoot it. With all of that being said, I love my CZ but I think there are better options out there. I would search for a more viable option in the mean time. Try a M&P 9mm and see how that works for you. I like the Glocks but I like my M&P45 a lot more.
So, run your CZ and search for a better option if you feel you need to.
Cz a novelty? not to me, i've owned cz pistols since october 2001. I took my chp class with a cz and did extremely well in the shooting part. Please elaborate if you will on why it is a novelty.
As to stay away from the cz....why? I've never heard anything bad about cz. What have I missed.
Btw, my current cz75 is a cz75bd police if that helps. Thanks to all for the input.
Doc Safari
06-14-11, 10:00
No crutch in the world is going to help you run a marathon.
I am stealing that one....:D
The Glock can be a beast to shoot. Fat grips, long sort-of two stage trigger.
But that's why you practice. There is no substitute for practice.
Trading proven effectiveness for novelty rarely works out to the benefit of the shooter.
Novelty? That is a bit extreme, especially when there are roughly 20 clones of the CZ-75. The CZ-75 is a very successful design.
Now, that is not saying it is better than a Glock, and I doubt anyone would argue that. However, a novelty it is not. A H&K P7 or Steyr GB a novelty.
Very interesting read. I will take my cz to the range soon, and I will put as many rounds as I can through it. I will report on that. I need to purchase much more 9mm ammo for torture tests. I may nit end up with a cz, but the Glock needs to go. The search begins....yet again.....sigh....
We'll get you to the range.
xarmyguy77
06-14-11, 10:58
Hell I like all my Rugers and shoot them very well but I dont use them for carry or home defense. My wife uses my sp101 though with .38spl loads. Anyway I did not mind the learning curve with the glock and after much training and competitive matches its like an extension of my body. It certainly didnt start that way. But to each his own, you have to use what you are comfortable with and can trust! Lastly just cause you can shoot 100 rounds every 6 months fairly accurately does not mean you are proficient with any weapon system. Really without putting it through its paces you dont really know if its reliable. Like I said practice everyday. Do dryfire drills and get to the range. Try shooting a local uspsa or idpa match to see where you really stand under stress also.
X, given where your store is and it's clientelle, I'd be open carrying a Colt 6933 or Daniel Defense Mk.18.
:ph34r:
Hogsgunwild
06-14-11, 14:37
I have owned seven Glocks since 1991. I was very happy with my ability to shoot accurately with my G20 and G35 but was never satisfied with my own ability to shoot the G23 or G19 accurately.
Even the two G27s that I owned I was happy with my ability with them. The 19/23 was always the Glock that I wanted to use but even when trying to compare my G23 to my HK P2000 .40S&W at the range yesterday, my fliers gave me typical group sizes of about ten inches with the Glock and my P2000 was a very consistent and satisfying four to five inches at twenty five yards. The only other gun in a similar size (profile wise) that I own that is that accurate is a Nighthawk T3 1911 (a CCO).
My point is that although the proper training could be all or part of your issues (mine too) but I have come to believe that the ergonomics of the Glock 19/23s frame and trigger are just wrong for my hand and fingers and I am tired of fighting it. After experiencing H&Ks, there is no reason for me to go back to a Glock.
I recently sold my only CZ, a SP-01 Shadow, Custom Shop Model. It shot well but it's 25 yard accuracy was not close to that of any H&K
that I have shot and the HKs were less expensive than this model (way lighter as well).
Someone mentioned not trusting the CZ. After I sold mine the purchaser found a problem that I was not aware of while he pulled the trigger extremely slowly in DA mode (I never use the DA mode). We took care of the problem (CZ Custom Shop fixed it for no charge) but the gun had less than 1k rounds of 9MM through it at the time.
Sorry to ramble but I have been along a bit of the op's path and hope any of this can help. If you can pony-up for a HK P2000, you cannot go wrong there.
I will start out by saying I don't carry on a regular basis and I have never had to defend myself with a hand gun. Glocks have a proven history of reliability. I have heard of issues with CZs but I have never had a problem with mine. Reliability must be taken into consideration if your life is on the line.
I own a G19 (Gen 3) and a CZ75. I can hit the target all day long with the CZ and I am horrible with the Glock. The CZ feels good, points good, shoots good. The Glock feels uncomfortable in my hand and I am not very accurate with it. If I had to pick between the two based on which shoots the best, it would clearly be the CZ.
Having come from a CZ clone (Jericho 941 .45 acp Frame safety) I would look at the M&P in either the .40 or 45 acp with the small back strap. If you go to the store ask them to switch it out from medium to small.
X, given where your store is and it's clientelle, I'd be open carrying a Colt 6933 or Daniel Defense Mk.18.
:ph34r:
That thought has crossed my mind....more than once.
Failure2Stop
06-14-11, 19:51
Novelty? That is a bit extreme, especially when there are roughly 20 clones of the CZ-75. The CZ-75 is a very successful design.
It's a saying.
Maybe it's a bit harsh, but there's truth in it.
I carry a CZ75BD or a P01 in a Falco IT34 thumbreak holster with absolutely no worry at all. I used to carry a M&P but I found that I could shoot much better with either of my CZs. While the durability may not be a good as an older Glock(I'm still not sold on the Gen4), I have never had a malfunction out of my P01 but I do take the care to keep it very well lubed, expecially the trigger return spring. The 75BD is too young to tell yet with only 500 rounds down it. There seems be be evidence that the failure rate is lower with an oiled spring but I do not have firm numbers to establish this.
Ok, I re-read the entire blog about the issues with the cz. Apart from a lot of bruised egos I kind of noticed a few things. From what I gather, and please correct me if I am wrong the main issue would be weak/worn out springs. Possibly bad extractors, and perhaps some weird magazine isssues when using non-standard/modified magazines, or aftermarket magazines.
From personal experience magazines can be a major problem for some otherwise fine weapons. I also seem to recall that the Berettas issued by the army in Iraq had a ton of issues which were related to crappy lowest bidder magazines, and once new proper magazines were procured most of the issues went away. I plan to use only cz factory magazines so this might not be an issue...hopefully.
As for the spring situation, I figure springs walways wear out eventually anyway. That seems to be a more of a maintenance issue than a design flaw or QC matter. Replace your springs regularly and you should have no problems...am I wrong here?
As to the extractor issue I don't know what to say about that.
Someone said that it had too much recoil. Recoil is often subjective, what may feel like excesive recoil to someone might be perfectly acceptable to someone else. I traded my Glock 23 for a Glock 19 because I thought the recoil of the .40 cal was excessive.
I tend to conclude that if I properly maintain my cz75BD, by replacing the spring regularly, cleaning it properly, and practicing with it, it should be an acceptable carry weapon at least until I can procure something that fits my needs better.
Am I wrong in my assesment here? What am I missing?
While the Glock 19 is an excellent weapon with a well deserved reputation for reliability, all the reliability in the world will not help me if I cannot shoot straight with it. On the other hand all the ergonomics and natural pointing characteristics will not help me if the weapon cannot operate properly.
There have been issues with the extractors, issues with the slide stops breaking, issues with reliability.
I have a pre-B CZ-75 that was built in 1986, but I consider it a collectable/range toy. The older guns built before privatization were better built but not as well finished as later guns.
Will all modern CZ's crap out? No. Is there a higher chance than there should be that they will shit the bed when you absolutely don't need it to? Yes.
Everything works great, until it doesn't.
I see. It is a risk with any handgun you carry, although I get the point, some are riskier than others.
Ok, I re-read the entire blog .... the main issue would be weak/worn out springs. Possibly bad extractors, and perhaps some weird magazine isssues when using non-standard/modified magazines, or aftermarket magazines.
The 9mm CZs run quite well. Its when you stray into other calibers that problems seem to be more frequent.
Trigger return springs seem to be one failure point; Beretta 92s have a similar problem. Replacing that spring in a CZ requires a punch and probably a replacement trigger pin. It makes PM more involved.
As far as magazines are concerned, MecGar makes very good magazines for the CZ-75, unless you have an old frame. The 16rd mags and the 19rd mags have been excellent through about 4k rounds with my SP-01.
Am I wrong in my assesment here? What am I missing?
While the Glock 19 is an excellent weapon with a well deserved reputation for reliability, all the reliability in the world will not help me if I cannot shoot straight with it. On the other hand all the ergonomics and natural pointing characteristics will not help me if the weapon cannot operate properly.
I wouldn't underestimate the benefit of having a pistol that points naturally for you. Given your available choices, the CZ may be the better gun for you at the moment.
You mentioned you don't get much range time. How much have you shot the CZ??
Try to iron out the trouble you have with the G-19, then run it versus the CZ and see which one comes out on top.
Reassess as necessary.
I do not know how many rounds I have on rhe cz as I do not generally keep track of how many rounds I fire. I can tell you in all honesty that it is probably a pathetic figure.
When I bought my G19 I was very happy with it and it felt good though never as good as th cz. It is lately, that it has not been feeling right at all. My plan was to take both of these weapons to the range and fire several hundred rounds through each and see how I do.
I know Templar will help me at the range, and hopefully I can get squared away somehow. I will also try to keep a log on each of my weapons so as to keep track of shots fired as well as failures and maintenance.
When I do get to the range I plan on starting from scratch as if I was completely new to these pistols. I think this is the best way to get rid of bad habits I may have picked up over the years.
The 9mm CZs run quite well. Its when you stray into other calibers that problems seem to be more frequent.
The CZ that failed here is a 9mm. It was all extractor related issues.
It's a saying.
Maybe it's a bit harsh, but there's truth in it.
Ehh, maybe. One could say the Hi-Power is a novelty here in the US despite it's world wide popularity.
Regardless, I think that while training generally is the answer, that doesn't mean the OP HAS to go with the G19. There are several other choices besides the G19 that would be perfectly fine like the M&P, P30 etc.
Failure2Stop
06-15-11, 07:22
Ehh, maybe. One could say the Hi-Power is a novelty here in the US despite it's world wide popularity.
Regardless, I think that while training generally is the answer, that doesn't mean the OP HAS to go with the G19. There are several other choices besides the G19 that would be perfectly fine like the M&P, P30 etc.
I agree.
I'd get an Advantage Arms 22LR conversion kit for your Glock. That will improve your pistol shooting, dollar for dollar, and time involved, more than anything else. The lack of recoil actually helps to REALLY fine tune your trigger press, grip, etc. It will also help your "coach" to see what's going on with your hands and fingers more easily than a 9mm.
It did wonders for my pistol shooting, and they hold their value well should you eventually decide to sell it.
legumeofterror
06-15-11, 13:08
I carry a CZ75B, and have not had a failure of any kind related to the firearm. The only issue I have had was a squib. They require a bit more diligence than Glocks, but they are well built reliable handguns. I recently broke 3,500 rounds with mine, and am going to replace my slide stop and a few springs in another few thousand. Acting like that sort of maintenance relegates a handgun to a "novelty", especially one being used in civilian carry capacity, is rather unreasonable.
I have a '91 pre-B model 75. I bought it as a general shooter at a good price. In '04 I sent it to Angus Hobdell to be turned into a SA only competition gun. In this arena it excels. Faultlessly reliable since I got it I have replaced springs and worn out one sear. I shoot it better than any other pistol I have. When going fast a miss with another weapon is in the edge of the paper with my 75. I have a spare slide stop and other spare parts and have never needed them.
I would never carry it, not just because of the light trigger. It is to heavy, worn and old. I use a HK P-30 for carry and training. I put a lot of rounds through my fav pistols and I trust the reliability and durability of my HK with defense loads for this purpose
An Undocumented Worker
06-15-11, 18:07
I've been carrying a CZ 75b for two years now. I've been using a don hume IWB holst that uses a belt clip. The holster was made for some other gun, but the CZ fit it ok. When I got the holster home I soaked it in hot water, wrapped the CZ in clingwrap and stuck it in the holster and molded the holster to the CZ.
After shaping it how I wanted it, I left it out in the high noon sun to bake the moisture out of the soaked holster. When done baking in the sun for a few hours I had a holster perfectly molded to my 75b and it retained it's shape with the gun drawn.
If ya mess up the molding process or the holster softens up after months of use just repeat the soaking/drying process and it's as good as new.
With this holster and a good belt, carrying and concealing the 75b is no problem, I've carried everywhere I legally could every day, and no seems to have noticed. There are other better holster out there but it seems they need to be custom ordered.
I've got my 75B and a PCR (compact alloy 75b with decocker) both have over 2500 rounds through them. The pcr didn't like one batch of remington umc that had problems with bullet setback upon chambering. The 75b didn't like Blazer aluminum, but that was fixed with a wolff extractor spring, (you need to fit the spring by grinding the ends of the wolff spring flat or you wont get enough extractor travel) Other than those two issues I havn't had any other failures with either gun. I don't use UMC any more and the 75B will extract blazer aluminum and tula just fine now.
I will say the PCR is a bit more comfortable for all day carry due to it's lighter wieght, however the even though the 75b is larger, it seems easier to conceal because it is a little bit thinner, especially towards the muzzle. Both are carried IWB at 3:00 on the hip with a foreward cant to the holster.
An Undocumented Worker
06-15-11, 18:30
Ok, I re-read the entire blog about the issues with the cz. Apart from a lot of bruised egos I kind of noticed a few things. From what I gather, and please correct me if I am wrong the main issue would be weak/worn out springs. Possibly bad extractors, and perhaps some weird magazine isssues when using non-standard/modified magazines, or aftermarket magazines.
From personal experience magazines can be a major problem for some otherwise fine weapons. I also seem to recall that the Berettas issued by the army in Iraq had a ton of issues which were related to crappy lowest bidder magazines, and once new proper magazines were procured most of the issues went away. I plan to use only cz factory magazines so this might not be an issue...hopefully.
As for the spring situation, I figure springs walways wear out eventually anyway. That seems to be a more of a maintenance issue than a design flaw or QC matter. Replace your springs regularly and you should have no problems...am I wrong here?
As to the extractor issue I don't know what to say about that.
Someone said that it had too much recoil. Recoil is often subjective, what may feel like excesive recoil to someone might be perfectly acceptable to someone else. I traded my Glock 23 for a Glock 19 because I thought the recoil of the .40 cal was excessive.
I tend to conclude that if I properly maintain my cz75BD, by replacing the spring regularly, cleaning it properly, and practicing with it, it should be an acceptable carry weapon at least until I can procure something that fits my needs better.
Am I wrong in my assesment here? What am I missing?
While the Glock 19 is an excellent weapon with a well deserved reputation for reliability, all the reliability in the world will not help me if I cannot shoot straight with it. On the other hand all the ergonomics and natural pointing characteristics will not help me if the weapon cannot operate properly.
One thing I noticed is the factory recoil spring wears out at around 2,000 rounds. I got 2 replacement springs from CZ usa, they seem to be made differently and the one I am currently using has taken less set than the factory spring.
The extractor issues that people have are usually from weak extractor springs, wolff makes an extrapower extractor spring, but for my gun I had to use a dremel and grind the ends to shorten the overal lenght of spring and to make the ends flat on the wolff spring. In stock aftermarket form of the Wolff extra power extractor spring it would not allow full travel of the extractor. I have also found CZ USA's customer service to be outstanding when ordering parts (mags, springs, night sights, etc), and most parts can be ordered online. I have had to send in my Kadet Kit (factory 22lr conversion upper) for stove piping, they took care of it with no fuss.
Slide stop breakage, I have not experienced, I have read that one person had repeated problems with it, and CZ ended up replacing the gun as the channel the slidestop resided in was not square to the gun. Nor have I experienced any parts breakage on my CZ's, just tired springs. You know the recoil spring is ready for replacement when you feel the gun feeding rounds a bit slower than normal.
The CZ that failed here is a 9mm. It was all extractor related issues.
I'm not discounting your experience.
I have a horror story about a CZ97 too but the 75s I've seen and shot have been remarkably good.
The CZ design does have a few warts but, in 9mm particularly, they do well. The lockwork is very complex (point of concern) and the way CZ builds them they frequently require work to get the most out of it.
legumeofterror
06-15-11, 20:23
I'm not discounting your experience.
I have a horror story about a CZ97 too but the 75s I've seen and shot have been remarkably good.
The CZ design does have a few warts but, in 9mm particularly, they do well. The lockwork is very complex (point of concern) and the way CZ builds them they frequently require work to get the most out of it.
The Omega models are significantly less complex. They are not readily available in the US yet.
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a248/LegumeOfTerror/75b/IMG_4012.jpg
I want to believe....
The omega looks interesting...are they all going to be like that now?
legumeofterror
06-15-11, 21:28
I want to believe....
The omega looks interesting...are they all going to be like that now?
I do not know. They make the both CZ75B Omega and regular 75B right now. They also have the P07 and P02 with the Omega trigger parts. There are only ~2000 of 75B Omegas over here. The Omega also has the frame enhancements they developed for the P01.
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a248/LegumeOfTerror/75b/IMG_4006.jpg
FWIW, there was/is a huge stink about the Omega trigger system in the 75B. Tons of issues even though it was simplified trigger system.
I'll have to dig it up since its been awhile, and I'm not into CZs anymore.
An Undocumented Worker
06-16-11, 07:26
FWIW, there was/is a huge stink about the Omega trigger system in the 75B. Tons of issues even though it was simplified trigger system.
I'll have to dig it up since its been awhile, and I'm not into CZs anymore.
Yes I have heard about these, mostly certain mags touching the trigger bar and causing issues.
I personally would take the standard 75b trigger group over the omega. If you know what you are doing you can tune the trigger on the 75B to be most excelent. It is however tedious and time consuming work.
legumeofterror
06-16-11, 09:52
FWIW, there was/is a huge stink about the Omega trigger system in the 75B. Tons of issues even though it was simplified trigger system.
I'll have to dig it up since its been awhile, and I'm not into CZs anymore.
Out of spec mags like MEc-gar 17 round ones are wider at the top and interfere with the transfer bar spring. OEM/MEcgar 16 round mags don't do this. If that means "tons of issues" then sure.
The DA pull on the Omega is signifigantly better.
I shoot a Glock 17 better than the 19 because I have big hands and prefer a full size grip. The CZ 75 is quite a bit bigger than the 19. Have you tried a Glock 17? It might be just enough to make you feel more comfortable with a Glock.
The G17 is something I might consider in the future. I really like the Glock design and it's reliability, but right now I would like to try something different. Because of the issues discussed here with the cz75 I have made arrangements to procure a Beretta 92FS. I think I would like to try the HK P30 LEM, but that will have to wait.
Thomas M-4
06-18-11, 15:44
The G17 is something I might consider in the future. I really like the Glock design and it's reliability, but right now I would like to try something different. Because of the issues discussed here with the cz75 I have made arrangements to procure a Beretta 92FS. I think I would like to try the HK P30 LEM, but that will have to wait.
If you hate the ergo's of a block oops mean a glock just get a S&W M&P.
The pointablity of it is much closer to the CZ.
I too like the CZ ergo I also enjoy the M&P also.
UPDATE:
I went to the range with Templar today and we did some retraining with the Glock 19. We did about three hours of basics and I seem to have improved a lot with the Glock. Looks like my rear sight needs to be adjusted slightly becasue I keep shooting fairly decent groups with it but always to the left. We know it's not just me becasue it was shooting a bit to the left for Templar as well. It's amazing what a little range time with someone who knows what he's doing can do for your shooting.
With that being said, I still find it difficult to get a good grip on the Glock. I will continue to train and practice with it before I take any further action in terms of replacing it.
If they only made a Glock with a cz grip all would be perfect in the universe.
Magic_Salad0892
06-20-11, 02:48
UPDATE:
I went to the range with Templar today and we did some retraining with the Glock 19. We did about three hours of basics and I seem to have improved a lot with the Glock. Looks like my rear sight needs to be adjusted slightly becasue I keep shooting fairly decent groups with it but always to the left. We know it's not just me becasue it was shooting a bit to the left for Templar as well. It's amazing what a little range time with someone who knows what he's doing can do for your shooting.
With that being said, I still find it difficult to get a good grip on the Glock. I will continue to train and practice with it before I take any further action in terms of replacing it.
If they only made a Glock with a cz grip all would be perfect in the universe.
If a Glock is shooting to the side in either direction the slide lock could be effecting barrel lockup. You might want to look at it.
Failure2Stop
06-20-11, 10:02
UPDATE:
I think one of my new mantras regarding pistols is going to be:
Buy a Glock 17 or 19, attend at least two pistol courses, and shoot at least 2,000 rounds of ammo after the courses before even thinking about committing to another platform.
Good advise. Wish I had learned that earlier.....would have saved me a lot of grief.
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