View Full Version : New Bushmaster M4 type carbines
Well we received our 14 new Bushmasters at the Dept yesterday and we put a min of 2 cases of ammo thru each one to ensure reliability and POA/POI. Our last shipment were a mix of Colts LE carbines and LMTs and not one of them after cleaning and lubing properly could go more than 40-50 rounds withot hanging up one way or another. One 6520's bolt sheared in half! Surprised the heck outta me as I thought the big money names were better rifles! The Bushmasters we have totally ran off and left the other branded carbines.
What happened? Bushmaster absorbed by another company?
LowSpeed_HighDrag
06-14-11, 12:17
do you have any proof any claims you make here? Documented evidence? Photos of a sheared colt bolt?
Two cases of ammo thru each one? Cases?
You a medic? What kind of department?
The Dumb Gun Collector
06-14-11, 12:23
This thread smells.
do you have any proof any claims you make here? Documented evidence? Photos of a sheared colt bolt?
Why would you assume that I am not being honest?
When/if the rangemaster decides to release the report to open channels I will get a copy and post it.
Two cases of ammo thru each one? Cases?
You a medic? What kind of department?
Sheriff's Department. Tossed my paramedic title first chance I could.
This thread smells.
Sorry, it was the baked beans I had last night. Enven makes me tear up.
Slightly off-topic: does LMT still not parkerize under the FSB?
My personal one isn't. I had it sent to adco for a pencil barrel profile done and they said it wasn't.
I think that Bushmaster makes a very servicable weapon. However...
I'm trying to fathom "testing" a weapon w/ two cases (2000rds?) of ammo.
I imagine that the department does not buy wolf 5.56mm either?
Slightly off-topic: does LMT still not parkerize under the FSB?
Not to hijack the thread, but LMT advertises that they do parkerize under the FSB. I haven't disassembled my upper to check though.
Why would you assume that I am not being honest?
Not saying you're being dishonest but avoiding the Colt/LMT issues you describe, here is the statement I'm having a problem with
Well we received our 14 new Bushmasters at the Dept yesterday and we put a min of 2 cases of ammo thru each one to ensure reliability and POA/POI.
Your dept shot 28,000 rnds of ammo since yesterday:confused:
lethal dose
06-14-11, 12:33
I am not surprised by your claims that the bushmasters ran through the ammo they did (assuming you're talking about a case being 100 rounds)... personally, I usually go 600-700 rounds before I call a service weapon reliable. I AM, however, quite surprised by your claims of the subpar LMT and colt batches of rifles, considering my experiences (and many others') have been exactly the opposite... even upwards of 10k rounds through training rifles manufactured by LMT and colt. I await the aforementioned documentation. Good luck with the bushmasters... make sure everything is staked properly and all is in spec. Assuming they don't see a high round count like most agencies, they should be fine.
My cat sense is detecting a drive-by trolling in progress.
old grunt usmc
06-14-11, 12:37
They must have a big ammo budget for that kind of testing.lol .But i can't see testing a service weapon with 2,000 rds.
Your dept shot 28,000 rnds of ammo since yesterday:confused:
Yep, going to have to thow the flag on this one. At $300 dollars per 1 thousand rounds that would be a lot of money (especially when most most SO's are cutting cost's).
C4
Where is the popcorn eating emoticon when you need it???
Not saying you're being dishonest but avoiding the Colt/LMT issues you describe, here is the statement I'm having a problem with
Your dept shot 28,000 rnds of ammo since yesterday:confused:
14 of us shooting all day from 0700 till around 1800. We do have select fire and we did naturally play with that a bit.
Well we received our 14 new Bushmasters at the Dept yesterday and we put a min of 2 cases of ammo thru each one to ensure reliability and POA/POI. Our last shipment were a mix of Colts LE carbines and LMTs and not one of them after cleaning and lubing properly could go more than 40-50 rounds withot hanging up one way or another. One 6520's bolt sheared in half! Surprised the heck outta me as I thought the big money names were better rifles! The Bushmasters we have totally ran off and left the other branded carbines.
What happened? Bushmaster absorbed by another company?
No, BM has not changed anything or been acquired by a company that know what they are doing. With tha said, it is possible to get 14 BM's, shoot them each one for two-thousand rounds and not have a problem.
It is also possible to break a bolt (any companies bolt) in 300rds (products made by man are prone to failure).
My issues with your comments are how you described the malfunctions with the Colt and LMT's. You used the term "hanging up." This does not tell us anything. The issue could most likely be directly due to a poor magazine.
When describing a malfunciton, please use the corret terms (FTE, FTF, etc).
C4
old grunt usmc
06-14-11, 12:50
And if they do......I wanna help test......lol....lots of shooting time....lol
I am not surprised by your claims that the bushmasters ran through the ammo they did (assuming you're talking about a case being 100 rounds)... personally, I usually go 600-700 rounds before I call a service weapon reliable. I AM, however, quite surprised by your claims of the subpar LMT and colt batches of rifles, considering my experiences (and many others') have been exactly the opposite... even upwards of 10k rounds through training rifles manufactured by LMT and colt. I await the aforementioned documentation. Good luck with the bushmasters... make sure everything is staked properly and all is in spec. Assuming they don't see a high round count like most agencies, they should be fine.
LMTs were 2 personally owned rifles, and one of the owners could break an anvil, so not surprised there.
Colts were anywhere between 4 to 10 years old Dept purchase.
14 of us shooting all day from 0700 till around 1800. We do have select fire and we did naturally play with that a bit.
In training courses, the instructor stops training at or around 500rds as the brain is usually unable to retain or perform to a high level. So firing 2,000rds is well questionable (sorry).
C4
They must have a big ammo budget for that kind of testing.lol .But i can't see testing a service weapon with 2,000 rds.
1000 rnds. 500rnd case M-193 LC. US Gov supplied with grants. No cost to us.
Headstamped 80s and 90s
1000 rnds. 500rnd case M-193 LC. US Gov supplied with grants. No cost to us.
Headstamped 80s and 90s
Ah. 500rd cases makes more sense.
C4
old grunt usmc
06-14-11, 12:57
I was just wondering that,because just shooting a couple hrs at a slow pace gets me tired...lol
No, BM has not changed anything or been acquired by a company that know what they are doing. With tha said, it is possible to get 14 BM's, shoot them each one for two-thousand rounds and not have a problem.
It is also possible to break a bolt (any companies bolt) in 300rds (products made by man are prone to failure).
My issues with your comments are how you described the malfunctions with the Colt and LMT's. You used the term "hanging up." This does not tell us anything. The issue could most likely be directly due to a poor magazine.
When describing a malfunciton, please use the corret terms (FTE, FTF, etc).
C4
FTE, Fail to fully seat, stove pipes, double feeds, Running out of POA/POI, bolt binding halfway rear. (wet with CLP)
Yep, going to have to thow the flag on this one. At $300 dollars per 1 thousand rounds that would be a lot of money (especially when most most SO's are cutting cost's).
C4
Remember the ammo wasn't purchased by us.
Wasn't just training, fun time was in it too, now.
lethal dose
06-14-11, 13:03
14 of us shooting all day from 0700 till around 1800. We do have select fire and we did naturally play with that a bit.
You just dug yourself deeper. This thread is pointless. What exactly were/are you trying to prove?
lethal dose
06-14-11, 13:04
14 of us shooting all day from 0700 till around 1800. We do have select fire and we did naturally play with that a bit.
You just dug yourself deeper. This thread is pointless. What exactly were/are you trying to prove? I knew better then to open a thread about BM, much less reply to one. I am a small man.
FTE, Fail to fully seat, stove pipes, double feeds, Running out of POA/POI, bolt binding halfway rear. (wet with CLP)
Most of those malfunctions sound like a mag or ammo issue (especially if steel cased ammo had been shot prior and then gone to brass ammo).
Running out elevation or windage adjustments for a 25yd/50yd or 100yd zero is nearly impossible.
There might be a blown primer in either the gas key or inside the gun somewhere (FYI).
CLP is a horrible lube. Switch to something better (10/30 motor oil, etc).
C4
My cat sense is detecting a drive-by trolling in progress.
Meow!
Wasn't just training, fun time was in it too, now.
I hate to throw stones, but that ammo was purchased by US, the tax payers. I am sure the grant was given so that you would use the ammo for training (to become better shooters so that you could better protect civy's). To waste it by doing mag dumps (for fun) is just about worthless.
Much fail going on here.
C4
Most of those malfunctions sound like a mag or ammo issue (especially if steel cased ammo had been shot prior and then gone to brass ammo).
Running out elevation or windage adjustments for a 25yd/50yd or 100yd zero is nearly impossible.
There might be a blown primer in either the gas key or inside the gun somewhere (FYI).
CLP is a horrible lube. Switch to something better (10/30 motor oil, etc).
C4
Motor oil? Never thought of that.
Could be mags. They were a mix of Colt, GI and Pmags. We got all new mags with the new rifles so that could very well be it.
You just dug yourself deeper. This thread is pointless. What exactly were/are you trying to prove? I knew better then to open a thread about BM, much less reply to one. I am a small man.
Nothing to prove, was just surprised by Bushmaster. I thought we were gonna have problems with them but I had to admit I was wrong.
I hate to throw stones, but that ammo was purchased by US, the tax payers. I am sure the grant was given so that you would use the ammo for training (to become better shooters so that you could better protect civy's). To waste it by doing mag dumps (for fun) is just about worthless.
Much fail going on here.
C4
Given to us for training, testing new rifles and practice. Other ammo is issued to protect citizens. Full auto fire shows that it is useless in urban LE so in a sense it was training!
lethal dose
06-14-11, 13:17
I think you have something to pawn in the EE and are looking to up your post count. Honestly, nothing personal... I believe the bushy claims... but to have problems with almost every issued LMT and colt... Fooey... even with some bad mags. Oh well, what's done is done. Also, ammo dumps on fa is immature. You were not using the ammo for its intended purpose, imho. Doing it to find out if fa is suitable in an urban environment is just stupid. Be safe.
I think you have something to pawn in the EE and are looking to up your post count. Honestly, nothing personal... I believe the bushy claims... but to have problems with almost every issued LMT and colt... Fooey... even with some bad mags. Oh well, what's done is done. Also, ammo dumps on fa is immature. You were not using the ammo for its intended purpose, imho. Doing it to find out if fa is suitable in an urban environment is just stupid. Be safe.
We do ammo dumps because we can. It is fun and any number of people here would do the same if they had a chance to.
Look, Im sorry that your favorite company didn't fare that well, I honestly thought after reading here Bushmaster would shit out on us but they didn't.
I am passing along what I thought was info yall may have been interested in but it is sounding like a bunch of 14yo gamers who are mad because their favorite toy maker put out a lemon or two.
I gain nothing by passing this info along so I have no reason to deliberately decieve you.
Peace out, dudes.
Enough.
OP got a temporary break for his performance in this thread.
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