View Full Version : Muzzle Device Recommendations
I have discussed this a little bit on another board but wanted to get a separate opinion from a different group. I currently have the A2 flash hider but I'd like to get something new on there. I shoot indoors more often than not, probably 60-70% of the time- but I also have no real need for a flash hider. I've never shot any firearm at night in my life, and this rifle isn't really a home defense weapon (this would be like a second, or third, option in a home defense scenario).
Right now I'm mainly looking at the Troy Claymore- as it seems to direct the sound downrange, and has a much more aggressive look. Anyone that has one of these, does it increase sound to the shooter and people behind the shooter?
Can't say about the Troy device, but certainly look into the Battlecomp -- does well with flash, helps tame muzzle rise, and noise/concussion increase minimal compared to other brakes/comps.
jonconsiglio
06-14-11, 15:28
After two recent Triple Taps and two BattleComps, plus others over the years, I've found myself going back to flash hiders that double as suppressor mounts and moving away form brakes.
It's been an ongoing hassle for me finding the right brake for this or that gun, then struggling with suppressor options.... Not wanting to buy the KAC NT4s with their new cans coming out, but not wanting to buy multiple KAC MAMS at $500 a piece just to be able to use those new cans.
This brought me back around to other options, then ultimately to flash hiders again and it makes my life much more simple. It was a longer journey than that and involved realizing that a hair better split time means very little in the big picture (again, for me) compared to the other things that I've realized are more important.
Having said that, the BattleComp is one of the best options on the market for a general use gun.
I'd keep the A2 and spend the money on ammo. I wouldn't go buying something just for a look or just because you want to customize.
We were under the shade cover on a public range a few weeks back, and that Battlecomp was very loud. There are much louder devices out there, but if you're indoor shooting... the A2 is going to be hard to beat.
spamsammich
06-14-11, 15:58
Save your money and buy more ammo. Buy cheap and stack it deep. There's no point to adding heavy or fancy muzzle devices to something you're only going to be using at an indoor range. Battlecomps and brakes really begin to shine when you're trying to make fast followup shots beyond indoor gun range.
I think the cool cycle will turn away from brakes and comps soon and go back to flash hiders.
For the money, you can't beat the good old A2.
For me, the only reason to get anything else is if you need to run a can and it has a mount.
And yes, i've shot with multiple battlecomps, various brakes, various hiders, the triple tap, etc.
Are there any flash hider upgrades that are really worth doing? I figure most flash hiders are around-under $50, which wouldn't buy that much ammo anyway, but I have separate a separate "gun fund" and "ammo fund" so whatever I don't spend here will probably just be saved for whatever the next mod I want may be at some point (I need to try a 2moa Aimpoint to see how it compares to the 4moa for me).
When my rifle build for the summer is complete, it will be all top-quality parts but won't have an optic...that is, until I sell my second 9mm, maybe. So I could leave that money from a flash hider in my gun fund to save and see if there's an optic I want when I sell my 9mm.
Are there any flash hider upgrades that are really worth doing? I figure most flash hiders are around-under $50, which wouldn't buy that much ammo anyway, but I have separate a separate "gun fund" and "ammo fund" so whatever I don't spend here will probably just be saved for whatever the next mod I want may be at some point (I need to try a 2moa Aimpoint to see how it compares to the 4moa for me).
When my rifle build for the summer is complete, it will be all top-quality parts but won't have an optic...that is, until I sell my second 9mm, maybe. So I could leave that money from a flash hider in my gun fund to save and see if there's an optic I want when I sell my 9mm.
Sure, if you are looking for the absolute best flash suppression, you can try the AAC non-mount BLACKOUT, the Vortex, any number of the Phantoms. All are excellent and shout retail at or under $50 or so.
jonconsiglio
06-14-11, 16:46
Jason, do you guys have a flash hider 51t mount that's not a brake (obviously) and not a three prong flash eliminator. Something more along the lines of an A2 like KAC, Gemtech and Surefire offer?
I'm waiting on my paperwork for a Mini4 and since I've decided no more Comps and probably won't be going with the BattleComp 51t if it ever comes out, I'd like something as close to an A2 as possible.
Thanks and sorry to veer off topic!
30 cal slut
06-14-11, 16:51
I'd keep the A2 and spend the money on ammo. I wouldn't go buying something just for a look or just because you want to customize.
We were under the shade cover on a public range a few weeks back, and that Battlecomp was very loud. There are much louder devices out there, but if you're indoor shooting... the A2 is going to be hard to beat.
i hate muzzle brakes. and on an AR/M4, they are just plain unnecessary.
at night time, muzzle brakes can be flame throwers. do you want to disclose your position to potential threats in low light conditions?
and some of them produce concussions so loud, they'll give you a headache. no joke.
it's hard to improve on the A2 design - it's there for a reason. unless you need a specific device to quick-mount a suppressor, stick with the A2.
Jason, do you guys have a flash hider 51t mount that's not a brake (obviously) and not a three prong flash eliminator. Something more along the lines of an A2 like KAC, Gemtech and Surefire offer?
I'm waiting on my paperwork for a Mini4 and since I've decided no more Comps and probably won't be going with the BattleComp 51t if it ever comes out, I'd like something as close to an A2 as possible.
Thanks and sorry to veer off topic!
We used to, but have not for years. It was dropped for the performance of teh phantom, then that was dropped for the performance and durability of the Blackout hider.
That said, i hear you, but i doubt it will be made again.
fiddly_foo
06-14-11, 17:07
I live in CT so I have to have a brake and I got my PWS SM556. I can use the knights can or a gemtech halo which will be my next purchess. I have been spending my money on HK pistol's latlely taking a break from spending on my AR but I will get a can soon.
jonconsiglio
06-14-11, 17:07
Thanks Jason. I'm not a fan of the mounting options but in my limited experience, I am a fan of the M42000 and Mini4.
Thanks. Iwas excited about the BattleComp 51t during my very short lived brake phase, but that was one phase that over before I knew why happened.
it's hard to improve on the A2 design - it's there for a reason. unless you need a specific device to quick-mount a suppressor, stick with the A2.
I guess I figured that the reason was cost, just like the reason that the standard M4 stock is used, standard CAR handguards are used, standard trigger, etc. but like I said I'm relatively new to the AR platform still. Thanks for the info guys!
I'll be installing my third Rainier XTC as soon as I can get to it. It's a very good comp for controlling muzzle jump and pretty decent on flash with what I tested - Mk262 and Federal XM 62 grain Bonded.
As for shooting mostly indoors with an A/R, I have no recommendations except not to do it - you will damage your hearing. I ran a BC and the Rainier in the 9x9' room that starts the underground tunnel at my range - with lights out for testing flash. Both were loud as hell - and I was double plugged.
Off to the side (outside), the Rainier is the least annoying of any brake I've been around. From behind the gun the BC probably wins by a little in my opinion.
I think it sounds like a compensator is pretty fruitless for me, glad I asked before dumping the cash on one. I'll just hold onto that money while I get better with my irons and think on the best optic for me.
If you're concerned about, or sensitive to concussion, the Noveske KX3 does an excellent job of directing the blast downrange. I have one on my 7.5" upper, and it's noticeably less severe than my 11.5" with the BattleComp on it.
The KX3 is heavy, long and expensive, though but the weight does help keep the muzzle down during rapid fire.
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/BiteyMcClaws/IMAG0072.jpg
I have discussed this a little bit on another board but wanted to get a separate opinion from a different group. I currently have the A2 flash hider but I'd like to get something new on there. I shoot indoors more often than not, probably 60-70% of the time- but I also have no real need for a flash hider. I've never shot any firearm at night in my life, and this rifle isn't really a home defense weapon (this would be like a second, or third, option in a home defense scenario).
Right now I'm mainly looking at the Troy Claymore- as it seems to direct the sound downrange, and has a much more aggressive look. Anyone that has one of these, does it increase sound to the shooter and people behind the shooter?
After reading your post for the third time what you are really looking for is a muzzle device that looks good does not need a flash hider or muzzle brake and pushes the noise down range. If this is correct then you are looking for a Kies Linear Compensator or some similar product. But I don't think it has the cool look you are looking for. I do not own a Kies and have never fired one but it seems to me this is the type of product you are seeking for indoor use where noise could be a problem.
http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=KIES-Blst+Mstr22
spamsammich
06-15-11, 09:24
I think it sounds like a compensator is pretty fruitless for me, glad I asked before dumping the cash on one. I'll just hold onto that money while I get better with my irons and think on the best optic for me.
One thing I've done to deal with muzzle blast since both my rifles have brakes on them now is to shoot with Surefire EP4s under ear muffs when I'm indoors. Granted, this does nothing to direct the sound down range or protect those near me from the muzzle blast, but it is much more comfortable for me and allows me to concentrate on trigger press rather than reacting to the noise.
I use this earpro setup all the time indoors, whether doing carbine or pistol practice and I have noticed a slight improvement in my groups because I don't flinch from hearing people next to me firing their guns.
I think it sounds like a compensator is pretty fruitless for me, glad I asked before dumping the cash on one. I'll just hold onto that money while I get better with my irons and think on the best optic for me.
Think that is your best bet. Like everyone else has said, any truly functional compensator will be *really* loud inside - even the battle comp, which is less obnoxious and concussive than most, is several orders of magnitude louder than a regular A2 flash hider.....seems to be a bit of an internet story around that the battle comp is just a little louder than an A2....just not true; its a lot louder. Where it scores over other comps is the flash suppression capability and actual blast wave is much reduced....but its still louder, just no getting away from that.
There are a couple of options which will reduce the noise (by directing it fully forward, as you are aware of per your original post) - one that Colt guy mentioned above, and also the Levang Linear Compensator which is pretty cheap - they do work, but actually increase felt recoil a tad vs an A2 flash hider...so personally I'd just stick with stock.
Think that is your best bet. Like everyone else has said, any truly functional compensator will be *really* loud inside - even the battle comp, which is less obnoxious and concussive than most, is several orders of magnitude louder than a regular A2 flash hider.....seems to be a bit of an internet story around that the battle comp is just a little louder than an A2....just not true; its a lot louder. Where it scores over other comps is the flash suppression capability and actual blast wave is much reduced....but its still louder, just no getting away from that.
There are a couple of options which will reduce the noise (by directing it fully forward, as you are aware of per your original post) - one that Colt guy mentioned above, and also the Levang Linear Compensator which is pretty cheap - they do work, but actually increase felt recoil a tad vs an A2 flash hider...so personally I'd just stick with stock.
I've noticed this as well. The BC is a helluva lot louder than an A2. I originally thought it was maybe a little louder, until I shot a gun with an A2 on it, and it hit me how loud the BC was in comparison.
The BC does work as advertized, though.
jonconsiglio
06-15-11, 09:54
I often use the Surefire plugs as well, but I almost never double up. Shooting with a Triple Tap or even the PWS brakes on my SCARs doesn't bother me with just plugs or muffs for some reason.
I have excellent hearing. It's strange how different we all interpret things, it's definitely interesting.
I was all about the brakes for a short while. I had to have the Triple Taps and BattleComps then I was convinced I had to have the new KAC MAMS when it becomes available. Then one day out of nowhere (and I've been shooting since I was 8 or 9 and regularly since I was 17 - the past 14 years now) it hit me that I just don't need them for my applications and it's not all about speed. Most likely the only way I'll use one again on an AR is if it's shot mainly suppressed.
Sure, I shoot a lot of drills for speed, but what I'm realizing finally is that it's not about beating the other guys times but being able to control my weapon from all positions. I shoot a lot from cover and though I'm usually not supported, I am close to a wall or something similar. I look at it like this; if I am in a situation where I need multiple hits as fast as possible, that means they're too damn close and any benefit of a brake, for the most part, won't matter much as the distance will be close enough that it's not needed. At distances of 50 meters or more, I'll need to at least get a quick sight picture before each shot and I've found that a brake in this situation doesn't make me any faster, just makes it feel that way.
I'm trying to put my thoughts into words here but I don't feel like I'm explaining it as well as I could be. To sum it up, there's a hell of a lot more to shooting than split times, which I'm sure most are aware of. It's funny, I never thought I'd be saying these things as I was sure I had found the holy grail with the Triple Taps and BattleComps.
Yeah, looks pretty much like the Claymore minus the teeth up front. If I ever get one, it will be because I have a little extra money laying around. I say that because with all the disagreement about whether it increases or decreases muzzle rise, felt recoil, noise, or blast, I'm pretty curious about them at this point.
Theoretically, X amount of energy leaves the barrel regardless. If these things push the noise and blast (forms of energy) downrange and divert some energy from pressing downward (moving the barrel up) it physically would have to increase felt recoil. It's probably a viable trade-off for some and not for others.
After reading your post for the third time what you are really looking for is a muzzle device that looks good does not need a flash hider or muzzle brake and pushes the noise down range. If this is correct then you are looking for a Kies Linear Compensator or some similar product. But I don't think it has the cool look you are looking for. I do not own a Kies and have never fired one but it seems to me this is the type of product you are seeking for indoor use where noise could be a problem.
http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=KIES-Blst+Mstr22
I've noticed this as well. The BC is a helluva lot louder than an A2. I originally thought it was maybe a little louder, until I shot a gun with an A2 on it, and it hit me how loud the BC was in comparison.
The BC does work as advertized, though.
It sure does, and of the comps, especially from the firers position, its not bad - I really like mine. But strictly considering perceived volume level vs an A2....not even close. I get comments about my BC being loud all the time.....even at 3 gun matches where there are all sorts of comps being used.
TonyTacoma
06-15-11, 11:21
For any battle rifle I always choose a flash hider. My choice for flashhider is the Vortex.
For any battle rifle I always choose a flash hider. My choice for flashhider is the Vortex.
Is the "ping" sound not too annoying?
Is the "ping" sound not too annoying?
both the Vortex and the Blackout have that Pinging sound. Neither is annoying. You only hear it when working the gun cold.
TonyTacoma
06-15-11, 13:55
both the Vortex and the Blackout have that Pinging sound. Neither is annoying. You only hear it when working the gun cold.
Roger that.
yhmspecter
06-15-11, 14:19
If you are looking for a comp type muzzle device I would say the Battle Comp hands down. I have two and the are great. They aren't any louder then the phantom flash wider I replaced with my first battle comp.
The A2 is perfectly fine. For aftermarket flash hiders I like the Vortex and the AAC Blackout with a little more favor toward the Blackout because the prongs are a little stronger. I don't really notice a "ping noise" with either. Once nice thing about these flash hiders that I like is that you can just put some Rockset on them and screw them on. No real need to time them up with crush/peel washers unless you want to.
The Battle Comp is pretty cool, maybe not the best for team ops but doesn't sound like that's the purpose anyway.
I recently got to fire a KAC Iconel Triple Tap Brake (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/KAC-Knight-s-Armament-QD-Muzzle-Compensator-p/kac%2025683.htm) and it was badass. I stood on the 9 o'clock side while my buddy fired it from a 12.5" barrel and muzzle blast was moderate. It also dampened felt recoil substantially.
I own the AAC Blackout, AAC Brakeout, A2, and Phantom, and if I had to pick one for flash suppression, it would be the Phantom. Hands down.
The Blackout's ping annoys the hell out of some people. Just ask the people who were shooting next to me at the February CTT class in Tucson.
QuietShootr
06-15-11, 14:48
both the Vortex and the Blackout have that Pinging sound. Neither is annoying. You only hear it when working the gun cold.
I disagree with that. I have a Colt 14.5" with a Vortex and a 16" FAL with one as well, and they both ring like a bell when you fire a shot. It doesn't bother me, but I can absolutely hear it.
QuietShootr
06-15-11, 14:52
Yeah, looks pretty much like the Claymore minus the teeth up front. If I ever get one, it will be because I have a little extra money laying around. I say that because with all the disagreement about whether it increases or decreases muzzle rise, felt recoil, noise, or blast, I'm pretty curious about them at this point.
Theoretically, X amount of energy leaves the barrel regardless. If these things push the noise and blast (forms of energy) downrange and divert some energy from pressing downward (moving the barrel up) it physically would have to increase felt recoil. It's probably a viable trade-off for some and not for others.
Well, I'll tell you this: the PWS is very effective, but on the .308 SCAR and LMT MWS (16", both of them) it is painful to my ears to shoot even with hearing protection. The muzzle on the SCAR barely moves, but I can't imagine what would happen if I had to fire it without hearing protection. I have a Gemtech Phantom Bi-lock on there now.
jonconsiglio
06-15-11, 14:57
Well, I'll tell you this: the PWS is very effective, but on the .308 SCAR and LMT MWS (16", both of them) it is painful to my ears to shoot even with hearing protection. The muzzle on the SCAR barely moves, but I can't imagine what would happen if I had to fire it without hearing protection. I have a Gemtech Phantom Bi-lock on there now.
I switched out both of my SCARs to BattleComps (2.0 and BABC) and have/had Triple Taps on 2 of my ARs. The SCARs are both less obnoxious that they were with the PWS brakes and feel just as good, though a little different. My SCAR Heavy almost recoils down now.
QuietShootr
06-15-11, 15:02
I switched out both of my SCARs to BattleComps (2.0 and BABC) and have/had Triple Taps on 2 of my ARs. The SCARs are both less obnoxious that they were with the PWS brakes and feel just as good, though a little different. My SCAR Heavy almost recoils down now.
I'm pretty far from cheap, but I just can't countenance spending $200 or more on a muzzle brake. I'd rather spend that money on ammo and overcome the recoil with technique.
I'd keep the A2 and spend the money on ammo. I wouldn't go buying something just for a look or just because you want to customize..
+1. Dont be Tacticool
jonconsiglio
06-15-11, 15:43
I'm pretty far from cheap, but I just can't countenance spending $200 or more on a muzzle brake. I'd rather spend that money on ammo and overcome the recoil with technique.
I've never used brakes before. For whatever reason late last year, I decided I needed them on all my rifles. Less than 9 months later I'm realizing I blew a lot of money on something I'd now rather not have.
The part that really frustrates me is that I was going to buy the KAC nt4 suppressor. I put it off for a while then KAC says they have a new brake and cans coming out. Well, the new $500 MAMS brake and $1,500 cans are not backwards compatible with the NT4 or Triple Tap. I understand improved products and keeping up with the times, but not when the other very expensive items can't be used with the new ones. That's what started the process of me moving away from brakes.
Then I realized that the very small improvement in split times that I saw from an ideal stance and grip meant very little. I can shoot almost as fast with a flash hider as I've been working on a solid grip and recoil management for years now. So, really the only advantage there is for me since I shoot from many different positions is that my dot moves a little less, really nothing else.
So, it was an expensive, wasteful lesson for me, but live and learn. I thought I could squeeze that tiny bit extra performance out of y guns but I found it was counterproductive in other ways.
I've found that a nicely tuned gas system and a Vltor A5 give me most of the benefits of a brake without any of the drawbacks. Thankfully it wasn't a complete waste as I learned a lot in the process and am recouping most of my money by selling the brakes locally.
If you're looking for a muzzle device that reduces muzzle flip, has very low blast and suppresses flash like the A2, you'll most likely be happy with one of our BRT Covert Comps.
If you don't like it, you can always send it back for a full refund. :)
If you're looking for a muzzle device that reduces muzzle flip, has very low blast and suppresses flash like the A2, you'll most likely be happy with one of our BRT Covert Comps.
If you don't like it, you can always send it back for a full refund. :)
That sounds like a great deal with the ability to send it back if I don't like it. Does it have to be indexed?
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