View Full Version : Entitlement Mentality In Kids Today
Belmont31R
06-14-11, 21:20
I hear this a lot, and Im pretty perplexed by it.
If you want to count me as a kid still Im 27 with a wife and 2 kids. I hear all the time from people how kids these days (teens and 20's) have such a bad entitlement mentality. Ive never accepted a tax payer dollar I didn't earn, and a few times we needed help my family kicked in. In return I did maintenance at my dad's house when he was overseas, ect. My family has run on a help your kids mentality. My grandparents put the down payment on my parents first property, their car, and my parents have done the same for me. Its just my dad I have now, and Ill be helping my kids in the same way. Thats how it should work, and what Ive gotten will be passed down to my kids through the jump start Ive gotten.
But all through multiple boards I hear people in their 30's and up constantly droning on about how shitty kids are these days. Guess what? Your parents thought the same thing about your generation. Your grand parents thought their kids were shitty. But lets take a little gander at history, and see who the real entitlement crew has been for the last 80 years or so.
Lets just do a little run down of entitlements in this country people pay for, and this is by no means a complete list.
Social Security Act.......1935
Medicare Act................1965
TANF (replaced existing program)..1997
Medicaid......................1965
New Deal.....................1933
FSP (first food stamp program).....1939
And just you try to take away social security and Medicaid from the old people. You'll have a geriatrics convention with riots by the old'uns that would make the tea party look pale in comparison. They can get 3k+ in free medical care a month while they shake their cane at the TV bitching about how lazy kids are these days.
None of these programs mentioned above were instituted during a time I was eligible to vote, and they have cost this country trillions of dollars over the years. They cost more than the entire DOD many times over, and that doesn't even consider the cost to state budgets. Currently these programs make up the biggest chunk of our state budget in Texas.
This also doesn't include any education funding which has been socialized, and made an entitlement well before my time or anyone below me. For ****s sake in my state, so called free state, school districts have taxing authority. Yes thats right. The local school district gets to tax you.
We can go on to things like the dear leader Reagan signing EMTALA into law which paved the road for ObamaCare. The grand master conservative Reagan made it so hospitals, ambulances, and other medical professionals have to treat people regardless of their ability to pay, their citizenship, and other things. I was 2 years old but its the kids these days with the entitlement mentality!
Don't forget Jiminah Cahtah in the 70's signing the CRA into law, and beefed up under Clinton.
Im not even mentioning half of whats out there....but go on bitching about the entitlement mentality of kids today. A kid with an entitlement mentality today is a drop in the bucket compared to the trillions we've already spent on programs that came about before we were born, and at least 50 trillion in the future we have no way to pay for from programs all you "non entitlement" era people created.
You make some very good points. When it comes to EMTALA, I would not say that it was instrumental in passing ObamaCare. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a big fan and see it as an example of a well-intentioned, but unconstitutional law with a host of unintended consequences.
Interestingly, EMTALA was never intended to be an entitlement, but instead keep private hospitals from "dumping" their uninsured at public hospitals. In other words, the uninsurred were already getting taxpayer funded care, and EMTALA was designed to spread that cost to the private hospitals. While this does result in cost-sharing that puts upward pressure on healthcare prices, it is still a minority player in the dramatic rise in healthcare costs.
Unfortunately, I don't ever see it being repealed. Uncle Sam does not want to take on that burden again, and American's are not ready to offer only palliative care to the uninsured.
But all through multiple boards I hear people in their 30's and up constantly droning on about how shitty kids are these days. Guess what? Your parents thought the same thing about your generation. Your grand parents thought their kids were shitty. But lets take a little gander at history, and see who the real entitlement crew has been for the last 80 years or so.
Not really.
I moved out of my parents house when I was 18, most of my friends did the same. I cannot count the number of grown ****ing adults in their 20s and 30s who still live with Mommy and Daddy these days.
As for the listed entitlements, I don't get any of that shit. I doubt I will get any meaningful social security when the times comes, I wish I could have simply opted out of the program.
But it is the expectation of entitlements (many of which don't actually exist) which makes many view today's young adults with such disdain. It seems you don't qualify for that criticism so you must come to terms with the fact that people aren't talking about YOU just as my father understood nobody was talking about him when people talk about what complete pieces of shit most baby boomers turned out to be.
some like yourself that are not standing with a hand out crying :)
Sadly many are looking for a handout and milking the system demanding what they want now
House hunter show is a good example first home couples whine like babies when the house does not have granite and stainless kitchen etc...
Again I wish more were like you but quite a few people it seems are not :(
You know, most of my colleagues are 20 somethings.
Some are shitstains, some are average joes and some are freaking shining beacons of All That Is Good. And I'm not even kidding a bit about how the shining stars light up my life and all around them.
I don't see an entitlement mentality as much as I see the death of gentility. The nearly complete and utter death of gentility, in fact.
I imagine this is compounded by the isolated sense of my upbringing, in rural Iowa, and my continued existence among more urbane folk.
Belmont31R
06-15-11, 09:30
Not really.
I moved out of my parents house when I was 18, most of my friends did the same. I cannot count the number of grown ****ing adults in their 20s and 30s who still live with Mommy and Daddy these days.
As for the listed entitlements, I don't get any of that shit. I doubt I will get any meaningful social security when the times comes, I wish I could have simply opted out of the program.
But it is the expectation of entitlements (many of which don't actually exist) which makes many view today's young adults with such disdain. It seems you don't qualify for that criticism so you must come to terms with the fact that people aren't talking about YOU just as my father understood nobody was talking about him when people talk about what complete pieces of shit most baby boomers turned out to be.
My point here is that previous generations, mainly starting under FDR, created the entitlement system in this country, and then you had Medicare and Medicaid started in the 60's. A kid with an entitlement mentality today is just a kid who thinks he is owed something. His generation isn't the one that has saddled us with the entitlements we have today unless you want to count ObamaCare in that, and thats going to be not even be 10% of entitlement spending on a yearly basis.
Belmont31R
06-15-11, 09:38
You make some very good points. When it comes to EMTALA, I would not say that it was instrumental in passing ObamaCare. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a big fan and see it as an example of a well-intentioned, but unconstitutional law with a host of unintended consequences.
Interestingly, EMTALA was never intended to be an entitlement, but instead keep private hospitals from "dumping" their uninsured at public hospitals. In other words, the uninsurred were already getting taxpayer funded care, and EMTALA was designed to spread that cost to the private hospitals. While this does result in cost-sharing that puts upward pressure on healthcare prices, it is still a minority player in the dramatic rise in healthcare costs.
Unfortunately, I don't ever see it being repealed. Uncle Sam does not want to take on that burden again, and American's are not ready to offer only palliative care to the uninsured.
There are many things that make our health care so expensive, and Americans will be more receptive to a free market health care system as the uber controlled and screwed system now leaves more people without insurance year after year. When they go to work while paying higher taxes, their employer can no longer afford insurance for their workers, and the quality of care they do get gets worse.
Belmont31R
06-15-11, 09:40
some like yourself that are not standing with a hand out crying :)
Sadly many are looking for a handout and milking the system demanding what they want now
House hunter show is a good example first home couples whine like babies when the house does not have granite and stainless kitchen etc...
Again I wish more were like you but quite a few people it seems are not :(
If TV was an indication of how most Americans actually are we'd have withered away a long time ago. Our cable box just went out, and I havnt had time to go get a new one. Its been 4-5 days, and I don't really even miss it. Might end up cancelling it actually.
I moved out of my parents house when I was 18, most of my friends did the same. I cannot count the number of grown ****ing adults in their 20s and 30s who still live with Mommy and Daddy these days.
Fantastic point.
however, the OP presumably does not fall into this category.
Being an "adult" means moving out, paying your own bills, making your own way, and either standing up or falling down due to your own actions.
Belmont, I'm a couple of years younger than you and I see it too. The generations before us have ****ed us hard.
Steyr, it's only after the war that males moving out at their majority became the norm. I expect as prices for everything rise, living at the parents home for economic reasons will become more common.
My generation will not live the way my dads did. We won't be able to afford it.
Belmont, Robert Putnam wrote a book called "Bowling Alone" that alleges TV is the greatest single factor in American civil decline. I have a TV but no cable. You start to like it after a while.
Steyr, it's only after the war that males moving out at their majority became the norm. I expect as prices for everything rise, living at the parents home for economic reasons will become more common.
Current economy notwithstanding, this is often a false rationale. Kids stay home because they can't afford the lifestyle they are accustomed to, not because they can't afford to move out at all. I saw kids in my old neighborhood driving around in $30k cars while still living at home with their parents well past age 21. Or buying thousands of dollars worth of guns. Or motorcycles. or clothes.
Not being able to afford the lifestyle, not having someone else to cook and clean for you, and generally avoiding any semblance of responsibility are far bigger motivators to staying home than "I can't afford to move out" from what I've witnessed.
Which is the parents' own fault to begin with, so in that sense I agree with the sentiment that the previous generation ****ed over the kids.
thopkins22
06-15-11, 11:00
I'm often worried about the generation of kids directly behind me(skinny jeans told me all I need to know:p).
But today's youth are absolutely entitled to one thing. To pick up the tab of previous generations who spent money they didn't have with absolutely zero consideration as to where it would leave their children and grandchildren.
A thirty thousand dollar car while living at home is an absolute drop in the bucket compared to what they are saddled with. It also strikes me as a personal decision...previous generations bought their own cars, but they sure as hell thought it was appropriate for the rest of the country to pay for their retirement, health insurance, and pay for the charities they thought should exist but were too consumed "being responsible and moving out at 18" to pay for them themselves.
Obviously this is a gross generalization, just like saying that the youth have a sense of entitlement that somehow previous generations were immune to.
A thirty thousand dollar car while living at home is an absolute drop in the bucket compared to what they are saddled with. It also strikes me as a personal decision...previous generations bought their own cars, but they sure as hell thought it was appropriate for the rest of the country to pay for their retirement, health insurance, and pay for the charities they thought should exist but were too consumed "being responsible and moving out at 18" to pay for them themselves.
Obviously this is a gross generalization, just like saying that the youth have a sense of entitlement that somehow previous generations were immune to.
You're missing the point.
Saying "I can't afford to move out and get a place of my own" while making all manner of luxury purchases exposes the real reason for being at home. You think mr. BMW and $8k AR is saving for retirement at the same time? Please.
Additionally it exposes a generally ****ed up mentality, which is an unwillingness to be responsible for oneself.
which kind of brings us full circle to part of the problem many have with the under-30s, which is that they would prefer to sit around and bitch and moan about how everyone else is screwing them and "it's not fair" than try to do something to change even their personal situation let alone change things on a larger scale.
TV is the devil. We haven't had broadcast TV in the house in about 8 years now.
As for entitlement mentality, I think the problem now is kids raising kids. A lot of parents don't have the maturity or life experience to properly educate a child. It's easier to just give them what they want or plop them down in front of the TV. Of course they're going to grow up with a screwed sense of how the world works.
thopkins22
06-15-11, 11:19
You're missing the point.
Saying "I can't afford to move out and get a place of my own" while making all manner of luxury purchases exposes the real reason for being at home. You think mr. BMW and $8k AR is saving for retirement at the same time? Please.
Additionally it exposes a generally ****ed up mentality, which is an unwillingness to be responsible for oneself.
which kind of brings us full circle to part of the problem many have with the under-30s, which is that they would prefer to sit around and bitch and moan about how everyone else is screwing them and "it's not fair" than try to do something to change even their personal situation let alone change things on a larger scale.
Fair enough...I guess I believe that the people you are describing are only screwing themselves as opposed to society at large.
House hunter show is a good example first home couples whine like babies when the house does not have granite and stainless kitchen etc...
I watch this show a lot with my wife. It is amazing to watch these "kids" complain that the house they are looking at basically isn't as nice as the one they live in now (their parents)! Well no chit! Your parents are in their 50's and saved their money in order to get what they got!
C4
I'm ashamed to admit it, but I guess I fit into this category. I'm 21 still living with my mom while I attend community college. Unfortunately it's been hard to find a job that pays well enough to juggle school and an apartment.
Fair enough...I guess I believe that the people you are describing are only screwing themselves as opposed to society at large.
Two problems with that.
First, they ARE society at large, or will become it, or will control it.
Second, we need people that are motivated to produce, not suck the teet.
There are many things that make our health care so expensive, and Americans will be more receptive to a free market health care system as the uber controlled and screwed system now leaves more people without insurance year after year. When they go to work while paying higher taxes, their employer can no longer afford insurance for their workers, and the quality of care they do get gets worse.
The problem is incompetence.
All modern societies have some sort of welfare state. Bismarck gave the workers "something to lose" besides "their chains".
Germany manages to get along just fine. The problem is we need to switch markets from mass produced goods to quality goods (which we are in the process of).
I think the problem we are seeing is those that apply for welfare with no intentions of finding a job. Those are the parasites.
What a lot of you guys are describing is the culture of kids born and raised in middle class late 80's and 90's.
My parents watch house hunters too for the same reason Grant.
My point here is that previous generations, mainly starting under FDR, created the entitlement system in this country, and then you had Medicare and Medicaid started in the 60's. A kid with an entitlement mentality today is just a kid who thinks he is owed something. His generation isn't the one that has saddled us with the entitlements we have today unless you want to count ObamaCare in that, and thats going to be not even be 10% of entitlement spending on a yearly basis.
And you would be correct about that. There was a ton of socialism in the 1930s. Hell if you were declared indigent in some states you could be forcibly sterilized.
And I think the 60s Hippie Generation was probably the worst this country has ever seen, they did so much damage to what made us great it isn't funny.
Steyr, it's only after the war that males moving out at their majority became the norm. I expect as prices for everything rise, living at the parents home for economic reasons will become more common.
My generation will not live the way my dads did. We won't be able to afford it.
There is only one generation that had it worse than kids today, and that was the generation of the early 80s. That is the one my friends and I made our own way in.
I had a job in high school and made a point of buying all the shit I would need BEFORE I moved out because I knew damn sure I wouldn't be buying shit once I did.
And you didn't get a house, you rented an apartment and you had roommate in order to afford the apartment. Most of us drove used cars with values of $100.
I stopped buying guns, didn't have the money that I did working part time in high school. I worked hard but every dime went out the window for rent, utilities, groceries and clothes. Not to mention keeping that piece of shit 1970s clunker of a car running.
We worked to move up so that we could finally split a house or move in with the girlfriend or something along those lines. And when things started to improve nobody ran out and upgraded to a 40k car, you put the money aside for a down payment on a real house in a real neighborhood. I spent most of my early adult life doing just that, trying to get to that point.
It was hard and when bad things happened you truly wondered what might happen to you now. But at least I wasn't sleeping in the same bedroom I had when I was 12 years old.
The most unfortunate thing about basement dwellers is they don't even seem to recognize or feel any kind of a sense of failure to get out of the damn nest and go make their own.
An Undocumented Worker
06-15-11, 16:42
You want to virtually eliminate the entitlement mentality in children.
Change labor laws so that kids of appropriate age can work. Farm jobs etc.
Moose-Knuckle
06-15-11, 17:18
It's not just kids; in the scope of my law enforcement profession I encounter a broad array of people daily. Most possess an over achieved sense of entitlement. It would be humorous if it was not so aggravating.
You want to virtually eliminate the entitlement mentality in children.
Change labor laws so that kids of appropriate age can work. Farm jobs etc.
You don't need to change anything. At 15 I detassled corn for LESS than minimum wage. I had to sign a form agreeing to it.
You need not change anything but childrens expectations of things and parents roles as parents. Me and every other kid in Iowa detassled corn because it was a job we could get and needed money and our parent's didn't spit out currency like an ATM.
Of course our parents were interested in teaching us how to provide for ourselves rather than trying to be our bestest buddy in the world. I think about the parents I know who are more concerned with not being "the bad guy" than they are about preparing their kids to one day become adults and it makes me angry.
That is because they are producing an entire population of over grown babies who can't fend for themselves and the only thing meaningful they learned how to do is not shit on themselves. They don't respect others or anything because they've never had to work for anything they have.
I think you make good points. There are a lot of folks out there of all ages that complain how things are or how bad their life is. What the hell ever happened to picking ones self up by the boot straps and making ones life better, this is America after all. I wish we could ship all those that complain to a third world country and see how bad things can really be.
Personally when I worked in Africa I was shocked a what I saw. Literally thousands of people begging and selling trinkets on the side of the road. There were many kids doing this. What the hell in life do these kids have to look forward too?
We are so blessed to live in America and so many people have forgotten this.
You're missing the point.
Saying "I can't afford to move out and get a place of my own" while making all manner of luxury purchases exposes the real reason for being at home. You think mr. BMW and $8k AR is saving for retirement at the same time? Please.
Additionally it exposes a generally ****ed up mentality, which is an unwillingness to be responsible for oneself.
which kind of brings us full circle to part of the problem many have with the under-30s, which is that they would prefer to sit around and bitch and moan about how everyone else is screwing them and "it's not fair" than try to do something to change even their personal situation let alone change things on a larger scale.
Moose-Knuckle
06-15-11, 20:12
Here in the land of plenty generations of Americans and illegal aliens have been conditioned to go with out want. This in part has bred a culture of complacency and lackadaisicalness which contributes to this heightened sense of entitlement.
My grandfather is 93, a WWII vet of the European theatre, and grew up during the Great Depression. As a small child my father lived in rural AR, they had no indoor plumbing (they used a two holer and pumped their water from a well), no electricity, and he remembers seeing snakes slither on the ground under the house through the floor boards.
Today people go ape shit if their high speed internet connection so much as hiccups momentarily or their Apple personal electronic device is more than a week old. There is a large percentage of the populace that has a cold hard reality coming down the pipe.
I'm ashamed to admit it, but I guess I fit into this category. I'm 21 still living with my mom while I attend community college. Unfortunately it's been hard to find a job that pays well enough to juggle school and an apartment.
Do not be ashamed. This tough talk how you should leave parents' house at 18 and be ready to fall on your ass is half-bravado. Look around and see what's happening with people who thought they already were on their feet in this country. These days getting out too early is an easy path towards a failure. Those who fell on their asses will be sitting there for a while.
You're getting an education, which is neither cheap nor easy but it will help you in a long run. The jobs are...we know what they are. My wife with Master's degree couldn't find a job with a faintest semblance to her specialty for three years.
My son qualified for one of the best colleges in this country. A $2500 National Merit award that he had won covers less than 10% of one semester tuition. I want to see how 18 year old kid can afford such education and living expenses on his own.
Appreciate what your Mom is doing for you, help her out however you can, stay in school, exercise fiscal discipline and move out when you have a responsible game plan. That way there is a really good chance you won't have to move back in.
I will let my kids live with me as long as they need under one condition :) they appreciate it
family seems to be a strange thing to some ?
ours is very tight and my parents I have a ton of respect for they are my parents ! not my old man old lady etc.. but my parents !!!!!
I grew up fortunate but still my dad made me get a job at 16 washing dishes !!!! not sure any white legal kids are dish washers these days !
and then got a job detailing cars which was more fun :)
lived at my parents for quite a while ? nice guest house though so was separate but always did what I could to show my appreciation
I often find it interesting that so many people want nothing to do with their parents ? which to me is kinda sad and a whole other way I feel our society is going down the tubes :) but thats another thread
I will let my kids live with me as long as they need under one condition :) they appreciate it
family seems to be a strange thing to some ?
ours is very tight and my parents I have a ton of respect for they are my parents ! not my old man old lady etc.. but my parents !!!!!
I grew up fortunate but still my dad made me get a job at 16 washing dishes !!!! not sure any white legal kids are dish washers these days !
and then got a job detailing cars which was more fun :)
lived at my parents for quite a while ? nice guest house though so was separate but always did what I could to show my appreciation
I often find it interesting that so many people want nothing to do with their parents ? which to me is kinda sad and a whole other way I feel our society is going down the tubes :) but thats another thread
I'm not saying your parents did anything horrible or that you are a bad person. But there is a sense of pride and accomplishment when a guy in his early 20s looks at his modest apartment and belongings and says "This is all mine, I did this all by myself." It is a right of passage of standing on your own two feet, and you don't get that sense of accomplishment and the resulting confidence in yourself by moving into the guest house.
Very few of us were actually kicked out. I didn't come home one day to find my luggage on the sidewalk. But it was made clear to me that it was expected that I would find my own way when I became an adult and that I would take the necessary steps to prepare for that day. So my friends and I graduated high school, enjoyed our last summer of fun and found places we could afford to live and figured out how we would pay for them.
I was permitted to live at home until I left for college and now I live in an apartment my dad owns. He gives me a 10% discount to be on call to arrange repairs and such for the other tenants. I also lived at home during college in the summers, but I was working 60 plushoirs a week.
Worked on the farm beginning when I could walk. Couple of weeks before I turned 16, my father bought me a nice Jeep. He then parked it in the driveway and said I could drive it when I could pay the insurance. Found a job within a week that I kept all through high school. My junior and senior yrs. of high school, parents didn't claim me on taxes so I would be eligible for financial aid.
Week before I left for college, parents sat me down and explained that if I flunked out, I would be responsible for paying back every penny. When I left for college, my father helped me move in and then took me to a late lunch. Told me I was welcome home during breaks as long as grades were good. Then explained that if I began to fail out that he was not to be called. I would need to find a job and a place to live on my own. I would not be allowed home and I would receive no money.
He also said he would only send me money if I was employed and grades were fine.
I have always been motivated, but my father made damn sure that I was extra motivated. See no reason not to follow this model with my daughter and future children. There is also still a family farm they will be spending plenty of time working on.
Failure/laziness is simply not tolerated.
Belmont31R
06-16-11, 21:50
Current economy notwithstanding, this is often a false rationale. Kids stay home because they can't afford the lifestyle they are accustomed to, not because they can't afford to move out at all. I saw kids in my old neighborhood driving around in $30k cars while still living at home with their parents well past age 21. Or buying thousands of dollars worth of guns. Or motorcycles. or clothes.
Not being able to afford the lifestyle, not having someone else to cook and clean for you, and generally avoiding any semblance of responsibility are far bigger motivators to staying home than "I can't afford to move out" from what I've witnessed.
Which is the parents' own fault to begin with, so in that sense I agree with the sentiment that the previous generation ****ed over the kids.
I suspect that is just local to your area, and not the entire country. I grew up in a lot different environment than that even though I lived in socal.
And one thing Id like to also point out is the requirements employers have now. BA/BS degrees are a dime a dozen, and more expensive to the student than when my dad went to school. He never graduated college because the company he went to work for, and still does 30+ years later needed people. He makes over $100/HR, and at the time was able to make a good living. There is no way an engineering firm today would hire a non-grad with zero experience like what he had.
Then todays employers want you to have a cell phone, be on the net off work hours, and generally be wired in all the time. The type of employer my dad grew up in as an adult does not exist anymore. All the perks he had don't really exist anymore. Read some of the articles floating around about how around 1/3rd of employers who offer medical insurance will be dropping it when ObamaCare takes full effect.
Which brings me to the point here...the previous generations who laud themselves all the time have really screwed over my generation, and made it much tougher on us. Employers are expecting more and offering less....both due to the economy (which started in the 70's), and with the taxes Ill have to pay my entire life most of which Ill probably never see again. Like I said there are the "greatest generation" folks who voted in Medicare and Medicaid...boosted up SS....and its me paying it now while they bitch about lazy we all are yet they are taking in 3X or more in benefits than they ever paid in. They voted themselves into a cozy retirement at my expense...none of this shit passed when I was even alive, and even since then the only thing that has really changed is Medicare D and ObamaCare.
Moose-Knuckle
06-16-11, 23:40
Then todays employers want you to have a cell phone, be on the net off work hours, and generally be wired in all the time. The type of employer my dad grew up in as an adult does not exist anymore. All the perks he had don't really exist anymore. Read some of the articles floating around about how around 1/3rd of employers who offer medical insurance will be dropping it when ObamaCare takes full effect.
Which brings me to the point here...the previous generations who laud themselves all the time have really screwed over my generation, and made it much tougher on us. Employers are expecting more and offering less....both due to the economy (which started in the 70's), and with the taxes Ill have to pay my entire life most of which Ill probably never see again. Like I said there are the "greatest generation" folks who voted in Medicare and Medicaid...boosted up SS....and its me paying it now while they bitch about lazy we all are yet they are taking in 3X or more in benefits than they ever paid in. They voted themselves into a cozy retirement at my expense...none of this shit passed when I was even alive, and even since then the only thing that has really changed is Medicare D and ObamaCare.
It started way before then. If you think SS and Medicare are ****ed up read up on the Federal Reserve Act! :eek:
Inch, by inch they take. That is why "they" are called progressives. Don't be fooled by the Democrat vs. Republican horse shit. They're on in bed together.
I'm not saying your parents did anything horrible or that you are a bad person. But there is a sense of pride and accomplishment when a guy in his early 20s looks at his modest apartment and belongings and says "This is all mine, I did this all by myself." It is a right of passage of standing on your own two feet, and you don't get that sense of accomplishment and the resulting confidence in yourself by moving into the guest house.
Very few of us were actually kicked out. I didn't come home one day to find my luggage on the sidewalk. But it was made clear to me that it was expected that I would find my own way when I became an adult and that I would take the necessary steps to prepare for that day. So my friends and I graduated high school, enjoyed our last summer of fun and found places we could afford to live and figured out how we would pay for them.
I usually agree with ya but not here :) heheheheheh
saying that you cant get that by moving into the guest house ?
maybe you would not have but I never speak for other people ?
in HS I worked and saved up for a single arcade game (defender) put it in a local store it made enough to buy another (Pac man) those two bought 4 those 4 bought 8 and so on
all on my own in HS and at 17 making over 50K a year in the early 80s is a huge sense of accomplishment all with no help from anyone
that made me enough to open a skateboard and bicycle shop by my early 20s I had built it into one of the 3 largest skate shops on the west coast ! and making solid 6 figures a year
so in my early 20s buying out the commercial property my shop was in and building a business I would say that is a HUGE sense of accomplishment and gives you confidence !!!!
got out of the business at 27 and know I have put away enough to go do my next dream of diving and photographing underwater world which I did for 15 years
maybe my parents saw I was productive kid and not a bum !
when I moved out I rented 400 sqft for a long time cost about $1000 with utilities and that was over 20 years ago cost that much !
also the first place I bought was 720 sqft ! but you have to think that was over $300,000 cost of living on Maui is totally dif than here on the mainland ?
now at 48 I am just a normal guy work hard to make a living took a beating with the economy down turn and have kids
but my early life was a dream :)
on a thought I am almost 48
seems my parents and all my friends parents pretty much worked a single kind of job usually for a single company then retired
these days it seems places get bought out you loose a job or get moved or move on etc..
just seems the days of getting a job and working with that one company for 30 years then retire is gone ? or very rare
..., and with the taxes Ill have to pay my entire life most of which Ill probably never see again.
And you think this makes your generation special? I was born in the 40's. I started paying SS tax in 1961 and, when it began, Medicare in 1966, and I am still paying them. And because I am self employed I get to pay both the employee and employer shares.
Unless I get really sick, and I sure try to stay healthy, I'll never see all of my money back, not even close. So please don't lump me in with the benefits = 3 times contribution crowd. That is an average number and is highly affected by the sick and lazy on other end of the scale that are taking out way more than 3x you refer to, some who have never paid in a dime.
And there are plenty of older people like me that resent it just like you do. There is no need to make it a generational issue.
Smuckatelli
06-17-11, 12:20
It's articles like this that cause a lot of friction:
What are they looking for in their 20s?
They are looking for the ideal job for one thing. They have very high expectations for work. They expect work to be enjoyable and self-fulfilling, and of course that’s not easy work to find. So they change jobs a lot during their 20s. The average number of job changes from age 20 to 29, according to the U.S. Department of Labor, is seven. They are trying to find a job that suits them just right, that pays reasonably well and that they can look forward to going to in the morning.
Read more: http://www.foxbusiness.com/personal-finance/2010/09/28/peter-pan-generation-wallet/#ixzz1PYXYECEf
I started paying into the system between 8th & 9th grade when I worked at a Dairy Queen. Before that time it was paper routes, grass cutting, caddy, and other odds & ends. Right before I turned 16 I started an 'office' type job answering telephones after school at the Pittsburgh Press Circulation Department. The following year I picked up an additional job at St Francis Hospital shaving people the night before surgery.
By the time I finished high school in 81, college was unaffordable. I didn't qualify for help because of the amount of money that my father made. He wanted me to "earn" my way through school but at a 14.5% APR to be payed back while I was in school....I left the house and went into the Marines.
Now I'm seeing the 'entitlement mentality' with my oldest daughter. She hasn't worked a day in her life, every once in a while I force her to come outside and do some yard work but it is like pulling teeth. She always has some commitment.
She was shocked when she turned 16 and I didn't buy her a car. I told her that she would need to come up with 20% of the initial cost and I would cover everything else except gas and maintenance. When she got her license, I took it away until she pays $45 a month for her insurance (it's $89 a month but I'm giving her a break). She still hasn't gotten a part time job, she doesn't want to work at a convienance store or another job like that, only at a dance studio which she can't until she turns 18.
She wont be competing this year at Perry because she hasn't been practicing. Everytime there is a match at Quantico she came up with an excuse not to go. She felt that she only had to go to Camp Butner in June and then Camp Perry in August to be part of the team. The team coach didn't help either, he was okay with her thinking, he just wanted as many juniors on the team as possible.
She's looking at colleges...Princeton, NYU, Columbia, William & Mary.... She doesnt' want to go to a 'state' college. I'm hoping that she finally opens her eyes but as of yesterday...it isn't looking to good.
She showed me an exchange program with William & Mary (24k a year) and a school in Scotland (30k a year not including board).
I'm hoping that she finally ditches the entitlement mentality this year.
I usually agree with ya but not here :) heheheheheh
saying that you cant get that by moving into the guest house ?
maybe you would not have but I never speak for other people ?
in HS I worked and saved up for a single arcade game (defender) put it in a local store it made enough to buy another (Pac man) those two bought 4 those 4 bought 8 and so on
all on my own in HS and at 17 making over 50K a year in the early 80s is a huge sense of accomplishment all with no help from anyone
that made me enough to open a skateboard and bicycle shop by my early 20s I had built it into one of the 3 largest skate shops on the west coast ! and making solid 6 figures a year
so in my early 20s buying out the commercial property my shop was in and building a business I would say that is a HUGE sense of accomplishment and gives you confidence !!!!
got out of the business at 27 and know I have put away enough to go do my next dream of diving and photographing underwater world which I did for 15 years
maybe my parents saw I was productive kid and not a bum !
when I moved out I rented 400 sqft for a long time cost about $1000 with utilities and that was over 20 years ago cost that much !
also the first place I bought was 720 sqft ! but you have to think that was over $300,000 cost of living on Maui is totally dif than here on the mainland ?
now at 48 I am just a normal guy work hard to make a living took a beating with the economy down turn and have kids
but my early life was a dream :)
I wasn't suggesting you haven't accomplished anything. If what you say is true you rightfully have a sense of accomplishment as a result of the business you built.
But I was noting the difference between completely supporting yourself and NOT completely supporting yourself. One simply comes with a greater sense of accomplishment.
I also don't know why you didn't get your own place if you were making 50k by high school. Seems you could have done it if you wanted to but decided not to.
Belmont31R
06-17-11, 13:35
And you think this makes your generation special? I was born in the 40's. I started paying SS tax in 1961 and, when it began, Medicare in 1966, and I am still paying them. And because I am self employed I get to pay both the employee and employer shares.
Unless I get really sick, and I sure try to stay healthy, I'll never see all of my money back, not even close. So please don't lump me in with the benefits = 3 times contribution crowd. That is an average number and is highly affected by the sick and lazy on other end of the scale that are taking out way more than 3x you refer to, some who have never paid in a dime.
And there are plenty of older people like me that resent it just like you do. There is no need to make it a generational issue.
Im talking about the cumulative effect of multiple generations before mine, and yes I know every working person today has to pay for it.
At the same time this thread was more or less just about the fact my generation is saddled with the lazy/entitled branding, and me just pointing out the fact nearly every entitlement we have going today in this country came before our time from previous generations.
Belmont31R
06-17-11, 13:47
You don't need to change anything. At 15 I detassled corn for LESS than minimum wage. I had to sign a form agreeing to it.
You need not change anything but childrens expectations of things and parents roles as parents. Me and every other kid in Iowa detassled corn because it was a job we could get and needed money and our parent's didn't spit out currency like an ATM.
Of course our parents were interested in teaching us how to provide for ourselves rather than trying to be our bestest buddy in the world. I think about the parents I know who are more concerned with not being "the bad guy" than they are about preparing their kids to one day become adults and it makes me angry.
That is because they are producing an entire population of over grown babies who can't fend for themselves and the only thing meaningful they learned how to do is not shit on themselves. They don't respect others or anything because they've never had to work for anything they have.
I bet there are still kids out there doing that today or washing dishes or sweating out in a field somewhere. Of course even when you were young there were privileged kids who never had to do any shit jobs. Of course kids now have to compete with illegal aliens at a rate older generations didn't have to. Lots of them in kitchens, fields, doing yard work, ect. I used to work my butt off around our little ranch with all the animals we had, mowing the lawns, and I washed dishes in a restaurant. You just have to look in the right spots to see hard working kids, and it really just depends on where you live and who you know. One of my buddies kicked his 18 yo daughter out of the house because she needed to grow up, and wasn't doing anything. Now she works and pays for her own place. Learned real quick. On the other hand my MIL coddles my SIL who probably isn't going to graduate HS, provided a car for her, and lets her go out with friends all the time. Never helps out around the house, is rude and talks back....my wife was the complete opposite, and we are saving towards buying some land so our kids can grow up outside of suburbia. I did and am so glad for it.
Belmont31R
06-17-11, 13:49
Here in the land of plenty generations of Americans and illegal aliens have been conditioned to go with out want. This in part has bred a culture of complacency and lackadaisicalness which contributes to this heightened sense of entitlement.
My grandfather is 93, a WWII vet of the European theatre, and grew up during the Great Depression. As a small child my father lived in rural AR, they had no indoor plumbing (they used a two holer and pumped their water from a well), no electricity, and he remembers seeing snakes slither on the ground under the house through the floor boards.
Today people go ape shit if their high speed internet connection so much as hiccups momentarily or their Apple personal electronic device is more than a week old. There is a large percentage of the populace that has a cold hard reality coming down the pipe.
You can say the same thing about old people who have little savings and live almost entirely off SS and medicare. If those checks and payments ever stop they will have nothing.
Belmont31R
06-17-11, 14:02
I'm hoping that she finally ditches the entitlement mentality this year.
Read above about my SIL. My MIL can't or won't discipline her, and she is lazy.
She came out here to visit us, we went out to eat, and she tried to do the texting thing while at dinner. I told her if she is going to eat with us she isn't going to spend dinner looking down at the phone tapping away and if she wants to text she can stay at the house and Ill leave a box of mac n cheese out. I guess she said something about it my wife later and my wife told her I was right...she hasn't even mentioned coming out here this summer...;)
I feel sorry for whoever marries that one...
Belmont31R
06-17-11, 14:16
I wasn't suggesting you haven't accomplished anything. If what you say is true you rightfully have a sense of accomplishment as a result of the business you built.
But I was noting the difference between completely supporting yourself and NOT completely supporting yourself. One simply comes with a greater sense of accomplishment.
I also don't know why you didn't get your own place if you were making 50k by high school. Seems you could have done it if you wanted to but decided not to.
It can be a cultural thing. You see it with Asians a lot where there are 3 or sometimes 4 generations living under one roof, and they all help each other out. Grand parents can help around the house and help watch the kids while the parents work. Its extremely difficult for a family now to have both parents working with no outside help from family. I know it is for us....my sister has lots of help from her husbands family.
I think more people are doing this now anyways with the economy, and it makes sense from an economic stand point. Granted we like our privacy, and my mom died a couple years ago I wouldn't think bad of anyone living with family.
I should have saved it but years ago I read a really long article on how family dynamics have changed, and how a middle class family needs two incomes now to equal one of the past. Education requirements, higher standard of living, increasing taxes, ect. For instance my first job out of the mil required me to have a home PC, printer, cell phone, and a few other things. None of those things even existed all that long ago. Earlier this year I saw a job posting for a sales person in a mobile phone store, and they wanted a bachelors degree. To sell phones in a store for $12/hr. So todays "kids" are going out into life with more debt to get education, and getting shittier jobs...especially with the high unemployment. Ive talked with some business people who do hiring, and they are getting people with masters degrees applying for 14/hr office manager jobs. They said 4-5 years ago they would have paid 20/hr, and maybe gotten someone with a ba.
At the same time this thread was more or less just about the fact my generation is saddled with the lazy/entitled branding, and me just pointing out the fact nearly every entitlement we have going today in this country came before our time from previous generations.
Got it. And I was talking about the incorrect news bite floating around that people on SS and MC cost 3X their contribution. I don't and there are plenty like me. Sure there are some, but for the most part it is the unhealthy freeloaders at the high end of the scale who have contributed little or not at all that really screws up the the average.
You can say the same thing about old people who have little savings and live almost entirely off SS and medicare. If those checks and payments ever stop they will have nothing.
You are absolutely correct about this.
I told her if she is going to eat with us she isn't going to spend dinner looking down at the phone tapping away and if she wants to text she can stay at the house and Ill leave a box of mac n cheese out.
Bless you for this.
I think more people are doing this now anyways with the economy, and it makes sense from an economic stand point. Granted we like our privacy, and my mom died a couple years ago I wouldn't think bad of anyone living with family.
If you look up unemployment and inflation rates, they were actually worse in the early 80s than they are now. When I moved out in the mid 80s they had improved and it was about like it is right now.
I wasn't suggesting you haven't accomplished anything. If what you say is true you rightfully have a sense of accomplishment as a result of the business you built.
But I was noting the difference between completely supporting yourself and NOT completely supporting yourself. One simply comes with a greater sense of accomplishment.
I also don't know why you didn't get your own place if you were making 50k by high school. Seems you could have done it if you wanted to but decided not to.
no lies it was true :)
but dont agree on the greater sense ?
thats something you had to do for yourself ! to feel your goal was accomplished ? you can not say someone who did not share your goal did NOT get the same as you did !!!
I created the ability for others to be free and make money ! depending on what job you had then ? think I was one of the people creating jobs so that people like yourself could move out !
in my eyes that is a greater sense of accomplishment than paying rent to someone else ?
in your eyes it was the other way around ?
so we both had goals and reached them ! which I think is more about the thread that we worked to achieve our goals and did not just sit and work the system to get where we wanted to go !
the way I was raised renting a place was actually a negative and giving my money away to someone else was a negative ?
as the guest house goes :) the place was a separate cabin I paid everything utilities food etc.. again only thing I did not do was sign a rent check !
if I was in the basement ? chances are I would have been gone for sure :) but I was lucky they had a guest house
if my kids want to stay and save money by not throwing it down someone elses pocket I will support that ? thats the way I was brought up and my wifes parents felt the same thing
I plan on trying to have a second home they can move into like I had so they can get more solid founding before they move out on their own but they wont just live their and soak off the system which is more what the thread was about they will maintain and pay for everything like I did just not pay the rent ? no biggy in my eyes
again my dad made me get a job as a dishwasher when I was 15 so I would know what it was like ! that sucked so I decided to get a job I liked and at 16 I was detailing cars so I quickly learned that I wanted to be on the other end cause even that kinda sucked :) heheheh
so being on the other side and creating the jobs was the side I wanted
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