View Full Version : Why change from my A1/A2 muzzle device to a break/flashider?
bsmith_shoot
06-19-11, 22:26
Im writing this post with the thought that a lot of new guys are lurking around on the forum. Ive seen a lot of posts popping up about "which break" or "which flashhider" should I use? So I wanted to see if we could create a thread that explains why each of us chose to stray away from our factory provided muzzle devices? To go into detail about why we chose to go with a break/flashider/suppressor adaptor, instead of what we had.
Innevitably, it all boils down to personal preferance, and necessity, but hopefully it will help a new guy in deciding what he needs, or dont need.
snake eater 332
06-19-11, 23:12
In CT, we still have a pseudo AWB in place which limits the number of 'evil features' you can have on any post-ban assault rifle to 2 features, which includes flash hider, folding/collapsible stock, pistol grip, bayonet lug, and detachable magazine. Since AR's already come with a detachable magazine and pistol grip, we're kinda stuck with the no flash hider part in most cases. So it's a choice of which muzzle break we want on our rifles. I have a Surefire MB556K muzzle break on my AR because I intend to get a Surefire QD suppressor in the near future.
Leonidas24
06-20-11, 01:29
I have used a KX3, A2 birdcage, and most recently an MB556K brake on my SBR. I really liked the A2 for the simplicity and decent reduction of flash but like the poster above me I eventually plan on buying a K-can in the not-so-distant future. I at some point read that a muzzle brake can aid in reducing baffle erosion, but I can't say that with any scientific certainty as to why I chose a brake over a flash hider.
As for right now my SBR has absolutely no muzzle rise and is extremely light on recoil making it really easy for follow up shots, but at the same time I wouldn't turn to this gun first as an HD gun for fear of blinding and deafening myself, and likely also deafening the person in the adjacent room, friend or foe. For now, it's on there as a recoil reduction device, and later as a suppressor mount.
I am all about the factory A2 flash hider. I love the classic look!
Moose-Knuckle
06-20-11, 04:20
This topic always seems to generate heated debates. For guy's behind the lines in Commie states breaks might be their only choice. The fact some may choose to utilize a suppressor may opt for one as well.
As for me and mine the A2 serves it's purpose and is usually free or cheap.
I forget, but there is a FM that documents the doctrine concerning breaks vs flash suppressors on combat rifles.
My personal guns wear the A2.
Magic_Salad0892
06-20-11, 05:42
If a suppressor isn't in the future, I'd be willing to say the A2 FH is probably the best option, especially value wise.
If a suppressor isn't in the future, I'd be willing to say the A2 FH is probably the best option, especially value wise.
Thanks for reminding me.
One of my personal guns that stays suppressed wears an Ops brake/mount. The other gun that I put the can on has an A2 Ops mount. :p
I'm recoil/flash insensitive. Frankly, I couldn't GAS less what's on the end of the barrel.
bsmith_shoot
06-20-11, 08:52
I run only A2's on my rifles, and will buy a Halo when I get a can, just so I can keep them.
I've purchased a AAC M4-2000 (waiting on ATF) and both my rifles now have the 51T Brakeout Comp on them.
I've found that the brake does wonders for muzzle rise. I really do like the Brakeout Comp.
In CT...... I have a Surefire MB556K muzzle break on my AR because I intend to get a Surefire QD suppressor in the near future.
CT people should keep in mind that a suppressor is considered a flash hider by state law and is no-go for use on post ban rifles.
I used to think the A2 was fine but depending on what you're doing and what ammo you're doing it with more flash suppression may be necessary. As has been learned in Afg.
I've not found anything that I'd replace an A2 flash hider with. It's not the best at any ONE thing, but it's the best overall muzzle device for me.
Same here. The A2 does its job well. I keep that on my AR's. My SBR will runn something different for a can. Like another poster said, I would like to go with the HALO also
As a civilian it is unlikely that I will be in a shooting at a location with no ambient light or face an adversary with NODs. For a title II rifle the A2 is in all likelihood all I need. On an 11" gun with military ammunition the signature can be downright obnoxious and my preference would be for a more effective unit. In Afghanistan the military is finding that from 14.5 and 10.5" barrels the signature is drawing enemy fire and they've tamped up the issuance of suppressors and blackout flash suppressors. I expect at some point in the future line units will have suppressors as a standard item.
snake eater 332
06-20-11, 15:28
CT people should keep in mind that a suppressor is considered a flash hider by state law and is no-go for use on post ban rifles.
Not entirely true. CT state law is ambiguous in regards to sound suppressors/silencers as it does not define what one is at all statutorily. From what I understand, the BATFE defines a suppressor/silencer as a sound and flash suppressor, which is a Federal definition, but CT does not address it.
Many people in CT own suppressed post-ban rifles and suppressors are legally sold by Class 3 dealers. I know LE and civilians who own such weapons. There is also a Class 3 Match held annually in CT and there have never been any issues regarding these weapons.
Being in LE myself, I've contacted the CT State Police Licensing and Firearms Unit, the guys we in CT LE would call with questions about guns and gun law for advice, and they can't or won't provide a clear answer because I believe they are unsure as well. The only true way to know would be if a case were to be brought upon someone and tried in court, unfortunately.
As it stands right now, it seems that if it is illegal to affix a suppressor to a post-ban, then it is likely being overlooked and/or not enforced due to the ambiguity in written CT law. Furthermore, if it isn't explicitly defined as illegal by law, then wouldn't it be legal?
Safe bet would be to use a pre-ban lower for sure, though.
Clobbersauras
06-20-11, 20:38
The A2 is very hard to beat for the benefits it provides and its low cost. I can shoot better with other comps/brakes, but always at the cost of more flash and blast. It just depends what is important to you. I want to shoot faster and maintain accuracy, so the A2 sits in the parts bin.
This is a good thread as I have been thinking of replacing the A2 flash hider on my duty AR with a battlecomp. I thought the BC was supposed to be just as good at hiding flash as an A2 but with the added benefit of compensating. Anyone that has it can you confirm its at least as good as an A2?
Im writing this post with the thought that a lot of new guys are lurking around on the forum. Ive seen a lot of posts popping up about "which break" or "which flashhider" should I use? So I wanted to see if we could create a thread that explains why each of us chose to stray away from our factory provided muzzle devices? To go into detail about why we chose to go with a break/flashider/suppressor adaptor, instead of what we had.
Innevitably, it all boils down to personal preferance, and necessity, but hopefully it will help a new guy in deciding what he needs, or dont need.
Great question.
Your choice of muzzle device starts with knowing or figuring out what factors are important to YOU for your intended uses and selecting the device that meets those needs best.
It may be helpful to list some muzzle device performance factors in no particular order.
Primary Factors:
- Accuracy / POI
- Flash
- Noise / Blast
- Muzzle rise
- Recoil
Secondary Factors:
- Cost
- Length and Weight
- Back pressure / Cycling
- Suppressor Mounting Capability
- Caliber / Thread availability
- Appearance / CDI Factor
Many devices focus on one primary factor ( like flash reduction ) and are very effective at that one thing, but sacrifice performance on other factors.
Some combo devices address several factors, and may do many things well. However, they generally are not as good as the dedicated device at any particular factor.
So, good advice would be to start with the A2, shoot it a lot, determine if it works for you or not and go from there.
Spoke to a Ranger last night about this. He said they had to use cans at night in Afghanistan or their muzzle flashes would draw fire. I suspect then that the A2 fs will be on it's way out.
TX Rancher
06-24-11, 07:56
The A2 works fine for me in general but I do have two rifles that I use with NOD's and on them I run a Vortex.
The Dumb Gun Collector
06-24-11, 08:09
I am happy to see that so many folks think the same way I do about the A2. I have never been able to detect a problem with it. It does a very decent job at everything--and is free. I run AAC blackouts, but I do have a suppressor that uses them so it makes sense for me.
bsmith_shoot
06-24-11, 08:12
Spoke to a Ranger last night about this. He said they had to use cans at night in Afghanistan or their muzzle flashes would draw fire. I suspect then that the A2 fs will be on it's way out.
Am I wrong, but doesnt the A2 flashider work as a QD attachment for the Halo? I thought that the Halo was the primary can for US armed forces. I might be wrong though, probably am.
Magic_Salad0892
06-24-11, 12:53
Am I wrong, but doesnt the A2 flashider work as a QD attachment for the Halo? I thought that the Halo was the primary can for US armed forces. I might be wrong though, probably am.
GemTech does not have any US Military contract that I'm aware of.
The primary 5.56N suppressor for US Military is Knights QDSS-NT4.
Which has a A2 FH mount of it's own.
+1 for personal preference.
I have the Battlecomp 1.0 and love it. I plan on doing some 3-gun stuff, yet still want "some" flash hiding.
I don't play in stacks anymore, so the concussion is not an issue... For me.
That said, there is nothing wrong with the A2 for 99% of the applications out there CONUS.
I have A1 and A2 hiders on my guns. I'm not opposed to others, I just don't seem to benefit from them. Admittedly, there are a few recent offerings I'd like to try, if only to keep current.
When comparing hiders, most will utilize high-speed still photography or video to compare them. As expected, that can bring out the most minute differences between them. Most will overestimate the effect on the shooter and shooter performance though, a more important measure than trying to actually quantify flash.
That's not to say flash has no effect, nor is minimizing or eliminating it bad, it's just one of those things folks seem to sweat more than they need to.
On the upside, many of the flash hiders improving on the GI types are pretty inexpensive, hold value, and have a near infinite service life so little is lost in experimenting.
I've never cared to use more than an A2 and all my rifles still wear that or equivalent. But in some applications is apparently matters.
bsmith_shoot
06-24-11, 15:03
GemTech does not have any US Military contract that I'm aware of.
The primary 5.56N suppressor for US Military is Knights QDSS-NT4.
Which has a A2 FH mount of it's own.
Your right, and I knew this, brain-fart on my part.
The two FSC556s that I've purchased have changed my life (not really). I don't think I can go back to a birdcage.
ONEmanWOLFpack
07-01-11, 19:45
Perfect thread for a newb like myself. I have been debating replacing my A2 for the Griffin Armament M4-SD Tactical Compensator. Thought it would help me stay on target better. Anyone have any thoughts about this?
Agreed that this s a good discussion for newbs. Not a newb to guns or AR's from my Army time, but new in the realm of AR ownership. 3 gun is something I'd like to do more often and am considering THIS (http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=31063/pid=12789/Product/_223_Muzzle_Brake) on mine. Looking to mitigate muzzle rise on a 16" Lightweight build THREAD HERE (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=84137). Any have first hand with it?
Excellent thread, thank you OP!
Bushmaster-M4A3
07-05-11, 03:00
Good thread about flash hiders. I personally like Phantom over A2, but the original design is pretty good and simple. No real reason to change out unless you absolutely have problem with flash signature.
Perfect thread for a newb like myself. I have been debating replacing my A2 for the Griffin Armament M4-SD Tactical Compensator. Thought it would help me stay on target better. Anyone have any thoughts about this?
Instruction, technique, training, and (meaningful) practice will trump mechanical solutions every time for a new shooter.
This applies to triggers, brakes, etc. About the only mechanical device that has been shown to improve the ability to get hits across the spectrum of ability is optics: red-dots for near-to-medium range, magnified for medium-to-long range.
Some people start out with a new endeavor, encounter challenges, and attempt to circumvent the challenges with cash. Others acknowledge the challenge, understand that the solution is software not hardware, and understand that resolving the software problem is something no amount of cash can buy.
Am I wrong, but doesnt the A2 flashider work as a QD attachment for the Halo? I thought that the Halo was the primary can for US armed forces. I might be wrong though, probably am.
The main official can has been the KAC M4 QD (the latest version of which is the QDSS NT-4).
Certain units have contracts and large numbers of AAC and SF cans as well. Some Halos have definitely been in service.
There is finally some legitimate motion in the direction off getting better flash hiders and eventually suppressors for our guys in general.
http://www.military.com/news/article/services-working-to-cut-weapon-flash-sound.html
A1 flash hider: All the style and function of the A2, with no need to index.
philipeggo
07-11-11, 14:07
A chart or a sticky of some kind regarding this subject would be super. seems like every week a new flash hiding doodad is coming out. Some way to wade through the confusion would be super.
militarymoron
07-11-11, 14:30
A1 flash hider: All the style and function of the A2, with no need to index.
not exactly - the A1 is a hider and the A2 is a compensator, and functions a bit differently. the A1 doesn't have the compensation effect or reduced dust signature that the closed bottom ports on the A2 provide.
As someone in a ban state, I've found the FSC556 to be preferable to other brakes or even a crowned barrel for a couple of reasons. First, the FSC does a great job controlling the muzzle rise. I've shot AR's with an A2 and notice a significant difference. The trade-off is the FSC is marginally louder and gives off a more noticable concussion than the A2. Other brakes have proven to be much more obnoxious in this regard. Second, the FSC does a very good job limiting the flash compared to other brakes. I'd say there isn't much difference between the A2 and the FSC flash signatures. Finally, the FSC comes with the handy-dandy BATFE letter stating it is not a flash suppressing device. Behind enemy lines, the FSC556 seems to be the best alternative for those wanting a compliant muzzle device.
condition 1
07-12-11, 18:24
Same here. The A2 does its job well. I keep that on my AR's. My SBR will runn something different for a can. Like another poster said, I would like to go with the HALO also
The new'er HALOs (post 09) I think, will take A1, A2, VORTEX, BC2.0,
I use the A1 with no peel washer, or a VORTEX, the one thing I like about the VORTEX/HALO is it will only go on in 4 positions, it kinda clocks its self... The HALO is a little heavy, but its a good can.
Black Jeep
07-12-11, 18:55
I am happy to see that so many folks think the same way I do about the A2. I have never been able to detect a problem with it. It does a very decent job at everything--and is free. I run AAC blackouts, but I do have a suppressor that uses them so it makes sense for me.
I'm partial to the free part of the A2 as well.
There are some things that I will tinker with even if nothing is wrong with it just to squeeze a little more of a desired result out of the object. I'm that way with my Harley, but I know a lot more about them. However, I don't know enough about the AR to go screwing around dumping money into every possible "upgrade" to make it worth my time and money or risk screwing something up. For some things the adage, "If it ain't broke don't fix it." is sage advice.
My use of differing flash hiders/comps is more from curiosity than anything else. Miculek, blackout for aac can, a2, etc... Blackout for can is mandatory, but I wanted the others for F/A to try to reduce movement as much as possible. But, I admit, I'm still looking for the perfect flash hider/comp, and will probably be looking for a while longer. On the other hand I agree with markm, the a2 not the best at one thing, but it is still one of the best all around especially for semi.
ClearedHot
07-13-11, 03:07
The A2's performance is more than adequate on carbine and rifle length guns. However on SBR's, you might want a muzzle device with better flash suppression.
On two of mine, I changed the A2 out for YHM Phantom Q/D's. I run my Phantom can on these. On my BCM Middy I run a Troy Medievil, but only because I got it for nothing. Other wise I probably would have stuck with the A2. Bang for your buck, it's hard to beat.
LightningFast
07-17-11, 17:57
Very informative thread. I was going to order a battlecomp immediately for my first AR, but I think I am going to start with an A2... see if I like it or not... and go from there.
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