View Full Version : Sig 1911's....Good?
I am looking to get a Sig Scorpion as I just saw one in person the other day. Overall, the gun looks, feels great....When I think 1911 I do not think of Sig, but these seem to be pretty nice...What is the general consensus here on these guns?
Thx
Last I heard all the parts were tool steel, not mim. That however could have changed for the worse.
Can't speak to the Scorpion, but I have one of the Sig Blackwater 1911s and have had zero issues with it. It shoots everything I've fed it from factory ball to my handload lead SWC. I've been happy with my Sig..................
El Pistolero
06-21-11, 09:16
I've heard good things about the Sig 1911s as well, the fact that they have no MIM parts is a selling point, if that matters to you.
I have only great things to report from my 1st Gen. Sig GSR 1911 as well. With an admittedly low round count, it has been 100% and dead nuts accurate.
OP: Please check your PMs. Thanks!
Littlelebowski
06-21-11, 11:47
Don't touch anything new from Sig. Straight from Larry Vickers.
Don't touch anything new from Sig. Straight from Larry Vickers.
Agreed. The Sig 1911s have improved since their introduction about 7 years ago. However, they are still not a duty ready firearm out of the box.
If you want a duty ready firearm, expect to pay about $1400 that gets you a Les Baer TRS or Springfield / Colt that has some reliability work. If you want a hard use 1911, expect to pay north of $2K for a TRP PRO, Wilson, NH, EB, etc.
BTW, these amounts are what it takes to enter the 1911 game. More money and time will be spent keeping it running.
My GSR had numerous failures to extract and double feeds. I sent it into the factory twice with no change in reliability. Using wwb, and federal ball ammo with Wilson and Novak mags. That was at least 3 years ago so things could have changed. It got traded for a glock 19 very reliable.
No problem with my TACOPS so far.
Littlelebowski
06-21-11, 13:51
No problem with my TACOPS so far.
You need to quantify that statement on this forum. No problems at which classes? No problems for 100 rds? No problems after not adding lube or cleaning for x amount of rounds?
Littlelebowski
06-21-11, 13:53
Agreed. The Sig 1911s have improved since their introduction about 7 years ago. However, they are still not a duty ready firearm out of the box.
If you want a duty ready firearm, expect to pay about $1400 that gets you a Les Baer TRS or Springfield / Colt that has some reliability work. If you want a hard use 1911, expect to pay north of $2K for a TRP PRO, Wilson, NH, EB, etc.
BTW, these amounts are what it takes to enter the 1911 game. More money and time will be spent keeping it running.
That's pretty much what Vickers says. He also says other things about 1911s that many people who cannot begin to question his 1911 experience won't like :D
Failed the bucket test...miserably. No thanks.
There's better choices to be had in the $800-1200 range
Have about 5,000 rounds through my Sig GSR RCS (melted carry, 4.25" barrel, Officer's grip (7rds)).
At first, would choke up often with WWB, but would run great with Blazer aluminum and brass.
Sent it back to Sig and they replaced the extractor. In about the 500 rds since, it's choked up once, when I lent it it to a friend to shoot (stovepipe).
I probably should have purchased a S&W 1911 instead.
YMMV.
Littlelebowski
06-21-11, 14:53
I am looking to get a Sig Scorpion as I just saw one in person the other day. Overall, the gun looks, feels great....When I think 1911 I do not think of Sig, but these seem to be pretty nice...What is the general consensus here on these guns?
Thx
Copy and paste the text in the box below into Google. Read.
sig cohen site:m4carbine.net
cochraneap
06-21-11, 15:42
The Sig 1911s run well, but I'm not a fan of the shape of their slides or the high prices. S&W 1911s are the bargain right now, but I love a good deal on a lightly used Kimber too.
El Pistolero
06-21-11, 17:19
Don't touch anything new from Sig. Straight from Larry Vickers.
What's the story on the newer Sigs? I know Sig has a bad rap these days but all I ever owned myself was one of those surplus P6s and it was great (not relevant to this thread or current gen of Sigs of course).
But the reason I ask is this isn't the first time I've heard that the newer Sigs suck so I tend to believe it, but I ask because I'm deciding between an HK or a Sig for my next CCW piece to replace my Kahr and I'm leaning more and more towards the HK. PM me if you'd like since I'm asking about Sigs quality in general and not specifically about 1911s which is the topic of this thread.
I own a Sig GSR, i bought back in 2009. I am not impressed with it at all. When i first got it it the Novak mags that came with it both broke(craked feed lips, towards the rear of the mag after about 50-80 rounds, it also wouldnt extract shells reliably. Called Sig they sent me two new sig 8 round mags and i bought a couple kimber 8rd mags and a couple Wilson Combat 8 rounders, i found that only the WC mags would work with 8 rounds, the sig mags worked good with 7 rounds, but the pistol would still not extract at least 50 percent of the time. Again i called sig they emailed me a ups mailing label and had me send the gun in, i got it back with in a about week. If i remember right they just replaced the external extractor. The gun worked after that with Wilson Combat mags only,which is ok buy me. i would not even consider this gun it for serious use, it usually begins malfunctioning(double feeds/fte's) after around 150-200 rounds with out cleaning and properly lubed with either heavy grease or clp. Its a accurate pistol andworks good for me for a USPSA type shooting and a little wannabe high speed 1911 commando plinking but all said and done a pistol i wish i had passed on.
What's the story on the newer Sigs? I know Sig has a bad rap these days but all I ever owned myself was one of those surplus P6s and it was great (not relevant to this thread or current gen of Sigs of course).
But the reason I ask is this isn't the first time I've heard that the newer Sigs suck so I tend to believe it, but I ask because I'm deciding between an HK or a Sig for my next CCW piece to replace my Kahr and I'm leaning more and more towards the HK. PM me if you'd like since I'm asking about Sigs quality in general and not specifically about 1911s which is the topic of this thread.
Ok, here is the deal. The SIG 1911 started out as a righteous 1911 program. The very first one's were as close to a custom pistol at a production price as you will ever see, but that was a long time ago in a galaxy far far away when SIG was building quality guns.
Now they value saving a dollar over putting out a quality product that is befitting of their legacy.
It is basically a parts gun. SIG orders parts from different levels of vendors (not really brand name vendors, read here outsourcing) from all over the globe and basically assembles them. There is very little in the way of more then basic fitting. Depending on the quality of the parts that you get it will function fine depending on the tolerance stacking of that particular pistol and those particular parts. If that tolerance stack crosses the threshold due to out of spec parts it will stop working.
The most knowledgeable folks that drove the 1911 program left some time ago leaving folks that will do their best to correct & service their pistol but honestly don't have all of the experience necessary to truly custom fit it.
It is a game of percentages, if you are using it for range duty or compeition and don't mind possibly at some point having to send it off to another smith, your call. IF this is for any serious use STOP looking at them. Serious people that have used 1911's seriously do not have much use for them.
El Pistolero
06-21-11, 22:23
Interesting, thanks for the insight. FWIW the only Sigs I'm interested in are the legacy P22x-series, but the overall quality sounds like a management problem that affects all their products.
variablebinary
06-21-11, 23:21
I know a couple of guys that run SIG 1911's in 3-gun. These are high round count guns that didn't seem anymore problematic than other 1911's in the $1000 range.
Overall, I'd say SIG has definitely improved their 1911's since the early days of the GSR.
The last time that I was at the range qualifying, a couple of co-workers had new 1911's with them. One was a SIG 1911 (don't remember the model) that ran very well. The other was a Kimber "SIS" that couldn't get through a mag without a problem.
Here's a post I put on 1911forum.com
Took delivery of my first 1911 yesterday, a Sig Nitron Railed.
I had already ordered a few parts for it - magwell, SS busing & endcap. Took some pictures of the sear, disconnector & hammer as well, for those wondering what's MIM & what's not.
Couple of questions:
Can a magwell, bushing or endcap affect slide to frame fitment (flushness) in the rear? After I installed all the parts, I noticed a bit of a gap that's small but noticeable, and I'm not sure if it was there to begin with. I reinstalled the stock bushing & endcap, and it was still off by a hair.
Gap in question:
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e333/pbanto/1911/rear.jpg?t=1306962475
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e333/pbanto/1911/rear2.jpg?t=1306962432
Internals:
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e333/pbanto/1911/IMG_9571-Copy.jpg?t=1306962538
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e333/pbanto/1911/IMG_9577-Copy.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e333/pbanto/1911/IMG_9584-Copy.jpg
Upgrades:
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e333/pbanto/1911/IMG_9606.jpg?t=1306962506
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e333/pbanto/1911/IMG_9611.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e333/pbanto/1911/Untitled.png
Plunger staking:
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e333/pbanto/1911/IMG_9608.jpg?t=1306962510
http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/1910/img9626y.jpg
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/5586/img9627i.jpg
Since then, I've noticed that the frame underhang under the slide is common, as it is present on two other Sig 1911's that are at the shop. I've put around 150 rounds through it so far, with only 1 doublefeed when my buddy was shooting it (possible user error).
Thus far I've disabled the S80 slide & frame parts, planning to fit a standard 1911 slide with internal extractor as a project. I figure the cost of getting slide serrations cut & refinished is around the same price as a new slide, so might as well try it out.
Thus far on the pistol:
Fusion .120 chamfered bushing & thick flange
Fusion magwell
STI Aluminum trigger
XP firing pin spring
TJ customs S80 disable plate
EGW FPS
Painted front
Getting:
10-8/Warren blacked out rears
VZ aliens / dirty olive
Ambi safety
My .45 dies are coming in tomorrow, so I will definitely be putting this thing through a few hundred rounds. Will post results.
I had a SIG 1911, shot around 3,000 rounds through it before I decided that I wanted to consolidate all my pistols to 9mm. I never experienced any problems with it, and it actually had a better trigger than another 'name brand' $1,700 1911 I was shooting. I shot the hell out of it at Vickers classes (he said nothing about it one way or the other), and it held up fine. Would I get another? No. I liked it but there are as good or better 1911s around the same price. Would I have an issue having another? Not if it was the one I had. Like most everything SIG nowadays there are too many hits-and-misses with QC, and their guns are like Forest Gump's famous box of chocolates.
If I was going to buy a mid-range production 1911 (e.g. nicer than an RIA, not as nice as say a Springfield TRP) right now, I would look very hard at Smith and Wesson or Springfield's offerings.
I've got a Rev 2-Tone TTT that I just started shooting. I've got about 100 rounds through it including some lightly loaded 200gr SWC BE rounds. Thus far I haven't have any functioning issues. Fit and finish are good, and with the exception of the unique slide profile and external extractor all the parts are standard 1911.
The SIG forum is full of doom and gloom about the newer US made pistols, but there seem to be few actual complaints compared to the amount of people bitching that they'll never buy a new SIG. I also have a P220R Sport that's hasn't had any issues aside from not liking Blazer aluminum ammo. Anyone can build a bad gun. If I stayed away from every company that had bad press on an internet forum, I'd never own a gun.
I've got a Sig GSR in a commander slide. Nitron finish. I've got about 700 rounds through it. I do get the occasional out of battery (feeds the next round, but slide does not go back fully into battery), especially if it feeds low powered ammo like WWB or Fiocchi. I like way the gun shoots. It's dead accurate at the 25 yrd line. The stock trigger is very crisp, with no creep. I've yet to have issues with the external extractor. I may do some research and buy a new heavier recoil spring to see if that fixes the out of battery issues.
If I did (read Marylander :-( ) carry, the Sig would be one of the last guns I'd choose. If I want to go to the range and plink at a 25 yrd bull, I would definitely take it along.
I had already ordered a Scorpion a while back and have been waiting for a while now for it to arrive. Thanks god I seen this thread and had time to cancel my order with the dealer. Went up there this morning to look at a STI Trojan and the "E" series Smith's and ended up walking out with a Colt "80" series MK IV Government model 1911 that was used with 7 mags. Think I will be good for now until my dealer starts carrying the Les Baer's and Ed Brown's.
I've got a Sig GSR in a commander slide. Nitron finish. I've got about 700 rounds through it. I do get the occasional out of battery (feeds the next round, but slide does not go back fully into battery), especially if it feeds low powered ammo like WWB or Fiocchi. I like way the gun shoots. It's dead accurate at the 25 yrd line. The stock trigger is very crisp, with no creep. I've yet to have issues with the external extractor. I may do some research and buy a new heavier recoil spring to see if that fixes the out of battery issues.
If I did (read Marylander :-( ) carry, the Sig would be one of the last guns I'd choose. If I want to go to the range and plink at a 25 yrd bull, I would definitely take it along.
Might want to send it back to Sig. My gun would also fail to feed weak WWB rounds, but worked well with the hotter Blazer .45ACP. Once I sent it back and they replaced the extractor, it functioned a lot better with cheap WWB.
My Sig 1911 is also dead accurate--but I think that's true of the 1911 series in general. Did a clover leaf with it at 25 yards. :)
(Orange target on right)
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Xu7DZlIYZPA/TVsqBht7RiI/AAAAAAAAAnA/DKUeMNiowX4/s640/DSC_0399.JPG
sinjinhawk
06-29-11, 11:29
Sig have a reputation of producing quality pistol, but may take on the subject matter if you are really interested in getting a good reliable 1911 go get a Les Baer, Wilson and if those brand are beyond your budget then Springfield and you'll not regret it.
When I think 1911 I do not think of Sig,
This. Far too many quality 1911's in the price range to add the above who decided to jump on the 1911 bandwagon.
sinjinhawk
06-29-11, 16:09
Again if I have to purchased a 9mm pistol then Sig P226 is my #1 choice bar-none, but 1911 I don't care how nice they look feel or shoot it will be my last choice. By the way I have a P226 classic mid 80's production, has already almost 25,000 rds factory load ammo down the pipe and the next malfunction will be the first, that's what I call reliability in the highest regard.
DiabhailGadhar
04-08-12, 17:49
I know this thread is a little out dated, but I have basically the same question, with a twist. Would everyone agree that if the price of the Sig was roughly 30% cheaper would the hesitation to purchase one still exist knowing that the money saved would be spent increasing the performance and reliability where possible? Hopefully bringing the Sig on par with the other options mentioned. Needless to say I like Sigs but respect others opinions and prefer to learn form others first. If you would still stay away from the Sigs where would you start to look for a good base Thanks as usual for your advice..
Robb Jensen
04-08-12, 18:07
We quit stocking/selling Sig 1911s because over 90% had to go back to Sig to make them work. Some multiple times.
DiabhailGadhar
04-08-12, 20:15
We quit stocking/selling Sig 1911s because over 90% had to go back to Sig to make them work. Some multiple times.
Well that pretty much sums that up, thank you for your time...
tacti-cool
04-08-12, 20:20
I put about 100 rounds down my friends GSR. It shot well, I thought it was a very good feeling gun. I couldint shoot it very well due to the XS big dot sights and i never shot before.
While one data point does not make a line, here is one more data point:
SIG 1911 "Target."
Box "DATE" tag is "15-Dec-2010."
Round count so far is 1,000 - 1,200.
Per outing round count: usually 80-120. Gun was detail stripped, cleaned, and lubed on acquisition; has only been field stripped and cleaned since.
All rounds have been full power ball handloads (Win. 230 gr. bulk FMJ; 6.3 grains Unique; CCI LP; mixed commercial brass).
Six magazines: 2 SIG originals; 2 SIG after buys; 2 CMcKs.
While this is the "Target" model, all shooting has been action type drills, including some 16 rounds in under 10 seconds.
Results so far: not a single failure. Gun is tight (have to back the slide back, Commander-style, in order to twist the buffer with fingers). Best 1911 trigger I've ever experienced. Accurate (if I take my time, I can nail old shotgun shells at 10-30 yards).
Would I trust this pistol? You bet.
10-8/Hilton Yam have one in their possession for eval. It will be interesting to see what he has to say.
I've had nothing but problems with my Sig TacOps carry. I bought it to run a suppressor for HD but out of the box the gun would not even run itself, let alone a suppressor. Did the basics at first; polished the ramp and breach face but still ran like crap. Then found a large burr on the barrel link lug that was actually catching the barrel link; cut that off but still ran like crap. Disconnector was catching on the slide very hard so fixed that. Polished and blended alot of the internals, installed a 17 lbs main spring and installed a Wolff variable power spring. Finally got the thing running and thought I had it fixed but now it wants to throw brass at my face so a new EGW extractor will be on the way. Just trying to get the thing to run properly so I don't pass it on to some other unexpecting soul. Its a great looking gun, too bad it was not intended to be a safe or range queen. The price of the Sigs is intriguing for the features you get but the performance is not there IMO.
If you would still stay away from the Sigs where would you start to look for a good base Thanks as usual for your advice..
Springfield and Colt.
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