View Full Version : EOTech XPS torture test (pics)
22 June, 2011
I recently bought an XPS 2-0 because for a long time, I have been an Aimpoint fan. My dislike of EOTechs has been known for a very long time by those that know me, and all previous experiences with EOTechs has lead to failures of one sort or another. Seeing EOTechs fail while trying to zero, turning off and then not turning back on, and battery compartments failing to keep enough pressure on the batteries so the sight can work are mainly what I have seen. I have heard of other things like the sight falling off of weapons while firing are probably due to operator error IMO, but still show the problems with the sight mounting that, in my opinion, Aimpoints don’t have.
Today, I received my XPS 2-0 in the mail, and eagerly ripped open the package to see the almost pristine XPS 2-0 in the plastic case. I immediately took the thumb screw cross bolt and installed the hex key cross bolt. After co-witnessing the sight with my already zeroed irons, I turned the rifle over and dropped it on the floor, optic first. The rifle weighs about 8 pounds with the optic and mag in the weapon, and a one (1) foot drop gives the sight about a 200 G loading on it, given the carpet and floor probably flexed a little when the rifle hit it.
a = ∆V/∆t
a = 44.2 g
∆V = 4.42 - 0
∆t = .1s
I immediately checked the zero on the sight to see if it shifted at all and was not surprised that when co-witnessing, the reticule MOVED. I re-zeroed it and then did the test again. But this time the reticule didn’t move, and I was wondering what I had done differently between the first and second test. I found out later that the large aperture and small aperture sight pictures look different to me. When checking the two apertures, I noticed the exact same shift between large and small in the EOTech window. This is the first time that I have seen this happen, because my previous Aimpoints bloomed a slight amount, due to my astigmatism, and caused the dot to be about 4-6 MOA except in bright sunlight. My Troy sights also stay down 99% of the time so I never noticed this before. I have dropped the rifle optic first, condition three, about two dozen times now. It has yet to lose its co-witness zero. I am going to take it to the range and get an actual zero and start bashing the optic against a 4x4 about a hundred times to see if it loses its actual zero soon.
I am going to be dropping and bashing the EOTech more as I continue to use the rifle, and will be updating this thread as I go along. I will also be getting an ADM mount for the EOTech in a few days, and the next update will include a review for the EOTech + ADM mount. For now, here are some pictures.
http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr173/nimdabew/Guns/DSCN2709.jpg
http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr173/nimdabew/Guns/DSCN2712.jpg
http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr173/nimdabew/Guns/DSCN2710.jpg
I would also like to add that when comparing the weight of the XPS to the T-1 that sat on my rifle before, the EOTech is significantly heavier. I am not exactly sure how much heavier, but in my caveman style of weighing each in one hand at the same time, the EOTech feels about twice as heavy vs the T-1 in a Larue mount. More to come later.
I found out later that the large aperture and small aperture sight pictures look different to me. When checking the two apertures, I noticed the exact same shift between large and small in the EOTech window. This is the first time that I have seen this happen, because my previous Aimpoints bloomed a slight amount, due to my astigmatism, and caused the dot to be about 4-6 MOA except in bright sunlight. My Troy sights also stay down 99% of the time so I never noticed this before.
The reason why it appeared to move but did not has much to do with the nature of the small aperature sight. It acts like a lens (you'll also find that the reticle isn't as 'blurry' when looking at it through the small aperature for the same reason. The 0-2 sight is too big to act as a lens.
Here's a short video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5on1id-0m4Y
Singlestack Wonder
06-22-11, 15:14
Send it to DD and have them perform the same tests as they did with the Aimpoint T1.
https://danieldefense.com/TortureTest
The reason why it appeared to move but did not has much to do with the nature of the small aperature sight. It acts like a lens (you'll also find that the reticle isn't as 'blurry' when looking at it through the small aperature for the same reason. The 0-2 sight is too big to act as a lens.
Here's a short video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5on1id-0m4Y
Thank you Dave. The more you know!
Send it to DD and have them perform the same tests as they did with the Aimpoint T1.
https://danieldefense.com/TortureTest
I am going to attempt as many of those same tests as I can with this rifle and sight combo. I will video tape it as well.
subscribed definitely interested in this.
Chad
Make sure you remember to turn it on when the time comes that you need it most.
JeepDriver
06-22-11, 19:33
Beat the shit out of it.
This is the first Eotech I've been interested in, I want to use the ACOG on my MP15-22 on something else and have be debating getting an XPS for the MP15-22.
Make sure you remember to turn it on when the time comes that you need it most.
Please leave snarky comments like this out of the thread. I am doing a destructive test on the EOTech to see if it can stand up to abuse that Aimpoints have done in the past and to see if Aimpoints truly are more durable than EOTechs. If you read my post, it does say that I am an Aimpoint guy, and that all my previous RDS were Aimpoints.
Tagged for further info/testing
Want to see how it fares as well...
Well I like both optics, but I wound up getting both. Thanks optics planet for showing me the great sale as I was checking out w/ my OPMOD EXPS.
Subscribed; because I'd like to see the carnage that hopefully will ensue.
Interested in the outcome of this...
TacticalTyler
06-24-11, 15:19
Would like to see how this fairs against the aimpoint T1. Especially after Daniel Denfense did that torture test.
Just sighted the XPS in for 100. I will post when I have filmed the video which may be a week or two until I can get away form the FUD ranges and out in the country.
I have been playing around with the EOTech XPS 2-0 in my apartment and the local FUD range for a day or so now, getting the sight zeroed at 100 yards, playing with the tension on the locking lever on the ADM mount, and getting the feel for the sight. The last piece of the puzzle was the ADM EOTech mount. I hadn’t played with an ADM mount before yesterday nor seen one in person so I wasn’t sure what to expect.
The seller of the mount said that he had two Larue mounts and two ADM mounts. He sold the Larue mounts (right before I PMed him for one of them), but said that he had a ADM mount that I could buy instead. Since this sight was going to be a big experiment anyways, I obliged. I am a big fan of the locking lever. Unlike the Larue mount, where you swing a lever and the topside of the lever crushes the picatinny rail holding the mount in place, the ADM mount has a large clamp section that slides under the picatinny rail section that doesn’t mar the underside of the rail section. I couldn’t care less what the aesthetics of my rifle are as long as it works, but it may be a deciding factor with other buyers. (Some people may note that I am a bit of a geek and my rifles are an extension of that fact.) You may notice in the first picture that I witness marked the cross bolt of the mount. I did this because when the mount is off the weapon, the lever can be pushed with relative ease from the other side of the mount and the nut spun with your fingers. I did this without realizing once when I was playing around with the mount off the weapon.
The mount does retain zero when taken on and off the weapon, with only a .5” shift in POA/POI between five (5) mount/un-mounts with five (5) shot groups with each remount of the optic at 100 yards. Good enough for a combat optic IMO.
I did notice that the optic mount could be torqued with enough pressure due to the lever being at the back of the mount because of the design of the optic. I don’t know if this is the same for the Larue mount though. Videos of some tests when I can get out of the city and do some more fun stuff, but until then, be patient.
http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr173/nimdabew/DSCN2716.jpg
http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr173/nimdabew/DSCN2717.jpg
http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr173/nimdabew/DSCN2718.jpg
I have had an XPS on my duty 6920 for about a year now. After being thrown in squad cars rifle rack or bouncing around in trunk for so lomg its full of scratches, dents, and dings. Never had to adjust rezero since day one. I like the 8 hr shut off feature as I can turn it on at the begining of my shift and not worry about turning it off when I am done. I have other self defense tools at home so I dont need an optic thats running 24/7 on my duty rig.
Will be interested to see the OPs torture test.
shaneinhisroom
06-28-11, 08:10
I would be wholly impressed to see if the EoTech can last just half as long as the Aimpoint T-1...the weight doesn't help its inertial mass either when it's dropped or thrown...
I would be wholly impressed to see if the EoTech can last just half as long as the Aimpoint T-1...the weight doesn't help its inertial mass either when it's dropped or thrown...
Agreed. I have been considering an EoTech XPS2 or XPS3, but after watching the DD video it just seems foolish to not put the money toward a T1. The EoTech still interests the hell out of me, though.
Thanks OP for your work. I have a feeling we're all going to be surprised at the abuse that this thing can take.
Thanks for this test! I have been running an XPS-2 for over a year now. I dont throw it off a roof or anything but I am NOT easy on it by any means. Its pretty dinged up and fell out of the truck a few times.
I do like the fact it goes back to zero when re-mounted. Now if they could only do something about the battery life...it would be a serious competitor against Aimpoint (which I also own)
Tagged
FYI you can subscribe to a thread by clicking the Thread Tools button at the upper right of the thread. Jussayin'.
Question on your zero check at the range, were you using a rest or something with each remount and 5 shot string?
Question on your zero check at the range, were you using a rest or something with each remount and 5 shot string?
Yeah it was benched in a sandbag rest at a known distance range. Zero wind, about 50 degrees OAT and 60% humidity at about 300 feet ASL if you were wanting that information. The groups didn't wander at all, but the rifle has plastic handguards with 2 MOA ammo so comparative group size and shift was negliable at best.
mkmckinley
06-30-11, 20:29
I don't think it'll an Eotech will ever have the battery life of an Aimpoint. They're pretty damn on batteries though. I just wish you could turn off the auto-shutdown that happens every 8 hours.
Yeah it was benched in a sandbag rest at a known distance range. Zero wind, about 50 degrees OAT and 60% humidity at about 300 feet ASL if you were wanting that information. The groups didn't wander at all, but the rifle has plastic handguards with 2 MOA ammo so comparative group size and shift was negliable at best.
awesome, i know it was small, but was wondering if as much user error was removed for the testing was all, great job so far. looking forward to more :D
I don't think it'll an Eotech will ever have the battery life of an Aimpoint. They're pretty damn on batteries though. I just wish you could turn off the auto-shutdown that happens every 8 hours.
You are 100% correct, Eos will never compare to Aimpoints in battery life. Its the nature of having to project a bigger image on the Eos as opposed to a single dot on the Aimpoints.
Work2shoot
07-01-11, 05:37
You are 100% correct, Eos will never compare to Aimpoints in battery life. Its the nature of having to project a bigger image on the Eos as opposed to a single dot on the Aimpoints.
I think it's more of the laser vs LED reason.
Looking forward to an update soon. :)
I think it's more of the laser vs LED reason.
Yeah thats the obvious one :D
deadlyfire
07-12-11, 02:57
I don't think it'll an Eotech will ever have the battery life of an Aimpoint. They're pretty damn on batteries though. I just wish you could turn off the auto-shutdown that happens every 8 hours.
I NEVER appreciated the auto turn off feature.
Looking forward to an update soon. :)
I am going to a rock quarry this weekend. I will be bringing my helmet cam and hopefully some steel to confirm the zero on.
I am going to a rock quarry this weekend. I will be bringing my helmet cam and hopefully some steel to confirm the zero on.
Can't wait to see this!
CageFighter
07-13-11, 15:30
im considering going back to the EoTech after I sell my Viper PST 1-4x24 MOA. I believe the red dot will fit my shooting needs better.
Singlestack Wonder
07-13-11, 16:01
I am going to a rock quarry this weekend. I will be bringing my helmet cam and hopefully some steel to confirm the zero on.
Looking forward to the follow-up after the rifle is dropped a few hundred feet into the quarry.
Looking forward to the follow-up after the rifle is dropped a few hundred feet into the quarry.
Not quite that kind of quarry. They dug a big hole out of a mountain for building roads and left part of the hole there and years of PNW weather have filled it in a bit. There is a large flat area for who knows what, and lots of open space.
http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr173/nimdabew/Guns/2011-03-19125355.jpg
Singlestack Wonder
07-14-11, 08:12
Not quite that kind of quarry. They dug a big hole out of a mountain for building roads and left part of the hole there and years of PNW weather have filled it in a bit. There is a large flat area for who knows what, and lots of open space.
http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr173/nimdabew/Guns/2011-03-19125355.jpg
In that case it appears there is a rocky service with which to run over it with a truck. :D
I'm interested in seeing the outcome of this!
I own n ESPX 2.0 OPMOD. with the built in mount. I take it off every time I clean the rifle, and it returns right to zero without touching it.
I really want to see if these newer models hold up.
Driving home now. After 3 shotgun blasts, a jeep running it over, dropping it on gravel at 20 MPH, smashing it against a tree, and dropping it optic first on to gravel, the XPS still works. More detailed write up before the end of the weekend.
- Well... Here I am.
Driving home now. After 3 shotgun blasts, a jeep running it over, dropping it on gravel at 20 MPH, smashing it against a tree, and dropping it optic first on to gravel, the XPS still works. More detailed write up before the end of the weekend.
- Well... Here I am.
Can not wait to see this!!!My EXPS showed up yesterday :)
I am severely disappointed with the video. In most of the things, you can tell I am doing something with the rifle, but can't see exactly what. :( Will cut and slap together in a few though.
m1a_scoutguy
07-16-11, 22:02
Interesting for sure !!! And a "BIG" Thanks for potentially sacrificing a expensive Weapons Site !! I have a XPS3 and its been a great site,,,but I have never dropped abused or plan to drop or abuse the site,:eek:,so this will be a interesting Test for sure !!! Thanks again for taking the time to do this,,,I'll be watching !!! :D
Saturday, 16 July 2011
I went to my local shooting pit with my rifle and EOTech XPS 2-0. The purpose: to find out if I could get the sight to stop working through "normal" and extreme measures.
I started off simple: dropping the rifle optic first onto the ground. I confirmed zero with my irons, and also with shooting a 6" plate at 50 yards. The optic did fine, though had a slight gouge on the hood of the optic.
The next test was smashing the sight against a tree about 60 times. I succeeded in bending the hood and f*ing the finish up, but nothing else. I still had hits on the 6" plate at 50 yards, and the optic was still co-witnessed with my iron sights.
The next test was throwing it out of the back of a moving vehicle at 20 MPH onto the gravel road. The rifle hit the gravel road, optic first, and took a really good bounce before stopping about 20 feet from where I saw the rifle hit the gravel the first time. The force of the impact dented the hood of the EOTech hard enough that the hood is now touching the optic and it is bent sideways away from the adjustment screws. Co-witness was just fine, and the optic was still zeroed. Side note, the force was enough to knock the MIAD grip core out of the rifle and send it flying about 15 feet as well.
http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr173/nimdabew/Guns/DSC_6759.jpg
The penultimate test was to drive the rifle and optic over with the Jeep we rode in on. This proved too much for the mount, but the optic was just fine. The mount itself became loose, and I had to retighten the mount screw for it to not wobble on the upper receiver. The optic however now has the hood touching the inside of the optic, but was off by about 5 MOA or so. The optic and mount were no longer zeroed after having the Jeep drive over the rifle. There was also one small piece that broke on the inside of the optic that is now attached to the inside and top of my window. It doesn't appear to effect function of the optic though, and the optic is still "fine" in that it turns on and off and doesn't have a wandering reticule.
http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr173/nimdabew/Guns/DSC_6761.jpg
The last test is to shoot it with a 12 gauge. Three times. The load was Winchester 12 gauge 7 1/2 2.5" target loads that is common at Wal-Mart and the shotgun was a Remington 870 with an 18.5" barrel with a cylinder choke. The adjustment screws were facing away from the shotgun blasts. The optic is still on, but the zero wandered again because of a piece of the shot that managed to wedge itself under the mount and push the entire optic and mount up and to the right of where its POI was before the test.
http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr173/nimdabew/Guns/DSC_6767.jpg
My final thoughts: The EOTech is a lot tougher than I imagined it to be. This will be my go-to optic for red dots from now on because it has been run over, shot with a shotgun, dropped out of a moving vehicle onto a gravel road, beaten against a tree, and covered in mud and still functioned. The weak link in the whole process was the ADM mount, and I believe that is inherent with all the mounts for the EOTech because of how the EOTech mounts to the mount. I may try to get a new one from ADM because the current one is bent from getting run over by the Jeep, but I may just keep running with it. The optic still functions and the mount still holds onto the rail tight so I may just re-zero and live with it.
I don't know if I will be able to send it to EOTech after this test about the little bit floating on the inside of my window, but we shall see if they send me a new one or not.
More pictures:
http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr173/nimdabew/Guns/DSC_6775.jpg
http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr173/nimdabew/Guns/DSC_6764.jpg
http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr173/nimdabew/Guns/DSC_6772.jpg
http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr173/nimdabew/Guns/DSC_6771.jpg
Thanks for all the work and sacrificing your Eo, mount, and rifle. Its been a fun thread.
However, I can't help but wonder how a LaRue mount would have held up after being run over by the jeep.
Thanks for all the work and sacrificing your Eo, mount, and rifle. Its been a fun thread.
However, I can't help but wonder how a LaRue mount would have held up after being run over by the jeep.
I was thinking the same thing. The mount was bent because the ADM mount allowed wiggle on the front end of the mount. This, for some reason, caused the mount to not have the same tension on the rail even though the screw hadn't become loose. I had to re-tighten the mount so it would flop around.
Don't mind my shitty shooting. I had poor trigger control, but I think part of that was because my right hand was swelling from bashing the rifle into the tree. My left hand didn't hurt because of the larger area on the hand guard, but the receiver extension is less forgiving. No excuses though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADRt4k_cUeo
Crow Hunter
07-17-11, 07:58
Thanks for doing this. My brother has a XPS on his SCAR and has been apprehensive of it. I'll be sure to let him in on this one.
I have been just as impressed with your rifle as I am with the optic.
Kind of dispells all that gun shop knowledge about the durability of the AR series of rifles.
Thanks again.
Thank you for the update. I am interested to see how a T-1 would hold up after 60 bashes against a tree.
Thank you for the update. I am interested to see how a T-1 would hold up after 60 bashes against a tree.
I bet it'd be a puzzle :lol:
Thank you for the update. I am interested to see how a T-1 would hold up after 60 bashes against a tree.
I bet it'd be a puzzle :lol:
Actually, I think it would hold up just as good, if not better, than the XPS. The hood was visibly bent after the tree bashing. I wish I had before and after pictures, and the video I made just makes it look like I was givng love taps against the tree because you can't see the bark flying off the tree itself. The rifle is below the line of vision. FWIW, my right hand is slightly swolen right now and only closes at about 25-40% of my normal gripping strength because I was gripping the receiver extension with my right hand.
Thanks a lot for doing all these tests, it was really interesting. I have an aimpoint t1 and an eotech xps3-0 and I usually use the eotech because i prefer the recticle, and your tests gave me another reason to keep using the eotech. (i also prefer american made things)
your review was very well put together, but I don't quite understand something, did the eotech lose zero after all that, or was it the eotech screw mount, or just the ADM mount? Thanks
Thanks a lot for doing all these tests, it was really interesting. I have an aimpoint t1 and an eotech xps3-0 and I usually use the eotech because i prefer the recticle, and your tests gave me another reason to keep using the eotech. (i also prefer american made things)
your review was very well put together, but I don't quite understand something, did the eotech lose zero after all that, or was it the eotech screw mount, or just the ADM mount? Thanks
It was the mount from what I can get from my un-scientific tests. The mount was really loose and required tightening after the jeep rolled over the mount. The second time, there was a piece of shot that was wedged under the mount in the picatinny rail that caused the shift from where it was after the jeep ran over the rifle/optic. As soon as I removed the optic and mount, I could pry the piece of shot out of the rail (there is still a piece of shot wedged into the optic near the cross bolt for the sight itself) and the mount returned to zero where it was before. I don't know if a Larue mount would have the same results. At the front of the ADM mount, the sight could be moved laterally on the rail about a quarter milimeter to the ejection port side. On the Larue mount, there is a block that might prevent this movement, but I am not sure because I haven't held a Larue mount before.
I'll also add my thanks for doing this test. While I still think the Aimpoint is more durable than the EOTech due to the simpler LED system they use I've always thought the EOTech was a lot tougher than people give it credit for.
I can't believe the things you see on the internet. This might be the final straw that keeps me away from these forums.
I can't believe the things you see on the internet. This might be the final straw that keeps me away from these forums.
Why is that? I don't mean that flippantly, I'm honestly curious since you are an SME and I thought what the OP did was useful and informative.
I'm assuming you're aware but in case not, nimdabew simply tried to replicate what Larry Vickers did in his torture test for the Daniel Defense promo. That test seemed well appreciated by members when it was posted here (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=81485). Owning both an H1 as well as an XPS2, I was both surprised and appreciative that nimdabew put his own money on the line to prove the XPS was just as rugged. I honestly think EoTech should cut him a check because I bet this will sell more than a couple units.
Was it that you thought the tests were silly and/or non-representative of real use (again, he was just replicating the 'tests' Larry Vickers did), was it a sense of waste in that he was abusing an expensive piece equipment, or was it something else?
Side note: I wasn't surprised that the PMAG broke where it did. I have known for a while that the weak point of the windowed PMAGs was the window itself and this proved it in a round about way. I have been stocking up on Lancer mags when I can find them for cheap instead of re-buying PMAGs.
http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr173/nimdabew/Guns/DSC_6772.jpg
Quiet-Matt
07-17-11, 16:47
I can't believe the things you see on the internet. This might be the final straw that keeps me away from these forums.
I for one appreciate the few out there who are willing to test their chit in ways that most of us aren't willing to. That way I can have that warm and fuzzy feeling knowing that its quality. Thanks OP, if I ever decide to go back to EOTech, I wont hesitate to go with the XPS. The mount maybe not.
nimdbew, thanks for doing this. I think this will be something we can debate for a while, but at the end of the day you took your hard earned cash and took the chance. My only hope is that EoTech will compensate you somehow for doing this. From what you have posted, the EoTech still has some shortcomings, but you have to one degree or another demonstrated that is has pluses as well. Thank you.
christcorp
07-17-11, 21:49
Thank you so much for the very detailed series of tests. I don't have any problem with individual's preference to using Aimpoint; but it seemed that a lot of the Aimpoint fans were trying to have others believe that Eotech wasn't very reliable or dependable. I think your test; albeit unscientific; proves that for 95%+ (Guestimating) of users of red dot type optics, the Eotech will stand up to just about anything they can put it through. Including military and Law Enforcement. Honestly; how many people purposely throw their weapon and sights out the back of a truck; intentionally run over it; and try and kill a tree with it.
There will still be those that feel that they need a sight that is powered on 24/7 and can't conceive pushing a button. That's OK. Aimpoints are a fantastic sight. But there are quite a few people that don't have a problem with turning an Eotech on. And this test helps lay to rest that the Eotech can't handle adverse conditions. I have an XPS2-0 on one of my weapons, and I really like it. Then again; I also have sights that range from $60-$900. I don't buy optics, guns, or anything else because someone says I should. I buy to satisfy a specific purpose. For one of my AR's, with the type of rail and BUIS I put on it, the size of the XPS2-0 was the perfect fit for me. I'm just real glad that some can see that buying an Eotech is not submitting to a compromise, when on/off/battery isn't a factor. I know I didn't compromise by purchasing an Eotech. Just glad your tests confirm the quality of the Eotech. Yes; I would have been concerned and possibly disappointed if the Eotech failed your test, even if the test was rather excessive. But it didn't fail your test. And that's all that matters. Thanks again.
....The mount maybe not.
It's still not completely clear to me but from what I read, it seems like the actual eotech mount is good to go, it was the ADM mount that the eotech mount was mounted to that was problematic.
am I right in saying that nimdabew?
It's still not completely clear to me but from what I read, it seems like the actual eotech mount is good to go, it was the ADM mount that the eotech mount was mounted to that was problematic.
am I right in saying that nimdabew?
That is correct. The ADM mount held up to everything except for the jeep running over the optic (somehow the mount became loose) and a piece of shot getting wedged between the rail and underside of the mount. The piece of shot is hardly the mounts fault, and since a 3500lb+ jeep ran it over, I think it held up rather well. FWIW, I won't be replacing the ADM mount because of this test; I was just curious if the Larue mount would have prevented the loss of zero. My guess is as good as yours.
thanks for this, very cool to put your own cash on the line, I have a 552 and a 553 and like them both, was thinking about an XPS for the next rifle, this pretty much seals the deal for me.
OP,great job!Makes me feel good about my purchase :smile:.
I was looking at the XPS and thought about saving for one. Now I know I will save for it. Getting that EOtech seems more logical then spending money on a lesser one like a truglo or barska or any other 150 or less RDS. This has helped me decide as I am not liking the Aimpoints to much. Not saying there less then an EOtech or not in the same class of manufacturing as one. I just don't have any experience with them. To bad it doesn't come in OD green as That's my main color for my AR.
OP thanks for torturing yours for us and your rifle wish I had that kind of disposable income. I would be torturing a lot of things.:lol:
I have seen a lot of posts saying that this test sealed the deal or they are choosing X because of this test. I encourage you to not buy this sight because of this test, but just add it to the list of positives about the XPS. This is a sample size of one, and it doesn't represent every XPS out there. If this sight fell within one standard deviation of the mean value of the sights, then it is a good indicator of the durability of the sights.
I want everyone to understand that every sight has its pros and cons as well. The sight is durable. The sight turns itself off after 4 or 8 hours. It has a really nice reticule with the large 65 MOA circle and the 1 MOA dot. It also weighs twice as much, with the ADM mount, as a T-1 and Larue mount (337g and 165g respectively). The sight window is larger and allows for easier head placement on the stock. The sight also has 600 hours of battery life compared to the 50,000 of the Aimpoint.
I state these facts because a person shouldn't base their optic choice because of x or y or z, but take in the whole package while considering optic choice. This EOTech does 90% of what I would like it to do. Please, for the love of God, think for yourself instead of parroting information about Aimpoints or EOTechs and think for yourselves. Don't like something because it is the latest cool guy gadget, but because it works for your mission and your parameters for what you want an optic to do.
I just hope that me bashing the sight against a tree, shooting it with a 12 gauge, running it over with a truck, and throwing it out of a truck at 20 MPH dispelled some of the myths that EOTechs are not durable. It is a durable sight but it also has drawbacks that the Aimpoint does not. Weigh the pros and cons, all of them, before making a decision about what you stick on top of a rifle.
If anyone asks me what I would want the perfect optical sight to be, for the average user, I would say an ACOG would solve so many problems because they can be used up close, far away, and everything in between. The ACOG is also a compromise, but I will always have at least one sitting on a rifle unless something else comes along that is a better hammer.
Don't follow the crowd; think with your head and decide what is best for YOU and YOUR mission.
I have seen a lot of posts saying that this test sealed the deal or they are choosing X because of this test. I encourage you to not buy this sight because of this test, but just add it to the list of positives about the XPS. This is a sample size of one, and it doesn't represent every XPS out there. If this sight fell within one standard deviation of the mean value of the sights, then it is a good indicator of the durability of the sights.
I want everyone to understand that every sight has its pros and cons as well. The sight is durable. The sight turns itself off after 4 or 8 hours. It has a really nice reticule with the large 65 MOA circle and the 1 MOA dot. It also weighs twice as much, with the ADM mount, as a T-1 and Larue mount (337g and 165g respectively). The sight window is larger and allows for easier head placement on the stock. The sight also has 600 hours of battery life compared to the 50,000 of the Aimpoint.
I state these facts because a person shouldn't base their optic choice because of x or y or z, but take in the whole package while considering optic choice. This EOTech does 90% of what I would like it to do. Please, for the love of God, think for yourself instead of parroting information about Aimpoints or EOTechs and think for yourselves. Don't like something because it is the latest cool guy gadget, but because it works for your mission and your parameters for what you want an optic to do.
I just hope that me bashing the sight against a tree, shooting it with a 12 gauge, running it over with a truck, and throwing it out of a truck at 20 MPH dispelled some of the myths that EOTechs are not durable. It is a durable sight but it also has drawbacks that the Aimpoint does not. Weigh the pros and cons, all of them, before making a decision about what you stick on top of a rifle.
If anyone asks me what I would want the perfect optical sight to be, for the average user, I would say an ACOG would solve so many problems because they can be used up close, far away, and everything in between. The ACOG is also a compromise, but I will always have at least one sitting on a rifle unless something else comes along that is a better hammer.
Don't follow the crowd; think with your head and decide what is best for YOU and YOUR mission.
Well said.
I went with the EXPS 2-0 because I wanted to try something different. I believe that the EOTech's greatest difference from other optics is the reticle. I am glad to see that the this particular EOTech can take the kind of abuse that it has; of course, the military has been using EOTech's successfully for some time, and we can only imagine the abuse they take.
Great test, however I don't really remember the problems with Eotechs being the things that were tested. Seems like most of the reported problems were related to the factory mount coming loose and battery issues to include short battery life and the reticle dying from bent/broken beattery contacts.
Great test, however I don't really remember the problems with Eotechs being the things that were tested. Seems like most of the reported problems were related to the factory mount coming loose and battery issues to include short battery life and the reticle dying from bent/broken beattery contacts.
The battery compartment issue has been solved by having a transverse battery. There is a pic of the battery cap taking a big hit somewhere around here, and the sight still turns on.
As for the factory mount, I was able to get more torque on the screw through the allen bolt instead of the thumb screw. It hasn't come off yet.
As for short battery life, it is the nature of the sight and is a negative about the sight in my eyes.
Failure2Stop
07-19-11, 11:41
The battery compartment issue has been solved by having a transverse battery.
Maybe.
There may be an issue with lateral force exerted on CR123 batteries. It may be a battery issue, repetitive recoil cycle issue, or unlucky event, but there have been verified problems with more than a few XPS and EXPS models. There are only a few other optics that have lateral mounting of CR123 batteries, and they really aren't used for high volume shooting.
What I am looking forward to is years of accumulated observations and data on these sights. It took us a while to figure out that the first wave of EoTechs had issues, and it will take a while to see what there are really doing.
The test wahoo did is pretty decent for demonstrating gross toughness, and I do know some that had doubts about the EoTech in that regard, and knowing the pros and cons of the sights in the market this might sway them back toward the Eo. There is more to optic lifespan than being dropped, smashed, dragged and fragged.
One more minor thing: testing for zero shift.
This should be done on as small a target as you can possibly hit (if you are shooting steel at distance), or tracked on paper. An 6" piece of steel at 50 yards will permit almost 6 MOA of shift before you would know. Not what I would call "retaining zero".
One more minor thing: testing for zero shift.
This should be done on as small a target as you can possibly hit (if you are shooting steel at distance), or tracked on paper. An 6" piece of steel at 50 yards will permit almost 6 MOA of shift before you would know. Not what I would call "retaining zero".
I agree about the zeroing. It was the best I could come up with with the materials on hand and brevity for the videos sake. Idealy, each test would have had a mechanical rest at the original 100 yards on paper and using a pair of calipers to measure zero shift. It was good enough for Vickers to say that it was combat accurate in the DD test though FWIW.
If someone wants to donate another EOTech or Aimpoint for this test, I will gladly do it! :D
I did a lot of reading before i made my choice,and i'm happy with it.EOTechs are making a big comback with the XPS series for sure.As for the batteries being a problem they way they are mounted,i haven't seen/read of that being much of a problem.Nothing like with the inline mounted styles.The built in QD mount,reticle and 123 cell is why i like it better than an Aimpoint.On top of that it's AMERICAN MADE!:smile:
I think that with the EOtech being a "true" holographic sight, your trade-off is a reticle you may prefer for shorter battery life. The Aimpoint can stretch it's battery life out so far because it's just a single LED being powered, which are energy-efficient to begin with. Producing a hologram at different power levels is what gives you both the classic EOtech reticle AND the shorter battery life, even if EOtech has the same/better chipset technology or whatever.
To the OP, thank you for being willing to abuse your gear for this test. It just makes my decision of which RD sight to get even harder. Now I'm thinking EXPS2-0...?
OP,
For non warrantied repairs, Eotech will charge your $169 and completely rebuild your optic. A SWAT guy came into my work with a hilariously beat up 552 from 2001 or something... absolutely no tracking and the hood was tore the heck up.
Eotech completely rebuilt the optic from the ground up. It's a easy process to request a rebuild, just give em a ring and they'll give you a RMA#
That's good to know. Thanks for sharing.
Of course, I don't shoot enough currently to put my optic in that condition.
EOTech does have AWESOME customer service!I'd send them a link to this thread and ask what they'll do.They may very well like this!
EOTech does have AWESOME customer service!I'd send them a link to this thread and ask what they'll do.They may very well like this!
Can't hurt to try, but I don't think aggressive testing will be counted under warranty!
:lol:
Just rest well knowing you can get your optic restored to like new condition for a lot less than buying a whole new one.
OP,
For non warrantied repairs, Eotech will charge your $169 and completely rebuild your optic. A SWAT guy came into my work with a hilariously beat up 552 from 2001 or something... absolutely no tracking and the hood was tore the heck up.
Eotech completely rebuilt the optic from the ground up. It's a easy process to request a rebuild, just give em a ring and they'll give you a RMA#
So... If this is true, the question now becomes "how much will it take to stop an EOTech?"
So... If this is true, the question now becomes "how much will it take to stop an EOTech?"
Yeah, you might as well go the full Myth Busters route and keep going until it breaks down. I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd love to see that. Hell, I'll even toss 5 bucks into the proverbial hat to get your Eo rebuilt after it goes kaput.
If you're going by the DD test, you still can drop that sucker from somewhere really high, and everyone's favorite, blow it up, too bad the 4th just passed :D.
What would be a really good idea is water submersion and firing the hell out of it until the battery compartment or battery fails. Maybe you can lend it out to as many friends as possible to subject it to as many rounds and calibers possible.
When it finally gives out send your money and a link to Eotech and see what happens.
Thanks for the testing, that goes above and beyond the usual homebrew of effort. Now, what about the rest of the items on the AR? Foreend, stock, sling mounts and anything else that's not an integral part of the upper and lower? Anything break, come loose, become unusuable?
Thanks for the test. I am sighting my xps2-1 with the single dot in today. I agree that the aimpoint is prob a better sight, but I am an eotech guy because it is cheaper than an aimpoint and for my needs an eotech works better than I need it to. If I was walking in the mountains of afghanistan, I would want the aimpoint. However walking through the woods of Georgia, an eotech is for me.
Thanks for the testing, that goes above and beyond the usual homebrew of effort. Now, what about the rest of the items on the AR? Foreend, stock, sling mounts and anything else that's not an integral part of the upper and lower? Anything break, come loose, become unusuable?
Nope. The Magpul stock held up fine, the LMT RE is fine, the magpul mid-length handguard got chewed up a little from the shotgun blasts, but it is still holding onto the gun. I broke that one windowed PMAG but that wasn't a big loss.
Thanks for the test. I am sighting my xps2-1 with the single dot in today. I agree that the aimpoint is prob a better sight, but I am an eotech guy because it is cheaper than an aimpoint and for my needs an eotech works better than I need it to. If I was walking in the mountains of afghanistan, I would want the aimpoint. However walking through the woods of Georgia, an eotech is for me.
The EOtech is $409-439 or so. The Aimpoint PRO is about $425. ;)
Yea I just saw the aimpoint pro in a magazine yesterday, and wished I would have known about it before I ordered my eotech, but I sighted it in today and shot the piss out of a hog with it this evening. I came into the field, got off the golf cart, and threw up and shot so fast it was awesome. My eotech has the single dot and I really like it more than the 65 moa outer ring. It is a 1 moa dot and I like it alot better than the 4 moa dot of the aimpoint. The 2 moa aimpoint dot is on the same level though.
I just looked at the aimpoint pro and i really did like its features for the $$$, however it does weigh more than the eotech xps2 with the mount.
Singlestack Wonder
09-04-11, 12:49
Since this thread was in response to Larry Vicker's DDM4 torture test, it is important to note that:
a) To get the proper camera angle, the DDM4 with Aimpoint T1 was ran over several times in order to get a good shot.
b) The camera man accidently hit the eject button during the helicopter drop and the drop had to be performed twice.
b) At the end where Larry states that the T1's zero had moved, at a recent carbine class he told us that after further review, it was determined that the DDM4's barrel had been bent (2 helicopter drops?) causing the change in POI, not the T1.
While the Eotech in this thread did better than most thought it would, it is still far below Aimpoint in regards to durability. Any search on the net's shooting forums for Eotech failures (many types) will yield a wealth of threads. Conversely, a search for Aimpoint failures will yeild few.
YMMV
I just wanted to give an update. I noticed the other day that my EOTech had a piece of something floating around on the inside of the sight when it was shook and held upside down (didn't effect function at all) so I emailed EOTech about it. They said send it in and they would take care of it. I just got it back and it is a brand new XPS 2-0. Cost to me: shipping to their factory. Total turn around time was about two weeks.
http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr173/nimdabew/2012-01-10_17-24-34_912.jpg
http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr173/nimdabew/2012-01-10_17-24-46_749.jpg
I just wanted to give an update. I noticed the other day that my EOTech had a piece of something floating around on the inside of the sight when it was shook and held upside down (didn't effect function at all) so I emailed EOTech about it. They said send it in and they would take care of it. I just got it back and it is a brand new XPS 2-0. Cost to me: shipping to their factory. Total turn around time was about two weeks.
Wow that is impressive CS, a very select few companies would replace the optic at no charge especially with the amount of abuse it has taken. Theres something to be said about a company that stands behind their product like that.
That is all awesome. I started a poll yesterday wondering who had had any problems with their EOTech's. The one's that did had great things to say about the service but damn. And thanks for the test man, very good to know.
Edit - Nevermind, you already posted in it. That post would not have made me think all of this had happened to it though, haha.
Funny is i have seen over 10 of them go down in classes this year alone from shooting and battery issues.... go figure
Good they replaced the unit
I had a very positive experience with EOtech CS as well. Sent them a 6 year old 511 model; it wasn't replaced, but when I got it back it worked as new. They also replaced the scared protective hood N/C.
I've always heard Eotech had excellent service. Course I'm the type that doesn't really want to experience dealing with a company's CS.
I really hope the CS is good. My XPS went back this week for repair/replacement. The XPS kept shutting off under recoil. It happened about every 5th round.
I really hope the CS is good. My XPS went back this week for repair/replacement. The XPS kept shutting off under recoil. It happened about every 5th round.
Update?
cctroupe11
09-03-13, 08:14
This is an awesome test writeup.
I just joined recently and noticed a lot of the guys here talk shit about the durability of an EOTech compared to an Aimpoint, ACOG, etc.
They may not be AS durable, but that's damn durable still. From my experience in the Army and LE...if you're doing something for your weapon and rifle to get that banged up in a real word situation...then obviously there's some sort of operator error going on.
I just bought an EXPS2-2 w/ G33. Glad you did this, it showed me how tough these things really are.
+1 thumbs up.
mikemi1951
05-30-15, 00:53
One of the contributors here mentioned that any time during the 8hr on just depress the up button. That starts the 8hrs over. Sounds good to me though I've yet to try it.
Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk
One of the contributors here mentioned that any time during the 8hr on just depress the up button. That starts the 8hrs over. Sounds good to me though I've yet to try it.
Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk
I had almost forgotten about this. Update, I bought an EXPS 2-2-0 and it is doing well. I haven't had any troubles with either except the EXPS was starting to get dim. EP TECH asked for it back and I got a new sight for that as well. I didn't like the fact that the older ones seem dimmer than the newer ones, but their CA fixed it and it came back as bright as ever. I have owned 4 EOTechs at one point or another, all XPS series, and they have been great. I won't buy the no -transverse ones though, they seem to be hit or miss.
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