View Full Version : Carry gun?
Leonidas77
06-24-11, 21:34
For some time, I've been looking for a new carry gun. In the summer months, my G19 is a little hard to conceal. I carry it in a 5 Shot Leather IWB rig and I can never get the gun to conceal. I'm not sure if it rides too high or if I'm paranoid, but it prints pretty bad.
I've been searching the forum and I'm not finding many options for a subcompact carry gun. Usually people recommend a G26, M&P9c, or a P2000sk. I was going to get a G26, but after reading about Glock's recent problems I'm not so sure about the gun anymore. Plus, I can't find an older one. They sell pretty fast in my area. I like M&Ps, but I've never been able to shoot them very well. I've never shot the P2000sk, but I'm not a fan of the LEM trigger or the long first DA trigger pull the other variants have.
Are there any options I'm not considering? I would be willing to try older guns that might be harder to find. I really like my father's P225, but again I hate the first long DA trigger pull.
Also, I should say a little about my build. I'm a slim guy about 190lbs. I have a long torso, so my shirts barely go over my waist. I guess that makes it harder to conceal too.
Any help guys?
You can try the crossbreed holsters; mine will hide my G19 & G36 very well with the right t-shirt.
http://www.crossbreedholsters.com/
as for printing... a lot of people carry stuff on their belts (phone,ipods,ect) so it's not uncommon to see someone with a "bump" under their shirt. Most folks are so unaware of what is going on around them that you could carry open and they would not notice.
.
Leonidas77
06-24-11, 21:47
Do the Crossbreeds ride lower in your waistline? I've tried Comp-tac, 5 Shot Leather, and Del Fatti. They all seem to ride high and I think that's part of the problem.
I carry it in a 5 Shot Leather IWB rig and I can never get the gun to conceal. I'm not sure if it rides too high or if I'm paranoid, but it prints pretty bad.
SNIP
Also, I should say a little about my build. I'm a slim guy about 190lbs. I have a long torso, so my shirts barely go over my waist.
I carry a G19 in a Sparks VM2.
I also have a long torso.
I buy Tall shirts, and I buy them one size larger (XL vs. Lge) than I need.
I wear button down collared shirts, and get them at JC Penny. I buy them onsale - never pay full price.
I wear them for everyday, when they start to get a little ragged or faded, they get used for trips to the range or even work.
The Van Heusen are nice, as are the Towncraft. And I'm thinking they don't make the Towncraft anymore.
And my purse always matches my shoes.
Do the Crossbreeds ride lower in your waistline? I've tried Comp-tac, 5 Shot Leather, and Del Fatti. They all seem to ride high and I think that's part of the problem.
They have 4 holes front & 4 holes rear that you can adjust the ride with.
.
Carniemedic
06-24-11, 22:15
I just bought Comp-Tac’s MTAC holster for my G17 and I think it does a great job at concealing it. I really like the options of adjusting the cant and height of the ride. I also agree with Backstops post in regards to buying one shirt size larger. It really helps with any printing issues. To answer your question of a different carry piece option others might disagree with me, but when I want to carry something smaller I love my P239 SAS. The single stack magazine makes for a slim grip and with a good holster I can wear a regular sized shirt without any printing in my opinion.
...Are there any options I'm not considering?...
Are you willing to consider a revolver? My 24/7/365 gun is a S&W 642.
Leonidas77
06-24-11, 22:33
I'm not really looking for a revolver because I feel like I could get more capacity out of a similar sized package.
If you really had trouble getting your shirt over your gun the problem is with your wardrobe, not your weapon. Gen III 19's are widely regarded as one of the finest carry weapons money can buy these days. So many people carry them and have carried them for years that I have to say the problem just is not with the gun. Get a proper holster from a decent manufacturer like Crossbreed, Raven Concealment Systems, Personal Security Holsters, etc., and some new shirts that fit you. If it looks like it was made for a 14 year old girl and is advertised as "muscle-mapping," it doesn't fit you. Not when you're trying to conceal.
When I originally read your post I thought that POSSIBLY if you were 100 lbs. lighter than you are, you MIGHT have some printing issues but a 190 lbs. dude should have no problem at all carrying at 3-4 o'clock. Maybe if you have some sort of lower back condition that makes you walk around like quasimodo, things might be different. But assuming you're able-bodied and normally-built... There should be no problem here with nothing more than a proper-height IWB holster, flush fit mag and a standard t-shirt.
Leonidas77
06-24-11, 22:49
If you really had trouble getting your shirt over your gun the problem is with your wardrobe, not your weapon. Gen III 19's are widely regarded as one of the finest carry weapons money can buy these days. So many people carry them and have carried them for years that I have to say the problem just is not with the gun. Get a proper holster from a decent manufacturer like Crossbreed, Raven Concealment Systems, Personal Security Holsters, etc., and some new shirts that fit you. If it looks like it was made for a 14 year old girl and is advertised as "muscle-mapping," it doesn't fit you. Not when you're trying to conceal.
When I originally read your post I thought that POSSIBLY if you were 100 lbs. lighter than you are, you MIGHT have some printing issues but a 190 lbs. dude should have no problem at all carrying at 3-4 o'clock. Maybe if you have some sort of lower back condition that makes you walk around like quasimodo, things might be different. But assuming you're able-bodied and normally-built... There should be no problem here with nothing more than a proper-height IWB holster, flush fit mag and a standard t-shirt.
I agree. I've thought the same thing for about two years now. I don't wear "muscle shirts," but I do wear clothes that fit properly. I wear large t-shirts, sometimes XL.
My problem is mainly getting out of a car, etc. When I do movements that might move my shirt a lot, the printing becomes a problem. I understand this is part of carrying concealed, but I find myself always pulling my shirt down. I've even had friends comment on it. I think the long torso makes the problem worse.
Also, I'd like to avoid rearranging my entire wardrobe. If I could buy a smaller gun, or a gun that conceals better, I could avoid buying a bunch of large shirts that don't fit or 5.11 vests. I'd rather fit in with proper clothing than wear stuff that looks inappropriate to the situation.
I quite simply do not understand. How much of your day is spent getting out of cars? Yes, when seated in restaurants and bending down to get the Olive Tapenade on the bottom shelf at the grocery store because the wife just cant live without it, your weapon will print somewhat. In my experience, I've not often been followed around by a group of people closely inspecting my waistline for any evidence of a concealed weapon. People simply do not pay enough attention to other people for it to matter. And if they do notice, it is more likely that they will assume it is a phone mounted on your belt. Worst case scenario there... You look like one of those asses that wears their phone on their belt.
Take a look at this:
http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/defensive-carry-holsters-carry-options/112551-my-iwb-hybrid-holster-our-very-own-theis-picture-heavy.html
{not mine but very informative}
.
I wear large t-shirts, sometimes XL.
I'm gonna have to say trying to conceal a handgun under a t-shirt is a terrible idea, especially if you're concerned about printing. At least in my experience.
We can't print here in TX, and I hang out with quite a few folks that CHL - and no one wears a t-shirt.
Ad lib, funny story: Few years back family visited me, and wanted to to go the Alamo.
I hadn't been there in years, so called to see if CHL was still OK.
Guy I talked to was hilarious.
Told me as long as I wasn't gonna get all excited during the Oral History Presentation and start shooting my gun in the air, CHL was OK.
And I shit you not: he told me, "Please don't try to conceal your gun under a t-shirt. We get folks here that try it, and the Rangers get pissed."
I have the name, date/time, and phone number for that conversation...I always keep memos.
Again.. Why.
Would you prefer that one wear a thick overcoat on these fine June afternoons instead of a t-shirt? That'll show em. No printing at all. They'll never suspect anything.
Leonidas77
06-24-11, 23:36
Again.. Why.
Would you prefer that one wear a thick overcoat on these fine June afternoons instead of a t-shirt? That'll show em. No printing at all. They'll never suspect anything.
I'm not really sure what you mean. I get out of a car several times a day. Currently, if I forget to pull my shirt down, my gun hangs out and people can see it. I find it hard to believe everyone will think it's a phone. Also, I print, so that concerns me. I don't have an agenda. I'm not trying to bring attention to myself. I'd rather no one know I have a gun on me.
I honestly believe this is a weapon issue and not a wardrobe issue. Many people would consider a G19 a full-sized gun because of capacity, barrel length, etc.
I understand wearing an extra-small white t-shirt makes it hard to conceal. But I also wear polos and button-ups. The problem happens with every kind of shirt I wear.
I guess I'll pay more attention to my clothing, but I still think a smaller gun might help. I was hoping someone could give me some ideas on guns I haven't considered.
Do what you will, I didnt mean to step on any toes. I really just do not understand. I regularly conceal my 21C with a flush fit mag. No issues. And Im not a big guy. 5'11" 165 lbs.
Honestly, it sounds like it's either a mental issue, or possibly a holster issue.
I don't mean to insult you, but I think a lot of your problem is your perception of having a gun on your person. If getting in and out of cars is an issue, pull your shirt down before/as you get out. Try to avoid bending over, but if you have to, just readjust yourself when you're done. Like someone else has said, most people don't pay enough attention to even notice an occasional "slip".
Otherwise, try some different holsters. I use an Alabama Holster "360". It's light, conceals well, has good retention, and isn't bulky. Plus it supports a local guy who I can go to his house and try stuff out. THis holster places the gun pretty far down; the grip is the only thing above the waistline.
I'm 5'7", 180 lbs, and carry a G19 under a T-shirt. I used to carry a G27, but I wanted something with a bigger grip, longer sight radius, and more ammo. I don't regret going bigger at all. I'm thinking about CCW'ing my full size M&P40, as a matter of fact, just to say I can conceal it.
So I guess you could get a G26/27 if you're set on a small pistol. Or maybe the new XDM 3.8.
I love my Walther PPS 9mm. It's virtually a single stack Glock. Very similar in many aspects. I used to have a G27 and subsequently got rid of it due to the chunkiness of it. I considered Kahr PM9, Ruger LC9, and Sig P290. Settled on the PPS and couldn't be happier. Got a kydex IWB holster from alabamaholster.com and it's a great CCW setup.
silviacrazed
06-25-11, 01:05
I carry a M&P 40c everyday. I keep it inside a Crossbreed IWB holster. I use the magazine with the pinky extension bc I have large hands. I'm 6', 195-200lbs and I almost never have an issue with printing. I usually wear a large polo and the only one I get a slight chance of printing is one express polo that shrunk a little. As someone else said, most ppl don't pay close enough attention to know you're carrying. I go shopping and out and about all day with my weapon on me. When I first started carrying, I used to be really self conscious of carrying, I thought everyone would notice, but no one pays attention. They're too wrapped up in their world to check your waist. I don't know how the carry laws are in your state, but in GA they are great. As my one APD friend put it "if they do notice, **** em, you're licensed to carry" that was when I stopped worrying about it as much. I still keep it covered and pull my shirt down when I get out of a car, but I stopped worrying about if everyone was staring at me to see if I was carrying.
Sent from HTC EVO using taptalk
Nephrology
06-25-11, 01:24
just bought a 26 myself for summer carry. I like it. Don't worry so much about the reliability issues, especially in the 26s. Buy a gen 3 26, shoot it a bunch and forget about it.
edit: and like you I went from a 19 to a 26. I am happy with the change. I feel it hides much better and 10+1 is fine by me.
DeltaSierra
06-25-11, 01:35
Another vote for the Crossbreed...
I carry a Glock 19 in a Crossbreed under a t-shirt quite often with this rig.
I have a hard time concealing ANYTHING, as I am on the thin side myself, but the Crossbreed is about as good as I have found...
Rambo Complex
06-25-11, 02:37
I actually carry a glock 35 in a stoner brand leather iwb holster and it conceals really well. I wear a size larger shirt than normal as well. The full sized guns I've found frequently conceal just as well as the sub compacts of the similar model.
I've got a Taurus 740 that I can carry in a Crossbreed Mini tuck. It is a very compact package for 7 rounds of .40 S&W. I still wouldn't feel very comfortable with a close fitting tee shirt. But any tucked in Button down or Polo style that is loose fitting works well. Proper wardrobe is the key to concealment. If you're not willing to make some clothing changes for carry, you may as well get a pocket pistol and carry it in a pocket holster.
I see it as a holster issue and a clothing issue.
I would see about getting a different holster...try Nate at www.ubgholsters.com Try the Bonneville--it is a OWB holster that pulls the gun in close. Otherwise, look at the Canute--it is a IWB holster--also pulls the gun in close.
Secondly--what kind of belt are you using? If you're using a thin(ner) dress belt or regular belt, that is a big part of your problem. You/your holster needs a stable platform to draw from...and over time, wearing a holster, the belt will stretch. Check out vendors here or others (like Nate, or another site--beltman? Use your Google-fu to find) to get a good gun belt.
IRT clothing--if you're wearing clothes that fit you (wthout a gun) and still expect to carry, you will be disappointed...unless you find the right holster combination. If you're still not comfortable carrying or still have concerns about printing, then you might have to consider your wardrobe. You came here looking for answers, and we might be telling you what you don't want to hear. NO worries from me.
Just my 2 cents.
Last year I got a Galco Ankle Glove holster for my Kahr PM9 and it has become my "go-to" for warm/hot weather. (sidebar- Understand you don't like the long DA variants, so not pushing them; just saying an ankle holster is another option, albeit for a smaller weapon.)
I continue to be amazed at how well it conceals with most pants; Docker khakis and 511-type pants work well, jeans not as good. And after you get used to it, the extra weight is more or less not noticed. Once used to drawing from the ankle, it is slower than IWB but as quick or quicker as one of the IWB tucked designs.
I would recommend the optional strap for regular shoes. I have some mid-height Danners that support this holster and eliminate the need for the strap.
Rambo Complex
06-25-11, 07:17
I've found that 5.11 tdu pants and the rigger belt that comes with is a great combo for all types of carry. Very good durability and quality of build in the pants. Always heard you need a size larger than usual jean size cause 5.11 runs a little small for me. Im a cop though so these are pretty much all I wear along with the 5.11 professional polo shirts.
jmlshooter
06-25-11, 07:28
I also worry about printing under my Size Kids Small Ed Hardy t-shirt. Suggestions? Reccos?
Rambo Complex
06-25-11, 07:36
Ha yea you could move to new york and marry your "life partner" and share your ed hardy t shirts haha!
jmlshooter
06-25-11, 07:38
I just got my Concealed Hammer Permit and was wondering about wetsuit carry.
Thoughts?
Prayers?
jmlshooter
06-25-11, 07:42
Seriously: Get a longer shirt.
Guns-up.50
06-25-11, 07:59
WOW Am i the only one who carries a F/S pistol i started with a g22 then to a 5in 1911 now a F/S M&P i can say i really dont have any issues with printing even in the summer( Shorts and a T) Here in MI im not really worried anyways but its still not a problem
Guns-up.50
06-25-11, 08:13
I'm not really looking for a revolver because I feel like I could get more capacity out of a similar sized package.
This is one of the G19s best features small(er) package with 15 rnds how can you beat that? More often than not you cant have your cake and eat it too, the more concealability usually the less rnds. I have a ruger lcp 380 i can throw it in my pocket with no problems but i only have six shots. I give up ammo for a smaller gun.. My suggestion is dont give up in the 19 yet. I have a small fortune and a box full of holsters i dont use im sure most of us here do(unless you got lucky on the first one) so continue you quest after all options are exhusted then look for your new pistol
To the original poster:
There is nothing wrong with the size of your carry gun (Glock 19) and nothing wrong with your current holster (5shots). The 19 is one of the easiest gun to conceal and the 5shot rig is a tried and true holster based on highly successful concealment holsters.
I think it is your perception of printing, location of your gun/holster and probably your choice of outer shirts.
Printing: or the fear of printing. If you are new to carrying a concealed weapon, you will be very conscious of your gun showing. You may feel like there is a 2x4 sticking out of your waistband. 99.99% of people don't pay any attention to other people's waist or what is printing under another person's shirt. People wear cell phones, PDAs, knife pouches all the time and if for some reason someone notices a bulge, they probably thinks it's one of the above item.
Choice of outer shirts: You stated that when getting out of the car you have to pull your shirt down. Your shirt may be too short or too small. Forget the muscle show off shirts, forget tight t-shirts, forget the shirt that barely comes below your belt line. You don't need to wear a baggy shirt almost down to your knees. But maybe modify your wardrobe to looser t-shirts or polo shirts (untucked) or a button down short sleeve camp shirts. Columbia camp shirts are perfect for that purpose or you can get the dedicated concealed carry shirts from 5.11 or Woolrich Elite.
Location of gun/holster: The holster you mentioned and other similar designs, are meant to be worn on the strong hand side and slightly behind the centerline of your body.
Conclusion: It's not hard to hide a Glock 19 in a 5shot holster. Give some thoughts into what I said above, try it awhile. Get used to carrying a gun.
BTW, I've carried a gun from full size 1911s to short barreled K frame revolvers since 1985 in IWB and OWB holsters and have never been spotted. At least no one ever said anything to me if they spotted the gun.
The Dumb Gun Collector
06-25-11, 11:49
Here is my absolutely unsolicited free advice: skip the sawed-off sub-compacts. I tried to make them work for years. Get a Kahr P9/Pm9 or airweight J-frame. I have TRIED to stop carrying my Kahr. It is more difficult to shoot well because of its size--but it is worth it. If you buy one you will think "Meh." But you will notice, over time, you are carrying it more an more. It is just too handy. And in those situations where you might have decided to skip the gun, you will have it.
Just last night I was in line at a gas station wearing a t-shirt and shorts. I just got finished riding my trail bike. A very large dude behind me says "I REMEMBER YOU, YOU TESTIFIED AGAINST ME." I put my hand on the Kahr and turned around and said, "I'm sorry, I don't recall?" He explained that I had testified against him in a custody case, blah blah (I am a guardian ad litem appointed in custody cases). He was pretty pissed off, but I was able to diffuse it after a few seconds. My point is, if I was still regularly carrying my G19/26 or my P7 I wouldn't have had the gun. But the Kahr is light and small enough to carry on my bicycle. That guy never knew how close he was to gaining some extra holes.:D
For some time, I've been looking for a new carry gun. In the summer months, my G19 is a little hard to conceal. I carry it in a 5 Shot Leather IWB rig and I can never get the gun to conceal. I'm not sure if it rides too high or if I'm paranoid, but it prints pretty bad.
I've been searching the forum and I'm not finding many options for a subcompact carry gun. Usually people recommend a G26, M&P9c, or a P2000sk. I was going to get a G26, but after reading about Glock's recent problems I'm not so sure about the gun anymore. Plus, I can't find an older one. They sell pretty fast in my area. I like M&Ps, but I've never been able to shoot them very well. I've never shot the P2000sk, but I'm not a fan of the LEM trigger or the long first DA trigger pull the other variants have.
Are there any options I'm not considering? I would be willing to try older guns that might be harder to find. I really like my father's P225, but again I hate the first long DA trigger pull.
Also, I should say a little about my build. I'm a slim guy about 190lbs. I have a long torso, so my shirts barely go over my waist. I guess that makes it harder to conceal too.
Any help guys?
If you are committed to carrying concealed, you should commit to an appropriate wardrobe. Fashion and a flattering cut are no longer the priority. T-shirt and shorts just does not cut it for most. A Glock 19 should not present any issues if you dress appropriately and use a quality holster/belt combo. I am 5'7" 180 lbs. I always carry. My load out is a HK P2000, at least one spare mag, handcuffs, and a SF E1B Back up light. Carrying concealed is inconvenient.
Here is my absolutely unsolicited free advice: skip the sawed-off sub-compacts. I tried to make them work for years. Get a Kahr P9/Pm9 or airweight J-frame. I have TRIED to stop carrying my Kahr. It is more difficult to shoot well because of its size--but it is worth it. If you buy one you will think "Meh." But you will notice, over time, you are carrying it more an more. It is just too handy. And in those situations where you might have decided to skip the gun, you will have it...
This is what I'm saying. After much trial-and-error I've settled on the airweight J-frame. It conceals well in anything this side of a Speedo, and I always have it. While I'll concede that I can imagine a situation when having 10 more rounds would be advantageous, I can imagine many *more* situations when I'd be compelled to violate Rule #1: have a gun.
Works for me, but different strokes, and all that.
Leonidas77
06-25-11, 15:04
Thanks everyone. I appreciate the advice. I'm going to rethink my clothes and holster.
RagweedZulu
06-25-11, 21:14
Trust me Leonidas, only the good guys will know you are carrying. As a cop, I notice fellow "carriers" but in this area they are either permit holders or other cops, ie; "friendlies". The average Joe won't pull his head out of his iPhone long enough to notice you..
I too vote for the Crossbreed IWB holsters. I use one often UNDER A T-SHIRT to carry a G21 or G30. Nobody has ever noticed and I'm certainly NOT 190 lbs.
I would also recommend the dark colored, short sleeved button up shirts. They hide heat real well. Pick a patterned shirt and it's nearly impossible to tell there's anything under there.
So my recommendations would be to get yourself a Glock 26 and carry that thing in a Crossbreed Supertuck. You can't beat the combo of firepower, controllability and concealment from this package. And as the guy above mentioned, carrying is a LIFESTYLE change! Those of us who do it daily have had to change the way we sit, walk, dress, drive and reach for stuff in stores for years! Be conscious of your concealment, but if you "futz" with your cover garment all day, you only bring attention to yourself and your pistol. Happy packing bro!
-RagweedZulu
I'm gonna have to say trying to conceal a handgun under a t-shirt is a terrible idea, especially if you're concerned about printing. At least in my experience.
We can't print here in TX, and I hang out with quite a few folks that CHL - and no one wears a t-shirt.
Ad lib, funny story: Few years back family visited me, and wanted to to go the Alamo.
I hadn't been there in years, so called to see if CHL was still OK.
Guy I talked to was hilarious.
Told me as long as I wasn't gonna get all excited during the Oral History Presentation and start shooting my gun in the air, CHL was OK.
And I shit you not: he told me, "Please don't try to conceal your gun under a t-shirt. We get folks here that try it, and the Rangers get pissed."
I have the name, date/time, and phone number for that conversation...I always keep memos.
if not a t-shirt, what then?
The Dumb Gun Collector
06-25-11, 21:43
Fashion and a flattering cut are no longer the priority. T-shirt and shorts just does not cut it for most.
I tried trail riding in my tux, but it was too hot.
I am 6'2 200lbs and I carry a M&P 45 FS in a IWB Kydex holster made by Hideous holsters (similar as Raven) at the 2 or 3 O'clock position. The trick for me is I buy button up shirts made by Columbia, North Face, REI etc... they are made of thin wicking material and breath very easily, they even have vents under the arms. I will wear a t-shirt and then the button up over it, not buttoned. It conceals the gun and a spare mag on the left at the 10 o'clock position. If I have to wear just a t-shirt I can always trust my p239 or my j-frame in appendix carry holster.
if not a t-shirt, what then?
I wear botton down shirts.
Either Van Heusen or Towncraft.
The VH are a little nicer.
They're available in Tall sizes from Penny - wait for the sales.
On sale, the VHs are $20-$25 each and the Town are $15-$20 each
Although I don't think they're carrying the Towncraft any more.
I carry under only a t-shirt routinely without issue, as do most of the people I know in SE Florida.
dookie1481
06-25-11, 23:18
I carry under only a t-shirt routinely without issue, as do most of the people I know in SE Florida.
Same in Vegas. No problem concealing a full-size M&P under a t-shirt, and I think most here would consider me a midget (5'5", 165).
Jay
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v108/Avtomat/holster/rm9holster/IMG_0028.jpg
A Beretta M9 is my EDC...... seriously no joke. I started with a G19, went to the G17, M&P, and basically settled on the 92FS/M9 since it is the best platform for me.
The key is a good belt, good holster, and clothing selection. I have no problem carrying in shorts & t-shirt.
a Dickie's short sleeve button up work's wonders and they are cheap.
A Beretta M9 is my EDC...... seriously no joke. I started with a G19, went to the G17, M&P, and basically settled on the 92FS/M9 since it is the best platform for me.
The key is a good belt, good holster, and clothing selection. I have no problem carrying in shorts & t-shirt.
You da man! I carry a 92FS every day as well. I was carrying a USPc 45 for a while. And one day, I compared the grip to my Beretta. Almost the same size. I ordered a comptac holster to give it a try. I've been carrying a Beretta for 19 months straight now, even in the summer.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g320/mistershipwreck/EDC-2.jpg
brzusa.1911
06-26-11, 08:06
My favorites are my EMP 9mm or G26, I am selling my EMP, but could sell the Glock if the price is right. Sometimes I carry a Les Baer 1911, and when out in the woods a Glock 29.
I carry under only a t-shirt routinely without issue, as do most of the people I know in SE Florida.
One thing is here in TX we aren't allowed to print - it's law.
As someone told me, you folks in FL don't have that law. Is that true?
Not saying you do print - but is printing something you don't worry about, or do you modify your dress/movements/etc. so as to limit printing?
I've worn untucked collared shirts for close to 40 yrs.
When I hike/camp/etc. I carry OWB, and find my collared shirts conceal best for that.
When I shoot a gun match or go to the range, I wear a t-shirt under my collared shirt. I get to the range, pull off the collared shirt, run my drills, throw the collared shirt back on, and head for the house.
I'm not by any stretch saying you folks can't conceal with a t-shirt.
But I will say the folks I've seen do it here, are doing it wrong. Myself included, when I tried it with the t-shirts I owned at the time.
One thing is here in TX we aren't allowed to print - it's law.
I've had my TX CHL since 1996. That was the first year they gave them out. Initially, they split them up the first year - Some got two year permits, and some got four year permits... Thatw ay everyone didn't renew at the same time 4 years later.
Anyway, because of this, I've taken the CHL class 4 times. One full class and 3 renewals. I also work as a probation officer and have read the law, and also know how LEOs feel about this issue.
As long as its covered and the "average" person can't tell its a gun - you are fine. A "print" could be a cell phone, a knife in a case, etc. You do not have to eliminate ALL Bulges. Use some common sense. Don't bend over at the waist, bend at the knee, etc.
I carry on my hip. Undoubtedly, if the wind changes or something, there may be a slight bulge on my hip. It's covered. Its hidden fairly well. No one pays attention to anyone anyway unless you are a cute girl. So, I don't really worry about it.
titsonritz
06-26-11, 10:24
I'm gonna have to say trying to conceal a handgun under a t-shirt is a terrible idea, especially if you're concerned about printing. At least in my experience.
We can't print here in TX, and I hang out with quite a few folks that CHL - and no one wears a t-shirt.
Ad lib, funny story: Few years back family visited me, and wanted to to go the Alamo.
I hadn't been there in years, so called to see if CHL was still OK.
Guy I talked to was hilarious.
Told me as long as I wasn't gonna get all excited during the Oral History Presentation and start shooting my gun in the air, CHL was OK.
And I shit you not: he told me, "Please don't try to conceal your gun under a t-shirt. We get folks here that try it, and the Rangers get pissed."
I have the name, date/time, and phone number for that conversation...I always keep memos.
IMO, which seems to be shared by many, the Glock 19 is the ultimate carry pistol. It is the perfect balance between size and weight to firepower ratio available. I carry a Glock 19 AIWB under a loose, dark T-shirt (key) and I guarantee it does not print at all even while reaching, bending, lifting, etc. It also all but eliminates the “bump frisk”.
I've had my TX CHL since 1996.
I didn't know CHL started here in 96. I moved here in 98.
…and also know how LEOs feel about this issue.
I'd like to hear more on this. I have zero FTF exposure to LEOs. Guess there were a few in classes I’ve taken, but this topic didn’t come up.
I have to also say I don’t want to rely on the good graces of an LEO to not enforce the law if I happen to print.
Don't bend over at the waist, bend at the knee, etc.
I don't want to be in a position where I need to modify my body movements, and my current dress allows for that.
Well, I’m occupying too much space in this thread, so I’m back to reading.
In closing:
It’s obvious you folks can CHL to your personal standards wearing t-shirts, and that’s good.
Maybe I could if I worked at it; bought bigger t-shirts.
It was simple for me to start CHLing under CHL laws when I moved here. Didn’t need to change my wardrobe in any manner, just bought larger shirts the next go around.
My goal is to encourage zero attention. And if printing calls attention to me, especially as it’s against the law, I’ve not met my personal goals.
Edit:
I'm curious.
One thing I do find interesting is that you folks CHL with a t-shirt, and the folks I've seen do it fail miserably.
How do you do it?
OK...I'm back to reading.
T-shirts should be no problem.
I'm a skinny bastard and have no problems concealing a brick^H^H^H^ sorry, G27 wearing various colored t-shirts made of cotton and other better-breathing technical fabrics. I wear a large (which shrinks) or medium most of the time but don't wear anything really skin-tight. Just loose, your normal, comfy t-shirt.
Sometimes I do get paranoid, walking through the store, getting gas or whatever, but have to remind myself that 99.9% of people won't notice or suspect a thing, and I should just chill.
ETA: Raven phantom, 3:00 o'clock.
My only point is that you are imposing some mental limitation on yourself. If it works for you - then fine. But, I'm not really that worry about the occasional issue that someone MIGHT figure out I am carrying. Its not like you can't have ANY bulge on you.
But, if it works for you, then fine.
I'm curious.
One thing I do find interesting is that you folks CHL with a t-shirt, and the folks I've seen do it fail miserably.
How do you do it?
I don't understand the question.
I put my pistol in my holster, and my holster in my pants attached to my belt. I put my shirt on over top of it.
It works well enough for me that I can go to an IDPA match like this and with other shooters that are expecting to see me there with a gun they will ask "you're not shooting today?"
If they can't spot it, I'm pretty unconcerned that someone out in the world not looking for it will spot it.
dookie1481
06-26-11, 19:09
As someone said on another board: Concealed means concealed, not invisible to the trained eye at one meter.
I don't understand the question.
It seemed pretty self explanatory, but I'll try again.
How do you conceal your gun under a t-shirt?
What holster do you use?
What gun can/do you CHL with a tshirt?
Do you carry at 4 or 5 oclock, etc?
Do you buy t-shirts one size larger than normal?
Solid color shirts or plaid?
Light or dark colors?
OK...now I'm back to lurkdom.
:lol:
Glock 19, Kydex pancake holster IWB. 4:30 or so. Same t-shirts I wear otherwise.
It sounds to me like you're being paranoid based on your interpretation of what "printing" means, but if it works for you then carry-on, but I think you should be careful about advising other people that it's somehow impossible to carry under a t-shirt when plenty of people do this every day.
dmaxfireman
06-26-11, 19:56
i love my crossbreed supertuck, wear it just about every day. i just bought a crossbreed qwikclip to wear when i will be in my truck for extended periods of time
...but I think you should be careful about advising other people that it's somehow impossible to carry under a t-shirt when plenty of people do this every day.
"Somehow impossible?"
I have never advised anyone that it’s impossible to CHL with a t-shirt.
Matter of fact, up the page I said this: “It’s obvious you folks can CHL to your personal standards wearing t-shirts, and that’s good.”
And I’ve even gone so far as to offer a possible solution to my inabilities: “Maybe I could if I worked at it; bought bigger t-shirts.
I've been clear and have qualified my posts with "in my experience," and I’ve done nothing more than relate my experiences.
Isn’t that what we’re here for – to share experiences and knowledge?
If folks do in fact decide I've implied or said it's somehow impossible, they're not thinking critically, and sure as heck didn't read the other posts here that offer proof it is in fact possible to CHL with a t-shirt.
Frankly, you've misinterpreted my posts, and ascribed intentions to me that are misplaced.
R3V3LATIONS
06-26-11, 20:20
+1 on clothing. Im build like a marathon runner....5'10 155lbs, and I carry a full size 17 IWB at 1:00, 3:00, and sometimes 4:00, never have any issues. I buy shirts a size larger, and normally in darker colors as I find it really helps to conceal the firearm better. YMMV though,
However, if you are absolutley determined to buy a smaller handgun, I have a friend selling an early gen 3 slightly used (-500rds) g26, stock sights. I would recommend agaisnt buying it, as changing wardrobe is easier and more effective as a solution, but he is asking in low 400's and if you would be interested PM me about it.
RioGrandeGreen
06-26-11, 20:38
I carry a P2000sk in a Crossbreed Supertuck IWB and also use a Comptac IWB holster in the appendix position. The Crossbreed is definitely more comfortable and I have worn on drives of 600 miles or more. The Kydex Comptac is more for just around town. I wear belted shorts and a loose fitting t shirt in the summer and it hides very good. I tried the OWB method and it just didn't work for me. IWB is the way to go especially here in the southwest. I must also say I acquired this holsters from members of this forum. Great knowledge here.
titsonritz
06-27-11, 00:17
How do you conceal your gun under a t-shirt?
I simply leave the shirt untucked over my belt and pistol.
What holster do you use?
Dale Fricke Archangel AIWB
http://www.dalefrickeholsters.com/products.htm
What gun can/do you CHL with a tshirt?
Glock 19 have also carried my Glock 20 and 1911without issue
Do you carry at 4 or 5 oclock, etc?
11 o’clock (I carry left-handed)
Do you buy t-shirts one size larger than normal?
I have a 52” chest so I wear 2X T-shirts regardless otherwise they dig into my pits.
Solid color shirts or plaid?
Light or dark colors?
I buy solid, dark colors usually black, navy or brown with something on them ranging from brew pubs, animals or birds, Old Glory and even Iron Man.
Slim and athletic body styles have an easier time with conceal under a T-shirt because the weapon will lay flat against the body. Love handles and Buddha bellies tend to push the pistol butt outward possibly resulting in some printing, that is not to say it impossible to conceal.
jonconsiglio
06-27-11, 07:23
Jeans and a t-shirt for me or a button down. I carried a 1911 for a number of years in a Milt Sparks VMII. Now, I carry a Glock 17 or M&P outside the waistband. Same type of clothing, relatively fitted. I carried in a Crossbreed for a while as well, and that holster was very comfortable.
http://i534.photobucket.com/albums/ee343/jonconsiglio/Forums/DSC_5254T.jpg
This is the only pic I could find of how I carry now. It may not look like it, but a t-shirt covers it perfectly. Now and then it'll print a little and I have to be careful of reaching u with my right hand, but I still prefer outside the waistband in the heat of South Texas. Every state is different obviously, but in Texas printing and an accidental exposure are not illegal. If it was, I'd go back to an inside the waistband holster, though I'd still carry a full size gun. One of these days I'll get around to buying a Raven Concealment for the M&P, I just carry my Glock s much more...
http://i534.photobucket.com/albums/ee343/jonconsiglio/Shooting/DSC_1710-Edit-2.jpg
http://www.ttgunleather.com/id70.html
almost to the bottom of the page...IWB 'versa max II' style holsters in stock for the G19. Talked to him on Saturday and he's making 5 and will be done this week so give him a call. I've heard these sit lower in the waistband, which I'm assuming means the grip will print a little less. Also, if you don't have a good belt, get one - made a huge difference for me. Got mine from AG gunleather and really like it
My circle of friends has discussed this at length, I've asked at my renewal classes, and of course the Internet has batted this around.
I also called Austin once about this, and they said at first, LEOs would decide whether "accidental" or "intentional" would apply, then the courts would decide which term applied.
... but in Texas printing and an accidental exposure are not illegal.
From page of the 2009-2010 book:
§ 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE
HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.
So just to be clear: I agree with you; accidental exposure isn't illegal.
The interpretation could be a bitch though.
jonconsiglio
06-27-11, 08:27
My circle of friends has discussed this at length, I've asked at my renewal classes, and of course the Internet has batted this around.
I also called Austin once about this, and they said at first, LEOs would decide whether "accidental" or "intentional" would apply, then the courts would decide which term applied.
From page of the 2009-2010 book:
So just to be clear: I agree with you; accidental exposure isn't illegal.
The interpretation could be a bitch though.
Interpretation is everything when you're face to face with a local cop. Here in Texas we can print and a quick accidental exposure is not illegal, but that doesn't mean you won't take a ride for it depending on the cop and the circumstances, etc.
So, it's always better to err on the side of caution of course.
IMO t-shirts are OK for concealment as long as they are the thicker/heavier cotton ones. The $4.99 jerzees brand from Target have worked very well for me to hide G26, G19 or S&W 642. Most t-shirts are no thicker than undershirts these days and pretty much junk. A good holster/belt combo (they are a system) and a large enough, long enough and thick enough cover garment and you can conceal a decent sized pistol. Plenty of good reccomendations in this thread so far. You also need to consider pistol location on the clock with your belt buckle at 12. 2o'clock conceals very well and isn't prone to the peekaboo's or printing that normal everday reaching/bending gives with traditional 3o'clock carry. Most people never bend over backwards despite claims to the contrary. Guy's don't look near other guy's crothces.
Keep in mind that we are our own worst critics. You know that you are carrying. You know where you are carrying. You know what to look for to tell if someone is carrying.
Good luck.
WTH – a little humor. Posted this on some other gun Board.
Maybe 6 or 7 years ago I was in the checkout line at Wally World.
2 women in front of me had about 5 kids, and they were running all over the damn place. And I mean running – they’d run through the line, then around the register to our right, come up behind me, squeeze between me and the other customers in line – and repeat.
One time, one of the boys was running up behind me and slammed his forehead right into the butt of my Kimber. I mean he hit me hard, and if you’re a gun person, the sound would have been recognizeable.
Kind of knocked him sideways, and I could see the red mark on his forehead.
His mother (I guess) started yelling at him (finally), and all he could do was complain his head hurt.
And I couldn’t stop laughing.
Of course she had some words for me, and some guy behind me said something.
Made me realize some things about weapon retention also. When I’m in a crowd, I generally hook my right thumb in my pants pocket.
This kinda provides for my arm to cover my gun. It really didn’t that day.
Made me realize some things about weapon retention also.
One of reasons I went with AIWB carry (P2000SK in Minotaur neutral cant). We had guy over here who had his gun stolen when shopping. Here this means you will instantly loose licence for all firearms and probably never get it back plus criminal charges for lack of proper control over firearm (fine or up to 5 years jail).
One of reasons I went with AIWB carry (P2000SK in Minotaur neutral cant). We had guy over here who had his gun stolen when shopping. Here this means you will instantly loose licence for all firearms and probably never get it back plus criminal charges for lack of proper control over firearm (fine or up to 5 years jail).
Nothing like prosecuting the victim.
titsonritz
06-27-11, 11:08
Made me realize some things about weapon retention also. When I’m in a crowd, I generally hook my right thumb in my pants pocket.
This kinda provides for my arm to cover my gun. It really didn’t that day.
I carry a Glock 19 AIWB under a loose, dark T-shirt (key) and I guarantee it does not print at all even while reaching, bending, lifting, etc. It also all but eliminates the “bump frisk”.
Just one more reason I carry AIWB.
Nothing like prosecuting the victim.
You would not believe how strong rights of criminal are protected here, and how poor is victim position... :suicide2:
But in this case logic is that firearm ownership (and especially CCW) is great responsibility and if you are not fit to take this responsibility (by loosing firearm out of negligence) you bring danger to society. The law states that you must carry CCW gun in manner that it is concealed and in way that prevents access of others to the gun. Personally I'm OK with this.
shaneinhisroom
06-27-11, 11:56
I carried a G19 as well, and I'm actually thinking of moving to a full size 1911 for summer carry. That paired with a VMII should give me really good concealment for just shorts and a tshirt.
Hogsgunwild
06-27-11, 12:35
Leonidas77: This may have been mentioned but I did not see it.
It makes a big difference what cant or angle your holster is positioned at. Years ago I learned that finding the proper forward cant makes a huge difference in concealing well. Having your holster set-up with a zero cant (slide is perfectly vertical) leaves your grip sticking way out back and just prints way too easily with any mid-sized or large gun.
For me (a lefty) a low riding holster at eight to nine O'clock with a moderate forward cant works great.
If you buy a holster like the CompTac MTAC, it is adjustable for various cants and also you can adjust it to ride higher and lower
inside of your waistband, on your belt. The holster is relatively inexpensive and besides it helping you to find what position works
best, you can buy extra Kydex shells for it for about thirty dollars
which enables you to use the holster with other guns as well.
This holster works very well for the money and I attribute my MTACs with helping me to figure out what worked best for me (after wasting money on some higher riding zero cant leather holsters that never worked very well).
I carry my 1911s in Milt Sparks VMII holsters and rarely bother with carrying my shorter and or aluminum framed 1911s anymore as the full sized steel models have become so easy for me to conceal. The
MTAC is not much different from the VMII comfort wise but the VmII is a bit better.
I am 5'11' and about 185 pounds and the wife likes to buy me stylish
shirts that are often tighter than I used to feel would be conducive to concealed carry but my set-up amazes me as in what I can wear
and still feel comfortable about concealing well.
I am presently into H&Ks and am about to order the MTAC shells for my USPs and a P2000 in order to experiment with carrying them. One USP is the .45 and the other is the .40 Expert with the "Jet Funnel" extended magwell. I cannot help but want to play around / experiment with carrying these two monsters!
Hopefully you have a good belt as well. I have not read thru all the pages in the thread but I'm assuming that someone has touched on the need to have a good gunbelt and not a dept store belt that is not sturdy.
I regularly carry a G17 with a x300 light in a raven holster, worn in conjunction with a ares belt. I carry at around 2 o'clock and my shirts are one size larger. If I'm really trying to push the envelope I can even use a mag with the Arredondo extension attached.
For purposes of comparison, I am 5'11 195lbs and also have a long torso.
All the best
J
OP, as someone who has carried a Glock 19 (in a RCS Phantom), a Glock 17 (in a CCCLooper), and a fullsize 1911 among others (also in a RCS Phantom), you have a valid concern and are not crazy. Don't be forced into a mold that you are uncomfortable with merely because a bunch of people on the internet say they're fine with it.
I appreciate all these guys trying to convince you that the problem is with you or your belt or holster (many times it is the belt or holster), but your concern is valid. Everyone has a different comfort level with the extent to which their gun prints. While a Glock 19 is perfectly capable of being carried concealed, it is certainly not the most concealable handgun out there. Compared to many other options, Glocks are fat. Plain and simple. That's why there is such a thriving market for single stack 9s. Not everyone is willing to own a wardrobe that rightfully looks like it belongs to someone 30lbs heavier and two feet taller.
Having carried full size firearms over many summers and having friends that have done the same, I can safely say that most of those who have commented in this thread who state they carry full size guns without printing - print more than they think they do. However, what most have decided is that the general public will not pay attention to the fact that they print. This is true. Most people don't notice.
Now, those who carry notice (or should). It doesn't take much to scan a person's waistline. I generally notice. LEO's may notice. Those who care about what *you* wear (women) may notice. The average joe will not notice. Guys don't tend to look at other guys' waistlines. So it is about personal comfort with the extent to which you print.
As has been said before, dark colors help. They're not a cure all, but a black polo is pretty much all I wore one summer whenever I carried my 1911. Not everyone wants to be limited in their clothing choice. Not everyone has the luxury of wearing baggy, untucked polos on a daily basis. Your ccw should match the attire your life requires, not the other way around. There may have been a time when handgun options were so limited that one had to make clothing adjustments, but that is no longer the case.
Also, if you're tall, instead of wearing a baggy, overly long shirt, simply consider the location of your holster. I am 6'4", and my shirt bunches on the grip over time if I wear at the 4o'clock position or further back. So I almost always carry straight at 3 or 3:30. This presents a different problem - now I look lopsided. Again, dark shirts. So those are some options.
Or, a better option - You can take the best advice that has already been given in this thread and fit the gun to the need. While the G19 works for many, it doesn't work for everyone. There is no such thing as a "best" gun. Glocks, while excellent, are not "perfection." Kahrs are much thinner and more concealable than Glocks. The PM9 is on the large size for pocket carry, but it can be done. Even better, the PM9 will disappear when carried IWB. The CM9 and CW9 are both very affordable options.
As Greg Bell previously alluded to, the most important thing is that you own what you will carry. If a PM9 will spend more time throughout the day on your person, then buy it and carry it. My only gripe with the PM9 is that I generally like to only carry guns that I can get a full grip on. However, it is so convenient to be able to slip the PM9 into a pocket when I otherwise wouldn't carry anything that I can't ignore the benefits its small size provides.
Good luck in your search for what is right for YOU.
Alpha Sierra
06-29-11, 05:50
I find these kinds of threads extremely confusing. In my experience, effective concealment is just not that difficult.
I have carried full size pistols (M&P9 and now G17) almost exclusively for the last 3 years and simply do not understand how someone can fail to conceal one with just a little bit of attention to detail.
Yes, I've gone through some holsters, but mostly looking for comfort. Every IWB holster I've ever had has concealed a full size gun well, some extremely well. The best holster I have found for concealment of a full size pistol is without a doubt the Secret City Isotope 7/Brommeland Max Con V.
Wear a proper gun belt. I don't care if it is made of nylon or leather. But get one. Enough said.
Wear button down, untucked, square-hemmed shirts. Wear polos with stripes or patterns in one size too large.
It's not rocket science.
"Not everyone has the luxury of wearing baggy, untucked polos on a daily basis. Your ccw should match the attire your life requires"
This is the elephant in the room. I am dressed "business casual" for my business more hours of the week than I can dress "baggy". Although I can get by with a couple of shirts untucked (e.g. Royal Robbins Desert Pucker), much more often it is a polo tucked. I often wear a sports coat over a polo, but in summer this can become unfeasible given circumstances sometimes beyond my control (e.g. standing outside in heat during business). Bottom line is carry at waist in summer is not going to work all the time, and for me most times. Therefore ankle holster or an under-the-pants (e.g. Thunderwear) is the default for carry. This defines to a great extent the weapon that can be carried.
"My only gripe with the PM9 is that I generally like to only carry guns that I can get a full grip on."
Try the Pearce grip extension. Marginally increases the print, but dramatically increases grip and control for me. YMMV.
"Not everyone has the luxury of wearing baggy, untucked polos on a daily basis. Your ccw should match the attire your life requires"
This is the elephant in the room. I am dressed "business casual" for my business more hours of the week than I can dress "baggy". Although I can get by with a couple of shirts untucked (e.g. Royal Robbins Desert Pucker), much more often it is a polo tucked. I often wear a sports coat over a polo, but in summer this can become unfeasible given circumstances sometimes beyond my control (e.g. standing outside in heat during business).
In this case (I carry P2000SK) I use my Minotaur neutral cant (AIWB) with shit tucked in. Then I place holster for my smartphone (HTC HD2 in my case) on the belt near holster and wallet in pocket on same side as holster. Cell phone holster and wallet optically cover any print from AIWB. Just be careful not to draw phone when you need gun ;)
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.