interesting M&P accuracy results

[threeheadeddog]

Ok so I have been shooting my M&P9L for a while and sometimes I shoot it with the frame that came with it and sometimes I use another one that came with a M&P9FS I own. As luck would have it, I have always used the frame off the 9L when I do accuracy testing. Also as luck would have it, at the last match I shot I was using the 9L slide on the FS frame.

The match had alot of tight shots and I was sucking badly. I am generally a good shot and most of the time the only thing that is getting me bad hits is my lack of patience with the sights. I almost never have issues with tight targets that I take my time with. So I decided to do some switching around with my slide/frame sets and see if there was any noticeable difference. For the purpose of this thread I will put the slide first then frame such as 9L/FS meaning 9L slide and FS frame.

18 yards 9L/FS
5 shot group 4.75" with 4shots in 3.5" Shots were all left of center and about 5" low strung almost 4.25" vertically.
5 shot group 4.5" with 4 shots in 3" hitting same area of target only slightly higher but more left

18 yards 9L/9L
5 shot group 3.75" with 4 shots in 3" Shot were where relatively where I put them.
5 shot group 3.75" well spread in same area

18 yards FS/9L
5 shot group 3.5" where I aimed
5 shot group 4" same spot on target

18 yards FS/FS
5 shot group 5" well spread slightly left and low of target
5 shot group 4.75 about same only slightly more centered.

It was easy to see that the frame that came with the 9L had consistantly better results. I also need to point out that the FS frame has a home stipple job but it is not a deep job at all. I do not believe that the stippling had any affect on the accuracy. I also do not believe that it matters where the frame came from(FS or 9L) just that I am getting different results with the different frames.

Also worth pointing out is that the 2 groups on the 9L frame with each slide were pretty close if overlayed. The FS groups would have opened up quite a bit if overlayed to represent a 10 shot group.

At the end I put the FS slide back on the FS frame and fired a 147gr Gold dot that hit .75" left of where I aimed at 25 yards just as a quick check on carry ammo. I then decided to run 5 rounds of 147gr Gold Dots out of my 9L/9L.

30 yards 9L/9L
5 shot group 2-3/16" dead center and on the sights.

Also because I have already written this and dont know exactly where to put it, the shots at the top are all 115gr federal from wal'mart.

[bp7178]

I've been looking at buying a M&P or sucking up and getting a 1911. However, the cost with a 1911 is pretty high. My duty pistol is a 92D, and the trigger pull sucks to attempt to use for competition shooting.

I was wondering how accurate the M&Ps can be.

Do you have any way to bench rest the pistol and see how it does?

[threeheadeddog]

I have no real way to bench it myself. I do shoot with a guy that regularly keeps bags in the truck. I may be able to try that after a match.

I have no doubts that the Gold dots would shoot a little better if benched.

Also funny is that I am seriously considering buying a 92A1. I dont think there is anything wrong with that style pistol for competition.

[Ironman8]

threeheadeddog,

Are you using the stock trigger on yours? And how many rounds do you have through it?

[threeheadeddog]

both stock triggers.

As far as rounds I havent kept perfect track in a while. I shouldnt even throw numbers out but I would say 2k+ in the 9L frame and 1k+ on the FS.

[Ironman8]

Ok you're about where I am with my FS...I have about 3,000 through the stock trigger.

The reason I asked the question is because I have always shot slightly low and to the left as well and wanted to see if you were using a stock trigger like I am. I have found that when I "anticipate recoil" its a little lower than normal, but when I am conscious about it, I'm still about an inch low/left...

I've come to the conclusion that, for me, alot of this is due to the super long pre-travel that the stock trigger has. Even though the stock trigger is still acceptably "combat accurate" I've been thinking about trying the Apex FSS & Trigger to see how that works...

[bp7178]

I have no real way to bench it myself. I do shoot with a guy that regularly keeps bags in the truck. I may be able to try that after a match.

I have no doubts that the Gold dots would shoot a little better if benched.

Also funny is that I am seriously considering buying a 92A1. I dont think there is anything wrong with that style pistol for competition.

Big difference between a 92A1 and a 92D.

One of our old instructors let me use a custom Beretta he owns once. I shot amazingly well with it, but it was a DA/SA gun, as opposed to a DAO.

For a field gun, the DAO isn't bad. However, you really have to understand the balance of speed and accuracy. Very very long trigger pull. It's smooth and clean breaking, but too long IMO.

I do pretty good with my 92D, to the point where it's not a skill problem. Just the wrong tool for the given task.

[threeheadeddog]

Ahh, I see. I dont know the 92 variants much. I assumed that the D was just reference to decocker. So I figured if it can decock it must be DA/SA. I guess I was thinking more G model like.

[threeheadeddog]

The low left thing doesnt bother me at all. Mainly because with the Gold Dots in the original frames both guns shoot pretty much where they should, and with the practice ammo both slides shot where they should with the frame that originally came with the 9L. I really do think the issue is ammo and an oddity where one frame definately shoots better with both top ends. The FS frame also definitely changes the POI quite a bit. I was bringing this up mainly to add to all the "M&P accuracy" threads to share the variances with frame that I have had.

To me this lets me believe that the accuracy issuse are not all barrel related. I dont know how all the parts interact with each other but I assume that, at least to me, it seems that when it comes time to get the Apex barrels than one should really send in there whold gun not just the slide for propper fit. I am really curious what Randy Lee has to say about this.

[bp7178]

Yeah, 92D = Double Action Only (DAO).

I thought the G had a safety lever, but was DAO.

[threeheadeddog]

If I recall corectly the G is the spring-loaded decocker that returns to the fire position after decocking. That means that there is no safty manipulation on the draw.

[Grizzly16]

Yeah, 92D = Double Action Only (DAO).

I thought the G had a safety lever, but was DAO.
The G models are decocker only no safety with DA/SA triggers I believe.

[oboe]

Wanting that 92A1, I found that the first DA pull was horrid - every time - for ME. Got S&W M&P fs 9mm and have been shooting it. Guy at the range measured trigger pull at 6 lbs. I am fully convinced that where the target is hit has to do almost entirely with me - especially in regard to trigger control. I am also convinced that the Apex or similar trigger treatment with a 5 lbs. trigger pull will have a substantial impact upon my ability to move the shots closer to the POA and in a smaller group. That won't happen for a awhile, and I need a lot of practice anyway. In the even that I do go Apex or similar treatment, I'll post the results.

[Ironman8]

Wanting that 92A1, I found that the first DA pull was horrid - every time - for ME. Got S&W M&P fs 9mm and have been shooting it. Guy at the range measured trigger pull at 6 lbs. I am fully convinced that where the target is hit has to do almost entirely with me - especially in regard to trigger control. I am also convinced that the Apex or similar trigger treatment with a 5 lbs. trigger pull will have a substantial impact upon my ability to move the shots closer to the POA and in a smaller group. That won't happen for a awhile, and I need a lot of practice anyway. In the even that I do go Apex or similar treatment, I'll post the results.

Sounds like you are experiencing the same thing as me...I am back and forth between gettin the Apex parts just cause I am still making combat effective hits with my stock trigger...since I'm not a competition shooter, I don't know if it would be worth the $150 to wring out that extra bit...but it sure would be a slick trigger though :cool:

[oboe]

Truth be told, it's a matter of time before my M&P gets the trigger job.

[Ironman8]

Truth be told, it's a matter of time before my M&P gets the trigger job.

Haha as much as I hate to admit it, I'm prolly headed down that road too...I'm gonna try to iron it out with practice first though...

[JHC]

And the conclusion of this thread is what? :confused:

[threeheadeddog]

I dont know what the conclusion is but the premis is that 2 different frames shoot quite differently with the same slide(in the case of 2 different slides).

I was bringing this up because I know I am not the only guy who has swapped slides. I remember seeing pics on this sight of a 9L with thumb saftey which supports this.

I have no idea what the conclusion is. I was hoping that someone like Randy had alread figured that out and was in a position that he could mate everything up right when given the opportunity.

[VirginiaTactical]

Questions:

Check the locking block on both your frames are they the same size? Look at the wings on the locking block. Are your wings 3/8 of an inch or 4/8 of an inch in length?

If they they are different .. which one is on the 9L frame?

[JHC]

I dont know what the conclusion is but the premis is that 2 different frames shoot quite differently with the same slide(in the case of 2 different slides).

I was bringing this up because I know I am not the only guy who has swapped slides. I remember seeing pics on this sight of a 9L with thumb saftey which supports this.

I have no idea what the conclusion is. I was hoping that someone like Randy had alread figured that out and was in a position that he could mate everything up right when given the opportunity.

OK OK I got lost in the contrasts of trigger options with various models. You're good. It's an original new datapoint on the topic, tip 'o that hat.

Wait til Randy markets the complete Apex upper. That should epic. He won't rest til it's a 1" 25 yard pistol.

[threeheadeddog]

Ya I am watching Apex closely to see where it all goes. This just had me wondering if his top ends would need to be fitted to different frames.