View Full Version : Ever think of just "bare bonesing" it?
Ever take stock of all the money and time you have sitting in your safe and think of really getting down to the lowest common denominator with the whole "collection?
Most of us here would say that our firearms are tools, and tools for specific tasks. I myself have likened my guns to a hammer (for work), or a baseball bat (for sport).
Sometimes though I wonder if I'm really getting all that much of a return on my investment. I wonder if I've reached the point of diminishing returns. Am I really getting 6 times the gun by using my customized AR over a stock AK? Am I really getting 4 times the gun by using my semi-custom 1911 over a stock Glock?
I'm sorely tempted to put all the high-end guns in a safe with a time lock for a year, and going with a collection of maybe 4 guns at most, and limiting myself to a budget of 20% the cost of the firearm to customize it. For example.
A Vector AK costs about $550 out the door. This leave $110 to customize. Add an extended safety for $50, a BFG sling for $50 and a rail to mount a light to the handguards for $10.
A Glock 19 costs about $550 out the door as well. Another $110 to customize. Add a set of Warren sights (plain rear and ant tritium front) for $70, a TD extended safety for $16 and a Glock extended slide stop (hey, I like 'em) for $16 and you have $8 left over.
If you need or want something for plinking, silencing, teaching, etc maybe splurge and get the following...
Ruger 10/22 stainless for $250 OTD. $50 to customize. $5 for an extended mag release and maybe $45 to thread the barrel for a can.
Ruger MKIII stainless bull barrel for $400 OTD (a bit of a splurge, I know). $80 to customize. Should be enough to put a dot front sight on to match the G19 and get the barrel threaded for a can.
If you want the can get yourself a Mite, or Outback, or Pilot or whatever for $500 OTD. I mean, if you really want to suppress something, a .22 is hard to beat.
So there it is. $2600. The price of one high-quality and accessorized AR. Pick yourself up a Surefire X300 that you can swap between the Glock and the AK if you need to or get two Streamlights and make the whole package $3k even.
Yeah, you'll need a holster for that Glock, and some magazines, and mag pouches, and ammo, and all that good stuff. Maybe another $1k for mags and another $1k for enough ammo to last you quite a long while?
Maybe it's just recent events in my life that have me re-thinking some things and re-evaluating some priorities. Anyone want to buy an Escalade?;)
Ellery Holt
10-20-07, 17:57
Yep. Treasure should be laid up in Heaven, not the gunsafe. :)
Ever think of just "bare bonesing" it?
Yup, everytime I get my AMEX bill... :eek:
Business_Casual
10-20-07, 18:49
Just a Glock 19?
Who are you and what have you done with Rob?
M_P
Jay Cunningham
10-20-07, 18:55
..........
I know exactly what your talking about. In the last few years I went nuts and bought all kinds of goodies but im justifying it by telling myself there is going to be a ban sooner or later and my boys will need either a AK or an AR for themselves plus mags. Then what happens is I think im all good and start thinking hey im not giving that little rat that nice new LMT and I sure am not giving him that Arsenal AK. So I go and pick up something cheaper for them like a Century Monkey built AMD-65. I run the AMD-65 through its paces to make sure everything is fine before it goes into the safe and the next thing you know its my new best friend. Where does it end????
No. I could if need be but I'm not going through a mid life crisis. (Or would that be the opposite? :confused: :D)
KintlaLake
10-20-07, 19:35
Absolutely, Rob.
I'm prone to the "collecting" and "upgrading" bugs. I've gone through the cleansing you suggest many times -- with guns, photo gear, motorcycles, cars, knives...
With all of those things, I've found that I get far more enjoyment out of being an enthusiast than from being a collector. I crave what I already have and spend my energy pursuing that illusive thing called mastery.
I've also taken to periodically and purposefully re-discovering why I became enthusiastic in the first place. Specific to guns, the re-discovery looks something like this (minus the glass):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v337/kintlalake/WinchesterModel67-1941CatalogPage.gif
Simplicity is a tonic. :)
BushmasterFanBoy
10-20-07, 19:45
I don't know, that's a really personal question. I mean, what it really boils down to is, "Do I have all the guns I need to carry out my needs?". If you can say yes to that with a simple .22LR Bolt action gun, then that's all you need. If you're a person who has to have that $20,000 over under to stay with up the Jones at the local clay shoot, then that 870 might not work for you.
For me, no I have never thought of "bare bonesing" it. I like variety and if I have the same thing over and over again it becomes a bore. I want a different gun for the different things I do. I want to use my Franchi for doves and my Auto 5 for deer hunting. I like my 7mm-08 for long range shooting. I like having a modern inline muzzleloader for primitive hunting season. I enjoy casting old fashioned Minie Balls for my Springfield 1861 reproduction musket and love timing myself on the reloads. I add accessories as my budget allows, rarely making large purchases at once, sticking with parts here and there. Realistically you can narrow it down to a shotgun and be good to go I would say.
I could never do it with just a few guns. Hell, I started off with a few guns and later bought more. If I just wanted a few guns, why would I have ever bought more?
One thing I've learned about myself is to be very selective about what I get rid of. On more than one occasion I have sold a gun to get a gun, kicked myself, and bought the same model I sold when I saved enough to buy it - usually about the same amount of money needed to buy the gun I sold to buy?? :D
I have learned to view guns as tools, but also to be true to the fact that I'm a gun nut and if I don't factor that into my decision making I will be screwing myself in the long run.
For example, I used to carry a 9mm Hi-Power. I got a Glock 17 for all the usual practical reasons and am very happy with it. I could probably net over $500 if I sold the pistol, mags, holster etc. That would be money I could spend on an Aimpoint or what have you. But I resist the undisciplined kneejerk because I LOVE that gun, and it's a classic, and it goes back on duty when I want my wife to have access to the most stone reliable handgun, the Glock. If I sold it, I would regret it AND end up buying another one. This would be my only caveat to Rob's idea. I have fewr and better guns now than I used to, but I hang on to some regardless of cold-blooded practicality.
In terms of expense and quality, I think we could all get along with AK's and Glocks and 10/22's. Unless you are actually kicking in doors, I don't think it's a big practical issue. But why settle, if you want something better?
KintlaLake
10-20-07, 20:16
"Do I have all the guns I need to carry out my needs?". If you can say yes to that with a simple .22LR Bolt action gun, then that's all you need.
:D Hardly -- at least not for me. But the occasional tryst with my old Winchester reminds me what enthusiasm and mastery are all about.
If I own it, I use it and strive to master it. If I don't use it, it's gone.
Don Robison
10-20-07, 20:30
I lived that way for the first 35 years of my life out of necessity. Now(the last 5 years) that I can afford to buy the "nicer" guns or guns that I wanted then but couldn't afford, I buy them. My everyday stable is a Glock(currently a 21SF), a 6920 and a 14" Mossberg. As soon as I close on my house another 21SF is being added and I'm going to finish the carbine and SBR projects I have started. Just out of habit I suppose, my everyday guns have always been a small selection, but the enthusiast in me buys other guns just because I can.
Not really. I enjoy collecting and shooting surplus military rifles (especially those used by the British Empire/Commonwealth) too much to ever go "bare bones."
Besides, variety is the spice of life.;)
I've gone through the cleansing you suggest many times
It's funny you call it that, because that is kind of exactly what it is. At one time I had 1911s, Sigs, and Glocks, and ARs, FALs, and AKs. Then I started practical shooting and training, and found that I just wasn't smart enough to keep changing platforms. I'd reach up with my left hand to try and release the mag on the AR, I'd ride the slide stop on the Glock and it wouldn't lock open, etc. So I "standardized" on the 1911 and the AR. What it was supposed to be was two ARs and two 1911s. Now with 5 ARs and 4.5 1911s (is the Mustang .380 a 1911?) it's gotten out of hand. :D
When I made the purge, I sold off a FAL, and AK, and my Glocks. Recently I re-bought a Glock (albeit for the girlfriend) and now I'm waiting on an AK I ordered. This is why I think I need the 1-year time lock on the safe rather than selling off the current collection in a knee-jerk reaction.
I have learned to view guns as tools, but also to be true to the fact that I'm a gun nut and if I don't factor that into my decision making I will be screwing myself in the long run.
That's an excellent point. I think everyone, no matter how much they talk about being all about the "practical", enjoys the process as much as the destination. The building, trying, tweaking, etc. is part of the enjoyment. I just find that when I don't have time for the tinkering I get the urge to strip it all down.
KintlaLake
10-21-07, 07:22
...I just wasn't smart enough to keep changing platforms.
We must be related. :D
There are, of course, people who have both the resources to acquire myriad platforms and the time to master them all.
I admire those folks. I'm not one of them.
I have lots of guns, and lots of different guns.
I try to shoot them all at leats once a year. I train with a few dedicated guns, mainly Glock19, 1911, and M4, since I use them at work too.
The rest of my stuff I own for fun. -
I sold my MP-5, G-3, and FN L1A1 to fund a divorce in y2k (sucks as I was in the Army and she was an accountant...). My current HH6 is very understanding as she understands my passion and likes me to enjoy it. Plus my 9 year old son enjoys shooting - and its something we do together (he has a henry arms single shot .22 bolt gun) - no I dont have him into Black guns yet .
You cannot (from my experience) put a price on enjoying your life. I enjoy my firearms, and view them as tools as well.
its only money and you cannot take it with you...
Plus my 9 year old son enjoys shooting - and its something we do together (he has a henry arms single shot .22 bolt gun) - no I dont have him into Black guns yet .
I'm very anxious to take my girlfriend's 10 year old out to the range. I just sold my DPMS .22 upper but I'm going to replace it with one from Spike's. I think he'll most likely be starting out on the old bolt-action Marlin I bought as my first gun, but we'll be moving him up to the .22 AR ASAP. :D
I think we all know most of us have a huge passion for guns, like already said about being gun nuts.
It all depends on the available funds and what platform you currently decide to get into, or deciding on the few must have guns to keep for dependable defensive use.
So it is twofold, one being the workhorse needed, a neccesity, the other being the passion for owning and appreciating other fine weapons.
It was a good comment about the knee jerk comment about selling off one for another and is quite common due to finances but sometimes your interests change over time and when pulling out that gun you haven't shot in years or even looked at other then to keep it maintained you (if it is a quality piece) look at it and learn to really appreciate it again.
I have an old S&W model 19 357 wheel gun, haven't fired it in years, so I figured might as well sell it. Took it out of the box to look it over and I really forgot how nice a gun it is. Factory adjustable outlined sights, top of barrel serrated, superb trigger, fit and finish.
Hell, am going to keep it..:o
Canonshooter
10-21-07, 09:16
...and going with a collection of maybe 4 guns at most, and limiting myself to a budget of 20% the cost of the firearm to customize it.
That has always been my approach, mostly due to economic necessity. I prefer firearms that fit my needs well right out of the box and use the KISS approach to modification.
My AWB-compliant BM M4gery currently has a Magpul trigger guard and tritium front site post, and will soon be set up with the FSC556 brake, CTR mil-spec stock kit, MAID grip, a BCM BCG and a supply of PMags. Nothing fancy, but that is how I prefer a carbine - simple and lightweight.
I plan on holding the rest of my "gun fund" for the purchase of a Masada and accessories, and hope Magpul can make it happen before it's too late in Washington.
Canonshooter
10-21-07, 09:22
I have an old S&W model 19 357 wheel gun, haven't fired it in years, so I figured might as well sell it. Took it out of the box to look it over and I really forgot how nice a gun it is. Factory adjustable outlined sights, top of barrel serrated, superb trigger, fit and finish.
Hell, am going to keep it..:o
Same thought crossed my mind not long ago about my 3-inch Model 66-3 and Model 14-5, until I did my due diligence and found out that the S&W k-frame is now discontinued and how the new S&Ws have that funky lock mechanism everyone seems to hate. Good decision to hold on to your 19 (they will only grow in value)!
toddackerman
10-21-07, 15:49
So much of this I'm relating too recently, and over the last 3 years. I used to have a dozen guns or so, and I liked them all, but have kept only 5. My goal is to have only what I need, because I want all of them. I could afford to have much more, but cant justify it anymore.
1... 16" MRP AR15 with Scout Light and Aimpoint M3. Extra Bolts, Spare Barrel Assembly, and lower parts kit. 20 SHTF Mags. and 10 Range Mags (that could be used for SHTF.), Vickers BFG sling.
1... 1911 that has 12,000 rounds with zero failures. 12 Wilson Mags.
1...870 with SF light, 18" barrel, 2 shot ext. tube, 28" vent rib barrel with choke tubes (for hunting), and 4 round side saddle, and Single Point BFG sling.
1... Rem. M700 18" Scout Rifle with Leupold Scout Scope, and Ching Sling.
1... Ruger M77 .22 cal rifle with 4X scope.
And of course, lots of parts for maintenance.
Soft cases for all, Holsters, Mag Pouches, Tac Vest etc. A great Dillon 550B, and all the tools I will ever need to reload. (Just need to stay stocked on Components, which is where the majority of my money goes these days.)
Just sold 2,000 rounds of SHTF ammo for the AR because if one ammo can full doesn't get it done, the SHTF, and I'm dead.:(
Tack
Canonshooter
10-21-07, 17:57
...if one ammo can full doesn't get it done, the SHTF, and I'm dead.:(
That's my feeling too.
HolyRoller
10-21-07, 21:28
Beware the man that owns one gun. Or at least, one gun for each job that can't be done by another. Also, it helps to have ammo and reloading gear to live-fire the few one-guns left.
I was thinking about this not long ago, and the first gun to go was my match M9. I need to concentrate on the M1911 because it's my fighting sidearm on duty and, when possible, off duty. I'm keeping the stock M9, because it's not worth much and is a substitute off-duty piece, but I couldn't justify $2,200 sitting around in the form of a match M9 when I could convert it to cash. My match 1911 will still do for bullseye and service pistol matches, and will reinforce my work-gun skills instead of interfering with them. One of these days soon, I'll make a 1911 grip for my Walther GSP .22 match pistol for even more reinforcement. 1911s don't fit in pockets well, so my Smith 637 snub is here to stay. I might even turn loose my Walther P5, which is a great little gun but the few hundred it would bring could buy me a progressive reloading press, so that I can get out and shoot more instead of thinking what a nice little P5 I have in the drawer.
For inexpensive yet valuable training, I'll probably keep my Steyr LP10 air pistol even though it could become another thousand bucks, because it's the greatest pistol marksmanship training device ever. And my Walther TPH little .22, even if it fails to fire often enough not to trust it for serious use, because it's wonderful for getting the basics of multi-shot drills down for 2 cents a shot.
I'm sticking with the AR system only for a general fighting rifle, which means my S&W-15 work carbine and a full-length A2 for highpower matches. My AK is up for sale, and I'm afraid my M1 Garand will be going the same way soon, as will the Mosin-Nagants that haven't been outside in years. The proceeds will go toward a precision bolt rifle with decent optics, probably a Remington 700P, which will do things an AR, Garand, or Mosin-Nagant can't, and anyway it looks like I'm going to LE sniper school in a couple weeks.
I'll of course keep the Mossberg 500 because even if it only gets shot at qualification and sighted in the day before, it can fit in anybody else's patrol car trunk. Any longarm available is better than no longarm available. The other day I rode with a deputy who keeps so much gear in his trunk that my AR case just wouldn't fit. We drove off at 100mph to a reported domestic involving a man holding his kids at gunpoint. I suuuuure did think, many times on that ride out there, how nice it would be to have my rifle, and how easily the gauge would have slipped into the last open space in the trunk. Lucky us, it turned out to be a property dispute, and somebody thought it would get us there faster if they said it was a domestic with weapons.
I'm left with:
Work:
Springfield TRP
S&W M&P-15
S&W M637
Remington 700P
Mossberg 500
Beretta M9
Training:
Colt 1911
DCM AR-15
Walther TPH
Walther GSP
Steyr LP10
Until I get rich again, that's my deal--as few types as possible that I can actually train with and shoot often enough, instead of collecting so many good tools that I can't learn them all.
QuickStrike
10-22-07, 05:52
For every platform I would realistically need/use, I try to have at least two of.
One to test and put away for serious business, and one for practice/beater.
Three AR's and three 1911's so far. At this moment I don't really feel the need to get any more.
All my other toys are mainly just for variety/flavor. :cool:
I like the Arc approach as well. I've chosen my main guns and other than that, the others are for enjoying the time doing what I like. Even when training, I thoroughly enjoy doing it, it's never been a chore. If I'm pulling the trigger, it's fun.
If it's not a use specific piece, just try not to buy all of the extra support stuff like mags, holsters and parts. That way it's easier to separate the two uses and it's cheaper--and less debate over which one to use and switching platforms.
Mark
John_Wayne777
10-22-07, 06:45
Ever take stock of all the money and time you have sitting in your safe and think of really getting down to the lowest common denominator with the whole "collection?
Hell no.
I own firearms for serious social purposes...but the majority of my guns were purchased because I just flat wanted them.
The very idea of selling a gun, even one I don't really like all that much, is so morally abhorrent to me that it gives me nightmares.
The very idea of selling a gun, even one I don't really like all that much, is so morally abhorrent to me that it gives me nightmares.
I have always found this mindset sadly disturbing frankly. :eek:
Jay Cunningham
10-22-07, 08:38
..........
FlyAndFight
10-22-07, 08:54
Replace "Firearm" with "vehicle" or "camera" or any other endless list of items and with all things being equal, the same logic holds true.
Each are afforded an endless amount of accessories which (based on the requirements of usage) help the operator perform better and/or the item complete a specific task(s).
In my case, I purchase specific firearms for specific tasks. I also purchase specific firearms for the "fun" of shooting them. These may not fall into the "hammer and baseball bat" column but I honestly couldn't care less. I'm having too much fun.
I also don't have a gun safe with 20 AR's and 15 AK's, etc... I don't wish to do so. But I don't see anything wrong with making a purchase and later on changing your mind and selling it off or changing to another platform. That's part of the learning process. Heck, how many of us have a drawer or bag full of holsters that we aquired, in our search for the "perfect fit"?...
To the 90% of gun owners (non-MIL, non-LEO), I'd guess to say that 90% of their collection falls under the header of "hobby". (The other 10% would be for CCW and home security.)*
*Disclaimer: That's just my guess. Not sure how accurate those numbers are.
John_Wayne777
10-22-07, 08:59
Me too.
I don't get it.
It's not supposed to be logical, fellas.
Addiction isn't subject to reason.
I went through the cleansing process a number of years ago. I had some nice guns, SIG P210, 228, 230, Kimber Compact Classic and some not so nice guns, Ruger Mini14, Phoenix Raven (with pink grips no less):eek: and so on. Just before I took my first class, I bought a used Glock 19 since I didn't want to dirty, scratch or otherwise "hurt" my SIGs or the very expensive mags (this was during the Ban).
After the class and during some soul searching, I sold ALL my handguns except the Glock 19.
Mini-14s were sold off soon there after. After having some poor ARs, 2 LMTs reside in the safe.
Now whenever I think of buying a new gun, I ask myself, "What can x gun do that my current gun cannot?"
Of course, I have different guns for different jobs like the CZ in 222 Rem. for varmints and Marlin 336 for deer. I am guilty of buying the same models of guns that I already have: 4 Glock 19s, 2 LMTs, 2 870s, 2 336s... :D
I am trying to prevent myself from getting to the point where I have to cleanse. I purchased a firearm last fall for the first time so I could give it to my father for Christmas.
In January of this year I decided that I should buy myself something and I got a Bushmaster M4A3 Patrolman's Carbine. Added a Surefire M73 rail, EOTech 552, Pentagon Light, TD VFG and single point sling.
A couple of months later I hear that my agency is going to transition from madatory use of issued pistols to allow officers to purchase and carry what they want. So I buy a 21C and X200 since that is what I bought my father and I feel in love with the simplicity of this .45 cal.
A week or two later I decide that I would like an off-duty/back-up gun to match my 21C so I get a 30.
Then I finally find a Benelli M4 L.E. model which I had been searching for, bam another $1,000+ impulse buy.
At this point I have what I need; a rifle, a shotgun, duty pistol and a back-up.
Around May I discovered that Clyde's was getting Colt 6933's so I make the decision to sell my Bushmaster and go with the Commando. I like the accessories I had on the Bushmaster so I just transitioned them to the Commando and inturn also saved cash by not getting new(er) stuff.
I am on my last long gun, just aquired a Colt M16A4 upper so I can build a replica of my last issued rifle I had while an active duty Marine. I figure that having the 11.5" Commando and this 20" "A4" will cover the rifle spectrum so I am limiting myself to these two. Eventhough, the "A4" will be more for personal reasons just since I carried the FN equivalent. Had a Colt A2 in Iraq so I figured a Colt "A4" would be a good mesh of the two.
I MAY have one more purchase, a Kimber Warrior, so I have a 1911 to enjoy.
Each gun fills a need for me so I hope that I can limit to what I have now and am building now. I don't see any other purposes showing up in my life that I will need a new platform to fulfill so hopefully this is it and I can devote my cash to investments or more training and armorer training on what I have.
Plus, being 25, I need to stop before my finances hurt haha!
Ever take stock of all the money and time you have sitting in your safe and think of really getting down to the lowest common denominator with the whole "collection?
Honestly, no I have not. Some of my firearms are tools and some of them I own just because I also enjoy collecting/owning a wide variety of firearms. I have my Colt 6920 kitted out with LaRue/Aimpoint/Tangodown/Surefire and Glock 17 that are my Go-To guns. The rest of them are not for when the SHTF, but just becaues I enjoy owning them....a personal reference collection of sort.
toddackerman
10-22-07, 13:26
Honestly, no I have not. Some of my firearms are tools and some of them I own just because I also enjoy collecting/owning a wide variety of firearms. I have my Colt 6920 kitted out with LaRue/Aimpoint/Tangodown/Surefire and Glock 17 that are my Go-To guns. The rest of them are not for when the SHTF, but just becaues I enjoy owning them....a personal reference collection of sort.
When I added up everything I own in my "Streamlined Collection" including all associated items like reloading gear, Mags, components, holsters, lights, mounts, lasers, scopes, RDS, accessories etc. the amount of personal article insurance I'm carrying is around $16,000 which includes a $6,000 Engagement Ring. (Full replacement costs.)
Which brings up another point...(Not to hi-jack the thread...) The typical homeowners policy does have a maximum for specific categories. Firearms are usually at $1000 Max. Jewelry is about the same. You all might want to call your agent and find out what you have, and what you would need in case of fire, and/ or theft. You will find you need a "Personal Articles Policy". These run pretty cheap. I think mine is around $125 per year. It wasn't until I sat down and actually added up my articles replacement worth that I made an inquiry if they were covered. They Weren't!
Tack
Concur on the additional policy. Mine is good for loss due to fire, theft, etc. as well as leaving it on the hood of the car and driving off. :D
toddackerman
10-22-07, 13:57
Concur on the additional policy. Mine is good for loss due to fire, theft, etc. as well as leaving it on the hood of the car and driving off. :D
Been there, done that!
I could never think of bare bonesing it and I must have at least 500 rounds per gun for the SHTF. I have a good Ar, Mossberg, and Glock But you have consider this, if the roads are jammed with cars and you need to bug out how in the world are you going to carry all your toys.
toddackerman
10-22-07, 14:35
I could never think of bare bonesing it and I must have at least 500 rounds per gun for the SHTF. I have a good Ar, Mossberg, and Glock But you have consider this, if the roads are jammed with cars and you need to bug out how in the world are you going to carry all your toys.
Just one of the reasons I "Streamlined".
Tack
When I added up everything I own in my "Streamlined Collection" including all associated items like reloading gear, Mags, components, holsters, lights, mounts, lasers, scopes, RDS, accessories etc. the amount of personal article insurance I'm carrying is around $16,000 which includes a $6,000 Engagement Ring. (Full replacement costs.)
Which brings up another point...(Not to hi-jack the thread...) The typical homeowners policy does have a maximum for specific categories. Firearms are usually at $1000 Max. Jewelry is about the same. You all might want to call your agent and find out what you have, and what you would need in case of fire, and/ or theft. You will find you need a "Personal Articles Policy". These run pretty cheap. I think mine is around $125 per year. It wasn't until I sat down and actually added up my articles replacement worth that I made an inquiry if they were covered. They Weren't!
Tack
I have mine insured through Historic Firearms. Reasonable premiums and they have excellent coverage.
I could never think of bare bonesing it and I must have at least 500 rounds per gun for the SHTF. I have a good Ar, Mossberg, and Glock But you have consider this, if the roads are jammed with cars and you need to bug out how in the world are you going to carry all your toys.
I know of many people who evacuated for one hurricane or another in '04 and '05 that took their primaries with them, caulked the safe shut, and hoped for the best. :eek:
Don Robison
10-22-07, 16:30
I know of many people who evacuated for one hurricane or another in '04 and '05 that took their primaries with them, caulked the safe shut, and hoped for the best. :eek:
Been there done that, the last time we evacuated I took the ones that couldn't easily be replaced(sentimental value/no longer produced) then caulked and prayed.In 15 years I haven't had a claim other than the down spout through the windshield of my bronco. Not bad for living less than a 1/2 mile from the Gulf.
toddackerman
10-22-07, 18:02
I know of many people who evacuated for one hurricane or another in '04 and '05 that took their primaries with them, caulked the safe shut, and hoped for the best. :eek:
Yes, but I won't need to worry about caulk and hoping for the best. All my tools will be with me. :)
Tack
What can I say, I am a firearms collector and enthusiast. I have seriously scaled back the accessories I buy but I still enjoy unique pieces.
In 1998, I had a car accident that left me unable to work. It was a Traumatic Brain Injury, and we ended up losing everything, including the guns, to pay the bills. After several years of getting my senses back, (as well as a new, much more likable personality), I am more interested in being financially prosperous than in having a gun collection.
Having said that, I still love shooting, and want to be able to defend my family (a core task). My wife and I are in a positive net worth situation approaching $100K, but that isn't good enough for what we want to do with our lives.
So... we have just enrolled in Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace University, and I can see that I need to find a couple of good guns and stick with them. My gun-trading days cost me big money and I've vowed to never go back there.
I'm going to keep my XD40, My Mossberg 500 (I will get a slug barrel for it) and will eventually get a better carbine than I have right now (Del-Ton chromemoly special). I might even change the Del-Ton's barrel/bolt and go 6.8 SPC (I reload).
Ever take stock of all the money and time you have sitting in your safe and think of really getting down to the lowest common denominator with the whole "collection?
Yessir, every time I take a look at the cost of a new gun and think about all of the other things I could buy for the same money. Especially when considering a new platform and I tally up the cost of support equipment - holsters, mags, pouches, cases, cleaning gear...
Most of us here would say that our firearms are tools, and tools for specific tasks. I myself have likened my guns to a hammer (for work), or a baseball bat (for sport).
This is precisely how I view mine. I used to be an aficionado but, have since regulated myself to what I need, rather than everything I want. I want a high-end 1911 but, don't need it so, it ain't happenin'; especially at a $2,000+ price tag! :eek: (I could buy the FAL that I want instead...) :D
DocMinster
10-23-07, 07:58
I too have recently (past 3 years) downsized & upgraded with the $$.. And I still feel as though I have to many SHTF rifles that I just could NOT carry. But I did stick with NATO rounds and I have myself and the little woman to provide weapons for.
Of course I have those few "Hunting Tools" and Home Defense pieces but I felt I had to retain them out of current necessity.
Downsized
M1 Garand x2 30-06
M1A .308
M1 carbine .30
Marlin .450
Rem 700 .308
RRA AR-15 match .223
Beretta Compact .9mm
Steyr M40 .40
Colt 1911 .45 x2
ON THE WAY OUT
Custom Colt Delta Elite 10mm
Nighthawk Custom Talon 10mm
Retained
RRA M4ergy .223
M1A completely Accurized and scoped .308
HS Precision HTR 2000 .308
Sig 226 NAVY .9mm
Beretta M9 .9mm
Retained for Hunting/Home defense
Browning BAR Safari II .300wm
Marlin .22WM
Remington 870 Scattergun Technologies 12GA use for Home Def. and Turkey Barrel
Bond Arms 410/45LC
I look at my gun collection as a suppliment to my 401k...When Ive had enough and its time to cash out, it should be a nice little chunk...
I agree 100% a gun collection is a investment but I would find it hard to part ways with some of my toys, especially my Glock. Had it since my days driving armored truck,parting with it would break heart.
I don't see a reason to sell a gun other than:
1. I don't like it/it isn't reliable.
2. I need the money or want to put the money into a gun that I want more.
A better question to ask might be what would you buy if all of your firearms got stolen or destroyed in a fire.
Hell... I've been bare bonsing it for years.... I run my AR and my G-17 and that's pretty much it... sure I have a few others (every one has to have a Garand)
I run a M1A for Service rifle (cause I like shooting it in that discipline)
a 1911 as it was my first pistol I Carried
a good .308 for deer
a really good .308 for long range
a few shotguns
a few .22 pistols
1 AK (See the Garand rule)
I use to have more, but frankly.. If I don't shoot them and don't like to that much.. I would rather sell them to get something else..
good example.. I sold My FAL last year.... had it for years.. rarely shot it... helped fund the ACOG that I really like and use all the time.
Sold off a fancy O/U Shotgun... just don't need it as I don't shoot sporting clays much anymore.... Sold that to fund other accessories that I use way more..
but if it comes down to it... I keep the one AR and the G17..... it's what I like.. what I use.. and what I would need in just about ALL scenario's.
I have, over time, reduced my "collection". I am currently down to 4 guns in the safe. I said good bye to most of my collection and don't really miss them. The ones I no longer have I traded or sold to get my hands on a just a few guns that I really like.
A nice 1911
An XD 45
A 12ga pump
and a good AR15
I'm happy with my decision...
In the past I've gone back and forth between bare bonesin' it and owning everything that I was told I should own because it was the latest and greatest. I would own a number of guns and then think about how silly it was to have all that money locked into them and ultimately convince myself that I would be happy with a few great arms. I would then get bored and convince myself that every gun collection, in order to be complete, should have "x" rifle and "y" handgun. Over the past two years, the pendulum has swung towards simplicity if for no other reason making ends meet for my family. There are other things we need and I couldn't justify having a number of those firearms sitting unused in the safe.
Thus, with that in mind, I've tried to pare down to a point that I can personally accept both in terms of serving a function, just having fun, and giving me a little pride of ownership. When it's all said and done, I will be down to one AR, a 1911, a 10/22, and Glock 19.
Joseywales
10-23-07, 20:00
Absolutely not.
1. Everyone enjoys something. Some people live in cheap shit homes and drive Mercedes and Hummers. Some people are on welfare and buy the latest fashionable clothes. I enjoy weapons and hunting. Firearms are important to me. I even picked who I would marry on what her opinion about hunting, guns, and self defense; among other things.
2. Sure, I spend more on guns than I should from time to time. Over the years I have learned to become more selective on what I buy and practice better discernment on when to buy it. This is what prevents me from having regrets. Basically, I will never go into debt to buy a gun or gun related equipment.
3. Most of my guns that I own have an intended purpose.
I have an HKUSP with lights and laser for home defense. It is awsome.
I have a 1911 compact for CCW in the winter.
I will buy a S&W Airlite 38 special for CCW in the summer.
I have a Beretta 92FS for use with my 9MM AR15 and TEOTWAWKI equipment.
I have an SKS and AK just in case the Chinese invade and 7.62x39 is all I can
get my hands on. Besides, they can fire wolf, which the AR does not like.
I own 4 other variants of ARs because I wanted 4 rifles that 4 people can use together and have the same cartrige.
I have an M1A super match because I wanted a semi-rifle years ago that could shoot the ass of a knat. I still need a serious scope for it. I can put an elk down at 400 yards and a person at 700 (at least a person like target).
I have an M1Garund because it is the single most reliable rifle I have ever set my hands on. I love it and it will put an Elk down at 250 yards easy. It is an icon of an age when everything (even toy trains) were built to last forever and felt like you have a tank in your hands.
I have a browning semi shotgun that is exhibition grade. I look beautiful, shoots beautiful (my best clays gun), and works flawlessly. I just don't like to take it to the field
I have a Mossberg 500 for home defense and deer hunting
I have a CZ side x side for bird, rabbit, and squirrel hunting
I have a Mk23 because it has a threaded bbl, fits my hand, has large capacity, and a match trigger. I would sell it if I could get it's value, but is is also a sweet gun. Too hard to part with cheaply.
I have several single action revolvers that I love to plink with. They are great for teaching new shooters and are pleasant to carry, shoot, hold, and look at.
I hope to buy and M60 semi auto, FAL, 22 cal pump rifle, Winchester 1973 or 76, 22 cal pistol, and Colt Lightning copy in 45LC. Maybe even buy some engraved guns for CCW and a Wilson Combat 1911. I need a very accurate bolt rifle for hunting and would love to get a double for African game. Maybe even a barrett M109.
Why stop? You only live once. As long as you can afford it, I see no problem with the accumulation.:D
If I could only have three guns, it would be a 1911, an M1 Garand, and a remington 1187
Been at it since 1959. In hindsight I can see what I needed and should have done. Did my GI time and then 22 yrs LEO, funds limited and lots of other priorities, so always had to proceed carefully. Oddly enough by the time I could throw money around more freely (kids out of college and launched) it wasn't all that big a deal anymore. I have more than anyone needs, including me, and what used to make me salivate now may make me yawn. For some reason when I found something that really, really worked for me, I tended to get multiples of it. Probably something psychological there.
The groupings run like this:
1911s--cut my teeth on them, carried one for work for a while, do better with them than any other semiauto. Of course everyone should have a couple of BHPs as they are just about the same and cool in their own right...
.38/.357 4" wheelguns, Ruger "Sixes" and S&W K frames. Carried a Ruger for many years and we are joined at the hip (literally, as one is still my CCW. A couple of J frames, naturally.
A "few" SA revolvers--just neat guns, although I only shoot one one really well.
About a rifle squad worth of Garands, including a couple of match grade ones. Can still use irons so down the road we go. Real rifles go "ping" on the 8th round. The M1A for the same reason as the BHPs. A M70 06 with 6X Weaver for far stuff.
Sundry .22s, from the 1954 first rifle on up. Just no way to go wrong with them, and no such thing as too many.
M4gery with compact ACOG. A concession to the march of time--light, handy rifle that lets me see like a kid again.
Truth be told I could get along well with one piece from each category and call it good. I like them, appreciate them; even cherish the ones with personal history--but they're all here on loan and in X number of years will all be someone else's. I have parted with quite a few guns over the years, and in retrospect it's all water over the dam.
I have nothing but respect for the man (or woman--my daughter is a shooter) who can make do with less.
I have a hunch that one of these days we will all get more familiar with that notion.
Am I really getting 4 times the gun by using my semi-custom 1911 over a stock Glock?
I'd say having been through the several thousand dollar 1911's you're not getting 4 times the gun not even 1x. Glocks are utilitarian, rugged as all get out, reliable, ugly, seemingly they get the job done. A Yost Bonitz, Wilson Combat etc... is a great pleasure to own and shoot. Though for its intended purpose it does not perform in any shape or fashion better than a Glock. Glocks are easy to shoot decently difficult to shoot extremely well due to the trigger pull. Really to shoot well competively with a glock all you can really shoot are glocks having listened to the nations top Glock shooters. To each his own. I just can't justify carrying a 2k 1911 over a glock. Too many other guns I'd rather have. Like more Ar's.
I know some of you don't want to hear this and it probably applies to some as well. In reference to 1911's, most people I've seen carry or have them just to say they do. They brag about how much it cost and what they've had done or monkey'ed with on it. Or they have it because a friend has one that can really use it and the poser never will.
I know it's your money, but I could never understand why one would spend 1500-3000 on a 1911 instead of a Sig, Glock, HK, Beretta, SW, etc and then get the support equipment and training for the same amount.
My thoughts anyhow---
Am I really getting 4 times the gun by using my semi-custom 1911 over a stock Glock?
I'd say having been through the several thousand dollar 1911's you're not getting 4 times the gun not even 1x. Glocks are utilitarian, rugged as all get out, reliable, ugly, seemingly they get the job done. A Yost Bonitz, Wilson Combat etc... is a great pleasure to own and shoot. Though for its intended purpose it does not perform in any shape or fashion better than a Glock. Glocks are easy to shoot decently difficult to shoot extremely well due to the trigger pull. Really to shoot well competively with a glock all you can really shoot are glocks having listened to the nations top Glock shooters. To each his own. I just can't justify carrying a 2k 1911 over a glock. Too many other guns I'd rather have. Like more Ar's.
I'd have to agree with you 100% but....
To me , I think of the 1911 along the lines of my Harley. Am I getting twice the bike for the money over a $10,000 Jap sport bike. Hell no, that 10 grand bike can run 10 second 1/4 mile all day long out the box, 170+ top speed, and handles like it's on rails. But just got a thing for Harleys. And like the 1911 you can make them run very well.
So it sometimes boils down to what you like and have a passion for if limited in how many to own, spend your hard earned cash on and if/when needed count on it to protect your life.
It's kinda the same with the AR. Many say, and with good reason, a quality AK is all you need and a better choice then the AR. ME, I just love AR's.
If not for the passion, a couple of Glocks (or any other highly reliable non 1911 of your choice), AK's and a good shotgun should pretty much cover the basics IMHO.
In March 1970, I bought a new Colt gm .45 for $115 and still have it. Since then, I've owned about 500 guns( married late & no kids). If I had known decades ago just exactly what would be hot and collectible today, I'd be a rich man. I enjoyed buying and selling and trading. I've always lived in the South where nobody cared what law-abiding folks owned, and I've had some good connections in the industry. So, I got lots of good deals.
I learned that a gun's true monetary value is the highest price that a dealer will pay you. If you shop around, you'll find that some will pay more than others, and pawn shops are to be avoided. Big time collectors are as heartless as dealers. When heirs sell inherited guns, they really get screwed. Usually, these folks know little about guns and are easily misled.
If you have time, you can sell your stuff at gunshows and to fellow enthusiasts. Most of us aren't this lucky. Also, we tend to over-value our possessions, and their worth seldom reflects our expectations.
Money spent on custom work is seldom--never(?)--recouped. Custom finishes, expensive gunsmithing, fancy grips and all the rest is not an investment for the original owner. I regret to say such unpleasant things. Take a prized item by a couple shops and ask what their purchase price is.
I know it's your money, but I could never understand why one would spend 1500-3000 on a 1911 instead of a Sig, Glock, HK, Beretta, SW, etc and then get the support equipment and training for the same amount.
-
I absolutely hate this argument. Much like I can't stand hearing "buy an xyz for half the price and put the money you save into training."
Why does it have to be one or the other? Lack of money has NEVER prevented me from attending training. Lack of time, not wanting to be away from my family, and other scheduling conflicts have.
If I'm not at a training class this month it's not because I have a $3k AR and a $2k 1911, it's simply because real life takes precedence.
Ever take stock of all the money and time you have sitting in your safe and think of really getting down to the lowest common denominator with the whole "collection?
What safe?! (Seriously, I don't have a safe, just a locked closet.)
I have one AR-15 (me), one 10/22 (daughter), one shotgun with two barrels (me and wife), Glock 17 (me), Ruger GP-100 (wife), and Walther PPK (daughter). I also have several thousand rounds of 5.56, 9mm, and .22lr, some 12 ga and .32 (PPK). Am I supposed to have more than this? :D
HolyRoller
10-27-07, 13:27
I know some of you don't want to hear this and it probably applies to some as well. In reference to 1911's, most people I've seen carry or have them just to say they do. They brag about how much it cost and what they've had done or monkey'ed with on it. Or they have it because a friend has one that can really use it and the poser never will.
I know it's your money, but I could never understand why one would spend 1500-3000 on a 1911 instead of a Sig, Glock, HK, Beretta, SW, etc and then get the support equipment and training for the same amount.
My thoughts anyhow---
If 1500-3000 is all you have, then yeah for petesakes, get a 9mm M&P and take a basic class or two and still have money left over for self-training ammo and decent concealment gear. If you have enough money to get proficient with a 1911, then sure, do that, as I have. You may not be able to get a new plasma TV though, and will still be watching a 12-year-old TV set, as I am. Choices, choices.
An expensive custom 1911 is not 4 times as good as a Glock, because you get to the point of diminishing returns. But if a 1911 is what you shoot best with and you like the manual safety, then do what you gotta do financially. Also, when I started at the department last year, the most common questions I got from other deputies were "what IS that?" and "is it supposed to be cocked?" Not everybody knows enough about 1911s to know they're supposed to want one.
Failure2Stop
10-27-07, 13:40
Not everybody knows enough about 1911s to know they're supposed to want one.
:D
Quote of the day. Awesome.
I absolutely hate this argument. Much like I can't stand hearing "buy an xyz for half the price and put the money you save into training."
Why does it have to be one or the other? Lack of money has NEVER prevented me from attending training. Lack of time, not wanting to be away from my family, and other scheduling conflicts have.
If I'm not at a training class this month it's not because I have a $3k AR and a $2k 1911, it's simply because real life takes precedence.
Rob, I'm not saying that people aren't attending training, etc due to the cost of the weapon. It's the statement made in the first section. It's my opinion that the money spent on the 1911 system is a waste. I've had 1911's, so I know from experience. I've seen others shoot them as well, everything from custom to stock. I've yet to see one make it through a day of hard shooting. People are always dicking with them to keep them running. I will always remember a qoute from a Team friend "why don't you get a 1911, they work great if you get them running right" The next mag from his gun, and parts fall off. DInger might have forgotten this one, his Wilson wouldn't run at Blackwater years ago in a class. I forget who else was in it, but their's puked as well.
If you like a toy with tinker with, then I say, it's for you. Remember, it's my opinion bub.
Not everybody knows enough about 1911s to know they're supposed to want one.
__________________
I know enough to know I don't want or need one.
Mark
I know enough to know I don't want or need one.
Yup, after 30+ years of trying like hell to "appreciate" the 1911, I finally got a Glock. With age brings wisdom, I guess. :cool:
Heck its one hell of a gun figuring it was a product of the earlier part of the last century. I am very partial to Hi Powers. I just cannot justify the price of setting one up the way I'd like. So I just stick with tactical tupperware.:)
I am very partial to Hi Powers. I just cannot justify the price of setting one up the way I'd like.
I am partial to them as well. Fortunately for me, aside from grips, the 9mm ones are set up pretty much the way I like, right out of the box.
How'z that for bare-bones.:D
but if I was going to really pare things down, it'd be my .357 SP-101 and my Marlin 1894 in the same cal.
toddackerman
12-17-07, 17:08
I've had 1911's, so I know from experience. I've seen others shoot them as well, everything from custom to stock. I've yet to see one make it through a day of hard shooting. People are always dicking with them to keep them running....
Mark
Well, you're entitled to your opinion, but I believe that it's not based on much fact. I have shot with hundreds, yes hundreds of 1911 shooters, and they would also agree with my points.
Here are some facts....I have had 6 different 1911's and they all ran with some very hard shooting. All of them. One had 30,000 rounds on it and continuously had training sessions of 500 rounds or more without fail, and without "Dicking" with it, including re-lubing. My current 1911 has 12,000 rounds through it without fail. Again, it has been shot "Very Hard".
All tolled I have over 100,000 rounds through these 6 guns, and they are as reliable as any "Machine" can be. Do they need some minor modifications in the beginning. Yep, but that is limited to a Ramp and Throat job, relieve the ejection port, have an extended ejector, good sights, and a good trigger, and good Mags. That's it. Everything else IMO is "Nice" but not necessary.
I have shot the Glocks, and the Springfield XP. They're OK if you want something that is only good out to 20 yds. or so, but then the long trigger pull will keep you from going further on a consistent basis. The single action 1911 can hit Head Shots all day long with the right shooter.
If the 1911 platform wasn't everything I profess it to be, you'd see the top shooters in the world who run their guns very, very hard switch to another type of platform. They've had their chance for >10 years, but they haven't done it.
Jay Cunningham
12-17-07, 17:42
Glock vs. 1911
:(
Linea_de_Fuego
12-17-07, 21:36
Glock vs. 1911
:(
You are right about reading lots of threads about 1911 vs. Glock.
That is until the M&P. ;)
a Glock extended slide stop (hey, I like 'em)
That figures! :p
Anyone want to buy an Escalade?;)
Does it come with a collection of Gangsa Rap CDs?
How the hell did this old-ass thread get resurrected?
How the hell did this old-ass thread get resurrected?
A lot older threads got resurrected recently. ;) Your shorty Colt one as an example. :p
Failure2Stop
12-18-07, 11:32
There seems to be a rash of zombie threads right now.
It appears that the TOS crowd is so eager to combat the undead, they are resorting to coming to this site and raising threads from the dead.
To answer the original question, I'd answer "yes, but...".
I was once a small-time Sig addict. I got tired of needing mags, leather, ammo etc for 3-5 different platforms(226 in 9, 226 in .40 and .357, 228's, 239 in 9, some .45ACP for good measure- you get the idea). I finally settled on the 228 and never looked back.
But- if I lucked into a good deal on a 210 I'd have to do it. I'd liken it to your Harley vs. Rice Rocket analogy.:D
As far as rifles go, I am forced to keep it simple. I live in CA, and only have 1 registered lower. I have a few uppers- which gives me a little flexibility- but it's not the same as having a bunch of complete rifles. Even with that restriction, I get by just fine.
BTW- as one of the newbs, I kinda like any "olde" thread as long as it has some timeless relevance(sp?)
I think it got resurrected because it is a great topic. I have just recently statred to ponder this question and recently sold three guns to thin the heard. I am selling my USP tactical and going with a glock or M&P. I cant see having $1000 tied up in a hand gun when you can get another rifle for close to that amount of money. After shooting an AR for the last year I realize how superior an AR is to a handgun. I am going to just have a carry gun in .45, a bug out gun in 9mm, and a couple of AR's. I dont see a real use for more than that for my situation. I just cant see leaving that much money tied up in guns with small kids and all the other things you can buy with that money. I am thinking about doing what some of the other posters said and getting duplicates of the same gun to have a back-up that seem like a good idea. Anyway, great thread!
Ever take stock of all the money and time you have sitting in your safe and think of really getting down to the lowest common denominator with the whole "collection?
My "collection" is my hobby. Why would I want to "
bare bone" my hobby?
It's just as simple as that.
Isn't the first rule of gun ownership 'if you sell it you'll regret it'?
http://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/smiley_bucktooth.gif
GastonG-NoVa
12-20-07, 23:07
I have thought about it, at times. I was forced to do so, when my Dept. decided it would be a "great" idea if we got some
M16A1s from the federal government for free. This sounds like a really great idea from the administrators desk....something for nothing, but there is no free lunch.
The reason I post this info here is that I went from carrying my own 14.5" LMT M4, with surefire light, Aimpoint, and a bunch of Larue......to a 20" gun with no light, optic, or collapsable stock. I was suddenly issued the same rifle that I was handed back in basic training 20 years ago:eek:
I was aware that the new/old/museum pieces were coming, so with the help of Rob/GotM4, and a bunch of Colt A1 parts, I (Rob really, gotta give credit where credit is due)put together a A1 configured rifle. I completed my project just in time to attend Pat Goddale's three day advanced rifle/pistol class. The class was more heavily rifle than pistol, and was outstanding!
I also brought to my fully dressed LMT M4 to the class. Shooting the class with the old A1 and M4 gave me a real appreciation for five inches less barrel! There was lots of movement and unorthodox shooting positions......I missed my aimpoint horribly while doing these drills.
My bare bones Iron sighted rifle did have its moment to shine. Any time we were shooting from the prone, at 100 yards plus, with daylight, the long sight radius of the 20" gun shined. Unfortunately, these conditions are not the same as what I work in, as they make me go to work sometimes ..... at ...... night :confused: .... who would have thunk it!!
In a nutshell, my thoughts are screw bare bones if there is something that will assist you in staying vertical. Let the other guy take the dirt nap, so make sure you go with the best configuration out there,if possible, that is if you value your tail!!
If they won't let you drive the hotrod, then jump into your pinto, train up, and get as proficient as you can.
Train Train Train
Stay safe,
G
TheGhostRider
12-22-07, 22:44
Bare bones................
Yep!
I've been thinning the herd for awhile now. I've been selling guns off left and right over the last few months.
I've got one more precision AR left to sell then I'm going to start looking at some of the other stuff I've accumulated over the years.
It's time to lighten the load and consolidate my stuff.
My poor wife would have a nightmare if I croaked today. I've got more shit than I know what to do with and when I really look at it I realize that its more of a burden than an asset.
My philosophy has changed over the years from "the more the merrier" to "less is more".
With the price of ammo I'm shooting less so having duplicates of everything seems illogical. I use to collect all types of guns in all types of calibers. Now I find myself levitating more toward the easier to acquire and "somewhat" lower cost calibers... not that 5.56 is cheap anymore but it sure beats .308, .303 brit.
The one oddball that I still have is 30-30. I can't give up my Marlin 336.;)
9mm has become my main ammo. My G17 and my CX4 are what I shoot the most.
I used to average 4k per month down range between 45, 9mm, 5.56. Throw in another 1k in 7.62x39.
Now I'm lucky if I fire 250 rounds of any centerfire a month. Thank heavens for .22Lr.
I own quite a few rifles. In recent times, I have been shooting the Ruger 10 / 22 more than the shotgun or AR. It's just dirt cheap and an evening of fun can cost like 20 bucks.
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