View Full Version : Most corrosion resistant finish
I am trying to figure out a sub compact pistol to buy to wear in a 5.11 holster shirt while I cycle and run. This gun is going to be exposed to lots of sweat directly on it. So I am looking for a gun, preferably from the factory, with excellent corrosion resistance. I dont want to have to break the gun down and give it a thorough cleaning every time after I ride. I realize that no finish will sustain this for a long time and does need to be cleaned from time to time and will eventually wear out, but I dont want the gun to rust on my first ride. Subcompact and 9mm are two of my requirements.
I shoot M&P's and have 4 currently so I was thinking of another MP9C. The other gun I was contemplating was a G26. Anything else I should look at? Both of these guns are around the $400 mark at LEO pricing.
I wouldnt mind looking at a PPS 9mm, PM9, Solo9, etc..., but I am not sure if their finishes will hold up to all the sweat I am going to be leaving on this thing plus the price on them for a gun I am going to beat up is turning me off.
Nephrology
06-30-11, 15:58
You are going to want the lightest pistol possible. Jogging with even a G26 is, uh, not easy. Trust me.
I wont be jogging with it much if at all since I hate jogging. However cycling is something I do almost every day. Right now all I am carrying is my Griptilian and rinsing it off with water and hitting it with the air compressor after every ride.
Nephrology
06-30-11, 16:03
I wont be jogging with it much if at all since I hate jogging. However cycling is something I do almost every day. Right now all I am carrying is my Griptilian and rinsing it off with water and hitting it with the air compressor after every ride.
OK. A G26 sized pistol might work then I suppose. i have never tried the 5.11 holster shirts but it better be stitched well enough to hold the gun in question.
Melonite and tenifer used on the M&P and Glock pistols respectively are nearly identical forms of ferritic nitrocarburizing and both will serve you well. I'd go with the M&Pc if you already own multiple M&Ps.
arcticlightfighter
06-30-11, 17:32
OK. A G26 sized pistol might work then I suppose. i have never tried the 5.11 holster shirts but it better be stitched well enough to hold the gun in question.
Melonite and tenifer used on the M&P and Glock pistols respectively are nearly identical forms of ferritic nitrocarburizing and both will serve you well. I'd go with the M&Pc if you already own multiple M&Ps.
Ill second this. My standard M&PC 9mm rides in a Crossbreed for similar outdoor ativities and has to this point been rust free.
Fire_Medic
06-30-11, 17:36
Have you considered a Ruger LCP with the factory hard chrome? (I believe it's hard chrome)
If not I would just get the M&Pc, or Baby Glock of choice and use it as is until it needs to be refinished. Should be quite a while. Then send it off to Robar for NP3 plus at that point.
Magic_Salad0892
06-30-11, 17:38
Kahr PM9, send it off to WMD guns for either a Nickel Boron, or Nitrocarbonizing treatment.
Or Glocks. Glock's Tenifer (from what I know) is the second hardest surface on Earth, next to Diamonds, and from what I'm aware of they'll never rust.
HK pistols also fare very well in the rust, and durability department.
Alpha Sierra
06-30-11, 17:45
Or Glocks. Glock's Tenifer (from what I know) is the second hardest surface on Earth, next to Diamonds
Uhhh, no.
Silicon and boron carbide are softer than diamonds and yet will eat through Tenifer treated steel like nothing. Tenifer is just another variation of nitrocarburization.
Ill second this. My standard M&PC 9mm rides in a Crossbreed for similar outdoor ativities and has to this point been rust free.
A gun in an a supertuck isnt going to be covered in the amount of sweat a bare gun next to a moisture wicking undershirt is(at least not IMO). Im thinking I will probably pick up another MP9C, although a G26 is smaller.
Have you considered a Ruger LCP with the factory hard chrome? (I believe it's hard chrome)
Im not considering an LCP when there are other guns in that size class(or similar enough) in 9mm, which I already reload for and have a considerable stash of good carry ammo(which IMO doesnt hardly exist for .380).
The ONLY reason I lean towards a G26 is they are VERY easy to get locally where M&P's are few and far between and getting one at LEO pricing is even harder. This gun wont be shot much(500-1000 break in and a box of carry ammo) so I am not worried about manual of arms to much compared to my M&P's.
Any insight on the finish on the Kahr PM9(or CM9), Walther PPS, Ruger LC9 or the new Kimber Solo9?
As much maintenance as I am wanting to do on this gun will probably be to field strip it after a ride, spray it down with water(to remove sweat and salt), blast it with compressed air to dry it, a little oil and back together. Maybe once a month or every other month do a real cleaning on it.
it's hard to make a glock rust in my experience.
Buckshot TX
06-30-11, 22:36
it's hard to make a glock rust in my experience.
Yeah, unfortunately I can rust a Glock. The think my pH must be just this side of sulphuric acid:mad:. FailZero is the only finish I haven't been able to rust thru (yet :confused:?).
Try a FailZero Glock from Talo. I have been able to fit a G19 in the 5.11 compression shirt.
If the 19 is too big, you can always have WMD Guns coat it in Nickel Boron.
O
I wont be jogging with it much if at all since I hate jogging. However cycling is something I do almost every day. Right now all I am carrying is my Griptilian and rinsing it off with water and hitting it with the air compressor after every ride.
I do a lot of running and hard play with my Glock 19 daily, I clean it every few weeks or if it ends up submerged in water or mud; havent had an issue with corrosion yet.
Yeah, unfortunately I can rust a Glock. The think my pH must be just this side of sulphuric acid:mad:. FailZero is the only finish I haven't been able to rust thru (yet :confused:?).
wow i've soaked my g19 with sweat on a number of occasions, but yeah, nothing is rustproof... except plastic... your rails and internals hold up ok? do they failzero those as well? :confused:
Alpha Sierra
07-01-11, 06:14
Is it really that hard to run an oily rag over the outside of the gun sometime after using it hard?
In the US? Seriously?
Hogsgunwild
07-01-11, 06:55
I have three various sized waistband Camelbacks. Two of which I have used for about 24 years now. I have done a lot of serious mountain biking in several states with these as well as jogging.
For jogging I would usually only take the water if I was bringing my German Shepherds. All three of these bags have extensively carried guns such as the Glock 27 and 23 as well as my Colt Defender and CCO. One bag even has a vertical access pocket that you can slide the gun out of by just reaching behind. The other bags have a zipper with a string attached that is fairly quick to access. I normally carry a knife (for a weapon but also very necessary for removing cactus) a spare magazine in the side access locations and my cell phone.
The bags look like they are for water but a lot of times I don't bring water, just the gun etc. On my bike I usually just carry water in a bottle mounted on the bike unless I need a greater quantity.
If I really want to ride light, my Rohrbaugh R9 rides very comfortably
in my bike pants front pocket in a pocket holster. I barely notice it is there when riding and it does not get sweaty.
Last time I rode I took my new HK P2000 and the R9 just to see how it would work and it was perfect.
The trick with the waistband bags, especially when used for jogging, is to adjust them so they are tight enough to the body and the heavy items are located as close to your body as possible to avoid the bag from bouncing around.
I prefer not to wear a shirt when riding and jogging so the waist pack is nice in that regard also.
I forgot to mention that the 1911s were in the bags in a holster for safety but the Glocks fit well in the bag with the vertical pocket. The G27 saw the most use of all of the guns while biking and jogging and it was sweat on through the pocket a lot over the years. I always wiped it down when I returned home and the thing never looked worn at all.
I have one of these 5.11 shirts for rare occassions requiring deep concealment and it's nice to have for those occassions but I have found it dicey for certain guns.
I would never consider carrying a condition 1 Glock in it and keeping the Glock in even a pocket holster to shield the trigger gets way too thick for my application.
But when carrying anything larger than a j frame, I have found that the under arm pockets will not retain the gun securely if I bend forward. The j frame will sit deep enough and with it's minimal mass it will stay in place. However I have found that a 2" K frame or Glock 26 or 19 will tend to creep out in a bent over forward position.
So much so that went trying it out once I sat down and bent over to tie my shoe and the gun slipped out and was loose in my tucked in shirt.
YMMV.
I have seen good reviews on these products from pretty experienced folks on LF.
http://www.survivalsheath.com/holsters/index.htm
I have three various sized waistband Camelbacks. Two of which I have used for about 24 years now. I have done a lot of serious mountain biking in several states with these as well as jogging.
For jogging I would usually only take the water if I was bringing my German Shepherds. All three of these bags have extensively carried guns such as the Glock 27 and 23 as well as my Colt Defender and CCO. One bag even has a vertical access pocket that you can slide the gun out of by just reaching behind. The other bags have a zipper with a string attached that is fairly quick to access. I normally carry a knife (for a weapon but also very necessary for removing cactus) a spare magazine in the side access locations and my cell phone.
The bags look like they are for water but a lot of times I don't bring water, just the gun etc. On my bike I usually just carry water in a bottle mounted on the bike unless I need a greater quantity.
If I really want to ride light, my Rohrbaugh R9 rides very comfortably
in my bike pants front pocket in a pocket holster. I barely notice it is there when riding and it does not get sweaty.
Last time I rode I took my new HK P2000 and the R9 just to see how it would work and it was perfect.
The trick with the waistband bags, especially when used for jogging, is to adjust them so they are tight enough to the body and the heavy items are located as close to your body as possible to avoid the bag from bouncing around.
I prefer not to wear a shirt when riding and jogging so the waist pack is nice in that regard also.
I forgot to mention that the 1911s were in the bags in a holster for safety but the Glocks fit well in the bag with the vertical pocket. The G27 saw the most use of all of the guns while biking and jogging and it was sweat on through the pocket a lot over the years. I always wiped it down when I returned home and the thing never looked worn at all.
I have thought about wearing a fanny pack of sorts to carry, but it just is not comfortable on the rides I do, plus it looks kind of out of place when I am in full road kit. I have thought of a belly band, but I just dont know much about them.
I have one of these 5.11 shirts for rare occassions requiring deep concealment and it's nice to have for those occassions but I have found it dicey for certain guns.
I would never consider carrying a condition 1 Glock in it and keeping the Glock in even a pocket holster to shield the trigger gets way too thick for my application.
But when carrying anything larger than a j frame, I have found that the under arm pockets will not retain the gun securely if I bend forward. The j frame will sit deep enough and with it's minimal mass it will stay in place. However I have found that a 2" K frame or Glock 26 or 19 will tend to creep out in a bent over forward position.
So much so that went trying it out once I sat down and bent over to tie my shoe and the gun slipped out and was loose in my tucked in shirt.
YMMV.
HMM. So there is nothing to secure the pocket closed like a little velcro?
I have seen good reviews on these products from pretty experienced folks on LF.
http://www.survivalsheath.com/holsters/index.htm
The problem with something like a shoulder holster rig is wearing road gear its pretty tight so something like that would DEFINITELY print.
You are going to want the lightest pistol possible. Jogging with even a G26 is, uh, not easy. Trust me.
You're right, jogging sucks, with or without a pistol. I've been doing it lately, with a Glock 19, IWB - not really jogging, but running, two miles. I just figure it's not supposed to be easy, and it sucks no matter what you're wearing. That said, the sidearm doesn't bother me at all. It doesn't get all sweaty, but my Kydex holster does. Still, I give it a quick cleaning when I'm done. Doesn't take long with a Glock.
I've got a PPS 9mm as my CCW and it is a gem to conceal when compared to other pistols, but I have to admit that I worry about taking the finish off of the slide due to sweat. I sweat a lot and like everyone has said, no metal is truly rustproof.
The kydex holster works well, but sweat eventually works it way around and it is uncomfortable for running.
I've also used the camelback bags for running/hiking/walking with the PPS in it and that works great because those bags were designed to hug the waist for activities like that.
Overall, I would suggest NP3 Plus coating from Robar and will get it done shortly to my PPS. It has anti corrosive properties with ridiculous lubricity.
http://www.robarguns.com/np3%20plus.html
cheers
Buckshot TX
07-01-11, 11:28
Is it really that hard to run an oily rag over the outside of the gun sometime after using it hard?
In the US? Seriously?
Spoken like someone whose never had to carry IWB 18+ hours a day outdoors in 100+ degree humid weather for long stretches. Rust happens between wipedowns! I'm glad I don't have to live that way these days, but extreme duties can & do occur. If life carries me to that situation again, I'll be more dillgent & execute daily maintenance 2X.
I'll gladly admit that Glocks have the MOST corrosion resistant factory finish I've ever used - stainless steel rusts much faster on me than the average Glock.
I have had a speck of rust turn up on a rear frame rail once, but that's been the only internal rust I've ever encoutered.
HMM. So there is nothing to secure the pocket closed like a little velcro?
The problem with something like a shoulder holster rig is wearing road gear its pretty tight so something like that would DEFINITELY print.
Oh yes, "road gear". I got it. I didn't appreciate what that was initially.
My 5.11 shirt holster does have small velco tabs but they are so small as to have a very slight "purchase" and open up very easily. There may be designs with a full strap - the one I have does not.
Also this shirt is HOT. It is marketed like Heat Gear but it's seems to hold heat in like Cold Gear.
I'm 5'11 and weight ranges from 165-170. Pretty slim. The bulge of a Glock in this underarm position is noticable unless I'm wearing a fairly full cut button down shirt.
I don't regret having one around even though it didn't pan out quite as well as I'd hoped. You might wanna give it a try. If it doesn't work out perfectly, it'll come in handy some day.
Hogsgunwild
07-01-11, 13:23
If you do look at waistband Camelbacks / fanny packs, obviously the wider / larger the belt (some are padded, which is best) the more comfortable it will carry, especially when loaded down.
I would give you the models of mine (if I were home) but they do not make my two favorite ones anymore. Too bad because the smaller one (a one liter model) has really nice wide side padding that makes it so that it did not need a very wide belt. Both are very comfortable.
For mountain biking I like how the waistband bags keep the center of gravity a bit lower than the Camelbacks that go on your back. Once you add your gun, water and whatever else it can make a difference on steep inclines and declines. Using a frame mounted water bottle for the first quart onboard helps with the balance as well.
Spoken like someone whose never had to carry IWB 18+ hours a day outdoors in 100+ degree humid weather for long stretches. Rust happens between wipedowns! I'm glad I don't have to live that way these days, but extreme duties can & do occur. If life carries me to that situation again, I'll be more dillgent & execute daily maintenance 2X.
I'll gladly admit that Glocks have the MOST corrosion resistant factory finish I've ever used - stainless steel rusts much faster on me than the average Glock.
I have had a speck of rust turn up on a rear frame rail once, but that's been the only internal rust I've ever encoutered.
It is said that the corrosiveness of sweat varies among individuals. I have soaked a carry gun in sweat all day long in FL for a July week anyway and never had a blemish on the Glock 27 that took that abuse. I can't seem to rust my jframe 637 that way either although it's never had the extended all day treatment the Glock got.
LanceOregon
07-01-11, 15:13
My solution was to simply buy the handguns that I liked the most, and then have them refinished with Robar's NP3 Plus:
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/lanceJOregon/guns/DSC_2938b.jpg
Here is a link to info about the different coatings that Robar offers, and info on their resistance to corrosion:
http://www.robarguns.com/precision_coatings.htm
.
Hogsgunwild
07-01-11, 17:30
IonBond is supposed to be a very good coating. I have two 1911s on order with it.
My Springfield Pro has Black T on it. If memory serves me correctly, this is what they use to coat submarines(?). Please correct me if I am wrong. This gun has been carried for about a year straight in Phoenix and it looks great. It's appearance is similar to parkerizing which is aesthetically pleasing to me.
My stainless Series 80 Colts requires the oily rag to keep some of the hardware on them from rusting when carried as I always do, IWB.
Has anybody tried this shirt?
http://masterofconcealment.com/pgroup_descrip/104_Concealment+Clothing/6946_UnderTech+Undercover+Concealment+Shirt/?mode=image
my mountain biking setup lately is my g19 in a raven holster with a wilderness belt over my bike shorts (yeah, spandex, don't knock em til you try em) and a loose jersey or coolmax shirt... it prints a little, but not too bad. most people aren't looking for a gun on a guy all geeked out in mountain bike gear... so :D
definitely some sweat collects in the holster and on the gun, but i've had no rust with the glock.
my mountain biking setup lately is my g19 in a raven holster with a wilderness belt over my bike shorts (yeah, spandex, don't knock em til you try em) and a loose jersey or coolmax shirt... it prints a little, but not too bad. most people aren't looking for a gun on a guy all geeked out in mountain bike gear... so :D
definitely some sweat collects in the holster and on the gun, but i've had no rust with the glock.
not going to happen in the riding gear I ride in. Its got to be comfortable and since I usually wear an under armor shirt anyway(I wear bib shorts and the straps rub my body raw if I dont) so it wont affect me that much. The 5.11 shirt doesnt seem like it has the greatest retention. This other shirt I linked looks like it might be better.
not going to happen in the riding gear I ride in. Its got to be comfortable and since I usually wear an under armor shirt anyway(I wear bib shorts and the straps rub my body raw if I dont) so it wont affect me that much. The 5.11 shirt doesnt seem like it has the greatest retention. This other shirt I linked looks like it might be better.
i also have one of those ka-bar fanny pack holsters. it's worth a go... i switched to the holster/belt under jersey because i'm a lot more confident in getting the gun out fast if it's in the same position i always wear it, and also it's more concealable and comfortable than i had initially expected. but yeah, pretty much makes tight jerseys a no-go.
Easy answer: Glock 26
Definitely not any kind of Sig product!
I would also second (or third...) some kind of camelbak waist pack customized w/ a holster. Dual purpose. Low profile. And consistent. Those shirt holsters suck.
TheSmiter1
07-03-11, 00:19
You are going to want the lightest pistol possible. Jogging with even a G26 is, uh, not easy. Trust me.
While I don't recommend running with weight, I used to do so, often. While adding 30-45 lbs of weight and running is significantly more difficult than not, having something firmly secured to your body while running (while weighing no more than 3-5lbs) is not difficult. I ran 4.6 miles earlier, going up in elevation about 3200 feet (and obviously down as far) with 2 lbs of water in my hand, and it isn't difficult in the slightest, so for trained LEOs it would likely be even easier.
I would be more concerned about running with a pistol because I wouldn't know where to place it or firmly secure it without a belt (running shorts and under armor) and would be very concerned when doing conditioning such as jumping jacks, up downs, mountain climbers, various push ups, and other common exercises. Biking, on the other hand, I wouldn't be as concerned about.
Edit: maybe wear an instructor belt or some other firm method of securing the pistol underneath your PT gear, and place the pistol on a holster in this fashion? I have no idea, and I've always wondered about carrying while PTing. I'm thinking of getting a Glock 26 or khar or something to wear for PT, but for the amount I sweat, I think I'd go for the Glock.
You have several options and with my metallurgical background I'll say this:
HK
Glock
(These are low carbon steel . LCS responds much, much better to Melonite/Tenifer/Tufftride than stainless steel - S&W M&P, Sig)
Use various nitrocarburization processes for the barrels and slides.
The conversion layers are more corrosion resistant than hard chrome, thicker than hard chrome and more salt water corrosion resistant as well.
For around $100 you could have any of the above pistol slide assembly coated with Tungsten Diamond Like Carbon (W DLC) which is an extremely tough, hard high performance thin film coating. It's the same coating that Sig Sauer uses on it's forged stainless pistol slides.
That's the best combo of manufacturing processes available that I know of.
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