Help on a college build! [Archive] - M4Carbine.net Forums

PDA

View Full Version : Help on a college build!

RandomGunNut

07-01-11, 00:36

Facejackets

07-01-11, 01:42

Palmetto State Armory has a deal on , OE rifle kits. It's about $540, and all you need is a stripped lower

Iraqgunz

07-01-11, 01:50

RGN,

This isn't a custom build topic. I encourage you to do some reading. You won't like my advice, but here it is. Save your pennies a little longer and make sure to get the right parts. In your case I advise not building an AR, but you have already ventured down the path.

There is no need for you to have an AR right now. It's all about a want. Search for a quality off-the-shelf AR that will meet NJ's silly ass laws.

digitalpaladin

07-01-11, 09:17

I am leaving for college in the fall and want an ar15 I can use on summer breaks for the next four years. It cant be more than $700 but only plan on putting 4000 rounds through it till its retired. When I graduate I will build a nice, quality, lightweight, 18" middy SPR with only Colt/DD/BCM/Novesky/(quality builder here) parts. But till then I will need a cheap place holder to satisfy my urge, and since it will be a cheap bullet unloader I plan on getting a short gas 16". Although this will be a cheap place holder for a good rifle I would like it to be reliable for the 4000-5000 rounds with frequent cleaning.

For that price range there are very few uppers I'd suggest. M&A Parts and Model 1 Sales both offer complete "AWB" kits in your price range but have mixed reputations.

Below are links to some "AWB kits" for NY/NJ residents. There are more but this is a good starting point.

NJ Firearms Application:
http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/info/pdf/firearms/sts-033.pdf

NY/NJ AWB compliant kits-

16" kits:
http://model1sales.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=202

http://model1sales.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=219

http://model1sales.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=228

AR-15 Depot Uppers (These will need a perm attached muzzle brake or muzzle nut for the threaded barrels):

http://www.ar15depot.com/uppers.htm

Also it needs to be built from parts, I have already purchased a DPMS lower pts kit for ~$50.00 from Midway (sale till July 4th), have my eye on a Aim Surplus lower for $60 and a cheap C.A.R. sock with buffer-toob and assembly for $35 (will have it shipped to PA gunsmith 10min away and pinned). How is that for a lower? And what can I get for $550 that will do what I need it to do?

I really wish you hadn't already jumped on the LPK. With your budget buying a complete parts kit would have been a better solution. Those cheap (UTG/TAPCO/Leapers etc) stocks are garbage and the buffers that come with them are under sized. As far as lowers go, the Surplus Arms will do fine. Here is a recommended NJ legal stock with buffer and spring included:

http://www.stagarms.com/product_info.php?cPath=19_28&products_id=373

P.S. I live in New Jersey but on the border and have a PA gunsmith very close. For the most part if anything is NJ illegal I can ship it to him and he can make it legal (I want this to be above board).

I'm currently living near Paramus NJ and have lots of building tools. If you need help just let me know. I've built several NJ legal AR-15 rifles.

PlatoCATM

07-01-11, 09:19

Buy a .22 trainer like the S&W and shoot a lot more than 1000 rounds per year. You will get more practice and should be able to shoot it more often if there is an indoor range near you. Save your money for what you really want then, because you will never recover the investment of a low quality firearm.

ReaperAZ

07-01-11, 09:24

yhmspecter

07-01-11, 09:47

I second that
What he said.

TMS951

07-01-11, 09:48

When I was younger (21), I really wanted an AR, I could not afford one. It was also still during the time of the Fed AWB.

Like you I still really wanted something to shoot, and hold me over until I could afford an AR.

I bought an AK, it was a WASR10. It was a POS, but went bang every time and I had a great time with it. It cost me 300$ shipped and transferred and came with 3x 30rnd. mags and one 40rnd. Ammo was also cheaper too, which allowed me to shoot more.

Today I have a few very nice ARs I have built. I also still have the AK, I don't use it buts its nice just to have an example of one and understand how it works.

Alex V

07-01-11, 09:50

What he said.

+1

Or go with the other advise and but the SW .22 AR with non threaded bbl, pin the stock and go nuts with the bulk .22

I hope you are living at home while going to school cause I can't imagine any NJ school allowing you to keep a firearm on campus. I got asked to talk to the "Student Life Admin" at NJIT for expressing pro gun views lol. And at the time I did not even own a firearm.

I'm in central jersey if you need help and I know quite a few very qualified welders who can help with perming a brake onto a BBL. One did a BC1.5 on a Noveske 18" spr bbl for me and it looks great.

Either way you go, good luck.

My advice will sill align with IG.

mhanna91

07-01-11, 09:53

Any personally owned AR15 that is not required for duty, no matter who it belongs to, is a want and not a need. On topic: This is how I look at it... If you really want one now, save a couple hundred more dollars and buy some quality parts or a quality off the shelf gun, that way when you are out of college you will have something worth keeping and not a trash-bin pile of shit that you will probably lose $2-300 on if you sold it, which is money could have been spent on a quality gun from the get-go. If you compromise now, you will lose money later when you decide to go with a serious weapon. Why have an AR around if you wouldn't feel comfortable taking it into harm's way?

rob_s

07-01-11, 10:04

I'll deviate from the pack...

You've clearly stated your budget and your goals. I say build your cheap parts gun and go shoot it. It's a hobby gun, have fun with it. When it doesn't work or breaks, learn to fix it.

I'm not sure I understand what you have and what you don't, and what all you need to fit into that $550 limit that you mention. Be more clear and I'm sure we can help you out. you might look at something like this (http://www.spikestactical.com/new/z/spikes-tactical-16-midlength-le-upper-556-p-392.html) if what you're looking for is a complete upper. you can certainly do a lot worse.

mikeahe

07-01-11, 10:33

Go to G&R Tactical
LMT Defender Lower-Standard Stock and Trigger (L7C2) $330

LMT M4 Upper $448

Add a MOE handguard, a BCG, and a charging handle, you will have a carbine to be proud of.

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Hmac

07-01-11, 10:37

There is no need for you to have an AR right now. It's all about a want.

I'm not clear on why "wanting" is so much less valid than "needing".....Sounds like a valid plan to me. Go for it.

hamster-in-a-wheel

07-01-11, 10:47

So your budget is $550? How about this:
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XSTU5035MOE&name=Spikes+Tactical+16%22+Mid-Length+5.56%2f.223+Upper+Receiver&groupid=55
I have one, and it seems to get the job done (though in the interest of glasnost, I've only put a few hundred rounds down the pipe).
Also, check the chart in the technical section. Hope it helps; I know what it's like to be broke.

Oops...I didn't even notice Rob had linked to the same product on Spike's website. Better make it a "+1" then.

Iraqgunz

07-01-11, 10:48

The point being that it is not needed for duty use or something else. Wanting it means something entirely different.

It is more prudent to wait for a little longer to have a functional reliable weapon than a microwave piece of shit.

I'm not clear on why "wanting" is so much less valid than "needing".....Sounds like a valid plan to me. Go for it.

Hmac

07-01-11, 10:58

The point being that it is not needed for duty use or something else. Wanting it means something entirely different.

It is more prudent to wait for a little longer to have a functional reliable weapon than a microwave piece of shit.

I understand that from one point of view, those are entirely valid concepts. My only observation is that the OP is a college student who want's an AR plinker, and if it fails, then all it does is provide him with yet one more hobby outlet approach in that now he gets to troubleshoot and repair the gun. Reliability for him isn't nearly of the same importance as reliability would be for you, for example. Cost is more important to him than reliability. There is a certain segment of the population where that's a valid concept.

Iraqgunz

07-01-11, 11:26

I know what you mean. But, I don't look at AR's as "plinkers". That is why they make .22's like the S&W's, et al.. and Ruger 10/22's.

My current daily driver is an AK (contract dictated) and not by choice. However, when I am home my GTG weapon is my SBR. I look at an rifle as a primary defense weapon whenever possible. Hence my sigline.

I understand that from one point of view, those are entirely valid concepts. My only observation is that the OP is a college student who want's an AR plinker, and if it fails, then all it does is provide him with yet one more hobby outlet approach in that now he gets to troubleshoot and repair the gun. Reliability for him isn't nearly of the same importance as reliability would be for you, for example. Cost is more important to him than reliability. There is a certain segment of the population where that's a valid concept.

RandomGunNut

07-01-11, 13:01

Accidental double post. Mod delete?

RandomGunNut

07-01-11, 13:22

Well here is some more info, I am going to college in Florida (PCC). The only part that I have bought is the lpk and I am waiting for it in the mail, so I can either return it or sell it to a friend to make make the money I spent on it. I appreciate the suggestions and am seriously considering a lot of them including a compromise on iraqguns idea by building a gtg gun slowly over the next few years. But with that I would like to ask if I build the perviously mentioned lower + quality stock, and build a upper with and 80.00 stripped and dd bolt and barrel, how would that work to help the quality/reliability? Btw While I am at college I have relatives, friends and family members who have gladly volunteered to keep the barrel warm lol. But that is beside the point.
Wether or not I like the suggestions I haft to admit they are all good, thanks and keep them coming!

GeorgiaBoy

07-01-11, 15:09

Just build the cheapeast carbine that you can. Later down the road, buy a quality carbine.

Shoot away.... But remeber, its YOUR money, use it how YOU want it. If you want a cheap plinker/dirt clod shooter, do what you want with it.

JSGlock34

07-01-11, 17:08

Double post - please delete.

JSGlock34

07-01-11, 17:10

You should be able to snag a Smith & Wesson M&P 15 Sport (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_786006_-1_757785_757784_757784_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y)well within your price range. Factory rifle with an excellent warranty. MSRP is right around $700 - should be able to find it for less - I see a few on Gunbroker right now for $619 shipped (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=238968634) (I'm not affiliated with the seller). Here's a review (http://thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/06/benjamin-t-shotzberger/%EF%BB%BF-gun-review-smith-and-wesson-mp15-sport/).

http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson2/upload/images/firearms/zoom_lg/811036_01_lg.jpg

WBAR

07-01-11, 17:55

For what it's worth, buy the best component pieces you can afford for now, put them together and shoot it as much as you can afford. Further on down the road when your finances allow, either trade it for a higher grade weapon, or upgrade components on the one you started with. Good luck with your choices both in weapons and in life. WB

JSGlock34

07-01-11, 19:02

I'd take a factory rifle over a parts build any day of the week. With a limited budget, a warranty matters. If something is wrong with the M&P 15 Sport, S&W will likely send you a mailing label to ship it back for repair - their customer service is outstanding. If something is wrong with a kit rifle that you built on the cheap, you could find yourself owning a money pit as you sink more funds into an effort to fix it. And a factory rifle will be easier to sell when you are ready to upgrade down the line.

My two cents.

Iraqgunz

07-01-11, 23:44

The S&W shortcomings are few and known. I agree that it would be the most probable selection and with a few tweeks would be worthwhile.

I'd take a factory rifle over a parts build any day of the week. With a limited budget, a warranty matters. If something is wrong with the M&P 15 Sport, S&W will likely send you a mailing label to ship it back for repair - their customer service is outstanding. If something is wrong with a kit rifle that you built on the cheap, you could find yourself owning a money pit as you sink more funds into an effort to fix it. And a factory rifle will be easier to sell when you are ready to upgrade down the line.

My two cents.

mechelaar

07-02-11, 00:10

If you can swing another couple hundred, you can buy something a lot better. Another option is to troll the equipment exchanges here and on TOS for used parts. I was able to put together a gently used BCM upper/LMT lower rifle for around $590. Honestly, it's my favorite rifle and my much more expensive guns sit in the safe.

If you're looking for the absolute cheapest new build, I'll second the Palmetto State Armory recommendation. No personal experience with one, but the specs look decent for the money. 1/7 twist chrome lined barrel, MPI/HPT bolt, and mil spec receiver extension for $480. Throw in a lower for $80, and you are at $560 before shipping for the complete rifle. Definitely specs out better than some DPMS crap. Also, I have ordered stuff from PSA and always been happy with their customer service.

The_War_Wagon

07-02-11, 00:30

There is no need for you to have an AR right now. It's all about a want. Search for a quality off-the-shelf AR that will meet NJ's silly ass laws.

THIS. Oh - and transfer to a college in a REAL state, if you can.

strambo

07-02-11, 10:42

Sell the DPMS LPK to break even, get the PSA build kit. Add rear sight, shoot, enjoy.

http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/2252.php standard furniture

http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/2253.php MOE furniture

hunt_ak

07-02-11, 12:20

The S&W shortcomings are few and known...
Would S&W be your choice for an 'off the shelfer'? I'm talking big commercial names like S&W, RRA, DPMS, CMT, etc?

Few and known? Summary of them?

Iraqgunz

07-02-11, 13:02

No. I would be choosing a Colt, DD, LMT or Noveske. All of those are "off the shelf".

I was referring to an OTS in his price area since he doesn't want to wait.

If you USE the ORANGE search button, and type in S&W M&P15 there will be plenty of information to choose from.

Would S&W be your choice for an 'off the shelfer'? I'm talking big commercial names like S&W, RRA, DPMS, CMT, etc?

Few and known? Summary of them?

hunt_ak

07-02-11, 13:09

No. I would be choosing a Colt, DD, LMT or Noveske. All of those are "off the shelf".

I realize that. I was curious as to what the general consensus was on the 'mass makers' (obviously Colt excluded because they crank out many, many of these) and who is on top of that realm...

If you USE the ORANGE search button, and type in S&W M&P15 there will be plenty of information to choose from.
I realize that. I'm learning that one must wade through hours of 'talk'to find the few posts that they are searching for. Is it faux pas to ask such questions in hopes of a quick one/two sentence response? Not being sarcastic here, just wondering how to get the most out of this site without spending an eternity wading through thousands of posts...

Iraqgunz

07-02-11, 13:14

There are few "mass makers" that I would purchase. In fact, I prefer to build my own because I get exactly what I want at the price that I want it at.

I recommend the SEARCH feature for one reason. There is no substitute for research. There are people like Grant who have provided plenty of information about S&W rifles and carbines.

I realize that. I was curious as to what the general consensus was on the 'mass makers' (obviously Colt excluded because they crank out many, many of these) and who is on top of that realm...

I realize that. I'm learning that one must wade through hours of 'talk'to find the few posts that they are searching for. Is it faux pas to ask such questions in hopes of a quick one/two sentence response? Not being sarcastic here, just wondering how to get the most out of this site without spending an eternity wading through thousands of posts...

hunt_ak

07-02-11, 13:18

Thanks

shaneinhisroom

07-02-11, 14:27

Agreed. Screw what others say and get what you want to get. When (yes, when) it breaks, learn to fix it. And when (yes, when) that breaks, fix it again.

When you want to get a better AR-15, come back, read the site in detail and start saving up your money. I'm doing my build in pieces and saving up funds to build the best rifle I can afford, so I know it will go bang each and every time I pull the trigger. I'm like you- it's not a duty weapon, it not my primary home defense weapon, but I just love having the best of the best.

If you want to plink thousands of ammo at a time though, get a .22 AR. They're fun to shoot with and is practically free.

JSGlock34

07-02-11, 16:39

The S&W shortcomings are few and known. I agree that it would be the most probable selection and with a few tweeks would be worthwhile.

No. I would be choosing a Colt, DD, LMT or Noveske. All of those are "off the shelf".

I was referring to an OTS in his price area since he doesn't want to wait.

Just to clarify my recommendation of the Smith and Wesson M&P 15 Sport (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_786006_-1_757784_757784_757784_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y), I agree with all of the points Gunz has made. Given the option, I'd save a few more pennies and purchase a DD, Colt or BCM. My personal rifles are KAC, Noveske and LMT.

That said, the buyer has laid out a budget (under $700) and a purpose (recreational range use), and given those parameters I think the M&P 15 Sport is the best option. While I haven't used the Sport, a member of my shooting group has a M&P 15 that has been very reliable, and I'm comfortable recommending S&W.

As for the noted shortcomings, the Sport lacks a forward assist or a dustcover as cost savings measures. Were I dragging my rifle through dirt and mud in harms way, I'd want these features, but they are hardly essential on a range rifle and even some rare military issue rifles (Air Force GAU/5A) lack the forward assist. The barrel is a melonited 1 in 8" twist vice a MILSPEC chrome lined 1 in 7" twist, but I doubt most users would notice the difference, and I think this barrel is a better choice than many of the commercial 1 in 9" twist barrels that are offered at this price point. Again, my two cents.

Here is a thread on the Sport (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=83136). Here is another review (http://thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/06/benjamin-t-shotzberger/%EF%BB%BF-gun-review-smith-and-wesson-mp15-sport/).

skyugo

07-02-11, 18:43

Palmetto State Armory has a deal on , OE rifle kits. It's about $540, and all you need is a stripped lower

anybody running one of those? it has good features.. i know the QC won't be up with a BCM or something.. but interesting....

Toyoland66

07-02-11, 19:57

This is the cheapest you can go for a no compromises, but no frill build from proven parts. (in my opinion).

DD upper (smart gunner) 409
DD bcg (aim) 130
Mil spec charging handle 20
Moe hand guards 35
DD or Troy fixed rear sight 65
Surplus ammo & arms stripped lower (aim) 60
DD lpk (aim) 80
BCM M4 stock kit 65

Total 864 + any ffl transfer fees and shipping

Buy the big stuff when you have the Money, and when the good deals are in stock. Quality stuff isn't much more money and will hold its value better if you need to sell it.

RiggerGod

07-02-11, 21:37

Your on the path but taking the detour toward the outhouse.

Cheapest, decent quality, off the shelf, build project I've seen:
Palmetto State Armory. Right around 550 OTD.

However, I have seen basic factory Colts recently for right around your point of 700 (okay maybe as much as 800). Look around. Try CDNN.

I got my first ar when I was in the military. Started building hardcore after I got out in 2005 when I was in grad school so I know all about building on a budget. A dedicated .22 was my second full build and this was before they were as popular (and inexpensive) as they are right now. A .22 AR is a beautiful thing. It's a gun a poor college student can afford to shoot and train with. Regularly. Team it up with one of the .22 pistol conversion of your choice and enjoy. If you need to get your hands on a real AR there is always ROTC. They give you guns for free! Hahaha:D

PS: Get the hell out of NJ.