Mk18 Ammo Question

[sinlessorrow]

hello, hopefully i have this in the right place. i was having issues with the search so if this doesnt belong here feel free to move or let me know:smile:

now on to the question.

i have a new DD MK18(10.3" bbl, 1/7, 5.56) and im wondering what is the best HD/bugout ammo that i can stack deep without breaking the bank?

i have a few mags of TAP 75gr, but at $1 a round its hard to really buy in bulk, so im looking for the next best thing while still staying at about .50 cents per round and lower

thanks to anyone for the help :smile:

[GermanSynergy]

M193 / M855. Available from any number of online vendors and site sponsors.

[Magic_Salad0892]

M193 / M855. Available from any number of online vendors and site sponsors.

As a self defence round? ...

No.

But I guess at $0.50 a round, I guess that's all he can afford.

I prefer BH Mk. 262.

[Iraqgunz]

Start by reading this thread.

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19881

Remember that you only need xxxx amount of true self defense ammo. If you think that M193 and M855 won't kill people, you need to do some research.

I have about 600 rounds of TAP on hand. For the most part it stays loaded in magazines. If I find myself in a situation where I blow through that then I will be happy to take almost any 5.56/.223 ammo I can lay my hands on.

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

I have about 600 rounds of TAP on hand. For the most part it stays loaded in magazines. If I find myself in a situation where I blow through that then I will be happy to take almost any 5.56/.223 ammo I can lay my hands on.

No doubt!

[sinlessorrow]

Start by reading this thread.

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19881

Remember that you only need xxxx amount of true self defense ammo. If you think that M193 and M855 won't kill people, you need to do some research.

I have about 600 rounds of TAP on hand. For the most part it stays loaded in magazines. If I find myself in a situation where I blow through that then I will be happy to take almost any 5.56/.223 ammo I can lay my hands on.

thanks for that, one of the things i was thinking about getting was a can of federal MK318, but im not sure about it, this whole ammo thing in general is like a foreign language to me

i know how to put together ar-15's and shoot them but ammo i usually go on other peoples word lol

[Iraqgunz]

Most people who have a clue will tell you that putting rounds into the desired area is probably more important than ammo selection. I guess you could say that I am part of that crowd as well.

One thing about gunfights that you need to remember. There are no absloutes. People have died from gunshots that probably shouldn't have and some have lived when they should have been feeding the earth.


thanks for that, one of the things i was thinking about getting was a can of federal MK318, but im not sure about it, this whole ammo thing in general is like a foreign language to me

i know how to put together ar-15's and shoot them but ammo i usually go on other peoples word lol

[Ironman8]

Most people who have a clue will tell you that putting rounds into the desired area is probably more important than ammo selection. I guess you could say that I am part of that crowd as well.

One thing about gunfights that you need to remember. There are no absloutes. People have died from gunshots that probably shouldn't have and some have lived when they should have been feeding the earth.

I definitely agree with the above, however if you are looking for the "optimal" round for an MK18 type system, well first there's really no such thing, but I suggest you look into bonded rounds for longer range, and if you can get your hands on some TAP T2, that is the most effective fragmenting round out of the 10.3" barrel, but the "effective range" will only be 50-65 yds.

M193/855 will work, but I forget what the "effective range" is. Like was posted, if you are in a bad situation, I don't think you will care much what kind of lead you are throwing down range...just as long as you have some!

I'll try to find some threads for you that addresses this issue. Btw...the orange search button up at the top of the page is the one you need to use.

[sinlessorrow]

I definitely agree with the above, however if you are looking for the "optimal" round for an MK18 type system, well first there's really no such thing, but I suggest you look into bonded rounds for longer range, and if you can get your hands on some TAP T2, that is the most effective fragmenting round out of the 10.3" barrel, but the "effective range" will only be 50-65 yds.

M193/855 will work, but I forget what the "effective range" is. Like was posted, if you are in a bad situation, I don't think you will care much what kind of lead you are throwing down range...just as long as you have some!

I'll try to find some threads for you that addresses this issue. Btw...the orange search button up at the top of the page is the one you need to use.

Thanks for the help, Thats partly why i have issues stocking TAP, the price. $1 per cartridge is alot for me, especially when im really trying to stock up on ammo

I know a place i can get a can(820 cartridges) of mk318 for $600
They also have 1k m855 and xm193 for $280

[C4IGrant]

hello, hopefully i have this in the right place. i was having issues with the search so if this doesnt belong here feel free to move or let me know:smile:

now on to the question.

i have a new DD MK18(10.3" bbl, 1/7, 5.56) and im wondering what is the best HD/bugout ammo that i can stack deep without breaking the bank?

i have a few mags of TAP 75gr, but at $1 a round its hard to really buy in bulk, so im looking for the next best thing while still staying at about .50 cents per round and lower

thanks to anyone for the help :smile:


Since SBR's have a short fragmentation range, it makes sense to go with a barrier blind type round. Some of the best and most reasonable priced ammo is the Speer 2448 and 24455. This ammo will give you much longer range and perform better through glass, wood, etc.

http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?search=action&category=SPEE



C4

[Ironman8]

Before you buy any ammo, I suggest you read up some more and really try to understand the ballistics that you will be getting out of a 10.5" barrel and what different types of ammo does...this should get you started:

Ballistics on a 10.5" barrel??? (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=38754)

SD Ammo: narrowed down to 3...help me pick (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=78904)

best SBR ammo? (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=53610)

Federal XM223SP1 62gr Bonded (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=73955)

Chrono Data - Federal XM223SP1 62gr Bonded (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=80557)

Is this now the best all around defensive .223 round? (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=64708)


*As a note: My picks for a 10.5" barrel would be:

TAP T2 for HD at CQB distances out to 50-65 yds.

Federal XM223SP1 for longer ranges. This performs just like the Speer GD 24448 except it isn't loaded as hot and is cheaper if you want to buy bulk. Should still get you out to at least 100 yds with good ballistics, but the Speer will probably get out further and with better accuracy.

[C4IGrant]

but I suggest you look into bonded rounds for longer range, and if you can get your hands on some TAP T2, that is the most effective fragmenting round out of the 10.3" barrel, but the "effective range" will only be 50-65 yds.

Have you seen the Hornady 62gr 5.56 Barrier TAP (8125N)? It has been changed from the standard steel core type round to bonded round? I would use this over the T2 round with an SBR.

http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=8125N



C4

[Ironman8]

Have you seen the Hornady 62gr 5.56 Barrier TAP (8125N)? It has been changed from the standard steel core type round to bonded round? I would use this over the T2 round with an SBR.

http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=8125N



C4

No I haven't seen that actually. Very interesting. However, I guess I should have specified that I would use the TAP T2 pretty much strictly for HD where I don't want a barrier round.

That Hornady TAP Barrier looks awesome...But out of my price range right now.

[sinlessorrow]

Before you buy any ammo, I suggest you read up some more and really try to understand the ballistics that you will be getting out of a 10.5" barrel and what different types of ammo does...this should get you started:

Ballistics on a 10.5" barrel??? (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=38754)

SD Ammo: narrowed down to 3...help me pick (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=78904)

best SBR ammo? (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=53610)

Federal XM223SP1 62gr Bonded (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=73955)

Chrono Data - Federal XM223SP1 62gr Bonded (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=80557)

Is this now the best all around defensive .223 round? (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=64708)


*As a note: My picks for a 10.5" barrel would be:

TAP T2 for HD at CQB distances out to 50-65 yds.

Federal XM223SP1 for longer ranges. This performs just like the Speer GD 24448 except it isn't loaded as hot and is cheaper if you want to buy bulk. Should still get you out to at least 100 yds with good ballistics, but the Speer will probably get out further and with better accuracy.

Thanks for that, lots of good info there. I think ill just but 100-200 rounds of tap t2 when i can and save up and use my stock of M855 at the ranges

Thanks for all the help everyone

[RAM Engineer]

While I agree with all the posts above stating that you don't really need 1-2K of "true self defense ammo", I would also like to point out that you should run a couple hundred rounds MINIMUM of your chosen ammo through your rifle to verify functionality. Obviously I've never been in combat as part of the .mil or into harm's way as an LEO, but I would not rely on even the best quality ammo without a compatibility check with my rifle/mags.

Also, you need enough extra to zero and periodically confirm zero with that ammo, if that is what you plan on grabbing on "the day".

[thehun]

Most people who have a clue will tell you that putting rounds into the desired area is probably more important than ammo selection. I guess you could say that I am part of that crowd as well.

One thing about gunfights that you need to remember. There are no absloutes. People have died from gunshots that probably shouldn't have and some have lived when they should have been feeding the earth.


Amen im with you

[EzGoingKev]

If you are not worried about barrier blind ammo then you might shop around for some Partizan 75g.

[SomeOtherGuy]

If you are not worried about barrier blind ammo then you might shop around for some Partizan 75g.

All the chrono data I've seen on the Prvi Partizan 75gr match type ammo is painfully slow, like 2500fps or less out of a 16" barrel. I haven't chrono'd any myself however.

[Ironman8]

If you are not worried about barrier blind ammo then you might shop around for some Partizan 75g.

Why wouldn't you want barrier blind? One of the only applications I can see a fragmenting round like TAP T2 out of a 10.5" is for HD or when you KNOW you will be in a CQB environment. Otherwise I would want a barrier round.

[Hootiewho]

I guess because I don't have kids or close neighbors I see things a bit differently. If some assclown and his buddy's come in on me I do not want a round that will give him an advantage should he get behind cover such as a wall, appliance, vehicle...., so my vote goes to one of the bonded or barrier blind rounds available. I cannot stand the thought of wasting the precious rounds I have on my person trying to effectively shoot some guy ducked down behind a Fridge full of food, due to the fact the bullet I chose not holding up throught that kind of obstacle. That said, everyone has different needs and I am aware of that. I personally am very fond of the Barnes offerings after doing some back yard testing and hunting. Previously I was sold on the 70gr pill, but the 50gr is starting to look very appealing. That said, Gold Dot, Mk 318, TBBC....are all GTG in my book.

[saari09]

When I was in the service, 5.56mm was just another bullet to me. I didn't know much about terminal ballistics and what not, however I have seen many people meet their maker from M855 from M4 carbines and MK18s at 200m+. The old saying "It aen't the song it's the singer" is to true.

[30 cal slut]

I have about 600 rounds of TAP on hand. For the most part it stays loaded in magazines. If I find myself in a situation where I blow through that then I will be happy to take almost any 5.56/.223 ammo I can lay my hands on.

If you blow through 600 rounds of TAP in a defensive situation ...at home ... u b in some deep kimchi. :eek:

I have a few mags of 75 gr TAP set aside for HD use. I think that will get me through whatever unpleasantness I need to get through before tapping into my stash of FMJBT.

[regal]

Federal XM223SP1 for longer ranges. This performs just like the Speer GD 24448 except it isn't loaded as hot and is cheaper if you want to buy bulk. Should still get you out to at least 100 yds with good ballistics, but the Speer will probably get out further and with better accuracy.

Not a wise choice for a MK18, out of a 14.5" M4 it barely chronoed 2450. The powder selected for XM223SP1 is obviously a slower burn longer barrel type, not an mk18.

At the top of the Doc's thread he is favorable of these bonded types, but he has access to 5.56 loadings. Only he can give an honest answer on this but IMHO the relatively inexpessive xm223AP1 is not a good value for SBR AR's. The best deal is going to be mk318 for a Mk18 for those on limited funds. Notice that Doc'shis thread picks this round in itallics at the very end of the thread.

As said earlier for HD you only need a few mags, so spend the money for the 24448 over the xm223sp1 I mean 2400 fps out of the muzzle with a 62g bullet with a 14.5" barrel is probably down right irresponsible to recommend for a 10.5" HD, I would literally pick a 9mm +P over that. At least we have seen gel testing, the xm223sp1 needs chronoed and gel tested from an mk18 barrel before any responsible person goes and recommends it for an mk18 SD. Even XM193/M885 has some history with short berrels. We are talking about peoples/families lives here, not something to play guessing games with.

[Ironman8]

Not a wise choice for a MK18, out of a 14.5" M4 it barely chronoed 2450. The powder selected for XM223SP1 is obviously a slower burn longer barrel type, not an mk18.

At the top of the Doc's thread he is favorable of these bonded types, but he has access to 5.56 loadings. Only he can give an honest answer on this but IMHO the relatively inexpessive xm223AP1 is not a good value for SBR AR's. The best deal is going to be mk318 for a Mk18 for those on limited funds. Notice that Doc'shis thread picks this round in itallics at the very end of the thread.

As said earlier for HD you only need a few mags, so spend the money for the 24448 over the xm223sp1 I mean 2400 fps out of the muzzle with a 62g bullet with a 14.5" barrel is probably down right irresponsible to recommend for a 10.5" HD, I would literally pick a 9mm +P over that. At least we have seen gel testing, the xm223sp1 needs chronoed and gel tested from an mk18 barrel before any responsible person goes and recommends it for an mk18 SD. Even XM193/M885 has some history with short berrels. We are talking about peoples/families lives here, not something to play guessing games with.

You obviously haven't done your research. Go to the orange search button and type in Federal XM223SP1 and read the threads that have been posted on the ballistics of said round....OR to make it easier on you, just click the links that I posted on the subject in this VERY thread...post #11...In fact, I will post the most informative thread HERE (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=73955) for you!...I know, its hard to do research....


ETA: I see that in the thread I posted for your viewing pleasure above, you were actually a "contributor" (for lack of a better word) to the thread....actually you were arguing with Doc about the same thing you are arguing here. I don't know what your love affair is with MK318, but your claims are obviously unfounded. I only speek for myself, but I know that I would much rather take Doc's opinion on the subject than your unfounded beliefs...you are the one being "irresponsible" and "playing guessing games".


............

Now that you have read those, you will see that the terminal performance is extremely similar (I believe Doc used the term "analogous" and "exact") to SPEER GD 24448. The only difference is accuracy is slightly better with the 24448 and is loaded a little hotter than the SP1 (which will extend your range...slightly). XM223SP1 has been shown to fragment down to 1900 fps velocities out of a 7.5" AR...so your claim is absolutely false.

Now on to my post that you seem to have a problem with:
1) The OP asked for a round that he could "stack deep without breaking the bank?".....I think I answered his question pretty adequately given all the new research you've just done.

2) From a MK18, TAP T2 would be my choice if I were going with a fragmenting load...but the "effective range" (disregarding the human element) is only about 65 yds.

3) When I say that for "longer distances" I would chose the SP1 for a BUDGET barrier blind load, (that is with and emphasis on the "er"). I don't expect to shoot 500 yds with this stuff, nor would I want to...but never discount it at that distance either...SF snipers have been reported to take out enemies out to 6-800 yds with MK262 which has significantly less "effective range" than that. My goal with a long(ER) distance round is to be able to get to at least 100-200 yds. I believe, based on data, that this round CAN do that effectively.

[regal]

Ironman, I'm not attacking you I am trying to be rational about this, Doc actually says in the thread you referenced basically not using less than a 16" barrel with this ammo (last page top post.) I know you are intellegent enough to read between the lines when he said this load should be available in 5.56 but only the neutered version is available (lawyers.) Its your life and family to protect, but I have the energy and feel the responsibility for the OP to know the full story and not big ammo industry spins.

[Ironman8]

Ironman, I'm not attacking you I am trying to be rational about this, Doc actually says in the thread you referenced basically not using less than a 16" barrel with this ammo (last page top post.) I know you are intellegent enough to read between the lines when he said this load should be available in 5.56 but only the neutered version is available (lawyers.) Its your life and family to protect, but I have the energy and feel the responsibility for the OP to know the full story and not big ammo industry spins.

That's fine I'm being as rational and explanatory as I possibly can be, but it seems that you want to stick with the same argument even though the facts have been layed out in front of you.

Doc's statement about the 16" AR had absolutely nothing to do with the SP1 specifically. He was talking about the utility of the barrel (read: terminal ballistics performance across ALL ranges of ammo) over a SBR. That holds true regardless of what ammo goes through it.

As for the part about 5.56, now we finally agree on something! I would buy a "XM556SP1" over the current XM223SP1 ANY DAY OF THE WEEK...but due to lawyers or whatever, that round is not in existence, so why even waste your time talking about it? Sure, there are other 5.56 barrier loads, but then it goes back to what can you afford to "buy 'cheap' and stack deep", much less what is decently available to the general public?

As far as it "being my life and family" to protect, as of today (where there is "Rule of Law"), do you really think that the extended "effective range" that the MK318 will give you means squat when the max range that you would likely be shooting is less than 20yds in a defensive situation??? Based on the data, again, I would trust my life on the SP1 in a HD situation out of an SBR way more than I would M193/855.

I have posted this before in another thread, but even in a "TEOTWAWKI" situation, I wouldn't want to make 200+ yard shots either. Tactics would change from offense to conserving your life and just E&Eing around/past a threat. Playing Rambo for any length of time would just get you killed in the end. I would rather be "invisible" than to have to fire a shot in defense/offense (which would undoubtedly be, statistically speaking, well under 100 yds). Is the ability there to take LR shots with an SBR and still be combat effective? Sure! Happens all the time overseas, but unless you are carrying a SPR or Recce type rifle built for precision, there is no need to make LR shots, so I would take an MK18 with ammo of known ballistics any day!

See where I'm coming from now?

[regal]

Yes I do. It is unfortuate as you say that we customers are forced into these sacrifices because dillrods use 5.56 in .223 barrels:mad:, I just look at the reported ~2400 fps from a 14.5" barrel which is no faster than the .223 75g loads. So right from the muzzel you are already down 20% in KE, just doesn't make sense they would charge a nice 62g bullet like this with so little powder that it doesn't leave the muzzle any faster than a heavy 75g.