View Full Version : Bulged 9mm cases after bullet seating w/pics
Hey Guys,
So I am finally reloading and its been a good expierience so far. I have 600 de-primed and sized cases awaiting primer insertion and I have 100 primed cases waiting for powder and bullet insertion. I am charging my cases with 6.3 grains of Blue Dot and am seating a 125 gr. Sierra projectile with an OAL of about 1.077. I check my rounds after loading each one and a couple are coming out with bulged necks where the bullet seats. Right now the average inside diameter of the primed and sized case is around 0.349-0.351 and my Sierras are reading at about 0.344-0.355. I took some pics on macro on my phone to try and get a good shot to let you guys take a look. My load data does not indicate a compressed powder charge and I have re-measured OAL after 24 hours and the round stayed the same length. So let me know what you guys think. If I have to pull the rounds and re-do certain things I will because I want these first loads to go bang and not the gun. Thanks.
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll50/wintertyrant/2011-07-01_19-05-50_985.jpg
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll50/wintertyrant/2011-07-01_19-05-05_281.jpg
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll50/wintertyrant/2011-07-01_19-03-52_100.jpg
If the OAL is still correct and they chamber without issue in your gun, I would not worry, personally. 9mm tend to do this with longer bullets and in my experience, as long as it chambers correctly (or fits your case gage) and the bullet is inserted at a good/correct OAL then it should be fine.
If the OAL is still correct and they chamber without issue in your gun, I would not worry, personally. 9mm tend to do this with longer bullets and in my experience, as long as it chambers correctly (or fits your case gage) and the bullet is inserted at a good/correct OAL then it should be fine.
Great thanks Chad, I'm going to post a pic of the round dropped into my Glock barrel and maybe you can give me the yay or nay.
Great thanks Chad, I'm going to post a pic of the round dropped into my Glock barrel and maybe you can give me the yay or nay.
I am not a glock shooter so I am not sure I will be able to say. However, compare it against a factory round dropped into the barrel.
You can also use your caliper to measure the points behind the bullets. You will probably notice it is a little smaller than a factory round.
Are you using 9mm bullets or .38/.357 bullets?
Luke
Don't load too many without trying them out!
Are you using 9mm bullets or .38/.357 bullets?
9mm bullets would be 124 grain wouldn't they?
Luke
There are 125gr 9mm bullets (originally made for 357 Sig). I don't know what this one is he is using. The 357 Sig ones generally have a different profile than typical 9mm but they work for some people in some guns. No personal experience.
They are 125gr. Sierras. I know there are 124gr but the load data in my book was for 125gr rounds, also, more than a couple will fully chamber as deep as re sized rounds its only been a small handful that look this way, I measured against some 115gr bullets I have and the diameter is the same. I am going to check what kind of brass the bulged ones were loaded into because its not all the same brass
Are u using a Lee Factory Crimp die as a 4th stage? That die can really help with the kind of problems you're experiencing. WB
No fourth die but I do have the dillon crimp die, do you think I should crimp the rounds?
Boxerglocker
07-02-11, 23:14
Are u using a Lee Factory Crimp die as a 4th stage? That die can really help with the kind of problems you're experiencing. WB
And can really affect accuracy. LFCD's are just a band aid fix, correct die adjustment is the key.
OP, I second everything that Chadbag has already given. I'll add one more suggestion though. Make sure you have enough flare, you should give it enough that a bullet will comfortably sit on the case. It will ensure consistent OAL and straight seating.
I have seen this some with 9mm myself but never worried about it as long as the bullet was in straight (by Mk I eyeball) and they were dimensionally good enough to go in the case gage or chamber. They have always gone bang.
Thinking about it, they appear to be under sized after sizing for some reason which is why the bullet appears to bulge out. In reality, I think, (without measuring them) that the case is just undersized. Maybe some brass is stiffer and when sized does not "spring back" as much as standard brass. (Just thinking off the cuff). In other words, when run through the sizer, after coming out, the brass should "spring back" a little to normal size from slightly under sized, and some may not do so as much. I am assuming that when sized down, the brass will want to expand back out a little ("spring back") once it leaves the confines of the sizing ring inside the die.
The Lee FCD has its place in 9mm, but only in certain circumstances where a combination of brass, and gun, and die dimensions, conspire against you. From how it has been explained to me.
If you have brass that was fired in a Glock factory chamber, and size it with the Dillon sizing die, and are shooting the round in a gun with a more normal 9mm chamber (like an M&P for example), and not quite as loose as the unsupported Glock chamber, it is possible that the very bottom of the case may not be correctly sized and rounds will not quite chamber correctly every once in a while. (I will explain later why the Dillon die does this). If you are shooting this in a Glock again, then it is no problem. Also, the problem does not occur if you are using brass fired in a more normal chamber to begin with as the brass does not expand as much in the first place.
In this specific case, the Lee FCD can be used at the end to "resize" the very bottom of the case in a little bit more and make things happy. Or so I've been told.
I buy once fired brass, some of which has been shot in a Glock (based on statistical likelihood), size with the Dillon sizing die, and shoot an M&P. I get a small number of finished rounds that won't quite seat all the way (just a smidgen). I have the Lee FCD but have not yet installed it. Hopefully it works according to theory and according to what I was told when it was recommended to me.
In normal use, without all of these circumstance lining up, I would not bother with the Lee FCD.
The reason this problem happens with the Dillon sizing die is that the die has a wide radiused mouth for better reliability and ease of use on a progressive and due to this radiused mouth, the very bottom of the case may not quite get sized in all the way. But you have a lot easier time sizing compared to using a normal single stage type die with a tight mouth, where the tolerances of the ball detent in holding the shellplate may conspire against you and the plate is off just a hair and the case rams the die instead of going up into it. The wide radiused mouth catches the brass and guides it in.
Rounds look about like what comes out of my Dillon dies. Shot thousands like this and never thought twice about it. I think the Dillon sizing die's are possibly under sized slightly so that the rounds will chamber in more guns.
No fourth die but I do have the dillon crimp die, do you think I should crimp the rounds?
How are you taking the belling out(from the powder throw die) if you are not using the crimp die? You dont need a lot of crimp, just enough to take the belling out. If you aren't removing the belling the rounds generally wont chamber. This wont get rid of the slight bulged cases.
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll50/wintertyrant/2011-07-02_12-17-45_847.jpg
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll50/wintertyrant/2011-07-02_12-17-29_886.jpg
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll50/wintertyrant/2011-07-02_12-17-06_54.jpg
I will also post pics of the belled cases and am gong to try a very light crimp to see if this will fix the problem. Here are a couple examples on how some brass seems to drop in fine but others are a bit more troublesome. Thanks for all the halp everyone.
I figured out what the hell was going on thanks to the taper crimp idea, I gave the cases that wouldn't seat fully a slight taper crimp and now they seat as far as a primed but unloaded case, I have Lyman's 49th edition and it gave a very vague reference on how the taper crimp is to be adjusted, no math, no numbers so I just gave a slight enough crimp to allow the cases to seat. I am going to fire them now to make sure everything works fine before I load the bullets I have left and the 115 gr. I have here.
Thanks
Floyd
What are you loading on? a 550b is my guess.
The dillon instructions are good, but dont really go into any detail on how to setup dies. I watched a 5 or 6 part video on youtube that a guy went into great detail on the entire setup of the machine as well as how to adjust the dies.
All you want on the taper crimp die is to take out the belling and MAYBE slightly more. When I pull rounds apart when setting up a new die I am looking for a VERY slight ring around the bullet where the rim of the case was. You're not looking to do a heavy roll crimp like some ammo has. This has to be done in 1/4 turn increments to the die, run a dummy(no primer or powder) round through, mic it, case gauge(or drop it in the chamber) it, and pull it apart and check for the slight ring. When you mic a round you can use a factory round to get your measurement you are looking for. Takes a bit of time, but this is one die that you should NEVER(I never have) to adjust.
Yes I'm using a 550b, I just fired off 16 rounds and all functioned flawlessly, I will look for the youtube videos for taper die setup.
davestarbuck
07-04-11, 10:26
I've seen a lot of 9mm that looks like yours. Normally it's no probem, but every once in a while one won't chamber.
I've loaded well over 20,000 rounds on my 550b so far.
I use a Lee Factory Crimp die as my last step, I think of it as a case gauge more than a crimp die. If it fits it will work in my guns. Since I started using it over a year ago my reloads have been 100% reliable in terms of chambering.
FTW
-dave
Winter, I don't see anything wrong with your loads IF they chamber correctly. For what it's worth, I always use the Lee Factory Crimp Die on all my auto loader rounds. Extra insurance and I've never found a reason not to use it.
Skip
Bulge is normal and won't affect chambering unless the wall thickness of the brass is too much.
Roll crimping for 9mm should be avoided as the 9mm headspaces on the case mouth. A roll crimp can allow the case to seat too deep and give erratic ignition and poor accuracy. It could even lead to mis-fires. A taper crimp is what should be used. This also means case length is critical.
Bell case mouths as little as practical. Belling works the brass and will lead to splitting
I've seen a lot of 9mm that looks like yours. Normally it's no probem, but every once in a while one won't chamber.
I've loaded well over 20,000 rounds on my 550b so far.
I use a Lee Factory Crimp die as my last step, I think of it as a case gauge more than a crimp die. If it fits it will work in my guns. Since I started using it over a year ago my reloads have been 100% reliable in terms of chambering.
FTW
-dave
Same here...have always used a Lee FCD and never had a problem.
platoonDaddy
07-04-11, 15:30
Yes I'm using a 550b, I just fired off 16 rounds and all functioned flawlessly, I will look for the youtube videos for taper die setup.
dillon 550b toolhead setup 1/4 PorterhouseV
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V48xgW80A0&feature=related
How to reload with a Dillon RL 550B Part 1/5 jamz8844
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRZrbv_8kx4
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