New optic for bolt gun, is a 2-10 variable enough magnification for most applications

[abanks8245]

Will be purchasing an Remington 700 sps in 308 to jump into bolt actions rifles, now the quest for 1000 yard shot is ramped on internet and has developed into benchmark and 1000 yards is not what my skill set is capable off nor suitable ranges available. The 2-10 vortex pst is the scope i have in route, mind you this is all my intro bolt gun build , and most of the variables i have handled for spr, or precision/predator ar builds are in that 1-4 or 3-10 range, i thought 2-10 would give me a pretty decent range from 50 to maybe 1000 eventually , just looking to get more trigger time, since that what would make me better at distance anyway and upgrade( if necessary) later. Just wondering from those with more rounds at long range than me. Any info would be appreciated

[BaileyMoto]

Plenty of people have used 10x at 1000 yards and plenty still do. Many, however, prefer a bit more.

Here is 10x at 1000 yards:

http://www.jonaadland.com/Hunting/IOR/PICT0087.jpg

12x at 1000 yards:

http://www.jonaadland.com/Hunting/SchmidtandBender/3-12X50PMII/PICT0116.jpg

15x at 1000 yards:

http://www.jonaadland.com/Hunting/Premier/3-15X50/PICT0077.JPG

(pics stolen from SH post)

[CC556]

I shot a team match once where one guy ran a bolt gun out to 1300 yards and the other guy (me) ran a carbine out to 500 yards. We had to spot for each other. My optic on my carbine was a 3-9 scope and I had no trouble making out the targets at 1300 yards to spot, and I could even see the bullet splash at that distance.

Now, I wouldn't say that 10x is ideal for long range applications, but it certainly is workable.

[abanks8245]

well aware the military has used fixed 10x for a while till recently, if i remember correctly, but i understand magnification is one of those things you can always dial a high magnification scope down but cant turn a lower magnification up only to a certain limit. its one of those things to have more magnification than necessary is not to much of a bad thing 3x13 or 5x22 are my limits for this type of rifle and the type of shooting i will be doing, thanks for the help you all so far

[ICANHITHIMMAN]

The optic you have chosen is fine as far as power is concerned.

What you should have asked yourself from the start is does the optic I'm selecting, provide me with enough internal elevation to get me to or past my intended shooting range? If the awnser to that is yes you can learn to work with the latter, be it to much or to little for you intended application.

I have no experience with Vortex optics so I could not even guess to its internal adjustment range. You may have plenty of adjustment according to the scopes specs but if it dosent track 100% your obviously not going to get what it was designed to provide. We hear good feedback about Vortex so stick by your decsion and please provide us with the detail after you get it shooting.

[orkan]

I'm more apt to go with 4-16 power stuff. 4x is almost perfect for anything down to 25yds even, and 16x is a whole lot better than 10x when shooting at range.

It just seems that the low powers below 4x never get used. Most of my ffp stuff never goes below 6x.

[Gutshot John]

The biggest drawback to using a low power FFP scope (2-3x) is that the reticle, particularly mil-dots are pretty worthless since the reticle is so small.

Of course the mil-dot is equally unusable with an SFP at low power since it is typically functional only at the highest magnification so to make use of the mil-dots you'd have to set it to full 10x irrespective of range. You can quarter the target and use holds, but you won't be using your mil-dots to range the target or dial in corrections.

Given your stated needs, if I were in your shoes, I'd consider a nice fixed 10x and with the money you save on not having to get an FFP, I'd supplement that choice with an off-set micro RDS for short ranges (<100yards). A fixed 10x is plenty fast at ranges beyond 100 yards and the micro-RDS will be significantly faster than a 3x, 4x, 5x inside of that.

If you're getting an FFP scope 4-5x is the lowest magnification I would consider and indeed with practice you can be fairly quick using them at close range.

[Stormrider]

I have a 2.5x10 Nightforce that lives (mostly) on my 6.8 AR. I've had no problem shooting it at up to 500y. Longest range I have available right now is 600 but I haven't tried out that far, yet.
If I want to shoot up close and low power I just turn the magnification all the way down and turn the illumination all the way up. Makes a great quick pointing sight.

[maximus83]

Given your stated needs, if I were in your shoes, I'd consider a nice fixed 10x and with the money you save on not having to get an FFP, I'd supplement that choice with an off-set micro RDS for short ranges (<100yards). A fixed 10x is plenty fast at ranges beyond 100 yards and the micro-RDS will be significantly faster than a 3x, 4x, 5x inside of that.


GJ, I hear you on the 10x and on the limits of FFP's. A question on the off-set micro RDS: Are you saying the OP would mount this RDS on his Rem 700 bolt gun?

[Gutshot John]

GJ, I hear you on the 10x and on the limits of FFP's. A question on the off-set micro RDS: Are you saying the OP would mount this RDS on his Rem 700 bolt gun?

Allow me to rephrase since I did so poorly.

Not "would" so much as "could" depending on the caliber as well as rail and rings. I'm not even saying he should, simply saying that it might be an option if he was looking at taking close up shots and the 10x was too much for him.

I've seen pictures of something similar though I've not tried it on my own guns. Personally I've got no problem just using a fixed 10x even inside of 100 yards, it just takes a little bit of practice. It only really becomes a problem at extremely close distances and then you can point shoot.

I like fixed 10x generally, people poo-poo them saying 'you absolutely must have variable power' but fail to take into account that unless you're buying an FFP, your variable power ranging reticle is useless except at maximum magnification, leaving you with a (wait for it) fixed power scope. Generally they're simple, durable and you get a lot more scope for your money.

[broylz]

i started with a sps-varmint and a super sniper 10x. it was a good combo but i felt it was a bit tight at 100 yards and wished for some variable powered scope. i ended up selling that rifle awhile ago and have been using a 1-4x on my AR but have recently purchased a R700 SPS Tactical AAC-SD rifle. i too am looking into the 2.5-10x PST but i also realize my dream of shooting 1K is a ways off. the 2-10x is plenty for my intended purposes, 75% of which will be inside 400 yards.

[Eurodriver]

Just got a Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50 FFP yesterday, and after having strictly nothing but 10x scopes for years I can say I won't be going back to them. The advantage 24x has for me isn't so much shooting as I feel it magnifies the tremors and heartbeat too much, 18x is plenty fine. Its the observation and detail that you can see at 24x if you need it that simply isn't there with a fixed 10x optic.

[orkan]

I feel it magnifies the tremors and heartbeat too much

Do you think that those movements disappear because your ability to see them has?

Train and refine your shooting form until your reticle is dead steady on your POA, and you'll find your accuracy will increase. Not by accident due to you not fighting your heartbeat due to your lack of ability to see it, but on purpose due to you refining your NPA to the point where it doesn't happen at all.

I will touch on the claimed uselessness of FFP optics at lower powers as the problem solves itself under actual use. There are far too many discussions about this from an academic standpoint that are detached from reality in actual use. I no longer have a sfp optic on any rifle. With modern ffp offerings, there is absolutely no need. At low power, they all function as a duplex at the very least, with those models having better reticles still remaining usable even at the lowest setting. Case in point, my 2.5-10 IOR that resides on my primary coyote rifle. It spends most of its time on 4-6x, yet when the light goes dim, down to 2.5x it goes and I switch on the illumination. You don't need the reticle to hold over at lower powers with ffp any more than you do with sfp. If you are on low power, then it stands to reason that you are shooting at close distance. At least with ffp, you can quickly jerk the power ring to a higher setting and fire if you had to, knowing that your reticle subtends correctly no matter what power setting you land on. The same cannot be said of sfp.

Talking about ffp optics in general terms works no better than sfp optics, or anything else. There are too many options from too many different manufacturers to even try. Making the blanket statement that FFP will somehow not work when sfp will is inaccurate at best and ignorant at worst. Not saying anyone here is ignorant, simply that making the above statement is based on ignorance of the facts and lacks real world experience.

To sum it up. If you are going to have a variable power optic, then have a reticle in the ffp that matches your turrets. If you are going to have a fixed power optic, then have the reticle calibrated to subtend correctly on that power.

[Merc8541]

It will work for all intended purposes, but behind the glass you might wish you had more X at the longer ranges. 600 and beyond. Depends on what your target is too.