View Full Version : "New" Superlube?
Just ran across this "Slipstream" product and wondered who had tried it/what the thoughts were/how well it controlled wear, etc.
http://crusaderweaponry.com/shop.php?id=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_Lv2GAuVOM
Just ran across this "Slipstream" product and wondered who had tried it/what the thoughts were/how well it controlled wear, etc.
http://crusaderweaponry.com/shop.php?id=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_Lv2GAuVOM
how is this different than any other lube, and how is it that no other scientists chanced upon this "miracle" lube?
I see no validation, just claims...
I'm all for trying new lubes but there is no such thing as "the" lube.
I would like to see some verifiable independent tests to support any claims.
Most all are pretty much the same but I admit I have my preferences too.
how is this different than any other lube, and how is it that no other scientists chanced upon this "miracle" lube?
I see no validation, just claims...
I am not claiming it is, I am looking for input from those more familiar with it. However, there is always room for progress. Are you still using dial-up? Does your computer monitor weigh 20#?
See what I mean? Just in the last few years we have improved how we even post on this forum. It is not outlandish to think better lubricant formulas will also surface, along with better firearms, etc. etc.
Price seems cheap enough, buy it and try it out. Then let me know;)
i went to the site, read some of the info, and saw that it contained ''nano-lubes''. as much fun as we've had with the ''nano-man'',, i couldn't resist trying some. as a rule, i use the TW25 grease, and have had excellent results from it, so this grease should be GTG. won't hurt a thing to have a little extra lube at any rate.
Littlelebowski
07-06-11, 11:51
I've tried it. I now use WeaponShield. I am skeptical of all "nano" claims.
I would be more fearful of what those "nano" things do to your body. If they are truly "Nano" then they are small enough for your body to absorb in ways that we are only just understanding now. Research a little about Nano sunscreen issues. I'll take standard lube over some questionable toxicity nano stuff any day.
Littlelebowski
07-06-11, 12:00
I'd have to see verification before believing any "nano" claims.
My buddy likes trying all the new super lubes so I'll pass that link on to him to see what he thinks. I see no mention of the size/amount of lube one receives if they order. Would suck to pay $25 for a 2oz bottle of the stuff.
As the cost keeps going up on "new lubes" I just find it hard to switch over from my current motor oil which works great at $2.50/qt. It really cuts down on wear, and doesn't burn off. Works well when dirty too as it allows carbon to flow out rather than stick. Oh, did I mention it cost me $2.50/qt :D
GermanSynergy
07-06-11, 14:07
FWIW I'm using Frog Lube CLP in my AR's and it works as advertised. I'm not known for low round count practice sessions or personal charm either. :cool:
Gunn-Fighter
07-06-11, 18:55
Got some on the way, Ill post how its
* * *
As the cost keeps going up on "new lubes" I just find it hard to switch over from my current motor oil which works great at $2.50/qt. It really cuts down on wear, and doesn't burn off. Works well when dirty too as it allows carbon to flow out rather than stick. Oh, did I mention it cost me $2.50/qt :D
I've been leaning this way for lube as well. I'd have to think that Exxon/Mobil and other major oil companies have more money to throw at R&D than Mom and Pop Snake Oil.
If any earth-shattering discoveries regarding oil/lubricants emerges, I'd bet it comes from a Exxon-type company, not some random, internet wonder-juice slinger.
I've been leaning this way for lube as well. I'd have to think that Exxon/Mobil and other major oil companies have more money to throw at R&D than Mom and Pop Snake Oil.
If any earth-shattering discoveries regarding oil/lubricants emerges, I'd bet it comes from a Exxon-type company, not some random, internet wonder-juice slinger.
Reading the information about Slipstream, you will note that they use products developed by the aerospace and automotive industry to formulate it.
Motor oil by itself is made for motors. Totally different materials/movements/clearances.
Reading the information about Slipstream, you will note that they use products developed by the aerospace and automotive industry to formulate it.
Motor oil by itself is made for motors. Totally different materials/movements/clearances.
Lol, wut?
A motor and a gun both have: (a) metal on metal contact/friction; and (b) high temperatures/combustion.
Sorry, but when someone has to throw around buzzwords like "nano," I'm skeptical. The fact that they "looked at" heavy industry and aerospace, well, that tells me little. If they have a patent, I might be willing to give it a try.
Otherwise, caveat emptor rules the day.
Lol, wut?
A motor and a gun both have: (a) metal on metal contact/friction; and (b) high temperatures/combustion.
Sorry, but when someone has to throw around buzzwords like "nano," I'm skeptical. The fact that they "looked at" heavy industry and aerospace, well, that tells me little. If they have a patent, I might be willing to give it a try.
Otherwise, caveat emptor rules the day.
Even different engines require oil.
large cam, solid lifters = a different oil necessary than say, a new corvette.
Even different engines require oil.
large cam, solid lifters = a different oil necessary than say, a new corvette.
What you are saying is that a Hi-point is the same as a Colt because they both are made of metal and fire .45 ACP.
You're attempting to misstate my point. And a Hi-point and a Colt will still have the same lubrication needs.
Look, there is no quantifiable evidence to support this so-called "Slipstream" wonderlube. If they can prove up, then great. Until then, it's questionable at best.
You're attempting to misstate my point. And a Hi-point and a Colt will still have the same lubrication needs.
Look, there is no quantifiable evidence to support this so-called "Slipstream" wonderlube. If they can prove up, then great. Until then, it's questionable at best.
Which is why I am looking for experience with it here. I never said I was selling the stuff. I don't even own a sample at this time.
Even different engines require oil.
large cam, solid lifters = a different oil necessary than say, a new corvette.
Radical cams and solid lifters benefit from more zinc dialkyldithiophosphate (ZDDP).
The difference between additives like ZDDP and the latest "miracle", "all natural" or "nano" product is that we already know ZDDP's properties. You can run an oil analysis or ask the manufacturer and find out exactly what's in your oil, and you can make informed decisions based on cold hard facts.
Fairy tales and anecdotes are poor substitutes for science.
Thomas M-4
07-07-11, 01:06
Reading the information about Slipstream, you will note that they use products developed by the aerospace and automotive industry to formulate it.Turbine oil doesn't cost has much has that stuff per ounce also the AR-15 was not designed to use some space age oil that wasn't even invited 40 yrs ago
Motor oil by itself is made for motors. Totally different materials/movements/clearances.
Ok please tell me this is a brain fart,
materials hmm lets think, both are made from aluminum and steel [check], Movement both have reciprocating movement double[check] , both have rotating parts triple [check]. The tolerances are different but engines have a wide range of operating tolerances also
Now who do think spends more money into RD, the gun oil industry which might be several million dollars total sales or let say the automotive industry that sells billion annually? I cant help but think that a race team that might spend $10-20K on a engine not to mention that $3-6K of that might be dedicated to just the oiling system alone wouldn't use the best oil that they can find.
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Now who do think spends more money into RD, the gun oil industry which might be several million dollars total sales or let say the automotive industry that sells billion annually? I cant help but think that a race team that might spend $10-20K on a engine not to mention that $3-6K of that might be dedicated to just the oiling system alone wouldn't use the best oil that they can find.
Thank god im not a proponent of this stuff. Anyway,
Motors contain lead (bearings) iron (rings) bronze (valve guides), and the main thing is that these materials are NOT supposed to touch each other. They are supposed to ride on a film of oil. With a firearm, contact is made. You need a lot more high pressure additives than you do in an engine unless it is a solid-lifter/flat tappet setup.
What you are suggesting is that the evolution of lubrication has ceased.
It has not.
Apparently noone has tried the stuff I linked except one poster and they said their results were so-so. Everyone else just seems to think there is nothing new under the sun.
Further, you are putting points in Slipstream's bucket. Aerospace and automotive is where they got their addpack from. Not the "gun-industry". Of course, the gun industry piggy-backs on aerospace/automotive. My point is that gear oil is probably a better addpack than most low ZDDP motor-oils in use today. I did not say the automotive industry was not a place to look. I simply think that motor oil is a poor idea if you are seeking THE BEST. Will it work? Heck yea. Is it optimal? No.
*The engine in my car retails for about $15K. It's not a race engine by any stretch. A "race engine" (especially one going in a car that has "a team" costs a lot more than $10-20K.
Thomas M-4
07-07-11, 02:25
Thank god im not a proponent of this stuff. Anyway,
Motors contain lead (bearings) iron (rings) bronze (valve guides), and the main thing is that these materials are NOT supposed to touch each other. They are supposed to ride on a film of oil. With a firearm, contact is made. You need a lot more high pressure additives than you do in an engine unless it is a solid-lifter/flat tappet setup.
All rings are not Iron some heavy industrial engine use hard chrome rings and hard chrome bores, not all valve guides are made of bronze some are just knurled soft steel liners along with others variations. If you are talking about gear oil the gear mesh has a larger contact area than what you would see in a firearm same holds true on the transmission BTW my memory tells me that straight 30wt motor oil is recommended for many manual transmissions also automatic trans will have a special friction additive added for the wet clutches.
What you are suggesting is that the evolution of lubrication has ceased.
No where did I say that? I merely pointed out has you just posted the firearms oil industry is piggy backed off a big industry which do you think will come up with the best-est wonder lube first??
It has not.
Apparently noone has tried the stuff I linked except one poster and they said their results were so-so. Everyone else just seems to think there is nothing new under the sun.
Further, you are putting points in Slipstream's bucket. Aerospace and automotive is where they got their addpack from. Not the "gun-industry". Of course, the gun industry piggy-backs on aerospace/automotive. My point is that gear oil is probably a better addpack than most low ZDDP motor-oils in use today. I did not say the automotive industry was not a place to look. I simply think that motor oil is a poor idea if you are seeking THE BEST. Will it work? Heck yea. Is it optimal? No.
*The engine in my car retails for about $15K. It's not a race engine by any stretch. A "race engine" (especially one going in a car that has "a team" costs a lot more than $10-20K.15K A LSX 454 MSRP under 12K http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/EngineShowcase/index.jsp?engId=LSX454&engine=LSX454&sku=19244611&engCat=lsx kudos if you have more than 15K wrapped up in you engine. I was merely pointing to a normal figure. Now if you want to talk about 80's area 100lb boost F1 engines that cost 50K +++ and burn $100 a gallon fuel burning toluene mix that was call witches brew than we can;)
Think about the [WIDE range] that regular motor oil is used in not just hot rods you have industrial engines, small engines, & transmissions.
Think about the [WIDE range] that regular motor oil is used in not just hot rods you have industrial engines, small engines, & transmissions.
There are also a wide range of motor oils. For example, Nissan spec's a certain oil for their VQ engines to cut down on valve-train noise. Ford spec's a certain oil for their GT500 to support a power-adder. Recently, certain vehicles call for oils certified as Dexos1.
For every engine you outlined, there is an appropriate lubricant for it, and it is constantly evolving.
*My engine is a 100% stock LS7. The engine's that GM runs in LeMans cost well over $12K. Yes, you can build an LSX on a budget and take it down the strip a good bit, but when someone says "Racing engine", I think of the stuff Katech does for GM, etc.
You are right about the materials on some engines, I just know what is in my engine and in the engines of the cars I have had, so that is what I cited.
Thomas M-4
07-07-11, 02:51
There are also a wide range of motor oils. For example, Nissan spec's a certain oil for their VQ engines to cut down on valve-train noise. Ford spec's a certain oil for their GT500 to support a power-adder. Recently, certain vehicles call for oils certified as Dexos1.
For every engine you outlined, there is an appropriate lubricant for it, and it is constantly evolving.
Those are all just additive packages added to standard oil for specific circumstances. You can change mercon 3 to mercron 4 spec by just adding a additive package. [Do I like it NO.. but none the less it is just a additive package to meet a certain spec].
Come on man a automatic rifle is no were near the complexity of say a automatic transmission for that matter even a manual transmission.
Those are all just additive packages added to standard oil for specific circumstances. You can change mercon 3 to mercron 4 spec by just adding a additive package. [Do I like it NO.. but none the less it is just a additive package to meet a certain spec].
Come on man a automatic rifle is no were near the complexity of say a automatic transmission for that matter even a manual transmission.
I agree, and as Pat Rogers has shown us, Astroglide will keep an M4 running. Just not so well, though. If you're going to buy something, why not buy the best? If you're going to determine "best", you need to give all players a fair shake to make the decision.
Thomas M-4
07-07-11, 03:35
I agree, and as Pat Rogers has shown us, Astroglide will keep an M4 running. Just not so well, though. If you're going to buy something, why not buy the best? If you're going to determine "best", you need to give all players a fair shake to make the decision.
Straight motor oil runs way better than not so well. What is your criteria of the best I still haven't seen a dyno for a rifle??Is the cost worth the improvement if there is any improvement with all of the variables were are trying to cover??
This is what opens up all these different lubes. And I just cant believe the extra price they are asking even comes near the performance of plain high quality motor oil at this point.
Straight motor oil runs way better than not so well. What is your criteria of the best I still haven't seen a dyno for a rifle??Is the cost worth the improvement if there is any improvement with all of the variables were are trying to cover??
This is what opens up all these different lubes. And I just cant believe the extra price they are asking even comes near the performance of plain high quality motor oil at this point.
Well, a good example is that my Benelli m4 runs a lot better with TW25B than with CLP. The bolt racks much smoother/easier, and it cycles lower powered loads, and the wear on the rails is less so.
True, there is no dyno for a rifle, but a 4-ball wear test is close. I have not seen one for this new Slipstream stuff, though.
Thomas M-4
07-07-11, 12:43
Well, a good example is that my Benelli m4 runs a lot better with TW25B than with CLP. The bolt racks much smoother/easier, and it cycles lower powered loads, and the wear on the rails is less so.Very true in my experience CLP is not the greatest friction reducer I do find it works great on sticky pad locks :D
True, there is no dyno for a rifle, but a 4-ball wear test is close. I have not seen one for this new Slipstream stuff, though.
Yea there is the friction test but there is more I would consider than just friction. How well does it stand up to water or worse yet sweat , some of these gun oils water will cut right into the oil.
Yea there is the friction test but there is more I would consider than just friction. How well does it stand up to water or worse yet sweat , some of these gun oils water will cut right into the oil.
I have found that CLP is the best rust preventative out there that I have tested that is also a lubricant.
Personally, I will stick with TW-25B and CLP(for rust prevention).
They play nice together and it works well on my M4S90's.
I have received a few PM's about Slipstream due to my thread with the kind of info I wanted--personal experience.
Like I said, I am not championing the stuff, but I approached it with an open mind.
So I watched some of the You Tube videos for Crusader Slipstream lube. MadOgre has a video where he describes a dry, silvery gray lube that bonds to surface of the bolt. Sounds a little bit like moly, eh?
Anyway, I'm more inclined to trust lube from manufacturer that will tell you what's in it. Spectactular claims and unscientific bullshit testimonials are a very good way to make me not like your product.
So I watched some of the You Tube videos for Crusader Slipstream lube. MadOgre has a video where he describes a dry, silvery gray lube that bonds to surface of the bolt. Sounds a little bit like moly, eh?
Anyway, I'm more inclined to trust lube from manufacturer that will tell you what's in it. Spectactular claims and unscientific bullshit testimonials are a very good way to make me not like your product.
What manufacturer do you know that tells you whats in their lube?
Littlelebowski
07-07-11, 16:53
What manufacturer do you know that tells you whats in their lube?
George Fennell. WeaponShield. George is an actual tribologist.
Littlelebowski
07-07-11, 16:54
What manufacturer do you know that tells you whats in their lube?
http://weaponshield.com/technical.htm
http://weaponshield.com/msds.htm
What manufacturer do you know that tells you whats in their lube?
What commercial lube do you know that lacks a materials safety data sheet (MSDS) ?
Littlelebowski
07-07-11, 16:59
What commercial lube do you know that lacks a materials safety data sheet (MSDS) ?
SlipStream?
GermanSynergy
07-07-11, 18:52
This may sound trite and petty, but given the...... less than professional comments I saw on MadOgre's YouTube page, as well as the immature back and forth banter, I am going to pass on testing this lube.
christcorp
07-07-11, 19:05
Yeah.... Another Lube thread. :suicide2:
I'll stick with my good old molybdenum disulfide grease, which many gun pros, and the military recommends, in my $4.97 for a LIFETIME SUPPLY. That takes care of all my Metal-On-Metal parts. Slides, pistons, outer barrel on semi-auto pistols, bolts, carriers, etc... And I'll continue with my winchester CLP, rem-oil, or Mobile 1 synthetic (Depending on the weapon), for my moving non-metal on metal parts like triggers, springs, hammers, etc.... Plus, it works great on squeaky hinges and door locks.
And FWIW: I doubt there's as much "Gun Lube R&D" going on as some would like to believe. Most are merely renaming and repackaging of existing lubricants. If you look up Molybdenum disulfide, you'll find that it's a great lubricant, but it's suspended differently depending on the application. Some is in grease, some oil, some dry film, etc... And it's in more products than you know what to do with.
But, because paying $15 for a 4oz tube of lube can be rationalized by some people, because they spent hundreds on the weapon, we'll always have these debates. And for the average person who pretty much cleans their weapon after each outing, or within around 500 rounds, just about any of the lubricants are going to make your weapon operate just fine, and last longer than you will.
Yeah.... Another Lube thread. :suicide2:
I'll stick with my good old molybdenum disulfide grease, which many gun pros, and the military recommends, in my $4.97 for a LIFETIME SUPPLY. That takes care of all my Metal-On-Metal parts. Slides, pistons, outer barrel on semi-auto pistols, bolts, carriers, etc... And I'll continue with my winchester CLP, rem-oil, or Mobile 1 synthetic (Depending on the weapon), for my moving non-metal on metal parts like triggers, springs, hammers, etc.... Plus, it works great on squeaky hinges and door locks.
And FWIW: I doubt there's as much "Gun Lube R&D" going on as some would like to believe. Most are merely renaming and repackaging of existing lubricants. If you look up Molybdenum disulfide, you'll find that it's a great lubricant, but it's suspended differently depending on the application. Some is in grease, some oil, some dry film, etc... And it's in more products than you know what to do with.
But, because paying $15 for a 4oz tube of lube can be rationalized by some people, because they spent hundreds on the weapon, we'll always have these debates. And for the average person who pretty much cleans their weapon after each outing, or within around 500 rounds, just about any of the lubricants are going to make your weapon operate just fine, and last longer than you will.
I like the way you think.
My Castrol Syntec 10W30 bottle is looking at me funny...
Quiet-Matt
07-07-11, 20:40
Yeah.... Another Lube thread. :suicide2:
I'll stick with my good old molybdenum disulfide grease, which many gun pros, and the military recommends, in my $4.97 for a LIFETIME SUPPLY. That takes care of all my Metal-On-Metal parts. Slides, pistons, outer barrel on semi-auto pistols, bolts, carriers, etc... And I'll continue with my winchester CLP, rem-oil, or Mobile 1 synthetic (Depending on the weapon), for my moving non-metal on metal parts like triggers, springs, hammers, etc.... Plus, it works great on squeaky hinges and door locks.
And FWIW: I doubt there's as much "Gun Lube R&D" going on as some would like to believe. Most are merely renaming and repackaging of existing lubricants. If you look up Molybdenum disulfide, you'll find that it's a great lubricant, but it's suspended differently depending on the application. Some is in grease, some oil, some dry film, etc... And it's in more products than you know what to do with.
But, because paying $15 for a 4oz tube of lube can be rationalized by some people, because they spent hundreds on the weapon, we'll always have these debates. And for the average person who pretty much cleans their weapon after each outing, or within around 500 rounds, just about any of the lubricants are going to make your weapon operate just fine, and last longer than you will.
You took the words right out of my mouth. I have a grease gun size tube and I doubt that I'll ever use it all. Best $4 I've spent.
Littlelebowski
07-08-11, 09:01
This may sound trite and petty, but given the...... less than professional comments I saw on MadOgre's YouTube page, as well as the immature back and forth banter, I am going to pass on testing this lube.
I agree, actually.
eternal24k
08-26-11, 07:02
I bought some to try out, and im already regretting it.
Its not disappointing per say, but the containers are very small (my fault for not confirming size before purchasing on Amazon), they make no claims of rust prevention (still have to use a CLP on areas with no friction), and the grease seems to thin over time, I applied a lot on my Sig rails and most seems to be gone. I am sure it will work great, but I have been using a lot of free lubes, and this appears to be machinegunners lube at higher concentrates (moly particles??) and dirty to work with.
We will see as I get some more time with it, but I generally like my grease to stay thick.
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