View Full Version : Cheaper rail setups
contax_shooter
07-06-11, 08:48
Are there any benefits to using rail systems that cost upwards of $150 compared to ones that can be found on Amazon for less than $60?
From what I can see, rails are just an accessory that has very little pros/cons besides material (majority is made with some sort of aircraft aluminum) and maybe QC capabilities regarding burrs/cosmetics.
I am interested in purchasing this rail + grip combo for a low price with the intent of slowly building an off-the-rack AR to the way I want.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003JCYS4A/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?ie=UTF8&m=A1KSNF4J3UCP19
Are there any benefits to using rail systems that cost upwards of $150 compared to ones that can be found on Amazon for less than $60?
From what I can see, rails are just an accessory that has very little pros/cons besides material (majority is made with some sort of aircraft aluminum) and maybe QC capabilities regarding burrs/cosmetics.
I am interested in purchasing this rail + grip combo for a low price with the intent of slowly building an off-the-rack AR to the way I want.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003JCYS4A/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?ie=UTF8&m=A1KSNF4J3UCP19
First, don't buy stuff made in China.
Second, if you just want to run a VG, then check out the Mapul MOE HG's and their MVG and RVG grips. Very nice and easy to configure.
C4
Very big differences between the cheap stuff and the top of the line.
If you are just wanting a rail to mount a light or grip, or both, check out Magpul's MOE hand guard as it can fill both of these roles. Or, if you really want a quadrail for cheap check out KAC RAS's or RIS's.
For a free floating quadrail I'd stick with Daniel Defense, Larue, Centurion, Troy, and other proven names.
shaneinhisroom
07-06-11, 09:03
Hold on, I think my popcorn's ready...:lol:
+1 on the Magpul MOE. Minimal cost and no second guessing if you bought quality.
Well, it depends...
If you are going into a range, taking out your gun and shooting a few rounds every once in awhile... then probably any old thing will do.
But then, i'd have to ask why even bother with a railed handguard? You can get something real cheap and awesome like a MOE handguard, put a light on it and be good.
Or are you actually going to be using your gun in classes, running it fairly hard, keeping it for defense, etc?
Many people who get good quality handguards get something that will freefloat for potentially more accuracy.
The quality of the metal is a big deal as are things like the mounting system, whether or not the rails are in spec, etc...
So, yes, there is generally a big difference between chinese airsoft knockoffs and quality parts. That said, there is a wide range of prices in the 'good rail' category... Even something like a MI or YHM will at least be better than the overseas specials.
contax_shooter
07-06-11, 09:14
I have a Stag upper with the fixed front sight so I don't think any free float rails will work.
This will mainly be my first build with the intention of learning the AR system, shooting it often and possibly attending a few AR courses offered at the local range.
As of right now, I will not equip the rail with any lights/lasers/etc other than just the vertical grip. I do want the ability to add those things in the future.
Another option would be the Midwest Ind. single rail that can mount to either the top or bottom of stock hand guards plus a Magpul RVG for a sub $40 combo.
I have a Stag upper with the fixed front sight so I don't think any free float rails will work.
Why not?
This will mainly be my first build with the intention of learning the AR system, shooting it often and possibly attending a few AR courses offered at the local range.
The Magpul MOE is a good choice for you then (as you do not even know what you like).
Another option would be the Midwest Ind. single rail that can mount to either the top or bottom of stock hand guards plus a Magpul RVG for a sub $40 combo.
You can go this route. Magpul also makes Polymer rails for their HG's.
C4
I would say go with the Magpul MOE handguard as well. It allows the use of a grip and has the ability to mount lights and such. It also feels really nice in the hand and is lightweight and inexpensive. I would start simple and get to apoint where you can say what you will need/like and then go from there.
I have a Stag upper with the fixed front sight so I don't think any free float rails will work.
Not only will they work but they also make these style rails though they are not "cheap".
https://danieldefense.com/rail-systems/omega-x-railtm-12-0-fsp-carbine.html
I just installed 2.
contax_shooter
07-06-11, 09:37
For those that have purchased the Magpul RVG grip..
It includes the optional small rail that is adaptable to most stock hand guards?
If so, I will opt out of any sort of aftermarket rails/guards and just use the vertical fore grip until I feel the need for additional mounts.
For those that have purchased the Magpul RVG grip..
It includes the optional small rail that is adaptable to most stock hand guards?
If so, I will opt out of any sort of aftermarket rails/guards and just use the vertical fore grip until I feel the need for additional mounts.
It comes with a little piece of universal rail. I agree with the others saying to start out simple and see what you like.
I have a Stag upper with the fixed front sight so I don't think any free float rails will work.
This will mainly be my first build with the intention of learning the AR system, shooting it often and possibly attending a few AR courses offered at the local range.
As of right now, I will not equip the rail with any lights/lasers/etc other than just the vertical grip. I do want the ability to add those things in the future.
Another option would be the Midwest Ind. single rail that can mount to either the top or bottom of stock hand guards plus a Magpul RVG for a sub $40 combo.
Based on your answers, just get the MOE handguard and use the gun for awhile.
Don't dress it up with a bunch of stuff until you know if you even want it. I personally strongly dislike vert grips.
That all said, it's your gun, do whatever you want.
The only time I'd say cheap is okay is if you had a .22lr for training that you wanted to mock up to be close to what you already have in .223. Of course, it's hard to beat the MOE handguards.
Is there a handguard on the gun now? What is wrong with what you have? how do you know?
What Grant said earlier:
-Don't buy cheap chinese shit
-Get the MOE handguard (you can add rail sections later for very little cost). Especially if you're not sure what you want, or have a strict budget.
I started with buying lesser quality "just as good" acessories based on price a little before I got here, and in the end it will most likely accomplish nothing but frustrate you when it doesn't work as it should, or end up costing you more money to fix/replace that could have been spent once on a quality product.
Or if you really have to have a full rail system, this might be a decent hybrid option: http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Daniel-Defense-Omega-Rail-Carbine-Free-Float-p/dd%2010001.htm
I have a Stag upper with the fixed front sight so I don't think any free float rails will work.
My first AR-15 was Stag with fixed front sight. And I did not want to do any gunsmithing and I wanted free float rails. And I found great one. check Vltor CASV series (I used CASV-EL). All you have to do is remove original handguard, put CASV in place, tighten 2 screws :D
My first AR-15 was Stag with fixed front sight. And I did not want to do any gunsmithing and I wanted free float rails. And I found great one. check Vltor CASV series (I used CASV-EL). All you have to do is remove original handguard, put CASV in place, tighten 2 screws :D
This is what I did except my stag had the railed gas block that just barely fit under the CASV-M. Later, I swapped the Stag for a Colt 6920, though I had to shave the FSB.
First, don't buy stuff made in China.
Second, if you just want to run a VG, then check out the Mapul MOE HG's and their MVG and RVG grips. Very nice and easy to configure.
C4
I don't think UTG is made in China anymore. Their factory and headquarters aren't far from our shop and right around the corner from where we buy Kydex. I've never been there - and would also pass on their rails (and all gear) - but I have to respect them for giving Michiganders jobs.
I'm with Rob and Grant. Shoot your OEM plastics or start with an MOE. You can always add a rail section to either. Give it some time and you'll start to know exactly what direction you want to go with the carbine after shooting it more and more.
MOUNT-N-SLOT
07-07-11, 09:22
The MOE is a great platform to add accessories to. Impact Weapons Components makes a ton of mounts for lights, slings, etc for the MOE, Made in Colorado by American's, at very reasonable cost.
Here's a link: http://www.impactweaponscomponents.com/iwc/product/view/by_handguard_type/magpul-moe-carbine/
http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af110/mount-n-slot/SMC%201%20Light%20Mount-N-Slot/SMC-FrontObliqueView.jpg
The MOE is a great platform to add accessories to. Impact Weapons Components makes a ton of mounts for lights, slings, etc for the MOE, Made in Colorado by American's, at very reasonable cost.
Here's a link: http://www.impactweaponscomponents.com/iwc/product/view/by_handguard_type/magpul-moe-carbine/
http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af110/mount-n-slot/SMC%201%20Light%20Mount-N-Slot/SMC-FrontObliqueView.jpg
And this is why I mentioned the MOE. Quite versitile for what it is and the boys over at Mount-N-Slot make a fantastic product.
I got these KZ M73 Hand Guards from botachtactical.com. I got them on sale but about a month ago but even at regular price they are a good deal. They are rock solid and made in the USA.
http://www.botachtactical.com/kzm73m4pifo.html
http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/botach_2166_400566134
I got these KZ M73 Hand Guards from botachtactical.com. I got them on sale but about a month ago but even at regular price they are a good deal. They are rock solid and made in the USA.
http://www.botachtactical.com/kzm73m4pifo.html
I'm curious about the process that led you to those. I'm very much a "why" guy, so if you wouldn't mind indulging me...
What shortcomings did you find in the stock handguards that you were looking to address? How many rounds did it take you on that system to identify the problem? What was it about the KZ that made you think it was the correct solution? How did it correct the problem? How many rounds did it take you with the KZ installed to determine that the problem was solved?
Also, what other alternatives did you research or try? Was something like the Magpul MOE suggested above not to your liking?
bsmith_shoot
07-07-11, 13:16
After many years of trial and error, this is the kit I have went with. Ive got quite a few rounds downrange with this set-up, and its working out great for me. Might be a great option for you.
http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/uu224/bsmith_shoot/MOEhandguards003.jpg
http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/uu224/bsmith_shoot/MOEhandguards002.jpg
http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/uu224/bsmith_shoot/MOEhandguards001.jpg
http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/uu224/bsmith_shoot/MOEhandguards005.jpg
I'm curious about the process that led you to those. I'm very much a "why" guy, so if you wouldn't mind indulging me...
What shortcomings did you find in the stock handguards that you were looking to address? How many rounds did it take you on that system to identify the problem? What was it about the KZ that made you think it was the correct solution? How did it correct the problem? How many rounds did it take you with the KZ installed to determine that the problem was solved?
Also, what other alternatives did you research or try? Was something like the Magpul MOE suggested above not to your liking?
What shortcomings did you find in the stock handguards that you were looking to address?
I needed a light attached.
How many rounds did it take you on that system to identify the problem?
I have fired thousands of rounds with stock handguards, but that does not apply to this situation. It doesn’t take rounds down range to realize you can’t see in the dark.
What was it about the KZ that made you think it was the correct solution?
Picatinny Rail
How did it correct the problem?
I have a light attached to it.
How many rounds did it take you with the KZ installed to determine that the problem was solved?
One
Also, what other alternatives did you research or try?
Other rail systems
Was something like the Magpul MOE suggested above not to your liking?
The Magpul MOE looks like a fine system as well.
digitalpaladin
07-07-11, 15:59
I am interested in purchasing this rail + grip combo for a low price with the intent of slowly building an off-the-rack AR to the way I want.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003JCYS4A/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?ie=UTF8&m=A1KSNF4J3UCP19
What rifle did you purchase? Know what you have can help us help you better.
Are there any benefits to using rail systems that cost upwards of $150 compared to ones that can be found on Amazon for less than $60?
Cheap rails are heavier. They are made by communist slaves. And you'll find out quickly when you buy a $60 rail, it's yours for life. Can't sell it unless you are extremely lucky and find some airsoft type looking for any old rail to look tacticool.
Conversely, if you decide to sell your $240 rail at a typical 80-85% depreciation value you're only out about $40, with $200 back in your pocket. Way better than that $60 that you'll never see again.
My preference would be a TROY free float
My problems with MOE handguard is once you put a VFG, there is too much sloop for my liking..it is not rock solid
My first ar had the MOE set (S&W MP15MOE) and I really liked it. I'm sure quad rails could grow on me but my friends ar with them never suited me. If you grab the rails somewhere besides a vfg/handle with out gloves or rail covers it just felt uncomfortable to me.
Where as the moe setup allowed for adding lights/handles etc, was very light and felt good to grab on to. And I prefer the slightly triangle shape over the round shape.
contax_shooter
07-08-11, 09:52
What rifle did you purchase? Know what you have can help us help you better.
Stag M2.
The Magpul MOE doesn't interest me in the slightest bit being it's composed of plastic.
Stag M2.
The Magpul MOE doesn't interest me in the slightest bit being it's composed of plastic.
Seriously not to be a jerk, just wondering what about plastic is the turn off for you - at least in this application?
The MOE is a great platform to add accessories to. Impact Weapons Components makes a ton of mounts for lights, slings, etc for the MOE, Made in Colorado by American's, at very reasonable cost.
Here's a link: http://www.impactweaponscomponents.com/iwc/product/view/by_handguard_type/magpul-moe-carbine/
http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af110/mount-n-slot/SMC%201%20Light%20Mount-N-Slot/SMC-FrontObliqueView.jpg
Who makes that light mount?
Cheap rails are heavier. They are made by communist slaves. And you'll find out quickly when you buy a $60 rail, it's yours for life. Can't sell it unless you are extremely lucky and find some airsoft type looking for any old rail to look tacticool.
Conversely, if you decide to sell your $240 rail at a typical 80-85% depreciation value you're only out about $40, with $200 back in your pocket. Way better than that $60 that you'll never see again.
Because that $20 loss will ruin your life?
Who makes that light mount?
Seriously? Did you click on the link?
The Magpul MOE doesn't interest me in the slightest bit being it's composed of plastic.
I'm interested as well why you feel this is bad. It doesn't matter to me what you go with. There's a reason why MOE gear is highly recommended. What are your feelings on plastic stocks, grips, and mags then?
manofsteel
07-08-11, 15:02
i have a smith and wesson mp15 sport and wondering what is the best way to add a Picatinny rail to my stock handguards? A friend of mine is getting me a grip pod and wondering how to mount it.
I had been running moes for a couple years and recently upgraded to a troy trx extreme 13". What a great value for a rail. I looked at DD and other rails and decided over a long period of time to go with the trx. I'm done looking, any future builds will be the same. Nothing at all wrong with moes though. I had a light and an afg on mine with no issues.
Stag M2.
The Magpul MOE doesn't interest me in the slightest bit being it's composed of plastic.
This kind of attitude, relevant to modern, purpose built firearms is ignorant and asinine.
If you don't like it and it works, there is something wrong with you, not it.
Function over idiotic hang ups. It's kind of what this forum is about.
philipeggo
07-08-11, 23:42
sorry to derail slightly , for all of you MOE owners : Do you get any wobble when you mount things either directly to the MOE handguard or when you put on rails and then mount to those ? Thinking about caving and buying a set. Since ive never handled one im a bit curious as to how forward grips and the what not do on them. Also are they straight plastic or do they have a liner like stock CAR handguards.
sorry to derail slightly , for all of you MOE owners : Do you get any wobble when you mount things either directly to the MOE handguard or when you put on rails and then mount to those ? Thinking about caving and buying a set. Since ive never handled one im a bit curious as to how forward grips and the what not do on them. Also are they straight plastic or do they have a liner like stock CAR handguards.
They are metal-lined. I get little/no wobble from mine.
I don't run a VFG, but mounted one last weekend just to see, and it felt firm and wobble free.
The only thing I have mounted on it now, is a VTAC/G2 combo, and it's more than firm enough for that.
They are metal-lined. I get little/no wobble from mine.
I don't run a VFG, but mounted one last weekend just to see, and it felt firm and wobble free.
The only thing I have mounted on it now, is a VTAC/G2 combo, and it's more than firm enough for that.
Mine wiggled like crazy...I was very disappointed because it is a great handguard..but any movement makes me nuts.
I got a KAC drop in and its a great rail...but I am also looking into the Troy or ERGO Z Rail...they both look good
This kind of attitude, relevant to modern, purpose built firearms is ignorant and asinine.
If you don't like it and it works, there is something wrong with you, not it.
Function over idiotic hang ups. It's kind of what this forum was about.
Pardon my edit.
Underwhere
07-09-11, 07:45
Are there any benefits to using rail systems that cost upwards of $150 compared to ones that can be found on Amazon for less than $60?
From what I can see, rails are just an accessory that has very little pros/cons besides material (majority is made with some sort of aircraft aluminum) and maybe QC capabilities regarding burrs/cosmetics.
I am interested in purchasing this rail + grip combo for a low price with the intent of slowly building an off-the-rack AR to the way I want.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003JCYS4A/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?ie=UTF8&m=A1KSNF4J3UCP19
I think it's funny that every person on here says not to buy it yet can't give you a good reason why.
It's "cheap" or "Chinese" really doesn't seem to be a good reason.
Cheap is just the price. It has nothing to do with quality. If someone decided to unload their Daniel Defense rail for $50 would it mean it's not worth buying?
Chinese? Some of the major manufacturers are getting their stuff produced over there. While it is nice to think that the stuff you buy is designed and built here, the reality is that much of it is not. Even if it is built or made here, the raw materials are probably still coming from China.
Cheap metal?. When was the last time you had a piece of aluminum not function as a pieces of aluminum? Did it melt in your hand?
In my opinion there are a lot of cheap alternatives and you can pay the price for brand name if you want. Occasionally there are differences but many times you won't know until you receive the product in hand.
The benefit you get by buying name brand is that others have used them and you know they function and fit fine. Buying off brands you take a bit of a risk.
My bet is that if you got that rail and told everyone it was a Daniel Defense rail then I highly doubt anyone on here would be able to tell it wasn't. (other than the label).
I remember a friend and I once had the same car. Both of us bought short shifters and torque dampeners. I bought mine from ebay at a cost of $30 (shifter) and $35 (dampener). He spend $300 on a B&M short shifter and $130 on his dampener. When he arrived at my place to install them he found that his were literally identical to mine. Cheap metal? Could have fooled me. Mine functioned just as well as his for 3 years.
You should be choosy about the stuff you buy cheap. Some great deals can be had but there are also some products I wouldn't want. The more complex or precise the product the less likely I am to consider it if it is off-brand. Red dot optic? I'll stick with name brand for a defensive rifle because I know and have seen cheap electronics. On the other hand a vertical foregrip...how can you screw up a vertical foregrip?
On the other hand I personally wouldn't really go for a rail that isn't free floated. If you're spending the money why not? If you have an A2 front sight and if you have a muzzle device that is pinned on, Midwest Industries makes a 2 piece free float that you can install without removing either the FSB or muzzle device. I think other manufacturers do as well.
My bet is that if you got that rail and told everyone it was a Daniel Defense rail then I highly doubt anyone on here would be able to tell it wasn't. (other than the label).
You're joking, right?
the linked rail
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41O1gyuvDzL._SS400_.jpg
Daniel Defense rail
https://danieldefense.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/f/0/f02acf983faf073e6545690d1f8dc144.jpg
Underwhere,
You have been a member here since 2010. Apparently you haven't learned much. Aside from the fact that the Chinese companies are ripping off Americans and screwing us even more the issues with sub par rails have been discussed previously in other threads. Using the search button may help you.
To the OP. These types of threads are really getting silly. People come and ask for advice and when the answer doesn't suit them, they look for ways to get around it.
Buy whatever you think you want because no matter what we say you are going to do it anyhow.
I think it's funny that every person on here says not to buy it yet can't give you a good reason why.
It's "cheap" or "Chinese" really doesn't seem to be a good reason.
Cheap is just the price. It has nothing to do with quality. If someone decided to unload their Daniel Defense rail for $50 would it mean it's not worth buying?
Chinese? Some of the major manufacturers are getting their stuff produced over there. While it is nice to think that the stuff you buy is designed and built here, the reality is that much of it is not. Even if it is built or made here, the raw materials are probably still coming from China.
Cheap metal?. When was the last time you had a piece of aluminum not function as a pieces of aluminum? Did it melt in your hand?
In my opinion there are a lot of cheap alternatives and you can pay the price for brand name if you want. Occasionally there are differences but many times you won't know until you receive the product in hand.
The benefit you get by buying name brand is that others have used them and you know they function and fit fine. Buying off brands you take a bit of a risk.
My bet is that if you got that rail and told everyone it was a Daniel Defense rail then I highly doubt anyone on here would be able to tell it wasn't. (other than the label).
I remember a friend and I once had the same car. Both of us bought short shifters and torque dampeners. I bought mine from ebay at a cost of $30 (shifter) and $35 (dampener). He spend $300 on a B&M short shifter and $130 on his dampener. When he arrived at my place to install them he found that his were literally identical to mine. Cheap metal? Could have fooled me. Mine functioned just as well as his for 3 years.
You should be choosy about the stuff you buy cheap. Some great deals can be had but there are also some products I wouldn't want. The more complex or precise the product the less likely I am to consider it if it is off-brand. Red dot optic? I'll stick with name brand for a defensive rifle because I know and have seen cheap electronics. On the other hand a vertical foregrip...how can you screw up a vertical foregrip?
On the other hand I personally wouldn't really go for a rail that isn't free floated. If you're spending the money why not? If you have an A2 front sight and if you have a muzzle device that is pinned on, Midwest Industries makes a 2 piece free float that you can install without removing either the FSB or muzzle device. I think other manufacturers do as well.
Underwhere
07-09-11, 08:26
You're joking, right?
the linked rail
Daniel Defense rail
Ok maybe i went a bit far on that comment but ut was to illustrate a point.
Maybe a better analogy would be the aforementioned rail to a Midwest Industries piece.
You bring up a good point though. Other than looks why do you think a DD rail is better than the one the OP linked to?
Stag M2.
The Magpul MOE doesn't interest me in the slightest bit being it's composed of plastic.
Probably because it doesn't look as "cool" as a rail, not because it won't function properly. If you want a solid system to mount a VFG, then get the MOE. If you want a rail to show your buddies and look cool, with no real benefit to the function of the weapon, get a $50 rail off ebay. It sounds like you will probably go with the latter no matter what is suggested.
Other than looks why do you think a DD rail is better than the one the OP linked to?
Are you kidding? Have you held either one?
Underwhere
07-09-11, 08:38
Underwhere,
You have been a member here since 2010. Apparently you haven't learned much. Aside from the fact that the Chinese companies are ripping off Americans and screwing us even more the issues with sub par rails have been discussed previously in other threads. Using the search button may help you.
To the OP. These types of threads are really getting silly. People come and ask for advice and when the answer doesn't suit them, they look for ways to get around it.
Buy whatever you think you want because no matter what we say you are going to do it anyhow.
I'll take a look around and see what i can find about cheap Chinese rails and failures related to them. I haven't read much about them other than UTG being bad (and they are made in the US)
Underwhere
07-09-11, 08:44
Are you kidding? Have you held either one?
I haven't held the cheap on the OP is referring to. I've owned a DD lite rail.
Have you held the other one and can tell me they are good or not any good?
And by looking at someone else's rifle can you tell what is a cheap rail and what isn't? If I laid out 10 rifles with 10 different rails (all without labels), could you pick out the "best" ones or even the cheap ones?
I've had or have DD lite, Troy TRX Extreme, VTAC TRX Extreme, Troy TRX, Midwest Industries, YHM, Magpul and maybe a few other rails on my rifles. I haven't really had a cheapo rail on my rifles but it's because I was looking for specific features. If I really didn't care about the manufacturer and just really wanted a quad rail then I wouldn't have a problem with a cheapo as long as it worked.
I'm not here claiming that Chinese stuff is great. I would just like to see some reasoning behind all the opinions I've read.
All I'm saying is that if it fits on the rifle, and you can attach stuff to the rails then functionally....it's a rail and it works.
Wasn't someone earlier just saying something about function being more important than form?
This kind of attitude, relevant to modern, purpose built firearms is ignorant and asinine.
If you don't like it and it works, there is something wrong with you, not it.
Function over idiotic hang ups. It's kind of what this forum is about.
philipeggo
07-09-11, 08:56
Thanks for the help , i was thinking about one but sometimes i hear mixed things , more so about attachments wiggling than the actual hand-guards themselves. As a further sidenote i feel like this thread is turning into a " MY KIA is as good as your Ferrari " type deal. There are reasons people use higher quality products vs the cheap knock offs.
They are metal-lined. I get little/no wobble from mine.
I don't run a VFG, but mounted one last weekend just to see, and it felt firm and wobble free.
The only thing I have mounted on it now, is a VTAC/G2 combo, and it's more than firm enough for that.
The chicom rails are complete junk,there are far better options.As to the "buy once,cry once" saying.I wish i did!I purchased an MI first(was ok),then my Centurion.MUCH more happy with the C4!!!
I haven't held the cheap on the OP is referring to. I've owned a DD lite rail.
Have you held the other one and can tell me they are good or not any good?
And by looking at someone else's rifle can you tell what is a cheap rail and what isn't? If I laid out 10 rifles with 10 different rails (all without labels), could you pick out the "best" ones or even the cheap ones?
I've had or have DD lite, Troy TRX Extreme, VTAC TRX Extreme, Troy TRX, Midwest Industries, YHM, Magpul and maybe a few other rails on my rifles. I haven't really had a cheapo rail on my rifles but it's because I was looking for specific features. If I really didn't care about the manufacturer and just really wanted a quad rail then I wouldn't have a problem with a cheapo as long as it worked.
I'm not here claiming that Chinese stuff is great. I would just like to see some reasoning behind all the opinions I've read.
All I'm saying is that if it fits on the rifle, and you can attach stuff to the rails then functionally....it's a rail and it works.
Wasn't someone earlier just saying something about function being more important than form?
I've fabricated airplane parts out of aluminum of various types, and I can both see and feel the difference between high quality vs cheap aluminum stock and finished products.
The difference between different grades of 6061, 2024 and 7075 aluminum is easy to see and feel, and is extremely evident when you compare weights, strengths and durability.
Basically, to get an equivalent strength in the cheap 6061 (or worse), which is what cheap junk is made of, you need to make it much heavier. If you don't, the first time you correctly torque an accessory to the rail, it will distort, dent and mar the metal.
In other words, I'd pick good plastic over cheap metal 7 days a week.
Thanks for the help , i was thinking about one but sometimes i hear mixed things , more so about attachments wiggling than the actual hand-guards themselves. As a further sidenote i feel like this thread is turning into a " MY KIA is as good as your Ferrari " type deal. There are reasons people use higher quality products vs the cheap knock offs.
Proper torque helps a lot. As does good mounting hardware.
If the attachment wiggles, purchase better mounting hardware. Nothing wrong with using shims and washers when necessary to make it "right".
Pardon my edit.
Yeah. No shit. And suddenly, in the last few days, someone left the douchebag gate open again.
About MOE wobble.
I have installed 50 for various customers, and have never felt "wobble" on any. The worst thing that happened was that I did torque it really hard and it moved slightly...very slightly.
that wouldn't have any adverse affects on flashlights or VFG though.
All of the VFG I have installed don't move at all. (of course I tighten them properly)
FWIW.
MOUNT-N-SLOT
07-09-11, 10:40
Underwhere,
IWC is proud to make our kit in Colorado from USA materials because keeping manufacturing jobs here in America matter to us. Based on customer feedback, it matters to a lot of folks.
We proudly state what we believe in on our About Us page.
Compare what we say to the Chinese Company's site regarding America, Quality, Values and Warranty.
How do you FEEL?
IMHO
MOUNT-N-SLOT
philipeggo
07-09-11, 11:17
Something that just occurred to me , most of these cheapo rails cost between 70-90 dollars. why would they even be considered when a troy,dd,MI,YHM drop in rail costs MAYBE 50 bucks more. Seems like a no brainer to me. Hell i think ive seen the troy drop in rails for like 119.99 . Thats like drinking Miller high life when Sam Adams is .25 cents more. Lunacy i say!
Underwhere
07-09-11, 14:00
I've fabricated airplane parts out of aluminum of various types, and I can both see and feel the difference between high quality vs cheap aluminum stock and finished products.
The difference between different grades of 6061, 2024 and 7075 aluminum is easy to see and feel, and is extremely evident when you compare weights, strengths and durability.
Basically, to get an equivalent strength in the cheap 6061 (or worse), which is what cheap junk is made of, you need to make it much heavier. If you don't, the first time you correctly torque an accessory to the rail, it will distort, dent and mar the metal.
In other words, I'd pick good plastic over cheap metal 7 days a week.
I get that. I weld in my free time so I am aware that metal isn't all the same. My point is that we all don't need the strongest lightest metal out there because some of us just don't care if it's heavier.
If a guy takes his rifle out maybe twice a year and benches it, then does weight or durability really matter to him?
There's a product for everyone and not everyone needs the highest end product available...so if a cheap rail works as a rail, fits fine and suits your needs then I say it's a good buy.
Underwhere,
IWC is proud to make our kit in Colorado from USA materials because keeping manufacturing jobs here in America matter to us. Based on customer feedback, it matters to a lot of folks.
We proudly state what we believe in on our About Us page.
Compare what we say to the Chinese Company's site regarding America, Quality, Values and Warranty.
How do you FEEL?
IMHO
MOUNT-N-SLOT
I'm not sure why that was directed at me, nor why it's relevant in this discussion. I wasn't promoting Chinese products.
I think this nightmare is over. Everyone wake up now.
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