View Full Version : C-Products, the company I want to love...
...but just have to hate.
I own two of their products; 4 stainless steel 5.56 mags that were coated green and had Magpul Ranger plates installed by G&R and 2 30 round 9mm mags.
The 5.56 mags have been quite the saga. I bought them thinking that stainless was somehow better for a "go to" magazine, and I liked the coating as it made them easily recognizable. I wanted the orange followers they came with for something else, so I pulled them and installed grey Magpul followers instead. No dice. The followers would bind and stick and I couldn't even load the damn things. Turns out that, despite the fact that they are in no way marked as being different, the C-Products stainless mags use a different follower than aluminum mags. So, since I can't find the un-marked orange followers in the aluminum mags that they went into (where they function fine, BTW), I order up some new followers from C-Products site. Except that they don't let you buy just the follower and I have to buy a whole "mag rebuild kit" with a spring and floorplate that I don't need. Insert the new followers, load the mags, and guess what? They bind just like the damn orange ones did.:mad:
The 9mm mags were a godsend, or so I thought. The one thing keeping me from buying a 9mm AR was the availability of magazines. I waited and waited for the CP 9mm mags to come out, and when they did I ordered up a nice Colt 6450 and two 30 round CP 9mm mags. Except that it turns out the CP mags don't hold the bolt open. At least, unlike the 5.56 mags, they do appear to feed, but that bolt hold open thing just seems to elude them. CP says to send 'em in as they have a "fix" that is required So I send the mags back in, and here we are several weeks later with no call, no email, no mags, no nothing.
I guess I'll call them tomorrow, more out of morbid curiosity than anything else. Right now my inclination is to throw the 5.56 mags in the ocean (after salvaging the Ranger plates, of course) and, if they ever resurface, do the same with the 9mm mags.
How the hell did a company with such a great start and so much great potential wind up putting out so much crap? The internet is full of all sorts of horror stories of CP mags but I thought they were just going through a bad patch.
Yeah, I'm sure they'll take care of me eventually one way or the other, but frankly I don't want taken care of, I just want mags that work. It's not about the money, it's about buying a product that works and not having to deal with proprietary parts, and malfunctioning proprietary parts, and sending things back, and taking time out of the work day to call, etc. etc.
Anyone wanna sell me some Colt 9mm mags? I know they go for a song, but at this point I'll take anything if it works. :(
The end to your saga will be that the 9mm mags still won't hold the bolt open. I bought ten 5.56 mags from them and have a 30% failure rate. A friend of mine had his CP 9mm mags not hold the bolt open and sent them back for the "fix" and they came back still not holding the bolt open.
Best of luck.
BushmasterFanBoy
10-22-07, 21:18
I've bought two regular aluminum mags and they haven't given me a single hiccup, green followers and dry film bodies. The feed lips catch the rim of the case sometimes when I unload my mags by hand, but it has not given me any issues during firing. I guess STANAG's work just fine for me.:D
How the hell did a company with such a great start and so much great potential wind up putting out so much crap? The internet is full of all sorts of horror stories of CP mags but I thought they were just going through a bad patch.
CP didn't have a great start, they have been plagued with QC problems since the very first run of magazines shipped (late). The problems were followed by a promise to exchange the bad mags two for one that went unfulfilled, or rather ignored.
I have a half dozen of the SS mags that work perfectly but I bought them because I got a deal...otherwise I am not a CProducts customer.
Tell me about it.. had an LMT upper(new) that got a huge gouge in the cam pin recess area(in the upper) after working the action about 20 times, had to send that back.Also had 2 lmt gas carrier keys that came loose ,one at 350 rounds the other just went loose after 4000 rounds(also the gas tube wore out ).Bought a new LMT lower and the bolt catch broke after doing a function test.Had a(new) Trijicon TA-33 go down after 300 rounds.And just this week ALL 3 of my Aimpoint COMP M4'S had gone loose after 1500 rounds.:( .Also 5 of my 20 order of C products SS mag's were bad, rounds were binding up in the mag(I did the push the follower down 10 times with a ruler thing) and mags did not work in 2 of my ar's.I just threw the mags away, is was not worth it to (me) to send them back.I feel your pain Rob.:D.Ohh ya while im crying, I have 2 magpul CTR stocks that wont stay restricted and come loose after a few rounds have been fired lol , ill send them back someday lol.
I get a consistent 10% failure rate with their mags regardless of who I buy them from.:confused:
The mags that work do so w/o a single failure but that 10% just puts me off.
My experience with about two dozen CP SS mags has been positive. The T&E mags they sent are still running. They are frequently loaned out and have many thousand rounds on them. The balance show some minor quirks in finish, but no problems with function. The CS springs do show some surface rusting, especially those that live in trunks, but are wiped clean with no apparent issue. I would prefer a standard SS spring, and will ultimately switch. I haven't attempted to swap followers, but the ones supplied haven't required it. They are a good option for a long(er)-life mag.
I bought 10 of the plain Jane CP's with the Orange followers for $9 and some change through AR15.com and love them they have been my goto mags through a Bushy M4 a Bushy Dissapator a frankengun Bushy/Armalite cross and now my Armalite M15 these work all the time. I just bought 5 of the newest edition of the Magpul P mags and am hoping for the same reliability but more durability, if they prove to be both I'll probably buy 20 more for long term storage in case the AW ban comes back. I've heard the stories on the CP's but have not seen anything wrong with my own eyes.
Tell me about it.. had an LMT upper(new) that got a huge gouge in the cam pin recess area(in the upper) after working the action about 20 times, had to send that back.Also had 2 lmt gas carrier keys that came loose ,one at 350 rounds the other just went loose after 4000 rounds(also the gas tube wore out ).Bought a new LMT lower and the bolt catch broke after doing a function test.Had a(new) Trijicon TA-33 go down after 300 rounds.And just this week ALL 3 of my Aimpoint COMP M4'S had gone loose after 1500 rounds.:( .Also 5 of my 20 order of C products SS mag's were bad, rounds were binding up in the mag(I did the push the follower down 10 times with a ruler thing) and mags did not work in 2 of my ar's.I just threw the mags away, is was not worth it to (me) to send them back.I feel your pain Rob.:D.Ohh ya while im crying, I have 2 magpul CTR stocks that wont stay restricted and come loose after a few rounds have been fired lol , ill send them back someday lol.
Your a walking mess.
Hi Shihan, read your post about problems with LMT products and I was shocked! All the guys I know speak religously about them and their stuff is not cheap. I have always owned RRA stuff and never had similar problems, hope LMT makes good on any warrantes. Happy shooting!
Hi Shihan, read your post about problems with LMT products and I was shocked! All the guys I know speak religously about them and their stuff is not cheap. I have always owned RRA stuff and never had similar problems, hope LMT makes good on any warrantes. Happy shooting!
Hello I wasnt the one with the LMT problems. Just a FYI im a LMT dealer and have never had one returned or have been told about any issues with anything I have sold. All companies put out something less than steller from time to time but companies like LMT make it right.
Tell me about it.. had an LMT upper(new) that got a huge gouge in the cam pin recess area(in the upper) after working the action about 20 times, had to send that back.Also had 2 lmt gas carrier keys that came loose ,one at 350 rounds the other just went loose after 4000 rounds(also the gas tube wore out ).Bought a new LMT lower and the bolt catch broke after doing a function test.Had a(new) Trijicon TA-33 go down after 300 rounds.And just this week ALL 3 of my Aimpoint COMP M4'S had gone loose after 1500 rounds.:( .Also 5 of my 20 order of C products SS mag's were bad, rounds were binding up in the mag(I did the push the follower down 10 times with a ruler thing) and mags did not work in 2 of my ar's.I just threw the mags away, is was not worth it to (me) to send them back.I feel your pain Rob.:D.Ohh ya while im crying, I have 2 magpul CTR stocks that wont stay restricted and come loose after a few rounds have been fired lol , ill send them back someday lol.
Like I said in the lasty post is I sell alot of LMT stuff and have never had a hitch with anything I have sold. This has got me thinking, did you buy the LMT products direct from LMT?
Like I said in the lasty post is I sell alot of LMT stuff and have never had a hitch with anything I have sold. This has got me thinking, did you buy the LMT products direct from LMT? No ,most of the LMT stuff i bought was from Paul(Bravo Company) the 1 lower was from JTAC Supply. I talk to Paul 1 or 2 times a week,he has ALLWAYS done right by me.He can also confirm on the issues i have had with LMT.He has the upper with the huge gouge in it and i gave him the carriers with the loose keys.I love LMT so i am not knocking them, but it just sucks that i have had some issues with their products.But again LMT and Bravo Company have ALLWAYS made it right.
The internet is a wonderful thing, you can start a new company or make a new product, make sure key people have working products and let them post about how fine they are. Before you know it you have more business that you can handle or you get into unfamiliar territorry and your QC turns south.
I've seen this happen with quite a few different products, some you can chalk up to the "they just got too big too quick" others were nothing more than a scam to begin with. That's why you need to research and test a product for yourself, even then you take your chances.
Rob, I know you (and most others here) were "researching and testing" for yourself but I've read many posts from others that bought X products and put them up for SHTF or whatever because "everyone" says they're the best. Sorry if this sounds like a rant but I'm tired of this new internet sales approach.
Oh another thing, I'll take good QC over great CS anyday.
Oh another thing, I'll take good QC over great CS anyday.
Bingo. I'll likely continue to buy the 9mm mags because I don't have much of a choice and the 9mm is strictly a toy, but it sucks that they couldn't just copy the damn Colt mags and do it right.
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7544
When I got my 12 9mm mags back they all function properly.
I have not had a chance, been on travel, to test them further. Though I am pretty pleased with them overall.
I use the Hahn system, and apparently they need a slightly different position in the magwell than the Bushmaster and Colt systems.
I don't use their 5.56 mags, as I scored something like 80 BCM mags with magpul followers some time ago for $11/each.
I purchased one SS 30 round 5.56 body from CProducts and installed their orange follower, spring and floor plate. The mag runs fine but is a little tight in my 1986 Colt lower.
I purchased a total of 5 CP aluminum mags. When I went to replace the green followers with MagPul's, all 5 had binding issues requiring some mods to the follower to function properly. I had 10 LaBelle's which I replaced the green followers with MagPuls, also. Not a hitch. All the LaBelle's took the MP followers and functioned flawlessly. Needless to say, I haven't been impressed with the CP mags. Fortunately, the PMag has come out and I have a reasonably priced solution to my mag needs.
RogerinTPA
10-25-07, 21:16
I bought a dozen plain jane 30 round aluminum mags with the green followers back in march. I thought about switching followers to the orange ones, but after reading numerous feed complaints, I left them alone. No problems so far, except one won't drop free, but the others are ok.
toddackerman
10-26-07, 17:35
To answer your question about how they went bad so fast...
I think just like any manufacturing company that comes out with a new product that's suppose to "Save the World"...they grew way to fast and can't keep up. Any CS policy that is grounded on..."We'll fix it is doomed!". I would bet they won't make it. The industry doesn't need them IMHO. Too many reputable sources for the serious weapon systems.
Tack
I had the same experience as listed above. I purchased 10 to try out, and had a 30% failure rate. The binding was caused by material from the body that stuck out, catching the follower. I was able to take a file and remove the material, which gave me 10 working mags. I won't buy more, but I'm not going to throw them away either.
I just ordered 20 P-Mags with windows from Grant on Thursday. I'll keep the CMags in reserve. :D
I sent three defective aluminum magazines to them in March of '07. After much ado and comms, they still have not been returned or replaced. Primo customer service, man!:eek:
I'm just really curious why a CProd 9mm Colt pattern follower will not drop in to a new Colt mag.
I tried to see if I could drop in the CProd parts to my Colt mags, and it was a no go.
FWIW, I ordered two Colt 32 round 9mm mags. Worth the premium IMHO. I do not understand why CP can't just take a mold of the Colt follower and then reproduce it. Is a follower patented?
Wow, I have 10 of their aluminum 30 rounders with orange Magpul followers and all have been great. No problems whatsoever. $10 each from 44Mag on TOS.
Haven't tried their SS mags, but was planning to shortly. Also planning to try their 6.8 mags later this year when I get a 6.8 upper.
Of course, my Kimber works fine too...:confused:
I've had no problems with the alums or ss. A big problem was people were "finger ****ing" the rounds or the follower and when it "binded" up they ran to the internet and bitched. I don't know how many were returned or never fired but I'd wager it was a bunch. They probably all fired fine as well. I don't doubt problems exist but I have to discount most stories I read unless they actually fired with that magazine and experienced a failure they could trace to said magazine.
CProducts went under another company name at one time, I can't remember it but IIRC they were less than stellar and had to move and change name to get rid of that stigma.
I must be more lucky than I thought. I've been using seven CP SS mags almost exclusively for two years for training, practice and competition. I have yet to have a problem.
I wish I had this much luck with the occasional lottery ticket.
Hmmmmn, the (6) C-products 9mm mags I have are 32 rounders and work just perfectly in my RRA 9mm lower, including bolt hold open after the last round is fired.
Well, seems some have lots of issues and others are OK.
Now I'm glad I went with D&H and PAMGs.
I love all of this!
That putz at Cprod used to attack me when I'd point out their history of iffy QC in the past (on TOS). He'd call me a liar basically.
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