View Full Version : Hk p30 in 9 or 40
Im going to purchase a p30 and had made my mind up on .40. However, most of the people that have em got the 9. Any particular reason or just personal preference?
One of the reason would be, .40S&W wasn't available in first production.
If you decide in .40S&W then go for it.
H&K makes a fine product regardless of the chambering. So when selecting a defensive pistol, the first criteria is reliability, followed by durability. H&K has those nailed.
The 9mm is cheaper to shoot, and easier to shoot well with its recoil characteristics. However, .40S&W is not far behind in price and shootability. The .40 makes a larger hole than 9mm, and it does better in punching through barriers with its higher momentum and thicker nose. A lot of people choose 9mm as they can readily feel and experience the shooting benefits of 9mm, but the benefits of the .40 would be in terminal effects which very few people get to experience first hand so it is often ignored. When it comes to spending money, you should pick what you like as well. If you like .40, then you already know the answer to your question.
It really is just about preference. Both are good, I like 9X19.
I like 9mm too...
The guys at the local gun store took a Larry Vickers class a few months ago. They were all 40 cal fanatics. All of them told me they were disappointed in the 40 after that class.
Apparently the class involved shooting at hard targets, including an old junker car. They claimed that the 9mm, 40 and 45 all did well thru the windshield. However, they stated that the 40 did terrible thru metal parts, such as car doors and such. Apparently, the 9mm and 45 did much better in penetration.
I wasn't there, and did not see what part of the car they were trying to shoot at/thru. But, that's what they told me.
I like 9mm too...
The guys at the local gun store took a Larry Vickers class a few months ago. They were all 40 cal fanatics. All of them told me they were disappointed in the 40 after that class.
Apparently the class involved shooting at hard targets, including an old junker car. They claimed that the 9mm, 40 and 45 all did well thru the windshield. However, they stated that the 40 did terrible thru metal parts, such as car doors and such. Apparently, the 9mm and 45 did much better in penetration.
I wasn't there, and did not see what part of the car they were trying to shoot at/thru. But, that's what they told me.
In regards to the metal parts of a car, there are parts inside car doors. So, one round may punch through with ease, and another may not. Then of course the contours of a fender or door can once again allow one round with low deflection angle to do well, and another with high deflection angle to do poorly. Against regular sheet metal, the 147gr 9mm, 180gr .40S&W, and 230gr+P .45acp have similar penetration results. If higher velocity 9mm loads are used such as 115gr or 124gr, then the penetration ability of the 9mm against hard targets improves. So, does the .40S&W if you use 155gr or 165gr higher velocity loads. Another thing to consider is whether it was target ammo. The 9mm has an acute nose, the .45acp has a rounded nose also decent for penetration, and the .40S&W in FMJ form has a semi-wadcutter nose which does poorly in piercing hard materials. Duty ammo somewhat eliminates this element with the hollow point. Hard barrier penetration is a function of impact energy, area displaced, sectional density, projectile shape, and momentum. Apples to apples, oranges to oranges.
When it comes to shooting through a windshield, a .380acp will punch through a windshield. What is important is how extensive the damage to the person behind the windshield is and that cannot be determined by doing junk yard shoots.
I still go back to Dr. Robert's posts in regards to ATK testing which he was present for. After lengthy discussions and testing, it was determined that the .40 was the best overall performer in barrier testing against the widest variety of materials, and had the best overall characteristics against simulated human tissue. Dr. Roberts was so impressed that he emphasized that for police use the .40 should be considered as the caliber to use, given that the platform to shoot it out of was ideal. Then there is the issue of higher momentum loads doing more damage to internal bone structure than lighter calibers. In Dr. Lane's 1993 FBI study, he surround a femur with ballistic gel and fired various 9mm and .45acp JHP loads through it. The 9mm never penetrated the femur, but the .45 punched clean through it and exited the leg. The Candians demonstrated it with their internal bone study in 1994, and the FBI took it further with their study in 1999 which showed the .40S&W to also do well.
For us Feds, the .40 is getting more use than any other calibers and its popularity is growing. It might be because the .40 makes for an ideal compromise between the 9mm and .45acp proponents in the ranks. Either way, if it had any performance deficiencies those issues would have been brought to light after 20 years of extensive service use. Remember, the .40 is probably the most researched and tested handgun cartridge ever created after the FBI determined that their ideal load was the 10mm lite which launched a 180gr bullet at 980fps.
However, the .40 is not as user friendly as the 9mm. You need to mate the right platform with the right load in order to shoot the .40 as fast as you can with 9mm. The M&P .40 is one such platform that is very easy to shoot. With the 9mm, you don't have this dependency as all loads are easy to control. The shooter at the gun range can readily feel and experience the benefits of the 9mm, which is why most people go with the 9mm as it is easier to control.
eternal24k
07-07-11, 11:40
Unless you own a .40 and not a 9mm I would go 9mm. I personally ditched the .40 for the more abundant, cheaper, and softer (recoil) 9mm. I think it would be more beneficial for any shooter with a budget to buy 9mm and get those extra rounds on the range, or have extra money for a class.
I have the 9-40 & HK 45. Some people have complained about the trigger biting their finger. This never occurred with 9 and 45. But shooting my 40 does work my finger a little. It doesn't bite bad or anything, but does get uncomfortable for some reason. I know, makes no sense, but it is what it is. Just my experience.
Very nice gun though. I like the long slide versions, which makes my forty very comfortable to shoot.
PB
RagweedZulu
07-08-11, 01:38
As far as barrier penetration goes, my agency specifically picked the .40 because we work in/around vehicles all day. We' ve ran informal tests and have always had great results with penetration, expansion through sheet metal. If your AO involves light barriers you might want to look at the .40 or .45. If you are strictly planning on anti-personnel use, you could probably get by with the 9mm, but why do that when the same size frame will take the larger, more effective caliber?
Why?
Shoot under stress at speed like some is trying to kill you; or go to a USPSA or IDPA shoot.
Then shoot first 3 stages strong hand only.
Then shoot the last 3 stages weak hand only.
Tally scores.
Go the following week with the 40 cal. In most guns you'll do far worse.
Hence 9mm. It doesnt matter what it can go through if you cant hit it with one hand. Cue Bill Rodgers.
FIN.
Why?
Shoot under stress at speed like some is trying to kill you; or go to a USPSA or IDPA shoot.
Then shoot first 3 stages strong hand only.
Then shoot the last 3 stages weak hand only.
Tally scores.
Go the following week with the 40 cal. In most guns you'll do far worse.
Hence 9mm. It doesnt matter what it can go through if you cant hit it with one hand. Cue Bill Rodgers.
FIN.
I've only fired one .40 and it was a glock 23. Is recoil that muxh more than a 9mm? I mainly shoot 1911s
Why?
Shoot under stress at speed like some is trying to kill you; or go to a USPSA or IDPA shoot.
Then shoot first 3 stages strong hand only.
Then shoot the last 3 stages weak hand only.
Tally scores.
Go the following week with the 40 cal. In most guns you'll do far worse.
Hence 9mm. It doesnt matter what it can go through if you cant hit it with one hand. Cue Bill Rodgers.
FIN.
This and 9mm has more capacity = All 9mm, all the time.
I've only fired one .40 and it was a glock 23. Is recoil that muxh more than a 9mm? I mainly shoot 1911s
Not really. With 180gr loads, it's hard to tell the difference between the .40 and a 124gr+P 9mm.
KhanRad, dont you have p30 9mm for sale? Any reason you chose to sell this gun over any other toys? Just curious.
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