Sequence of modifications [Archive]

rob_s

07-09-11, 08:53

I think we've done this before but typically it's been a newer shooter looking for advice and they tend to unhinge, or they are older threads and I think it would be interesting to start fresh.

Caveat is that you have to start out by stating what application you're designing to: precision, CQB, plinking, competition, etc. (you are not limited to these categories).

Then the question is what order you would make your modifications. Do you install a new grip first? Optics? Stock? what do you do next? and most importantly, WHY? It doesn't have to be "I would install a Magpul MOE stock" but instead should just be "replace the stock".

Let's assume starting with a Colt 6920 as well, and from there everything is fair game from the barrel to the stock to the sights to the muzzle device.

And lets skip the "training" response. It's pretty well established at this point that most of us here believe in it, and those that don't aren't going to change their minds, so let's just avoid it altogether here. we can also skip, "ammo and mags" as they are pretty self evident right along with training.

The idea here is to see if we can establish a consensus on the sequence of modifications for a given purpose that later on we can point newer shooters/buyers to in order to help them prioritize.

Iraqgunz

07-09-11, 09:03

rob_s,

The question is really are the modifications needed? Or is this just a hypothetical situation?

Generally when I build something for myself I already have an idea on how it will be set up and I install everything at once. The exception being if something new comes around and I test it out by replacing something on my AR. If I decide to keep it, it stays.

rob_s

07-09-11, 09:09

Let me try to clarify.

You have limited funds. You are given (or buy, whatever) a Colt 6920. For your purposes (and please state what those purposes are), and knowing everything you know now, what do you change first on the gun? What do you change second. You. Personally. I don't want to get into "need" vs. "want", but I think we all would agree that if you're going to use the 6920 for HD at some point you're going to need to add a light. The question is do you do that first, second? If second, what comes before it and why. Etc.

For example, every AR that comes to me, the first thing I do is change the A2 grip out if it comes so-equipped. If for some reason I can't do that, I add a Gapper. Sometimes even if it comes with another grip (such as the MOE) I still add the Gapper. Reason being that I ran an SR15E3 through TD1 at an EAG class with an A2 grip on it and by TD2 my finger was not only raw but actually bruised from the bump and the triggerguard wings. So every gun, regardless of what I'm doing with it, gets attention at the grip first thing.

My list would go on from there. But I want to see if we get any replies first before simply posting my list for people to pick apart. In fact, it would be nice if this thread could avoid people picking apart each other's lists other than to ask people for clarifications on their choices and their "why".

R Moran

07-09-11, 09:23

Posting from the phone, so I'll be brief....if I understand your line of thought correctly, Rob, this my order, for a CAN/general purpose set up..

1- Sling
2- Light
3- Aimpoint
4- Ergo type stuff:
Pistol grip
Stock
Charging handle latch
5- FF rail/handguard

That what you looking for?

Bob

tnt1106

07-09-11, 09:34

Intended use:

Home defense, Competition, Training.

1. Weapon mounted light. (with this I prefer to mount on a short light weight rail such as a DD 7". I feel the rail provides a better surface to grip or "catch" my hands if wet)

2. Sling. Never know when you need your hands free.

3. Optic. (Aimpoint micro)

4. Grip (if pinching issues) - Mine never felt "right" changed to MIAD and is perfect now.

5. Stock (if not comfortable to shoot extended periods) My M4? Stock cut deeply into my shoulder during classes changed to CTR (moe would be fine CTR eliminates the "wiggle".

6. (added) Although I have yet to add this shooting some BC 1.0 - 2.0 equipped rifles, I would like to add one of these muzzle devices for ease of follow up shots / flash reduction.

That's it. I followed this same upgrade path on my current rifle (ddxv) and so far there is nothing I would change. (on my rifle sub out Aimpoint for an Acog that was a B-day present.)

120mm

07-09-11, 09:39

1. MOE forearm (because step 2 depends on it)
2. Light
3. Aimpoint
4. Sling

This is what I do, now. Cannot imagine what else I'd want on a carbine.

BrigandTwoFour

07-09-11, 09:42

Well,there are a lot of variables here, not least of which is the experience of the shooter. Like IG, I tend to do it all at once when I assemble rather than replacing each part individually.

If it was myself, and assuming this will be my only carbine, then it would have to be a "general purpose" build.

Though I much prefer the magpul flavor, I am quite comfortable with the ergos of the A2 grip and M4 stock, so those would stay.

I think the iron sights are fine for most uses, so my first investments would go to a quality light source and method to mount it, if that meant a magpul MOE and mount-n-slot, so be it.

Next would be a good sling to use as both a carry and shooting aid.

Next would be the optic.

Furniture comes next, followed by gizmos.

So, in short:
1. Light and mounting solution
2. Sling
3. Optic
4. Furniture/free floating set up
5. Gizmos (triggers, muzzle devices, etc)

philipeggo

07-09-11, 09:45

1) Grip
2)stock
3) Hand-guard

From there i would go shoot and see if any of those needed replacing , sometimes i have found that even though i want to like a product i just cant (like the tango down grip) . Since im a bit more on the vertically compact side its important to me that my rifle be comfortable because if not then ill have a hard time wielding it.

4)Sling
5a) optic
5b)Light
6)every thing else , forward grip,sights,ambi safety etc..

Again my goal is to make it comfortable first and then with my limited funds add on as needs dictate. i believe that with this template i can out fit any rifle for any purpose . The only problem is i have to make a list because i know me and i have a habit of buying stuff i dont need . I hope this didnt deviate to far from what you were looking for.

DelSole

07-09-11, 09:48

I recently went through this with my patrol rifle.
I aded a short piece of rail and a M3 light.
At the same time,
I replaced the A2 style grip, that hump in it bothers my fingers.
I added an oversized trigger gaurd, it serves two purposes the larger opening is good with the gloves I wear and it fills the gap.
The light was first. For this thread I consider the others 2 and 3.
I chose these three for the following reasons.
A light is good for work, the grip makes it easier for me to manipulate the safety while maintaining my grip. I am a lefty. The trigger gaurd fills the gap and allows me to keep my winter gloves on.

bakercountyboy

07-09-11, 10:08

with the ar i just got, that will be my patrol rifle. i just ordered a moe grip and stock. bcm mod4 charging handle, and magpul aluminum trigger guard. it just makes my rifle more comfortable for me. i think it all depends what task you will use your rifle for. i think some people like to mod for the sake for modding

GeorgiaBoy

07-09-11, 10:36

My first AR dropped in the "Home defense and recreational shooting" category.

The list of modications I did went as this:

- Aimpoint Optic
- Magpul MOE stock and grip
- 12.0 FSP rail and magpul AFG
- Weapon light
- Sling mounting and sling

If I went back in time and would have changed that, I would have went with:

- Sling
- Aimpoint Optic
- No magpul accessories unti I had shot with the standard stock and grip for a long time
- Would probably have still got the rail, I like my hand further out like this rail provides and where I can mount the light

obucina

07-09-11, 10:45

my first list when i got my bushmaster was as follows

-EoTech
-GG&G Foregrip, which I ended up hating
-PMags

Now, I have a Matech BUIS, CTR Stock, which felt like a big improvement as my OEM one was rattle-matic, Ares sling, DD FSB 12in rail, Magpul stubby foregrip. Also, a development of the thumb break method that I have found is beneficial for me as I gots long arms and big paws.

If I would have done it again:

-A better quality rifle
-PMags
-Quality 2 point sling
-Ammo
-Shoot irons

FishingFool

07-09-11, 10:56

Assuming I would start with the 6920 with carry handle as base and i'd slowly add parts and pieces as time goes by:

Red Dot Carbine

The What:

1. Magpul Trigger Guard.
2. Magpul Moe Grip.
3. Magpul Bad Lever.
4. BCM Gunfighter Charging Handle.
5. 14.5" Midlength Pencil Barrel w/ Fixed FSB.
6. Moe handguards.
7. VTAC / Surefire Mini L4 in VTAC mount on handguard at 1 o'clock on a magpul cantilever moe rail.
8. ASAP Plate and Sling.
9. T-1 w/ Larue 1/3 co-witness mount.
10. Magpul Folding Rear Buis.
11. Magpul Moe Stock.
12. Smith Vortex FH.

The Why:
1. Receiving rubbing on index finger really hurts when handling the carbine a lot. I think everyone that shoots a lot agrees that mitigating this is high up on the list.
2. Stock Grip too small
3. Getting use to this device in the manual of arms requires practice.
4. By this time the original charging handle would start to bend with 1 sided charging.
5. Carbine length handguard are really cramped. Skinny barrel takes weight away.
6. Need a place to the the light
7. Good single output light. Don't like pressure switches.
8. Need to sling it somehow.
9. Time to ditch the charging handle.
10. T-1's are tough BUIS can come later.
11. Little more comfortable.
12. Why not at this point.

Dump1567

07-09-11, 10:56

SD Rifle:

MOE PG or A1 (I also don't like the finger groove).
MOE HG - keeps the weight down
Off-set light mounted to small rail towards the front on top of MOE HG. (keeps from interferring with use of rail. Thumb activated.)
Two point sling with some kind of QD. Mounted to side of rifle. I use the Colt style front sight side mount. Again, keeps the rail clear (especially when using a small carbine size rail).
Aimpoint in quality QD mount
DD 1.5 fixed rear or fold down BUIS
Lefty- Ambi safety

Plinking / period rifle:

Whatever is correct for the build

brzusa.1911

07-09-11, 11:17

Intended use - HD

1. Ergo Suregrip, BUIS, RDS, flash light, mount for flash light.
2. Ambidextrous controls
3. Stock

This is all I need on a HD rifle. I even removed the sling from this rifle as I don't feel dealing with other things that might get in the way in the middle of the night.

Rosco Benson

07-09-11, 11:17

Use; self-defense and offense

1. Aimpoint w/appropriate mount (I can hit better and quicker with one than with irons)

2. Simple white light (gotta ID the target).

3. Back-up rear iron sight (not #2 only because the Aimpoints are so reliable).

4. Pistol grip (I like the MOE as well as any. Better comfort & better trigger reach dimensions. The Ergo is okay too.).

5. Buttstock (MOE, CTR, or Rogers' new one. The factory stock's toe isn't quite low enough for best use).

6. 2-point sling (the Vickers or the VTAC both work well).

7. VFG (this probably drags along the purchase of a cheese-grater forend too, so this is a high dollar deal. I prefer an uncluttered view through the Aimpoint too, so this upgrade will also drag along a flip-up, rail-mounted front sight. Hard to justify from a purely $ versus performance standpoint.)

8. Roomier trigger guard (the Magpul is as good as any).

That's about it for me, regardless of whether I'm on a budget or am given a blank check.

Rosco

Fire_Medic

07-09-11, 11:32

For plinking, CQB and starting with a 6920 as you state Rob, this is my list:

1- Change pistol Grip/Trigger Guard
2- Sling
3- Ambi Safety/BAD Lever
4- MOE handguards + White Light
5- Troy BUIS
6- Gunfighter CG Mod 4
7- Change Stock
8- Aimpoint RDS

This is the order that comes to mind, but depending on coming across certain deals on the used market, and given how cheap some of the mods are, some of the mods might be done sooner.

Now the why:

1- I like skin on my fingers, middle knuckle takes a beating with stock setup

2- Sling so I can start getting out to shot right way and not have to carry my rifle everywhere in my hands, to me NOT having a sling is a SAFETY issue too for anything other than bench shooting.

3- I am just use to the BAD lever, and having an ambi safety, I am faster this way and in my opinion safer because it's easier for me to get my safety on whether I am shooting strong handed, or switch to support side.

4- The MOE hand guards are light and allow you to mount lights, VFG's, sling attachment points etc. You can use the MOE illumination kit, or go to IWC for a variety of options. I think this is the most versatile hand guard without forking over big $$ for a rail.

5- I prefer a flip up rear BUIS and to me Troy is the standard.

6- This is a SOLID CH and you can do the "gas buster" mod as per USMC03 and you're good to go. I like the Medium because it doesn't get in the way and gives you enough of a purchase point. Noveske must feel the same as it comes on most their kits now.

7- There's is nothing wrong with an M4 stock, but I prefer something with a better feel to it with more solid lock up.

8- This is where I would most likely catch some slack. Most guys have the RDS at the top of their list. To me, for the cost of a quality sight I can knock out everything else in my list first. It does nothing for me to have an RDS but no sling to carry my weapon, no white light to identify targets, and my finger getting chewed up by the A2 grip, and no ambi safety for quicker manual of arms. I can also still shoot my gun with just irons (as I have).

I do know the advantage of the RDS over irons, (you know this Rob) but I still put it at the bottom of my list. If I could do everything all over again the RDS would still be last.

For a new shooter because I think you need to learn how to use your irons, and for an experienced shooter it wouldn't hurt you on a new build to get some time on the irons since your AP probably has not gone down in forever.

Just my $0.02 :D

BTS

07-09-11, 12:14

Range and Basic Training with a very distant likelihood of SHTF use

1. .22 Conversion kit. I live within 5 minutes of an indoor pistol range that only allows rifles if they are .22lr. For every one 5.56 round I put through an AR, I usually put 1000’s of .22lr.

2. Magpul MOE furniture all around. I don’t like the M4 handguards and like others, the A2 grip starts to eat into my hand rather quickly. :mad:

3. Sling
4. Light
5. RDS
6. BUIS

Honestly, that’s about it.

maximus83

07-09-11, 13:14

As has been said: Sling, light, grips, stock, BUIS.

For LH shooters or those who want to train shooting both ways, ambi controls can help. Safety selector at minimum, some also find the ambi CH and ambi mag release to be worthwhile (see Military Moron's reviews for choices). I've not added these extras yet but am considering the ambi CH.

mvician

07-09-11, 13:50

Let's assume starting with a Colt 6920 as well, and from there everything is fair game from the barrel to the stock to the sights to the muzzle device.

Starting with a 6920 for a general use rifle (HD, training, range use) I would do the following.

1. Replace grip and trigger guard. While the A2 grip works, it just doesn't "fit" my hand very well. While doing this I'd change the TG to a Magpul model.

2. Light setup. This would include a way of mounting it to the rifle. Currently I like the MOE with a IWC mount.

3. Sling. 2 point or a single to 2 pt convertible. This would also include mounts for sling. Would utilize the 6920 M4 mount on the front and add a mount at the rear of the receiver. I tend to buy "used" from various board EE's so the mount may vary.

4. Again shopping the EE's I look for (in no particular order)

BUIS, BCM GunFighter, Magpul BAD, BAD ASS, CTR

5. RDS, this purchase may happen anywhere along the "build" as a deal presents itself on a EE board.

usmc1371

07-09-11, 13:59

Use, ranch truck gun, and a couple 2 gun matches a year, maybe a class or two. I am starting with-
LMT lower ambi safety two stage trigger
CTR stock
BCM 16" stainles mid length
Vtac trx 13'' handguard
BCM mod 5 CH
DD auto bcg

I still aint sure if I am getting some folding irons to play with first or low power scope like Leupold VX-R 1.5x4 or some thing like that. It will wear a scope 99% of the time but I still love shooting irons just for the fun of it.
Sling!
Light+mount
RDS prob an aimpoint down the road.

Why. I am building it to be great for its primary use and ok for its secondary uses.

Nytcrawler93

07-09-11, 14:00

This is what I did: starting with a mid-length spikes LE 16"
For HD/range toy:
1. Magpul rear Gen 2 BUIS (didn't have a rear sight at all)
2. Magpul CTR with extended pad (Needed the length because I am apelike)
3. Magpul MIAD (wasn't sure MOE was thick enough)
4. Magpul trigger guard (wanted room for gloves)
5. Magpul ASAP (like the side to side aspect)
6. Sling is next because it was only seeing range use at this time.

If I had it to do over.
1. Magpul BUIS
2. Aimpoint Micro (irons are slow compared to a good sight)
3. Sling (probably a magpul because I seem to gravitate towards magpul stuff)
4. CTR with extended pad
5. MOE or MIAD grip
6. Any cheap sling adapter (can use the CTR and original sling mount.)
7. Winter trigger guard.
8. DD 12 inch rail
9. Light. I put the light last because it is just as easy to tape a small light to your gun in a pinch.

Of course, I am a noob to the AR and this was only my second semi build so take it FWIW.:smile:

mkmckinley

07-09-11, 15:09

This nice thing about an AR is you can get a lot of uses out of one build. An AR for classes, plinking, and self defense can also be used to hunt small game at modest distance. That said, I'd start out with an AR that gets me as close as possible to what I want and then add the extras as necessary. Therefore I wouldn't start with a 6920, I'd start with a BCM with a mid-gas lightweight BFH barrel. I'd add a grip that sets my hand back a ways ala Ergo, MOE or the newer Tangodown. I'd include a KAC 300m sight right off the bat. From there I'd add:

Flashlight: A G2X or X300 at 12:00. I'd add the light first because it's relatively cheap and a carbine + flashlight is the bare minimum for a home defense rig, IMO. I use a rial mount but a simple, cheap way to mount it would be MOE grip and IWC mount.

Sling: I like the Blue Force Gear ones, they adjust easily and are well made. The VTAC ones are excellent as well. I'd add this second because, again, it's pretty cheap and allows you to start training using a sling. I like the Magpul ASAP plate for a rear mount and I like the front mounted near the magwell. I use a Noveske QD adapter in a Troy TRX Extreme rail, but there are tons of ways to mount the sling.

Red Dot: Personal preference, but the Aimpoint H-1 is hard to beat because you can leave it on all the time. One less thing to have to worry about in a "bump in the night scenario. For a budget the Aimpoint patrol optic looks like a great choice. I also like the Eotech EXPS optics.

Rail: This is probably the least important item and it's arguable whether it's even necessary. The MOE handguards are quite capable. I use the TRX extreme because it's lightweight and free floats barrel. It also lets me put my support hand well forward on the gun.

Muzzle device: I just use an A2 but I'll get a Battlecomp or some equivalent as soon as they come out with one that can mount a 51 tooth AAC can.

That's about it.

MistWolf

07-09-11, 15:15

Using the situation as postulated by Rob- I need a HD/General use carbine and start with a Colt 6920.

First thing I do is dry fire, then shoot it. Why? I have very little experience with an AR in this configuration, about 1 magazine's worth. It's also to test functionality of rifle and magazines. A sling is installed and it's time to head for the range. In this case, we will assume function is 100%.

Trigger is evaluated. No two stock AR triggers feel the same. Some have a better pull than others. Is the trigger acceptable? Did I get lucky and get an exceptional trigger? Did I get unlucky and get something really horrible? Does the trigger improve after cleaning & lubing? This will determine whether or not I decide to replace the trigger and how high of a priority it becomes.

No doubt in my mind, I want to replace the pistol grip. Never cared for the A2 style. Too skinny, too far forward and the bump is very uncomfortable. I like the MIAD on my current AR but would probably be just as happy with the MOE. I would also look for ways to eliminate the edges & gap where the grip meets the trigger guard. I have been contemplating a little recontouring in this area.

How does the forearm feel? Can I live with the stock, round forearm, or would it be better to switch to something more comfortable? Will this carbine shoot well enough for my purposes with the non-float style, or would a free float style be better? If a non-free float works fine, I'd probably switch to the MOE. If deciding I'd be better served with a FF, I'll look for a small diameter carbon fiber tube, or get the PRI Delta as both fit my hand better than the standard diameter round tubes. Aluminum guards heat up more than I want. I don't like how the quad rails fit in my hand. Once the handguard issue is settled, a Mount & Slot flashlight mount is installed & tested (non-rail version as it looks like it's lighter than using a rail section & mount).

Since I started with a Colt 6920, I assume it's impractical to change the barrel. Given a choice, I would prefer a middie with a pencil profile over the M4 profile. Thought would be given to shaving the front sight to accommodate the installation of a longer and free floating handguard. Replacement front sights options are given consideration if the FSB is shaved and longer tube installed. Obviously, a top rail would be needed. Rifle is shot again to see if mounting the front sight on the handguard causes problems from flexing and changing POI. This leads to contemplating if an RDS or low power optic is needed now, or if it can wait.

With the issue of the front sight settled (or maybe beforehand), the carry handle is scheduled for an appointment with Dr. Dremel and Nurse Bighammers for a bit of liposuction. Weight reduction is good and cutting the carry handle adds no cost and there is no loss in performance. This will only hurt a little bit...

Now it's time to address the buttstock. I like the UBR used on my precision AR, but it might be a bit heavy for a carbine. The upper is installed on my current lower and shot to see how it feels. If I like it, will probably go with a UBR. But the CTR and the MOE are less expensive options and lighter options. The factory stock is a bit uncomfortable. The Magpul stocks also have a rubber recoil pad. The pads grip the shoulder better and offer protection to the butt of the stock.

This is what I would do with a Colt 6920. While I have been shooting for more years than my vanity allows me to admit, I have little hands on experience with an AR carbine (my ARs have been 20 inchers).

In reality, I plan to start with a plain BCM middie upper and will shoot it on my current lower (with SSA-E trigger and UBR stock) to start. I have a feeling that the pull of the SSA-E, while a good choice for my precision upper, will prove to have a lighter pull than I want for the carbine

shootist~

07-09-11, 15:18

Precision and/or 3-Gun type competition:
They all get the same general setup, but order of preference if I'm doing piecemeal:

Optic
Trigger
Muzzle Device
Rail
Stock

Shiz

07-09-11, 15:23

For a newb?

1. sling set up. (end plate, etc.) (they need to learn how to shoot tactically and become ready quickly from a slung position._
2. Grip/rubber insert (until today i didn't know the insert existed, but i learned how to sand down that sucker so it wasn't sharp...insert MUCH better idea...sigh)
3. MOE+rails or quad for hand stop VFG, AFG whatever. (part of learning fundamentals )
4. Light
5. Flash suppressor
6. Moe stock or CTR.

after newb has learned IRONS, then get a aimpoint.

Magic_Salad0892

07-09-11, 16:27

If I was handed a 6720 and just to make a general purpose rifle:

I'd first replace the handguard to KAC URX-II 7'' carbine.
This way I can mount a light, and handstop the way I prefer.
With the light and mount (SureFire Scout, and KAC 1'' 3 O'clock mount + Tape Switch) I can use it as an HD gun.

I'd shave down the bump on the A2 grip, and fill the gap with RTV silicon, and shape it so it's easy to remove.

Then I'd paint the front aperture with glow in the dark paint, and add a KAC carbine endplate and sling. Sling would be (for that setup) an EMDOM/MM, or Gear Sector 2-Point.

I'd cut the carry handle sight, to feign a LMT BUIS, until I got another sight. The gun would use Irons for now.

Tango Down BG-17, and KAC trigger guard would be added.

The BCM charging handle would come next, for ease of manipulation.

VLTOR A5 would be added, along with Sprinco GREEN spring, for better function.

KAC 30mm optic mount, and cheap (under $1K) variable optic would be added, along with KAC 600m Micro rear.

LMT SOPMOD stock would be added.

Barrel would be cut to 11.5''. 6720 barrel profile would make this even better.

KAC T3 brake, and QDSS-NT4 would be added.

KAC Match trigger would be added.

In the order from most important, to least important.

ramsker

07-09-11, 16:51

This is a fantastic thread for me to get ideas from, since I'm brand new to the AR world . . . bought my first AR (DDM4) with the help of you guys a few weeks ago and fired & cleaned it for the very first time last weekend!

So for me, the first things that struck me were that I'll need/want for my run-o-the-mill plinking are:

- Sling (found out fast that carrying all my crap down the hill at the cabin, including the rifle and misc stuff . . . gonna need a sling ASAP)

- Optic (want to get good with the iron sights first but will want one)

Anything else at this stage, I frankly don't know what I don't know. Need to shoot the hell out of the rifle and find out.

JSGlock34

07-09-11, 16:58

For general purpose use...

1) Optic - a modern optic is the single best enhancement to marksmanship that any user can add.

2) Sling - you gotta carry your rifle. You can make do with a simple strap, but the modern adjustable two points (Vickers or VTAC) are so much more versatile.

3) Grip - I can make do with a standard A2 grip, but my preference is a MIAD or MOE. The gapper is a useful addition as well.

Really, a 6920 with an Aimpoint and a decent sling is all that is needed for the majority of uses I can see. There are plenty of 'nice to add' comfort features (preferred stock, grip, foregrip, etc), but at the end of the day these have little impact on my shooting.

EzGoingKev

07-09-11, 17:11

Started with a used Colt 6920 that came with an ACOG 4x on it. The purpose of the rifle is for defense and range use. This was the order I did stuff on my rifle.

ACOG mounted on carry handle -> ACOG mounted on flattop w/ ARMS 40 sight. Better eye relief, lower profile of the rifle.
A2 grip -> MIAD. Never liked the A2 grip. MIAD because it is end user configurable.
Stock hand guards -> LaRue 7" rail. Wanted to mount light, VFG.
VLTOR offset light mount and Fenix TK11 light.
CQD end plate sling mount and a Blackhawk sling.
cheap eBay VFG to get a feel for it -> LaRue FUG w/ flush mount bottom piece. Wanted something short and that could come off quick and easy.
GI stock -> Sopmod. Liked the profile, storage compartments, and rubber buttpad. Got a good deal on it.
Sold the ACOG -> Elcan Specter DR 1x4. I liked how it can fill the role of CQB and distance shooting at the flip of the lever. Also, as I am getting older my eyesight isn't what it used to be and the ACOG's reticle was just too fine for my liking.
Stock hinged trigger guard -> Magpul fixed trigger guard. That gap sucks, it chews the shit out your finger.
A2 flash hider -> Battle Comp 1.0. Read great reviews of it. I live in a ban state and the subject of the A2 being legal is unclear. As the BC is classified as compensator it gives me piece of mind.
Colt 1/2 moon BCG -> LMT S/A enhanced bolt, Spikes Super Bolt, M16 spec firing pin. Heavier and shrouded firing pin. I used the M16 firing pin because that was what came in Colt parts kit I bought.
Colt 4 position receiver extension & H2 buffer -> Spike's 6 position receiver extension & ST2 buffer. Like the position of the 6 position better than the 4. I know the "experts" on here bash the ST2 buffer but BCM sells them and gives them a good rating.
Colt charging handle -> LMT handle. Wanted the wider lever but did not want something that stuck out too far.
Stock trigger -> Geissele SSA. My stock trigger was OK pull wise but had a lot of creep in it. I took it apart, cleaned it, and lubed it. That made it a lot better but I was curious as to what the difference was so I bought one and have no intentions to go back.

My VLTOR A5 set up showed up last night but I am sick in bed so it is going to have to wait.

The biggest expense was the Elcan. The money I got for the ACOG offset some of the cost and I negotiated on the price so I did not pay as much as some people have.

I have another upper I put together using a BCM upper, mid lenght KAC URX II rail I picked up used for $200, and a Green Mountain barrel. It has a BC 2.0 on it that I got new in the package for cheap money from a classified section.

I like the URX II better than the LaRue rail. It is pretty light, has the folding front sight built into it, and IMO is easier to install. I also like how the longer length has allowed me to move my VFG out farther.

I could still pick up a stock 6920 and have it with out making any excuses. The only thing I really need is a magnified optic as my eyesight has deteriorated from when I was younger. The friend that bought my ACOG has two Bushmasters without mods that I will shoot from time to time and I do just fine with them. I don't make excuses and I also do not live pay check to pay check.

If anyone has any questions or comments then post them or PM me, but just remember one thing. I am not sleeping with anyone on this board so I really do not have to justify anything I have done to anyone on here.

Axcelea

07-09-11, 20:39

Cannot say I have a particular list relating to what specific part of a firearm to replace first. I more have a points to be addressed list.

Point 1: Anything that screams foul. As an example I too hate the A2 pistol grip and using it makes a certain finger stick up and it is not a thumbs up.

Point 2: Basic "mission specific" hardware. Slings if it needs one for carrying, hand guard that will work with purposes in mind (be it friendly to mount other accessories, free floating, more sturdy, what ever), optics (this might be addressed during point 1 if the optics were absolutely horrible or none existent but if they were passable for basic purposes then now is the time to upgrade to an RDS, Scope, backup irons, etc), flashlight if needed, etc.

Point 3: Tweaks. The "little" things that can make it better such as better stock, trigger, vertical grip, bi-pod, etc.

It is basically a step by step refinement going towards an end result.

If I had to take a shot at something I would say for a general purpose carbine it is grip, main optic, backup optic, hand guard, sling, vertical grip, flashlight, stock, charging handle, trigger. Hate to try and put an order on them but that is probably it if I had to pass it off as a rule of thumb.

NoveskeFan

07-09-11, 21:37

My first AR was a "gift" from my Dad. A Doublestar mash-up. It's not the best but has chambered almost every round I've fed it.
The first I bought after joining this site was from Grant at G&R. Home defense/training platform.
-Had the Noveske End plate QD sling adapter installed.
-SSA trigger installed by G&R.
-Blue Force sling.
-Magpul items. I really like the ergonomics of the Magpul line. CTR stock, MOE handguards, trigger guard, BUIS.
-Aimpoint PRO. I am thinking of buying an AD mount for it.
-IWC light mount with a Surefire torch.
http://i523.photobucket.com/albums/w354/jamesbaezan/IMG_4630-1.jpgMy Doublestar on the right with my BCM on the left.

nynco

07-09-11, 22:51

My personal preference. I am assuming we are talking about a standard looking carbine?

Sling
BUIS
Grip (I just don't like the stock one and its a cheap fix)
Optic
Stock (CTR or VLTOR)
Free Float fore end. (Troy TRX for me) but to be honest unless its a match grade stainless barrel or I am REALLY pulling on the sling, I would go for a Magpul forend.

Then other fun stuff, BAD lever, better brake/flash hider, grip pod (I know people hate them, but they work as intended)... what ever. Or just save your cash and buy more ammo to feed it.

Preliator

07-10-11, 12:18

I have been watching, reading and learning here for quite some time. This particular thread is actually exactly what I am in the process of doing right now.

Until recently I was a patrol officer for a local PD, I have moved recently to a different entity in a similar line of work and am in the process of putting together a work rifle.

I work in both urban and rural areas, spend time in cars, SUV's, 4 wheel ATV's and snow mobiles in the course of my duties. So I need a good multi purpose patrol/ entry rifle.
I started with a Colt 6920, and here is what I have modded, in the order I had it done.

A. Bare bones necesities to use at work
1) Three point sling (can't carry it on duty with out one, so had to do that first)
2) Magpul P-Mags (my understanding is that the mags are the most common point of failure, I have to have a reliable platform first and formost)
3) lightweight barrel mounted flashlight (half of our ops are in low light, I already had a good quality flashlight available so this was the cheapest way to mount it)

B. Items to create a more efficient and comfortable-to-fire rifle
4) Hogue grip (spend a fair amount of time wearing thick gloves, this seemed to work best with those on)
5) Magpul trigger guard (same reference about the thick gloves)
6) BCM gunfighter charging handle (for me, the first step towards running a more efficient fighting rifle)((plus it took me a while to feel that the $$$ were justified))

C. The next steps (subject to change.... and more $$)
7. BUIS (reduce the weight of the gun a bit and make room for optic)
8. Optic (probably a red dot, improve shot time and hopefully accuracy a bit)
9. light weight free float hand guard (forward grip would be nice to have someday)
10. Surefire M900 series forend light (something a little more versatile and powerfull than my current light.

There it is. again.

Beat Trash

07-10-11, 12:45

My usage is Home Defense, and protection to and from work when things may get interesting. I'm a LEO, but while at work, must use the Departments issued guns.

I started with a Colt 6920, adding the following:

White Light (Currently Surefire G2X)
MI FSB Rail (For mounting the light)
RDS (Aimpoint T-1)
BUIS (Troy folding)
Sling (BFG padded)

I have a spare 6920 that I am going to work on.

The only things I might change with this gun is that I may go with an Aimpoint PRO vs the T-1.

I really dislike the A2 grips, but have learned to deal with them. I may change them out in the future, once I find something I like. The same goes for the stock. I really like the SOPMOD stock, but not enough to spend the money.

I don't consider magazines to be modifying the gun. I'm happy with the 30rd PMAG, and use them both at home, in the car, and at work.

Most new AR owners or potential owners I've shown my gun to at work aren't impressed. It looks rather boring compared to what one usually sees in magazines, on the internet and the media. As anyone working in an urban agency with over 1K officers would attest to, most LEO's don't have a background in firearms.

halo2304

07-10-11, 14:12

Great thread, Rob!

My main gun is a some what modified 6920. If I knew then what I know now, I would do a few things a little differently.

For general purpose use:
1. Grip & trigger guard. I don't really mind the A2 grip, but then I haven't had much time actually using it all day. I like the Magpul MIAD for it's modular approach for sizing as well as storage of items.
2. Optics & BUIS. Aimpoint, enough said. With battery life measured in years, they're tough and reliable and hard to beat. At some point, a fold down rear sight may be desired but until then, cutting down the carry handle would be the way to go.
3. Handguard. I generally don't like the oval shaped standard handguards. For my hands, they seem bulky and a rail or Magpul MOE handguards would facilitate the addition of a light and/or VFG better.
4. Light. Can't hit what you can't see. Anything is better than nothing even if it's just a 6P or G2 in a scope ring or a beat up Surefire M951. Hell, even it's the M900 vertical grip model, while the 6 o'clock possitioned light may cast barrel shadows, it's still a light.
5. Butt stock. Of the standard M4 furnature, the butt stock is the last to be swapped out. I can live with it much more than the A2 grip or oval handguards. That said, I do usually change it out to something more to my liking such as the Magpul CTR or MOE.
6. Sling. This is last only because the supplied sling can be used until the butt stock is swapped out.

Other things to consider: (In no particular order of importance.)
BCM Gunfighter charging handle: I personally like the extra length and agressive grip of the Mod. 4.
B.A.D. Lever. I like it. It lets me hold the bolt open while my support hand is working the charging handle without my firing hand coming off the pistol grip or even the gun coming off my shoulder.
Support Hand Devices. Vertical grips, hand stops, angled fore grips. They may help you control the gun whether it's being fired or not.

justin_247

07-10-11, 14:24

1. Sling
2. Light
3. Optic
4. Whatever else the shooter decides they need next after shooting a ton of ammo and maybe taking a few training classes. For me it was a) rail for another sling mount, VFG, and light, b) stock, c) MOE grip.

LegalAlien

07-10-11, 16:08

Started out with a low/budget optics ready flat-top sporter type of AR - no carry handle, no FSB, no forward assist, no dust cover - in other words, a bare bones strippy.

Here is what I did:-

1. Iron Sights - had to get something to aim with and good old iron sights ala FN FAL (my old reliable from RSA army days) are as good as any to get on paper.

2. Grip - even before I went for my first shoot, I replaced the A2 grip - hated to feel of it. IMO this is THE most critical contact point between you and your gun and if your trigger hand is not comfortable you are going to experience the negative results of this - new grip was Ergo Ambi

3. Stock - just added a Tapco butt pad to the stock to increase the LOP (long arms) and create a somewhat more 'tacky' and 'grippy' feel to the bare back end.

Went and shot the gun - liked the way it performed.
3.1 - added some additional PMAGS!!!!!

then added some gizmos

4. Aimpoint optic - it works for me - was my first exposure to a red dot optic and I can see the clear benefit of doing it this way.

Went a shot the gun - I LOVEEEEE the RDS!!!!

5. Sling - gotta free up my hands if needed to at some point it time
6. Railed fore-end - not essential, but decided to do it because I was planning on adding a light
7. Just recently bought my light attachment and will now add a light as well.

ONly additional item I might add (not even sure if I will actually do it) is a VFG.

The purpose of this AR is/was to get familiar with the platform, plinking and is also my initial home defense rifle (with a hand gun or two). It is a low speed, low drag essential and reliable tool. I am practicing with it and it has not failed me yet. Fortunately I have not had the need to put it to the test in a life-or-death situation.

Failure2Stop

07-10-11, 17:15

If all my current ARs disappeared and all I had was a stock 6920 I would build it to be a GP rifle. To me that means that I will use it to teach, and therefore must be able to do everything from 1 meter to 300 meters against human threats. Not silhouette steel at 300 with all the time in the world to evaluate flag conditions with yard lines, but moving, hiding, murderers that are trying to kill. I will have to train on the weapon regularly for extended duration, so comfort will be a factor as well as pure performance. I try to avoid fads and focus on things that are proven benefits that I recommend others to make once they understand the system and their intent.

In this sense, there are several alterations that I consider to be of equal necessity before the weapon will meet my needs and preferences and are more subject to order by accessibility than necessity, so I will create my list based on cost and degree of improvement than strict "need".

FSP cut extended free-floating HG, light and mount, 2-point sling.
It is an important aspect of efficient broad-spectrum application. Eliminates POI shift, extends support grip, permits mounting of lights/lasers without pushing support hand rearward, permits mounting of rail panels to increase comfort during extended firing schedules.
The light is of obvious necessity, and VCAS slings are widely available enough on the web that it would make sense to wrap them up in the same purchase.

BUIS and low power variable.
I find low powered variables to be the best solution to my use. I can't hit what I can't see, and magnification with precise hold-off ability makes things easier and faster.
The fold-down rear BUIS allows me to mount my optic and if necessary, dump the busted optic and go to the irons for "gotta fight" time.

MIAD or MOE grip and MagPul enhanced trigger guard, possibly throw in a 45* safety.
I hate how the A2 forces hand placement, and the standard trigger guard annoys my middle finger after a while. I much prefer a 45 degree throw, especially if it is an ambi. Not a number 1 upgrade, but I like it.

A5 ass-end.
Helps calm down the carbine gas with the least amount of trial and error.

ACS or SOCOM stock. Not crucial, but a definite improvement in cheek weld over the standard option. If cost was an issue I would wait.

Recoil control muzzle brake, improved trigger applicable to use.
These items do improve performance, but I can do pretty well with the standard items if I have to.

This is me, my use, under someone else's rules. I probably would not choose a 6920 for my purposes.

dookie1481

07-10-11, 17:33

I probably would not choose a 6920 for my purposes.

Meaning you aren't a fan of it in its' stock config., or you tend to build what you prefer from the bottom up?

rob_s

07-10-11, 17:35

polymorpheous

07-10-11, 18:37

Home defense, training/practice.

I started out with a basic M4 carbine, (sans the FGC of course). 14.5" barrel with pinned A2X, stock handguards, grip, and buttstock. Carry handle.

1st thing I bought for it was a M2S sling for it. My endplate I installed on my AP lower had a loop on the left side. I also forewent the basic trigger guard for a Magpul enhanced trigger guard.

Shot the hell out of it like this for a summer.

I switched out the BCM stock for a Vltor mod-stock. In my opinion it's the best after market stock out there. I know a lot of people like the LMT SOPMOD. Nice kit, but the Vltor is shorter. And I wanted this carbine to be as short as I could legally get it without a stamp.

Next I bought an Aimpoint CompM2 off of Barf, and replaced the carry handle with a MI SPLP BUIS.

The grip was the next to go. Bought a full MIAD kit from some vendor that was clearing them out for $22 plus shipping. Ordered a spare bolt grip plug and bought a spare bolt off of the Barf. This was about the time I was putting together my BCM middy, so I ordered the rest of my bolt parts from Grant. Modded the core right away to take the cam and retaining pin.

One item I had a hard time tracking down was a DD Omega rail in the discontinued FDE. I finally found one, again on the Barf, (sensing a pattern here?) Bought some FDE ladders for it.

During the holiday season last year I took advantage of the BFG 50% off camo green sale. Ordered a VCAS and bought a Noveske QD endplate. Ditched the M2S. And I obviously bought some QD swivels.

I also bought a VTAC light mount for a Surefire Z2 my brother gave me after his combat tour in Taji, Iraq. Around this time I also switch out the MI SPLP BUIS for a Troy FDE BUIS.

The final thing I purchaced for my defensive carbine was a TD stubby VFG which now houses a small bottle of SLiP.

I finished the receivers in coyote brown Alumahyde. A bought a BAD lever for it.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5230/5600629890_e3ce224b23_b.jpg

I'm happy with the carbine. (Other than the ARMS mount which will get replaced by a LaRue mount. Low priority right now.)
It's a bit heavy but it balances ok thanks to the Omega being so light.
I got a bunch of different colored XTM panels for cheap that I'm going to play with.
Other than that, I can't think of anything else it needs, other than more mags and ammo!

iCarbine

07-10-11, 18:37

For home defense and general use:

1. Pistol grip - MOE and Magpul trigger guard for comfort
2. Rear sight - MBUS w/ A2 FSB - decent combo of cost/quality
3. Handguard - MOE for easy ability to mount white light
4. White light - Surefire G2L in VTAC mount using Magpul cantilever rail for simple, cost-effective solution
5. Sling and mount - MS2 and Troy mount preferred due to simplicity for me
6. RDS - Aimpoint H1 w/ Larue LT 660 mount, gold standard

Basically on a carbine, I have no need for anything other than a simple white light, satisfactory sling and red dot.

I bought an M&P15 before I knew about the chart. I chose the MOE model to minimize the items I'd need to purchase and install later. Assuming I'd known about the chart ahead of time, I would buy a BCM middy in a MOE-type configuration.

superr.stu

07-10-11, 19:34

From my understanding of the op and the following explanatory posts, working from a basic initial setup (i.e. colt 6920) for a defensive / training carbine (though feasibly following the same template any scenario) I would...

-First establish my rail / handguard solution. Reason being that there is a good chance that this will dictate my final iron sight, light, sling, and fore-grip.
-If I needed to make a change to the irons I would do that next so that I at least have a usable sight set up.
-If this gun is going to have a light on it I would work out the light and mount for that next. I feel that any go-to gun should have a light.
-From here I would probably get my stock, ch, and pistol-grip, being a couple of the easier changes I can probably do them fairly comfortably after working out the above.
-Now that I'm fairly close the the final outcome I would set up my sling solution. Preferably something involving QD's at the stock, rear of receiver, and early on the rail for flexibility.
-Followed by whatever optic is going to be used.
-Lastly I would get whatever vert-grip, handstop, or bi-pod that might go into the build. I think that these parts don't necessarily define the build, and are more often subject to change or evolution.

Also I should probably admit that I did not follow this on the 14.5 middy I'm building at the moment. I have a good Idea on almost everything going into the gun except I haven't been able to pin down what light that I'm going to use. Though I will have that worked out before it fires the first round. It was also more of a batch build that was pretty well defined far in advance of getting any of the hardware.

GrumpyM4

07-10-11, 20:18

I think we've done this before but typically it's been a newer shooter looking for advice and they tend to unhinge, or they are older threads and I think it would be interesting to start fresh.

I personally aim for a rifle that I can take to training, plink with, teach new shooters with, use for HD if necessary, or even just pack around in the back of the truck should I feel that I *may* need something bigger then a pistol for whatever reason.

That being said, here goes.

Bring home a new 6920, take it out of the box and when done with the happy dance, mods go as follows to make a carbine for all around use.

Sling. A good sling for a rifle is like a good holster for a pistol. Even the really good ones can be had for relitivly cheap compared to most AR accessories.

Shoot the gun when I can, how I can.

The next time the cash can be scrounged, a good tac-light and some sort of solid mount either to the handguard or to the barrel ore even the FSB. I prefer Surefire but have also had really good results with TLR-1's, especially the LED models. The rifle already comes with perfectly acceptable irons, but if you can't see what you're aiming at, even a high end RDS sight is worthless.

Continue shooting rifle when able.

The next time a company bonus comes through, an obscure aunt dies and wills you her '85 gremlin which you sell for $800 to the weird old guy down the street that everyone things is a pedo, or you simply manage to save up the cash, a quality RDS and solid BUIS. I personally am a big Aimpoint fan boy and have been since the 90's. Never did like the Eothingys, but it's a personal issue and not everybody elses. And get both the sight and the BUIS at the same time, or simply cut down the CH. Don't EVER use a rifle without backup Irons.

Keep shooting.

Eventually, you get a raise, save the cash, find grandpas old WWII foot locker with a bunch of gold teeth in a bag, whatever, if you REALLY feel the need, get a rail system, swap out the plastic stock if you want, maybe get a TD grip, a MIAD, maybe a VFG or an AFG if you wanna look cool, etc. etc. At this point you're just dropping cash into little personal items that don't make you a more capable shooter. Now you're simply modding the ergos to better match what you consider comfortable, add space to attach more do-hickeys to the front, or modify where exactly the sling attaches to the rifle.

All things that a shooter can be perfectly capable doing without, but are nice to fiddle-**** with on occasion.

That's the order in which I would mod, how I would mod, and how I have modded in the past. Usually the last stage is the longest as new products come out on the market and I like to test things on occasion, so really, that part rarely ends. There are a few rifles I have that get in a specific configuration and stay that way, but even then rarely forever.

Re-cap: Gotta be able to carry said rifle. Lots of shooting happens in the dark and you gotta be able to see the target before you can shoot it. RDS sights help you be a faster and more accurate shot at those faster speeds (I say that because on the static range and taking my time, i'm actually more accurate with Irons, just no where near as fast).

After that, the rest is gravy and based on personal preference, not actual valure added equipmemt (in my personal opinion)

halo2304

07-11-11, 03:09

sadmin

07-11-11, 09:48

1) Add small light / FSB mount. As this weapon will primarily be served in a HD role for me, this item has to be first for liability concerns & obvious life saving advantages for having it.

2) A2 / Trigger guard. Most important ergonomic change for me; my fingers are long, so my hand eats the A2. Same trigger guard issue others have mentioned, my middle knuckle grinds on it.

3) Stock. Second must have ergo change. Better cheek weld equates to quicker response time, better sight picture.

To me, in the purposed HD scenario, those 3 items can potentially effect the outcome of the scenario the most, so they get attention. The following are further preferences and less personal necessities.

4) Shave FSB, add FF rail.
- prefer: rail, further hand extension, light mount options rail can provide.

5) Folding BUIS
- prefer folding rear with RDS. Would like to shed the weight of the carry handle on the 6920

6) RDS
- The benefits have been covered ad nauseam; why it lands in 6th position though? I took a class with Aaron Roberts and I really took to shooting "out of the notch" 10 yards and in. That distance should be close to the confines of my HD scenario. Just me...im aware of the benefits / risk to not having an RDS.

7) Sling
- All my guns have slings, all guns should have slings.

8) A5
- What can I say, im a believer! My 14.5 midlength feels too comfortable with it, its like im getting a massage from a kitten.

9) FH
- Something with more FH potential than the birdcage.

Doc Safari

07-11-11, 10:13

I started with a BCM Carbine. I need it for ranch defense and varmint control (both the four-legged and two-legged kind).

The first modification was to add the carry handle. I get teased about being stuck in the Sixties for it, but it's handy for me. After checking my fence line in the heat for a couple of hours I have to hike back to where I've left my vehicle. I often get tired of wearing the weapon. I appreciate the carry handle and use it as such.

I zeroed the rifle according to one of the improved battlesight zeroes. This left the front sight cranked up enough to be wobbly. I replaced it with the taller Bushmaster sight post.

EDITED TO ADD: I switch back and forth between a small latch BCM Gunfighter charging handle and the normal mil-spec one. The medium latch that came with the rifle snags on things too much.

The next modification was to install the front side sling swivel to make the BCM more like the Colt 6920, since I like to carry the rifle at port arms. I tied down the original sling swivel with a couple of black zip ties. At some point I will probably switch to a Vickers sling, but I'm trying to get by on the cheap for now because I'm in the process of acquiring more magazines and ammo. I am also looking into some training classes and how far away I have to go to get them.

I installed a plain Jane military sling for now, and in keeping with wanting to keep things cheap for now, the rest of my acquisitions are more gear-involved.

I already wear good hiking and/or SWAT boots, so no need to get anything else there. You will laugh, but I bought one of those twenty-dollar PVC mag vests that is probably for airsoft. It's heavy duty material and lightweight. I appears to be for AK mags though and so I will be installing magpuls on all my mags because they sit low in the pouches. This setup is goofy I admit but it will work for me until I have a chance to study up on what vest I really want.

Other than that, I lean toward replacing the front handguards with a railed one. I intend on installing a light first and later an RDS. I'm going to take my time and really consider before spending the money. In my situation I'm also resisting the temptation to say that I need night vison also. I definitely do not want to spend money on something like that.

The pic below is sort of my working concept. I'm somewhat reluctant to buy the Eotech because the Aimpoint is better, but then I would have to ditch the carry handle.

rob_s

07-11-11, 10:47

Also, people are mentioning certain brands for a reason; they know and trust them.

I don't know that I agree that it's the reason, but I do find it interesting that almost no one can help themselves.

Renegade

07-11-11, 10:52

I think we've done this before but typically it's been a newer shooter looking for advice and they tend to unhinge, or they are older threads and I think it would be interesting to start fresh.

My advice to a new shooter is to shoot the gun as is, stock.

Only make mods as you see a need based on shooting experience, and then only make mods based on trying someone else's gun that has the mod.

Magic_Salad0892

07-11-11, 10:55

I don't know that I agree that it's the reason, but I do find it interesting that almost no one can help themselves.

Or they've found certain equipment that works best for them.

rob_s

07-11-11, 11:03

My advice to a new shooter is to shoot the gun as is, stock.

Only make mods as you see a need based on shooting experience, and then only make mods based on trying someone else's gun that has the mod.

I'm not asking the new shooter, I'm asking the experienced shooters. Try not to focus on one portion of one sentence and miss the trees.

Renegade

07-11-11, 11:31

I'm not asking the new shooter, I'm asking the experienced shooters. Try not to focus on one portion of one sentence and miss the trees.

Sentence #2:

Only make mods as you see a need based on shooting experience, and then only make mods based on trying someone else's gun that has the mod.

I myself do not see the purpose of buying a gun only to go out and swap out most of the factory parts. My M4/6920 style gun has only 1 part swap/modification/upgrade, a SOPMOD stock.

The only other parts changed were to accommodate already owned purpose accessories - a new FH so I can use my existing SPR/M4 Silencer, and a new rail to use my existing PEQ15.

So put me in the limited mod camp.

aaron_c

07-11-11, 11:47

I'm not able to try a sling on an AR15, but I'm still going to get one. Did the same with the night sights on my FNX. Does that mean I'm doing it wrong? ;)

JW1069

07-11-11, 12:09

Great thread. It's easy to get caught up in the euphoria of a new purchase, but so many accessory choices/upgrades can fall under "personal preference" and the why part gets left behind many times.

My first AR was a basic LMT 14.5" carbine. After plenty of range time and some classes, this is what I've settled into for HD/training/CQB type rifles:

1. Red dot optic. I simply shoot better/faster with a RDS than irons. Either an Aimpoint micro or EOTech XPS gets mounted right away. For cost savings, a PA micro dot is on the M&P 15-22 plinker.

2. Geissele SSA trigger. The first one spoiled me. :D For the sake of consistency among my rifles, each one gets a SSA.

3. Magpul stock. This could even go first for me since NY requires any post ban rifle to have a 'fixed' stock. The MOE and ACS (initial version) are preferred for their quality/comfort and I'll select one or the other based on the balance I'm looking for on a particular rifle.

4. Miad grip. I prefer this to the A2 for comfort purposes so one gets added right away.

5. Ambi selector. LMT's switch has proven the smoothest for me, so far, but I'll try a BAD-ASS on the next build. I do shoot rifles lefty and this is my primary ambi upgrade. It would rate higher if I thought it was a "must have" component. As is, I can still shoot the rifle just fine with a standard selector.

6. BCM Gunfighter. I prefer the extra real estate to grab when reaching over the top (as a lefty shooter) of the medium latch. The GF seems built to withstand the extra torque from a lefty too. IMO this is a great upgrade for the money and usually gets ordered with the upper at the same time. A mil spec CH suffices in the meantime.

7. MOE handguard. If it's a basic upper, it gets a MOE hg for the feel and mounting capabilities. The standard fatty hg's pale in comparison.

8. MOE MVG/RVG or LaRue FUG. Rifle dependent. Tried and didn't like the AFG. A VFG gives me the consistent reference point I want.

9. Sling. Currently us a MS2 and BFG VCAS padded with pb's. My entire sling setup continues to be a work in progress.

10. Surefire weapon light. Last item added since I already have a "Go To" HD rifle and backup with lights. If this were my only HD rifle, the light would rank much higher as I feel a quality weapon light is essential for HD (moreso than a sling).

matemike

07-11-11, 12:20

Hunting...mostly from sitting in a deer blind. But want spot and stalk options or walking/brush gun capabilities as well, all in one gun

1. Sling= easier carrying, climbing up and down ladder stands
2. Rubberized Grip= better ergonomics, slip resistant
3. Fixed power 4X scope = ditch the carry handle/rear sight after I have a couple kills under my belt, see what acquires targets fast enough for me, but still allows longer shots to be taken from a rest position in a deer blind
4. quad rail = sole purpose answered next...
5. simple "broom handle" vertical fore grip = try more free hand shooting, this will help to increase control and accuracy
6. butt stock
7. drop in quality trigger group
8. rail covers
9. light

BC98

07-11-11, 14:45

Starting with basic Colt 6920 carbine
Primary Intended Use: Plinking/general range fun
Secondary Uses: Home defense, carbine training

1) New grip/trigger guard: Having a solid, comfortable grip with the firing hand is important to me in order to maintain comfort for shooting.
2) Red dot sight: I do believe that irons are important, but it's easier (for a new guy/gal) to get solid practice and good hits with a zeroed RDS.
3) Stock: I have cheekweld issues with a stock M4 part and prefer a more solid platform.
4) Light/mount: Essential for HD role. I would use one of the FSB mounts available and a very bright light.
5) Sling: An essential for carbine training.
6) Folding rear sight: I honestly don't shoot irons much (enough?) and have some mental focus problem with a fixed rear in my vision.

At this point, I would recommend shooting the gun enough to become comfortable with it and start to determine what shortcomings the above setup has for the individual.
I am essentially up to this point with some minor deviations so here is how I plan to proceed.

7) New handguard/rail system: Unsure whether I'll use standard 4-rail system or one of the tube-style systems but I would like a way to further extend my support arm as well as run a fore grip of some kind and experiment with different positions for the light.
8) Muzzle brake: I like to make guns louder :D. Seriously, though, I have noticed a definite reduction in sight movement while shooting rapidly and I like that.
9) Heavier buffer: I like to tinker and the benefits of a sytem using a rifle weight buffer appeal to me (i.e. increased reliability, increased "smoothness", etc.). This is based on what has been reported on some threads on this site but I would like to try it for myself.
10) Barrel: Again, I can't leave well enough alone so I would look at switching barrels to find the most accurate hard-use barrel that I could. I don't like sitting at a bench punching holes all day but when I do shoot a gun at 100 yards (or whatever) I would love to be able to see one ragged hole but still be able to run it through a high round count carbine course.

Iraq Ninja

07-11-11, 15:55

Failure2stop made a great post and I agree 100%.

I am quiet surprised (and a bit shocked) by some of the comments in regards to self defense mods, if they are truly based on the users perception of what they need.

To me, any self defense rifle mod must allow me to kill people quicker than they can kill me. This is my first priority.

A pistol grip and trigger guard are way down my list. Maybe I am a bit old fashioned, but we didn't bitch about these things 30 years ago in the military very much. I wasn't even allowed to use a sling in my unit. Are you really better fighting with a magpul trigger guard? Change out the charging handle? LOL

Comfort items are not on my short list. The most discomforting thing I have felt while armed was getting shot. Everything else I can generally work around.

If the function of an item dramatically improves my ability to kill things, then I want it.

My rifle is not a Barbie Doll.

My first choice is an optic. I can't think of any other modification to our military or LEO rifles that has allowed people to hit and kill things better than the addition of an aimpoint or ACOG. It was a major game changer, and resisted by many in the military.

I can deal with a bit of discomfort. I cannot deal with missing a target.

For the home, a flashlight is high on my list, and way before a sling or trigger mods.

Wiggity

07-11-11, 15:57

My intended use is hd/varmit

1. light
2. sling
3. grip
4. aimpoint

Preliator

07-11-11, 16:42

IraqNinja, I agree with your approach of fighting rifle first and foremost- but there are other things to be considered.

In keeping with the original post, first there is a budget to be considered, not alot of people can afford to purchase a $1100 - $1300 rifle and then throw a $400+ optic on first thing (as is my situation)

Second, my agency (and many others) requires a sling to be able to carry on duty as a LEO. In the same light, there is alot to be said for a LEO vs. a soldier to be able to positively identify both the target and the surroundings prior to shooting - in a low light environment that means that a flashlight is pretty arguably more important than an optic.

The bottom line, and I think the purpose of this particular thread is to show a variety of different needs for AR platform rifles, and show the mindsets behind what order people outfit their rifles.

Semper Fi.

OP please correct me if I am way off base.

GrumpyM4

07-11-11, 17:23

jonconsiglio

07-11-11, 17:31

My intended use is training, some teaching and defense. Typically when I buy a new upper or rifle, it's either a replacement or I buy the things I need with it or I already have them at this point. Using the guidelines of this thread though and I was making a change at a time, here's what I'd do....

First thing will be a the light. I use the light quite often and it's a regular part of my training. I can't hit what I can't see and the last time I needed my gun, the light played a bigger part than expected.

Now I'll need an optic. Most likely an RDS or low power variable. Whatever I'm shooting, I shoot faster with a red dot.

Next will be a sling. Not only because I need the retention, but because it's an integral part of my training - transitions, for example.

- At this point, I'd be ok, but for me to squeeze the absolute most out of my rifle, there's a couple more things I'd like to add...

I'll most likely switch out the stock and use the A5 receiver extension, as a better, more consistent cheek weld gets me on target faster in most cases. Maybe I shouldn't say faster as a better way of saying it would be that I'm sure of my cheek weld sooner which allows me to fire my first shot sooner. I've used the A5 on at least 7 or 8 different uppers now (not all mine) and every single time there's been some sort of benefit whether it's slowing the cyclic rate or just simply altering the feel of the rifle and allowing slighted faster follow up shots.

I'm adding a rail of some sort and stubby vert grip, most likely a 12" model either with a low pro gas block or a cut out. Not only does this allow me to reach out farther on the rail to control my rifle even more, especially allowing me to stop on target and not oversewing it, it allows me numerous more options for my grip, for barricade support and mounting options of my light, lasers and vert grip.

Maybe I'll add a new grip for the same reason as others, or at the least a gapper, though that doesn't fix the thickness of the grip itself. Now, the only reason I'll change this is because I can and because it's more comfortable after long periods of time. It's not a must like the RDS and light.

I've tried and owned all different kinds of set ups and as much as I appreciate a simple rifle with a standard hand guard or an MOE hand guard, it doesn't give me the advantages that a longer, railed hand guard does, especially on my do-everything rifle. If we were talking a couple rifles, a simple, light rifle would be great, but that's not the case here.

I'm looking at this as my everything rifle. The rifle I'll train with in bright sunlight and pitch darkness, indoors and outdoors, what I'll teach with and what I'll use to defend myself. For me, the light and red dot give me a distinct advantage in a fight. The sling can in a way too I guess, but that's just because I'm used to training with one. The other changes just allow me more options and to tailor it a bit to what I like. The only necessities are the light and the optic.

Jonathan

Axcelea

07-11-11, 17:39

I don't know, although optics are one of the most important things they arguably can take a back burner for a basic rifle since something like a 6920 is pretty ready for what Joe Shmoe needs where they just might be better off making the handling better/getting it more comfortable so that they train more and better, I suppose an optic in the same regards helps negate Joe Shmoe needing as much practice as well. For a precision platform optics will probably be a top priority bar nothing.

Hard doing this in hind sight since most people with experience know a lot about what they want and are going with really small time frames of first mod to last anyway.

DWood

07-11-11, 18:02

My rifle is for personal defense and training. My approach is apparently a little different. My basic rifle carries an optic as a minimum, before all else, so I don't consider it an "add on". They are "one".

I applied the question as "what items would you add to your carbine first" to include items the carbine did not ship with, rather than what factory items would you change out. For me, the factory items get changed after my main add on requirements are met. Anyway, just my opinion.

Three uppers; 16" BCM with S & B Short Dot, LMT 10.5" with Comp M-4, and 7" Adams Arms, NIB no optic, never fired. Two lowers; both LMT with single stage triggers, ERGO grips, and Sopmod stocks. The starting points were pretty good and that really is a big part of the equation for answering this question. My base rifles did not need a lot to "go to work".

After a rifle with an optic, I look at a light, a vertical grip, and a sling, in that order. I find that other things may need to be added, like a rail system, to accomodate some of these "basics", but they are only ancillary add ons. They facilitate a main objective.

So:
1. Rifle w/ optic (base of operations)
2. light
3. short vertical grip
4. sling

1 and 2 are absolute and 3 and 4 could swap (or wait); I could do battle in my main hallway without the sling or vertical grip.

I don't consider changing a part for a part an upgrade; that is a CTR instead of a basic stock is just replacing a part because of preference. I'm not saying I don't have CTRs or MIADs, but I am saying they are 1 for 1 replacements depending on preference and don't really change the function.

Seems like most of what's listed here is just replacements for factory parts. It's easy to lose perspective of what really matters most.

JSGlock34

07-11-11, 19:38

My first choice is an optic. I can't think of any other modification to our military or LEO rifles that has allowed people to hit and kill things better than the addition of an aimpoint or ACOG. It was a major game changer, and resisted by many in the military.

"The ACOG mounted on the M16 service rifle has proven to be the biggest improvement in lethality for the Marine infantryman since the introduction of the M1 Garand in WWII." --Major General J.N. Mattis

Agreed. The optic is useful throughout the full spectrum of rifle employment. Day or night, near or far, the optic improves the ability of the marksman to hit the target dramatically over iron sights. The light is of utility only during periods of low light/darkness at close range, or inside buildings. And there is a training aspect to the light too - adding white light to a situation is not always the best tactical decision - whereas even the novice user will realize the benefits of a RDS (or other combat optic such as the ACOG) immediately.

This is something of an academic argument, as nothing prevents the serious user from adding both at the same time, and the light is an important addition, particularly for home defense use. But if a RDS and a flashlight were on a table and I was told I could only pick one, I'll take the optic.

Iraq Ninja

07-11-11, 19:46

Good rebuttals...

But I purposely didn't mention home defense specifically, but general self defense. I knew if I limited my list to home defense (though it is arguably the most likely use of the weapon by a civilian) I run the risk of putting myself in a niche outside of my situation.

I wanted to address the broader use of the weapon as a self defense tool.

In a strictly home defense situation, a light is obviously a priority

In terms of financial constraints, I missed that part until I read Rob's clarification. I don't know what to say, other than I would find a way to equip my weapon correctly. If that means doing away with other parts of my lifestyle, then I would get it done. I suspect such constraints are based on the perceived "need of use" for many folks with limited income.

A used Comp M2 aimpoint optic is an excellent and affordable option.

Lastly, don't confuse shooting on the range with an optic, with being in a gunfight with an optic.

Magic_Salad0892

07-11-11, 19:49

JSGlock34

07-11-11, 20:31

But this comes from an intended use perspective, if I were hunting bad guys for a living, I'd probably pick optic first.

But being that I'm more likely to use my gun indoors, and with little light: I pick light first, as in an apartment building 90% of it is contact distance, unless I'm in my (short) hallway.

Excellent point, and I should clarify my own thoughts. I tend to think of the rifle in the military context, where it is the issue weapon for long walks in the woods and engagement ranges from 0-500 meters. As such, I look at the optic as a modification that enhances the use of the weapon at all ranges, day or night.

I consider the sling a necessary addition - most users haven't had to live with a rifle as a constant companion for a week of patrolling. You need to use your hands for other things, and the sling allows you to do so.

Specifying home defense use, where you aren't carrying your rifle for days at a time and the engagement distance is extremely short and most likely in low light, the flashlight is a critical addition.

dfsutton

07-11-11, 21:23

For me:

1. Replace stock with Magpul ACS. Just really like the stability and cheek weld.

2. Replace grip with MOE or Ergo. Never have liked the feel of the standard grip. Either of the 2 are an improvement.

3. Noveske QD endplate. Good place to attach a sling.

4. 2 point sling to carry the rifle.

5. Optic. Either a RDS or a low-Power variable.

6. Magpul triggerguard. Because it looks cool :D

Jellybean

07-12-11, 13:49

If all my current ARs disappeared and all I had was a stock 6920 I would build it to be a GP rifle. To me that means that I will use it to teach, and therefore must be able to do everything from 1 meter to 300 meters against human threats......
In this sense, there are several alterations that I consider to be of equal necessity before the weapon will meet my needs and preferences and are more subject to order by accessibility than necessity, so I will create my list based on cost and degree of improvement than strict "need".

FSP cut extended free-floating HG, light and mount, 2-point sling.
It is an important aspect of efficient broad-spectrum application. Eliminates POI shift, extends support grip, permits mounting of lights/lasers without pushing support hand rearward, permits mounting of rail panels to increase comfort during extended firing schedules.
The light is of obvious necessity, and VCAS slings are widely available enough on the web that it would make sense to wrap them up in the same purchase.

BUIS and low power variable.
I find low powered variables to be the best solution to my use. I can't hit what I can't see, and magnification with precise hold-off ability makes things easier and faster.
The fold-down rear BUIS allows me to mount my optic and if necessary, dump the busted optic and go to the irons for "gotta fight" time.

MIAD or MOE grip and MagPul enhanced trigger guard, possibly throw in a 45* safety.
I hate how the A2 forces hand placement, and the standard trigger guard annoys my middle finger after a while. I much prefer a 45 degree throw, especially if it is an ambi. Not a number 1 upgrade, but I like it.....

ACS or SOCOM stock. Not crucial, but a definite improvement in cheek weld over the standard option. If cost was an issue I would wait..................

This.
Obviously I omitted a few things to fit my own ideas, but otherwise exactly what I was going to post myself (just said better and pre-typed.:D)
The only other change I'd make is I'd personally replace the optic with a regular RDS for general purpose use. Although I could be wrong....

Otherwise, these are the exact same conclusions I came to, and steps I took after using my first rifle, and researching my second here.

GrumpyM4

07-12-11, 16:32

Excellent point, and I should clarify my own thoughts. I tend to think of the rifle in the military context, where it is the issue weapon for long walks in the woods and engagement ranges from 0-500 meters.

Given that *most* current engagements take place in 300 meters or less (I have also seen that listed as 150 meters or so for urban areas such as Iraq, but I can't remember where I saw this stat) and that a very large portion of modern military action takes place in built up areas with lots of buildings and rooms, at what point does the need to be able to see in differentially lit areas(kicking in doors and going from a bright outside to a dimly lit inside, or running night ops) become more important then an optic?

Assuming of course that you had to choose between the two, but that is a situation that I hope our Mil folks never have to deal with.

That being said, this thread intended purpose is to help folks figure out a new rifle, not necessarily set it up for "mil" purposes and the fact is that 7 or 8 out of 10 people in this country live in urban areas rather then rural areas, so any expected engagement distance will be much shorter then 500m, and the need to be able to see in dark places becomes very important. In my opinion, more important then optics.

DWood

07-12-11, 19:13

Seems to me the majority of this discussion comes down to RDS VS light. Since an "engagement" at my house may or may not occur in darkness, I prioritize a RDS. As IG pointed out a Comp M2 can be had for relatively cheap and is a very viable RDS.

Guess I'm fortunate in that I can afford both at the same time so it didn't come down to one over the other. Then again it's easy to drop $$$$ on the "latest" fad light and lots are doing it. My lights are $80 Nova Tacs (on sale from the much hated Botach) in VTAC mounts. $110 for the entire set up.

If you really look you can find a RDS and decent light/mount for $400. Most on these forums can afford that.

I would make the case that the minimum is an RDS AND a light/mount and everything else can wait.

Black Jeep

07-12-11, 19:30

For home defense and range shooting:

How I have progressed through this so far...
1. Magpul MBUS rear sight - gun didn't come with rear irons
2. VCAS padded sling
3. Magpul trigger guard - I like having the room and it isn't going to break the bank
4. MOE handguards
5. MI rails and light set up
6. Maybe an optic some day...

If I were doing it over again, I would move the handguards and light setup to second on the list, still behind the irons. However, I think I'd like a different set of rear irons that included elevation adjustment.

Wiggity

07-12-11, 20:01

I got the light before the optic

Shawn.L

07-12-11, 20:19

I don't know that I agree that it's the reason, but I do find it interesting that almost no one can help themselves.

There are some things I'll mention brand for as just saying "add a RDS" doesnt mean "Add aimpoint" . If this is for a house gun (which is what I'll speak to) my main reason for the Aimpoint is the batt life and therefore its ability to be always on, so skipping the brand name wont adress the "why" portion.

So, House gun, starting with a 6920

2-point quick adjust sling, padded
If I was limited by funds I would go to a WML , a tailcap momentary activated light in a cheap mount attached to a rail section bolted to the handguard will do.
Otherwise I need a decent rail for the light, and I prefer a slightly extended support ahnd grip, so next would be a quality low profile and light weight rail that extendeds past the FSB.... OR... a low pro gas block and a tube type top only rail at 13". Ive found 13" gives me room for grip and to put my light and FS past my grip in places where I can acticate them.
With the rail in place either a pistol style WML or I would prefer an tailcap acticated small single mode light in an offset mount.
Aimpoint optic , prefer H-1 for size / weight (will train with house gun) and cost

Changing the stock grip and buttstock are prob some of the easiest and cheapest mod's for personal prefernce, but I left them last as for me they are lowest as far as priority.

JSGlock34

07-12-11, 20:28

Given that *most* current engagements take place in 300 meters or less (I have also seen that listed as 150 meters or so for urban areas such as Iraq, but I can't remember where I saw this stat) and that a very large portion of modern military action takes place in built up areas with lots of buildings and rooms, at what point does the need to be able to see in differentially lit areas(kicking in doors and going from a bright outside to a dimly lit inside, or running night ops) become more important then an optic?

Assuming of course that you had to choose between the two, but that is a situation that I hope our Mil folks never have to deal with.

That being said, this thread intended purpose is to help folks figure out a new rifle, not necessarily set it up for "mil" purposes and the fact is that 7 or 8 out of 10 people in this country live in urban areas rather then rural areas, so any expected engagement distance will be much shorter then 500m, and the need to be able to see in dark places becomes very important. In my opinion, more important then optics.

I have no illusions that most modern military engagements with a rifle occur at less than 200 meters, though I've read AARs of much further engagements out in Afghanistan. In the urban environment, where a partially obscured threat may present a fleeting target to engage, an optic may prove decisive. In my experience, the RDS is far superior to irons in engaging moving targets.

But I digress - my point is simply that the optic is useful throughout the entire spectrum of the rifle's performance envelope. From close range to long distance, day or night, indoors or outdoors, it will improve the marksman's ability to deliver effective fire. Unlike almost every other accessory discussed, the optic makes a substantial contribution every time you pull the trigger.

As you said though, a modern combat weapon should and can have both an optic and a light, and thankfully this is a theoretical debate outside of contrived scenarios where we are limited to one or another.

GrumpyM4

07-12-11, 21:44

I would make the case that the minimum is an RDS AND a light/mount and everything else can wait.

Absolute agreement here.

As you said though, a modern combat weapon should and can have both an optic and a light, and thankfully this is a theoretical debate outside of contrived scenarios where we are limited to one or another.

No argument here either.

Like Rob said at one point that he didn't want this to turn into a minimalist "KISS" rifle argument like on TOS. My version of "KISS" has always been a gun with an RDS and a light.

Fobar

07-12-11, 23:27

Although I’m not particularly new to the AR, I am new here although I lurked for quite a while. I came here to learn and I learning I am thanks to everyone here.

I shoot an AR for the fun of it and because I like shooting. Unlike most here I do not shoot for a profession, but for fun and I probably only shoot a 1,000 or so rounds a year from my AR. I have always like handguns and have burned up 10s, if not 100s of thousands of 22s, 357s, 44s and 45s over the past 30 years.

As I am not particularly wealthy I only have one AR. And I am not going to name any names because it will be frowned upon. What can I say is I bought it just before the ban was passed and I don’t think this site existed then. It works, has never failed to go bang and that is all I ask of it.

This site is the main reason I am working on making it two, a piece at a time. I put together a DD lower about 6 months ago using a DD parts kit and an Emod buttstock. My v5 DD upper will be here tomorrow. :D

That being said, any AR I have is for general purpose and if necessary defense.

The very first thing I added to that first AR and will to this one is a tritium front sight post. If I can’t find my front sight in the dark, I am not going to be very effective.

Second was a sling.

Third an enhanced trigger guard and an Ergo grip.

Then a light.

I really haven’t gone any further than that with it.

I already have everything above for the new one. I will be adding some kind of optic to it. I’ve not used a dot sight of any kind before, so I feel better with mounting a 1x4 powered scope. I don’t like the idea of spending a few hundred dollars on something only to find out I don’t like it and I have a Redfield 1x4 that I will try first.

R Moran

07-13-11, 10:09

Not a response to any one particular person, but this wasn't intended to be a "build your best 6920" thread, so the actual make/model of parts is secondary at best.

R_Moran's post, while missing the "why" came the closest to the intent, and a few others came close.

Also, the idea was intended to be "one piece at a time", FWIW.

In spite of not meeting the intent, I think the thread can still be a good repository for newbies starting out looking to prioritize their purchases. Thanks guys.

Sorry Rob, was at work and wanted to make it quick, then kinda forgot about it...

I gotta say, I have not read every post on this thread, but F2S, IGZ, and IraqNinja make excellent point's, that are hard to argue with. As most have said, we would make as many changes as we can at once, have an idea of what we want before we buy the gun, etc.etc.

Having said that, with the criteria Rob set out, and I believe his objective, was to provide a some direction for a new shooter.

Again, my carbine would be for CQB/general purpose rifle. As INinja alluded to, I want a gun that works from 0-250mtrs, or so. After all, that's the reason the AR exists.

The why's? After thinking about it, I may modify my order of things, but, for now I'll go with the original order..

Sling:
About the only cliche thats out there, that I agree with is the holster analogy. I've been stuck in units, where a sling was not allowed. It made life ****in difficult, just gettin in the chow line was a PITA.
I may move the priority, as the 6920 comes with a sling, it is functional, slung muzzle down, better so, with the addition of an old school top sling adapter, or some 550 cord. But, no where near as usable as a Vickers/Victory or VTAC, all of which are inexpensive, available, and can be added with out any additional hardware.

Light:
I believe wholeheartedly in the need for a light on any fighting gun. The 6920, does not come with one. Inexpensive options are all over the place. An old "Classic" from SureFire is adequate. A SureFire barrel mount or one of the tri-rail types will work. I've been using a SideArmor(?) tri-rail on my work gun, and while I don't like it, its better then no light. A GG&G SLiC mount of the MI FSB mount are also good options. Hell, I've got a old school SureFire that mounts to the FSP, puta the lamp at the 12,and dog legs the body around to the right/3.
What I don't agree with, is relying on the strength of the plastic hand guards to retain the light.

Optic:
Lower on the list, only because the gun comes with a means to aim it. W/O rehashing the irons vs. optics debate, irons can be used. I prefer a red dot, everyday/all day, but, I can use the irons, until money becomes available. A buis is included in this addition.

Ergos type stuff:
Lower because the gun comes with usable, albeit not optimal hand guard, pistol grip, butt stock, & charging handle.
- I could just as easily grind down the A2 grip and be good, know a few who've done it. But with the price of PG's, why bother. I like the Tango Down. The gap has never bothered me, but it does most, and eliminating doesn't hurt anything.
-The standard butt stock is OK enough. The MOE offers a non slip pad, and better sling attachments. The SOPMOD offer the same, and "better" cheekweld.
- The handguard, will dovetail into my next mod.

I've just installed both a small and medium gunfighter, and will see how they go. Been using the badger gen 2, and PRI, they make operating the gun, significantly easier and more certain.

All in all, the stock furniture is usable, and doesn't really compromise anything. Been using them for years, so I can live with them.

Free Float rail:
I am now running a 12 and 9.5 DD FSP rail's. Iraqninja pointed out there many advantages. even if I only run a light, it give me more grip options, it eliminates out side influence on the gun, etc. Let's face it, run up 3 or 4 flights of stairs, then have to lean over rail to engage targets...you are going to rest that gun on the rail.
I can add the inexpensive light from earlier, then quickly move to a better light with little fanfare. I can add, remove or reposition, sling swivels, lights, VFG's, hand stops, MFAL's, rail cover/ladders all with out a lot of heartache.

After that, a a SF 212A flash suppressor and maybe a trigger. Gonna try the Colt low mass hammer and blue spring, just for shits and giggles.

I was a Colt guy for along time, still am I guess, but right now, if someone were to ask me what to get, I'd tell them one of DD offering, that come with a FF rail right off the bat.

Bob

JW1069

07-13-11, 10:53

It hasn't been brought up yet, so I wanted to revisit the "sling" choice.

Rob stated up-front that training would be a great idea for a new shooter (can't be stressed enough really). In anticipation of taking a carbine class(es), a new AR owner should rate the sling high on their list, even ahead of a weapon light. The reasoning is two-fold: First, lugging an AR around without a sling for a one or two day class is tiring and will detract from the learning experience. Second, you "know" you will employ the sling right away whereas a weapon light serves a situational purpose you likely will not engage in any time soon, particularly if you have other weapons (pistol, shotgun) already designated for HD duty. I'd want to be proficient with a weapon before designating it for defensive purposes. When that time comes, then it needs a weapon light mounted.

rob_s

07-13-11, 13:35

I guess it's time I post my own list...

I use my ARs for a combination of training, competing, enjoyment shooting, and theoretical self/home-defense (theoretical because I have never pulled the trigger in such a scenario), and occasional recreational shooting with friends/family or instructing new shooters. Not military combat, not police work, and NOT some EOTWAWKI fantasy.

1) Grip. It's gotten some negative attention in the thread, a lot of "why this first", etc. FOR ME the factory part is nearly intolerable, and if I'm going to be shooting the gun much I need some attention here, or my attention on the range will not be where it should be. I base this on my own experience training with an A2 and finding that my lunchtime there was a definite distraction. Blame it on my office-bitch hands if you want, but it's a reality for me. It is also CHEAP. Since part of the criteria here is that money is getting eeked out over time, <$20 to make the gun a much more comfortable tool in a training environment is money well spent.

2) Light Mount. I say "mount" because with the right mount I can attach my light from my pistols. If I didn't have a light for my pistols, I would get one at this stage two. If I didn't have a pistol before I bought the rifle, I'm ****ed up. IMO for anyone concerned with stateside defensive shooting, the pistol is the A#1 priority. As such I would have already gone through this entire process with the pistol, along with training, and adding a light to the pistol would have occurred somewhere in that process. (as would replicating the pistol so that I have two, not just one).

3) Sling. To begin with the carry strap that comes with the 6920 can be made to work even in a "tactical" way. I'm talking about learning the fundamentals and getting familiar with the gun and platform. Set to the right length it will work for just about everything but lateral transitions, and the right instructor can even show you ways to attach the sling and work around it that may even work for that. But, as one gets further into more dynamic shooting, a sling, and one that has a QD feature, would be a good, inexpensive upgrade (especially if you didn't already have the light and just dropped $200+ on a quality pistol light.

4) Optic. Red dot, preferably. I am not necessarily a proponent of learning irons first, but if you are on a budget that optic money can go other, more productive, places right out of the gate. However, at civilian engagement distances I don't think you can beat the RDS, and I have watched this fact play out over and over again both at our matches and at our drills nights where shooters get an almost instantaneous boost in overall speed thanks to the RDS. Distance shooting for the civilian is, IMO, a hobby not a practical pursuit, although it can be a good training evolution in which case you should be using your every-day sighting system anyway. Along with this, or at some point prior to this, I'd cut the stock carry handle down to make an effectively free (some time and a can of paint) rear BUIS.

5) Handguard system. Pick what you want; upgrade the plastic, get a smooth FF tube, get a railed system, shave the FSB and run a FF system out past it, whatever. if I was going to add a FF, I'd take the time to shave off the FSB or, IMO better still, buy one of the FSP cutout rails/tubes first to see if I even like the concept of the longer handguard, or if I do like it if I find that the stock FSP gets in my way or not.

6) Stock. Personally, I find this to be one of the most often changed and least consequential parts. If starting from scratch, assembling a new gun, etc. I might pick something else, but I really don't find a whole lot wrong with the M4 stock. I would, however, remove the sling swivel from it back at step one and instead thread the sling through the slot. That swivel digs into me at all the wrong times.

7) Revisit the Hanguard. See if I like the one I picked, see if I want to shave the FSB instead, etc.

8) BUIS set. Evaluate the entire carbine at this point and choose appropriate BUIS. If you like the fixed rear there are lighter choices. If you found the FSP to interfere with your support hand you can shave it and get another one. For the same overall rail/length you will get an overall lighter package if you shave the FSP and add a front BUIS.

9) Redimod. as an experiment. like a lot of people I go back and forth on these things, but I think for many people it's worth trying them. I know, I listed a specific brand, but they are the only ones that make them (well, Boonie Packer makes them, BFG makes them better) so I might as well state the brand.

markdh720

07-13-11, 13:53

My rifle is used for work, so it's purpose would be CQB, but here are my "must" modifications in order, regardless of the rifle's purpose:
1. Sling.
2. Light.
3. Enhanced/widened trigger guard.

My T-1 wasn't necesary, but it's a nice option. the rifle came with a Magpul handguard so I have't found the need for rails yet. Everything else (which I don't have) seems to involve comfort or fine-tuning. which aren't necesary but make shooting nicer.

DWood

07-13-11, 15:59

1) Grip. It's gotten some negative attention in the thread, a lot of "why this first", etc. FOR ME the factory part is nearly intolerable, and if I'm going to be shooting the gun much I need some attention here, or my attention on the range will not be where it should be. I base this on my own experience training with an A2 and finding that my lunchtime there was a definite distraction. Blame it on my office-bitch hands if you want, but it's a reality for me. It is also CHEAP. Since part of the criteria here is that money is getting eeked out over time, <$20 to make the gun a much more comfortable tool in a training environment is money well spent.

I understand this, but it really depends on the lower you start with. My LMTs came with Ergo grips which work fine for me. I did change one out for a MIAD just to test it but it's not because I had a problem with the Ergo.

rob_s

07-13-11, 17:03

I understand this, but it really depends on the lower you start with. My LMTs came with Ergo grips which work fine for me. I did change one out for a MIAD just to test it but it's not because I had a problem with the Ergo.

Note the original post. We aren't starting with an LMT lower, we are starting with a complete Colt 6920.

DWood

07-13-11, 17:33

Note the original post. We aren't starting with an LMT lower, we are starting with a complete Colt 6920.

OK, disregard my input since I don't have Colts.

Magic_Salad0892

07-13-11, 17:47

Note the original post. We aren't starting with an LMT lower, we are starting with a complete Colt 6920.

I used 6720 in my post. :p

rob_s

07-13-11, 18:00

OK, disregard my input since I don't have Colts.

You've misunderstood completely, so OK.

But in case anyone else is confused...

This is a hypothetical question. All of your current ARs are taken away, and you are given a stock Colt 6920 to modify as you see fit to match your current needs, knowing everything you know now. You are allowed one modification at a time. What order do you make them in? Not what brands do you use, but what parts do you change and in what order.

You do not need to include ammo, magazines, or training in the "modifications" list.

Iraq Ninja

07-13-11, 18:01

OK, disregard my input since I don't have Colts.

I think you are missing Rob's reasoning. He is trying to establish a baseline rifle to start from. Thus, the Colt is a good choice.

He wants Vanilla, not Cookies and Cream.

My LMT came with standard grips. :smile:

Your input is important, once you understand what we are starting with.

DWood

07-13-11, 18:46

I think you are missing Rob's reasoning. He is trying to establish a baseline rifle to start from. Thus, the Colt is a good choice.

He wants Vanilla, not Cookies and Cream.

My LMT came with standard grips. :smile:

Your input is important, once you understand what we are starting with.

The OP made it clear that I did not understand his premise so I'll drop out of this discussion since I don't have any experience with a Colt 6920.

I broke the old rule of RTFQ. Out. :smile:

Magic_Salad0892

07-13-11, 19:29

You've misunderstood completely, so OK.

But in case anyone else is confused...

This is a hypothetical question. All of your current ARs are taken away, and you are given a stock Colt 6920 to modify as you see fit to match your current needs, knowing everything you know now. You are allowed one modification at a time. What order do you make them in? Not what brands do you use, but what parts do you change and in what order.

You do not need to include ammo, magazines, or training in the "modifications" list.

I must have missed the part where you don't list the brand you prefer, or why. Alright let me start over:

Rail: 7'' carbine rail. For future additions.

Light Mount: 3 O'clock light mount. First, and foremost, the civilian ''M4'' must be a CQB, HD/SD gun, 25m or less, a light is absolutely the second most important thing on the gun, the first being bullets. You MUST be able to target identify.

Light: Read ''Light Mount'' annotation.

Pistol Grip/Trigger Guard: Helps me get a better angle on the trigger, which increases speed, and accuracy, until now, the stock A2 guard, and grip would be modified with RTV to cover the gap, and a dremel to get rid of the bump.

Ambi-Mag release: Ambidextrous function wins.

BUIS: For future mods to the rifle.

Stock: For more constant cheekweld, which helps me with speed. I'll go ahead and name brands here, because there are only like 2 which I feel are true improvements to the standard M4 stock. LMT SOPMOD, or VLTOR.

I prefer LMT.

Barrel: Cut it down to 11.5''. Keep .063'' gas port.

Receiver Extension: There is only one other option here. VLTOR A5, with standard A5H3 (5.1 oz.) buffer. Sprinco Spring.

Suppressor: SBR bark is downright obnoxious, and I prefer to keep my hearing intact, in HD scenario it'd be more pleasant to shoot indoors than an un-suppressed Mk. 18 type gun without hearing protection.

Optic: Variable optic. Covers all roles I'd want, all in one optic. Though for dedicated CQB a fixed 1X optic would rule the day.

Foregrip: Handstop. Helps me control the gun better. Gives me a reference point, for my hand. Helps with long term muscle memory.

Todd.K

07-13-11, 19:38

SD/HD and training rifle.

1) Trigger guard
I would install a Magpul enhanced trigger guard and grind the finger grove off the A2.

2) Light mount
I already have a light for a pistol so a few bucks for a rail section to bolt onto the factory plastic HG is well spent here.

3) RDS

4) Handguard
I'm way too cramped on a carbine length so I'd get this out of the way sooner rather than later. If I started with a mid length it would stay factory much longer.

5) BUIS set

6) Sling

R Moran

07-13-11, 20:04

EOTWAWKI fantasy.

fantasy??.........;)

Bob

nimdabew

07-13-11, 21:27

All of your current ARs are taken away, and you are given a stock Colt 6920 to modify as you see fit to match your current needs, knowing everything you know now. You are allowed one modification at a time. What order do you make them in?

1. VTAC 2 point padded sling

2. MI FSB rail mount

3. VTAC surefire light + Vltor scout mount

4. Troy rear folding

5. RDS of choice, probably M3 with ADM/Larue mount or the XPS with ADM mount if it survives my little test this weekend.

6. Magpur MIAD pistol grip

7. Magpur enhansed metal trigger guard

8. Centurian carbine FSB rail

9. Magpur RSA

10. Magpur CTR

11. four different shades of brown paint and one shade of light green in rattle can form

12. A bag of skittles

ETA: I don't see the reason to not add which one you prefer. "replace stock" is like saying "buying cell phone." Which cell phone matters just like which stock matters. If I were given a 6920, this is the order I would buy it in, and these are the exact things I would buy. #12 is very important BTW.

Axcelea

07-13-11, 21:34

EOTWAWKI fantasy.

It was worth googling :lol:

John_Burns

07-13-11, 22:42

This is a hypothetical question. All of your current ARs are taken away, and you are given a stock Colt 6920 to modify as you see fit to match your current needs, knowing everything you know now. You are allowed one modification at a time. What order do you make them in? Not what brands do you use, but what parts do you change and in what order.

You do not need to include ammo, magazines, or training in the "modifications" list.

So somebody is going to give me a 6920. I guess that sure beats a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.

It is easier for me to add a budget to this type of thought experiment because nowadays I would simply do what others have said and do everything from day one. Let’s say I can squirrel away $500 per month to devote to this project.

My use for the gun would include self defense, hunting, marksmanship practice, and recreational shooting.

My performance goals will be to be able to shoot a clean ½ and ½ drill and get consistent hits on coyote sized target to a minimum of 500yds and further would be better. I know exactly what I want to achieve these goals

My choice of optic and mounting setup will require me to save for about 3 months so I will do a few things first in the spirit of the thread so I have a gun to shoot right from the get go.

Month 1 and $500 would get me:

• Light. Pistol style 3 volt with slow strobe. I realize many don't see the value of the strobe but I can absolutely tell you that it has value in dealing with defense and animals. It may not save you but large carnivores will unquestionably like a strobe in the face less than a steady beam and you really have a very low risk of incoming fire in these situation. Short answer is if you have a Grizzly Bear in camp a strobing light might convince him to leave and not require a lengthy investigation from the USFW Service even in a justifiable shooting.

• MOE handguard and rail section as a means to mount the light. I will end up changing out this setup in the end but the relatively modest expense is worth it to me to have the light mount right now and for the next 3 months.

• Sling and mounts

• My finale handguard with the optic rail and mounts I will need for the scope. I won’t mount the handguard yet as it will require shaving the FSP and that will leave me with no sights of any type.

• Dyne Tek ceramic coating kit for both the bore and action. I know we are not supposed to mention brands but this is the only product of its kind and it just flat works. Cheap and easy to do.

I can’t shoot a clean ½ and ½ with irons and 500yd coyotes will be pretty safe but I now have a lot better defense gun than any handgun and it will be a gas to shoot.

Month 2

• MOE grip and trigger guard. Fixes the chewing that the stock setup gives me and lets me have a little something to do while I save for the optic and shoot the gun.

• Save for optic and shoot the gun

Month 3

• Save for optic and shoot the gun

Month 4

• Buy optic and mount using new handguard and mounts. I now have a viable hunting setup with real 500yds performance if the barrel is up to snuff. Odds are very good the factory barrel will shoot the 55 gr Nosler BT very well.

• Upgrade trigger

Now I have something very close to what I use now. I can run ½ and ½ drills clean and kill stuff a lot further away than many can with bolt action hunting rifles.

Month 5

• Replace the stock to reduce the wiggle as this will help on the precision end.

• A-5 Extension, Springco Green spring and 5 oz buffer.

• Adjustable gas block. Many won’t like this but with the carbine gas system it can be used to keep your brass in a little better shape and for my longer range precision use I like the advantage it offers to the handloader.

This is where I am at now and I keep wondering if I should lose my 5.56 chamber/chrome lined barrel in favor of a Wylde/ modified chamber and no chrome lining.

My Wylde chamber longer barrel gun will shoot the 75gr bullets with true precision while my experience with the NATO chamber and the 75gr loads has been less than inspiring. The 75gr secant ogive bullet offers another true 200yds of range and some really effective bullets (The Swift SII) if you want to shoot game with the AR or use it for defense against large carnivores.

My next experiment will most likely involve a nitrided barrel with the modified chamber. Maybe the best of both worlds (hard use durability with true LR precision with the 75gr secants).

In other words I would think about the barrel in month 6.