View Full Version : Advice on purchasing a pistol
TheSmiter1
07-09-11, 23:52
I currently only own a Ruger MkIII, and am going to purchase a pistol for concealed carry and range practice. I am having a difficult time deciding, though. It has been between a Glock 19, Glock 26, HK P2000, or HK P2000sk.
The HKs are a little expensive for me at the moment, and don't seem to be justifiable over the similar Glocks or even M&Ps. This leaves me mainly with the Glocks. I've also become aware of the newer Walther pistols, the PPS and PPQ, and am interested in those, but have not fired either of them.
I would like to be able to carry this pistol most places (maybe even while running; weight is not a factor for PT, only concealment), but I would also like to be able to use it at the range. I've never liked the chopped grips of subcompacts, and range use is not as enjoyable as a slightly larger pistol, where I am able to get a full grip.
I am seriously considering the PPS, as it seems to be very thin and ideal for concealed carry, but the Glock 19 is a good all-around weapon. I had one before, but I had to sell it. I didn't carry it concealed a whole lot, and never tested the limits of concealment with it.
Any advice or input on concealment factors, personal experience, and the overall best choice are appreciated.
RagweedZulu
07-09-11, 23:58
You can't go wrong with the Glock 19. Period. But you're going to hear a thousand replies here that will tell you to go rent them at a range and get what feels best.
I personally am a Glock Fanboy for the reliability, size, firepower, and cost effectiveness. But youve got to make the decision based on what YOU feel is right. Some guys hate Glocks but LOVE their H&Ks. Go figure.
titsonritz
07-10-11, 00:37
Glock 19
Hogsgunwild
07-10-11, 00:45
Glock 19 is great advice. The PPS is easier to conceal, but, if I understand your post correctly, you are a relatively new handgun shooter and you might be served better by having a larger weapon that would be easier to learn the basics on while still being a great carry weapon. I could see someone picking up some bad habits easier while practicing on a smaller pistol.
If you take a training course, my own inclination is to take a mid-sized or full sized handgun so that your time is spent learning technique instead of constantly reloading and struggling with the limitations of a sub-compact. The Glock 19 would cover you there.
Otherwise just buy the one you like the best and if it isn't what you hoped for, save up and buy the other one. I have done this for years.
As far as concealment goes, for me, inside of the waistband carry conceals better than OWB and a quality leather holster is more comfortable than Kydex. Kydex holsters are usually cheaper and easier to come by with a shorter wait time. When you find the position that the gun conceals in best with a Kydex holster, then you can confidently order a nice leather holster if you want a bit more comfort.
Buy a high quality gun belt from a gun holster manufacturer. Do not skimp on this. It is thicker, more rigid and basically imperative if you are serious about carrying.
I'm a dyed-in-the-wool revolver guy, and I despise the way Glocks feel in my hand. Hate-it-hate-it-hate-it.
Nevertheless, there is no better all-around handgun for concealed carry than the Glock 19. If you had one and liked it, buy another one.
A used 3rd gen G19 from prior to late 2010 would be a superb starting point.
I'm a big proponent of try before you buy. Every gun seems to have its fans but that doesn't really tell you if you will like it.
Personally, I'm a fan of the PPS for concealed carry. I like the PPS for what it is. However, in my opinion, it is easier to shoot 200 rounds or so of well aimed fire in a single range session with a bigger pistol like a Glock 17 than with the PPS.
Instead of it being a typical one or the other scenario, you'd probably be better served getting a good all around pistol and then getting a separate pistol specifically for times when you need a smaller, thinner pistol for concealment.
For what it's worth, if you have already had a Glock 19 and liked it, I think you have your answer as to what you should get first. You can always save some additional money and get a PPS down the road as your second pistol.
I'm 5'11'', 170 and I can't conceal a G19 comfortably in 99% of my wardrobe, hence why I bought the PPS. It's much much more comfortable than a G19, G26, the HK, or any of the guns you listed above. That being said, if I was big enough, or wore clothing that was less fitted and could carry something larger, I would probably consider it, only reason being the higher capacity.
The PPS shoots just as well as a full sized pistol for me, it's not uncomfortable for high round count range sessions, and is actually quite fun to shoot bc of it's accuracy for the size. If a mix of comfort and shootability is what you're looking for, I think the PPS is hard pressed to be beat. That's just my opinion based on my body type and clothing.
titsonritz
07-10-11, 03:08
I'm 5'11'', 170 and I can't conceal a G19 comfortably in 99% of my wardrobe,
Well quit wearing that spandex. :p
It is tough to beat a earlier Gen 3 G19 for all around use. Light, accurate, fairly inexpensive, and reliable to a fault. My G19 will NEVER be sold as other pistols come and go. With that said my H&K P2000SK is a tack driver and H&K's reliability is well known. They do cost more and it is more suited to my CCW role. My H&K USP Compact on the other hand fills the size role of my G19. It is heavier and more expensive but it too is a tack driver.
Remember that just because a pistol feels good in your hand does not always mean that you will shoot it well. Trying before buying can save a lot of buyer's remorse. And also don't expect that the first time you pick up a new pistol unless you are already a marksman that you skill that that firearm will be outstanding. Like everything in life practice makes perfect (or as close to perfect as your God given skills will allow). just my $.015
Good Luck on your journey.
I'm 5'11'', 170 and I can't conceal a G19 comfortably in 99% of my wardrobe, hence why I bought the PPS. It's much much more comfortable than a G19, G26, the HK, or any of the guns you listed above. That being said, if I was big enough, or wore clothing that was less fitted and could carry something larger, I would probably consider it, only reason being the higher capacity.
The PPS shoots just as well as a full sized pistol for me, it's not uncomfortable for high round count range sessions, and is actually quite fun to shoot bc of it's accuracy for the size. If a mix of comfort and shootability is what you're looking for, I think the PPS is hard pressed to be beat. That's just my opinion based on my body type and clothing.
Can you define "can't"? It sounds like you and I are the same size (I'm 2" taller and 5-10 lbs heavier) and I carry a Glock 19 quite frequently. I live in SE Florida so there isn't an option for a lot of heavy clothes, but I'm not wearing skinny jeans and a tank top either.
I currently only own a Ruger MkIII, and am going to purchase a pistol for concealed carry and range practice. I am having a difficult time deciding, though. It has been between a Glock 19, Glock 26, HK P2000, or HK P2000sk.
The HKs are a little expensive for me at the moment, and don't seem to be justifiable over the similar Glocks or even M&Ps. This leaves me mainly with the Glocks. I've also become aware of the newer Walther pistols, the PPS and PPQ, and am interested in those, but have not fired either of them.
I would like to be able to carry this pistol most places (maybe even while running; weight is not a factor for PT, only concealment), but I would also like to be able to use it at the range. I've never liked the chopped grips of subcompacts, and range use is not as enjoyable as a slightly larger pistol, where I am able to get a full grip.
I am seriously considering the PPS, as it seems to be very thin and ideal for concealed carry, but the Glock 19 is a good all-around weapon. I had one before, but I had to sell it. I didn't carry it concealed a whole lot, and never tested the limits of concealment with it.
Any advice or input on concealment factors, personal experience, and the overall best choice are appreciated.
You may find this link (https://docs.google.com/View?id=drnhb8z_130c5n5vpg5) helpful. The point of this article is NOT to tell you what to do, but to give you some things to think about and get your mind moving in the right direction.
You may find this link (https://docs.google.com/View?id=drnhb8z_130c5n5vpg5) helpful. The point of this article is NOT to tell you what to do, but to give you some things to think about and get your mind moving in the right direction.
Anther great article Rob.
brzusa.1911
07-10-11, 10:24
I had both the Glock 19 and 26, both gen 3. Sold the 19 and kept the 26. The 19 is awesome as is the 26, the advantage I see of the 26 over the 19 is that on my case I like to carry in front of my hip (1 o'clock to right handed or 11 o'clock for lefts). The longer barrel gets a little uncomfortable when seating.
I am not a big Glock fan as I don't shoot them well--but in my agency most of the female agents found them a good fit. My then 13 yr old daughter took to the G19 and a few years later did well with it at Gunsite. They work, the ergonomics are pretty good, parts are everywhere, they've got a track record. Just about as exciting as a Craftsman crescent wrench.
The short answer is it's hard to go wrong with one.
I'm just glad to be retired and don't HAVE to carry anything chosen by a committee anymore.
Nytcrawler93
07-10-11, 12:50
You really can't go wrong with a gen 3 Glock 19 or 26 or an xdm 3.8 compact, or a PPS 9mm. All carry well in an MTAC holster and are pretty easy to conceal. All are pretty reliable. Even a Gen 4 is reliable if you are carrying +P ammo. Make sure whatever you get, that you shoot at LEAST 250 rounds out of it and know that the ammo you carry will feed reliably and that YOU feel proficient enough to use it. And like everyone one else will say, train, train, train. Your body does what it is taught to do.
Nephrology
07-10-11, 13:02
I recommend either the 19 or the 26. You will want to own both eventually. trust me.
Beat Trash
07-10-11, 13:02
I'm 5'11" about 175, with a 31" waist. I can carry a Glock 19 all four seasons, with the proper holster.
For the OP, I'd suggest more of a general purpose size gun vs. one that was smaller to maximize concealment.
The Glock 19 size package is ideal for this. (I really like the Gen3 Glock 19's) The Sig 228 was also another gun that was in this size package. I have no experience with the HK 2000, so can't comment on it.
Picking a defensive gun is a very personal thing. Kind of like picking a wife. Asking for suggestions is a good way to obtain a starting point. But I'd go to a rental range and try out the guns you're interested in. With HK, you'd want to try both the LEM trigger and the DA/SA trigger variants.
The money you spend at a rental range would be a fraction of what you might spend only to have a gun that doesn't suit your needs.
Can you define "can't"? It sounds like you and I are the same size (I'm 2" taller and 5-10 lbs heavier) and I carry a Glock 19 quite frequently. I live in SE Florida so there isn't an option for a lot of heavy clothes, but I'm not wearing skinny jeans and a tank top either.
I guess I should say, I cant carry it IWB comfortably without printing excessively. I don't wear skinny jeans by any means, but my clothing is rather fitted. Fitted straight leg jeans with a V neck Tee shirt for example. Even the PPS prints slightly but not to where it screams gun!
The 19 and 26 are too thick for me (personal choice, it may not bother someone else) to conceal comfortably every single day, it honestly looks like I have a tumor growing out of my hip with them on, very noticeable. For me, 6 to 8 rds +1 is enough fire power for most situations I could imagine getting into for where I live and my daily routine, so the trade off in capacity for comfort was one I'm willing to make...and like I said, the PPS is a gun you can still shoot well, so I don't feel like I'm giving up anything in the accuracy department.
Well quit wearing that spandex. :p
Well that's just silly talk! Besides a gun isn't the biggest thing printing in my spandex anyways :lol:
theblackknight
07-10-11, 16:43
but I'm not wearing skinny jeans and a tank top either.
I call bullshit Hipster!
Not to derail, but tdoom, your choice of dress is the culprit not the gun. I'm bigger than you, but manage to hide a government model, with ease, with the Blade-Tech IWB and a buttoned-up, untucked shirt. No it's not always comfortable, but carrying requires adjustment and sacrifice. I choose full size guns and thus, adjust accordingly.
DiabhailGadhar
07-10-11, 18:27
Well that's just silly talk! Besides a gun isn't the biggest thing printing in my spandex anyways :lol:
Camel toe huh? Alot of people at the gym have that same problem. Atleast you're aware...:lol: Sorry I couldn't resist.
Anyway, I think either choice is a solid one. The cash saved on the Glock might be better spent on ammo/training/gear
I'm also going to go +1 for the going with a less compact/more capable firearm and adjusting attire accordingly..
Wouldn't that be a Moose's Knuckle?:smile:
I am going to be the oddball and say CZ 75 compact or CZ PO-1. I have had Glock and HK, I do not shoot any of them better than CZ. They are a bit more heavy than the poly guns, but I like a bit more heft in a smaller pistol because the weight reduces felt recoil. You might give them a look.
titsonritz
07-10-11, 19:38
What weapon/holster/belt combinations do you have experience with? It not just the weapon, all three are of equal importance.
I have been carrying a weapon on duty for 20 years and just as long off duty. My only words of advice would be is to find out what weapon you shoot well and feel comfortable with and go with that. I have carried a 1911, Berretta 92, Glock 22 and 27, Taurus titanium 5 shot snubby, and a Keltec 380. I carry one of the full size weapons 98% of the time in a Crossbreed IWB holster with no issues. I bought the .380 a while back thinking I would start carrying it on quick trips to the drive thru for beverage refills, but last year I was in line and a two local turds were scoping out the place. My heart sank when I realized all I had was a pocket gun w/6rounds and there were two turds getting ready to knock off the drive thru. I was actually more comforted by the fact that I was mentally prepared to run over the turds with my truck (justified deadly force is justifed, whether by firearm or alternate method)than confront them with a mouse gun. Because of that incident, it is duty (size) gun off duty for me. There is no "magic" holster that I'm aware of to make carrying comfortable. Choosing to carry concealed is going to dictate your choice of clothing style-no such thing as running shorts and a tank top anymore with a full sized weapon. The best solution I have found is the Crossbreed IWB holster, but I'm sure other guys have their favorites too.
What weapon/holster/belt combinations do you have experience with? It not just the weapon, all three are of equal importance.
Very true.
Carry belts are often overlooked in my experience. I prefer the 5.11 Instructor Belt. I used to wear a leather carry belt from Simply Rugged, but it stretched too much over time. Instructor belts like that from 5.11 and The Wilderness go along way to securing your firearm and other belt-mounted gear.
G19, the perfect balance between carry and a real shooting gun!
If you want to carry, you might not be able to wear the same fitted clothes. Just a fact. You could look at Kahr guns. No experience but others like them and the are thin profiled.
A used 3rd gen G19 from prior to late 2010 would be a superb starting point.
Doc, explain time frame again please and why? I bought a g19 last year. So wanted to knownif there are any watch outs?
DeathMetal
07-11-11, 11:32
My first attempt to carry concealed was a Commander XSE and it was too heavy and too bulky for my frame, I'm 6'3" 180 lbs. I then moved down in size to the Kahr PM9. It was light weight and thin perfect for IWB, OWB or Pocket carry. I just did not like the limited round count of the PM9. I then tried a G19 and found that it was almost as concealable as the PM9, I had to change my holster position a bit and wear slightly longer shirts but it works great now. My point is that it's going to take some trial and error before you figure out exactly what works for you.
If your hands are small enough G26 if not G19. Also the PX4 Sub is nice too.
TheSmiter1
07-11-11, 13:16
Looks like I'll be getting a Glock 19 in the next few weeks. My clothes aren't extremely tight, so I think I could pull it off. I'll have to decide on a holster and belt, too, but I'll figure that out as I'm familiarizing myself with the pistol.
Nephrology
07-11-11, 13:19
Looks like I'll be getting a Glock 19 in the next few weeks. My clothes aren't extremely tight, so I think I could pull it off. I'll have to decide on a holster and belt, too, but I'll figure that out as I'm familiarizing myself with the pistol.
For IWB I highly recommend the Comp-Tac MTAC.
Looks like I'll be getting a Glock 19 in the next few weeks. My clothes aren't extremely tight, so I think I could pull it off. I'll have to decide on a holster and belt, too, but I'll figure that out as I'm familiarizing myself with the pistol.
It's a Glock ...... point and shoot. lol
TheSmiter1
07-11-11, 14:51
For IWB I highly recommend the Comp-Tac MTAC.
The leather backing doesn't get in the way? I was thinking more along the lines of the CTAC or something similar from Raven.
Try a bunch of stuff, then buy a G19.
Okie John
mkmckinley
07-11-11, 16:13
I think most people tend to prefer guns similar to what they grewup shooting or have shot the most. A relatively new shooter like yourself is in the happy situation of not being used to any single gun leaving you free to pick any gun that hits the right combination of reliability, accuracy, and price. In fact coming from a Ruger MKIII might make the Glock grip angle more natural to you than some other designs. If you want to try other pistols in the same general class I'd say check out an M&P9, M&P9c, and and HK P30 LEM in addition to the Glock 19. If you decide on the Glock try to find a decent used one from pre-2010. There are databases you can look for that will tell you the year the pistol was made based on the serial number. If it's an M&P9 I highly recommend the Apex DCAEK kit for it. The FNX 9mm also looks decent but I have no experience with it. Whatever you do do some research and make up your own mind, don't let someone at the gun counter talk you into something they don't want. You're already on the right track by coming to this site for some of your information. The combined knowledge of the regulars puts m4carbine.net at the top of the pack.
goodoleboy
07-12-11, 07:23
I would probably go with the 19 or the 26. I am one of those guys who grew up shooting 1911s and swore I would never own anything else. I bought my first Glock last week and I know it is going to take some getting used to because of the different grip angle, trigger pull, etc. (all the muscle memory stuff). Once I retrain myself, I'll feel even better about my purchase. That being said, I'd probably go with the 19 in your case. I have hands like a catcher's mit, which doesn't work well with the 26, but the 19 has enough of a grip on it that I could hold onto it.
You can't go wrong with the Glock 19. Period. But you're going to hear a thousand replies here that will tell you to go rent them at a range and get what feels best.
Good advice on both accounts...can't go wrong with a 19, you might regret a 26 in terms of how it feels in your hand. Bottom line is, fondle everything. It's a petting zoo. Figure out what grip feels best, what you shoot best, what points naturally etc.
Remember though, most anything can be concealed with the proper holster/belt setup. I bought, and regretted, my 3" 1911. I shoot a lot and commanders and full size shoot so much better and aren't much harder to conceal. So no matter the brand, I'd go with a full size or compact first. Then try a subcompact later if you find yourself needing one. Happy hunting.
You can't go wrong with the Glock 19. ...............
First response nails it.
G19 is an excellent choice.
Im just going to start off by saying i shoot a glock 19. its very accurate and concealable. I would also say that if your military to look into the military discount they offer directly. It brings the price down to around 400-450 instead of the 600 range.:smile:
tacticalmonkey
07-12-11, 14:38
I own both a Glock 19 and 26, I like them both. I think the don't print very much. I had also looked at getting a thinner pistol. Liked the looks of the walther PPS. Have since shot one at the range, didn't like the way it felt when I shot it. I am glad I tested one out before I bought one. Also tested a Springfield EMP, loved it but just don't want to carry 1911 locked and cocked. So sticking with Glock 26.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
All these posts are good advice but one really has to decide if you will really carry and how much. If you really want to do this concealed all the time thing then one gun to fit all wardrobes and most people almost all of the time is the Kahr PM9 (only viable pocket gun on your list and can be carried in every other configuration). Next is a tossup between the PPS and the G26, depends if you want the thicker and shorter (both height and length) G26 or much thinner PPS (really a thin G19 in size). Next is the G19 the best all around gun--everything considered--but is definitely harder to conceal than the g26; however, many will find (depending upon carry position) that it is almost as easy as the PPS. The P2000 (get the flat base plates to make more concealable) is an awesome and proven piece of machinery (even in 40 cal) and oozes quality BUT is pretty darned thick (and heavy) for concealed carry--esp IWB. The same goes for the P2000SK (a lot of people get grip extenders with bigger mags but I would not recommend this--just get the P2000 instead if you want the longer grip/higher round count). However, 25,000 rounds later your going to be saying that the gun is an old faithful friend. It is also the only hammer and possibly DA/SA fired gun design in the lot and many like that (and many dont).
I would recommend the GALCO CB3 contour leather belt with the 1.5 to 1" taper (less than $85 at optics planet with coupon code) or one of those wilderness types. M-tac Minotaur is a nice IWB but a bit bulky for many with smaller waists. Also Glocks will need a new pair of sights. I would get the warren tactical rears and WT or Dawson fiber fronts. Make sure you get enough width daylight in the sights at least .035"
The leather backing doesn't get in the way? I was thinking more along the lines of the CTAC or something similar from Raven.
Get in the way of what?
The MTAC and CTAC are fairly similar. I currently have an MTAC and Phantom for my G19s and the MTAC gets more use as it is more comfortable.
Im just going to start off by saying i shoot a glock 19. its very accurate and concealable. I would also say that if your military to look into the military discount they offer directly. It brings the price down to around 400-450 instead of the 600 range.:smile:
Certainly take advantage of the discount if you qualify, but that said no one in a free state should be paying $600+ for a G19.
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_43/products_id/73204
Next is the G19 the best all around gun--everything considered--but is definitely harder to conceal than the g26; however, many will find (depending upon carry position) that it is almost as easy as the PPS.
Best IWB on the market IMO. Like I said, with the right belt/holster you can conceal anything
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=84770
I had a PM9 before, and an LCP...in addition to the Kimber and Glock. It was too complicated to try and figure out what to carry. With a good belt and holster you don't really have to worry, and can carry a larger, more reliable, accurate platform (4" barrel, more rounds, etc.)
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