View Full Version : For you techies - 3D Printing
platoonDaddy
07-12-11, 06:17
Guys...American ingenuity at it's best. Check out this video of a 3D Printer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZboxMsSz5Aw
There have been various 3D printers for years. In the last year or two they started making them smaller and cheaper though.
Z-corp is a little different in that they use plaster instead of plastic, and they can "print" relatively complex machines. They actually use bubble-jet print heads for the color and binder. I've seen that gear machine in person. All their vendors print one up to show customers.
That "infusing with resin" step is a big deal. The wrench would be almost mush without it. Notice they skipped that in the video.
montanadave
07-12-11, 07:04
That's the first time I've seen that sort of technology.
Stuff like that blows my mind.
Gutshot John
07-12-11, 07:52
If that blows your mind then check this out...
3d Printing of Human Organs...no more organ donors (http://www.economist.com/node/15543683)
My Architecture school (NJIT) had/has three Z-Corp machines. The powder bins were roughly a cubic foot and holy crap were they a mess. Anything we could "build" in 3D Studio Max or Solid Works we were able to print. All we had to do was purchase the HP printer cartridge. It would purge the black ink into a container on the bottom that held about a pint of ink which was to be discarded. The. It filled up the cartridge with binder and away it went.
It was a very very slow process as it would print by layers that were about 1/32 or an inch. Some models took 18+ hours to print.
Getting the model out was like being a paleontologist, sitting there with a brush and brushing away the fine dust to reveal what was made. Then we had to use another machine to dip the model in wax to make it stable.
Being 18-25 year olds clearly we got in trouble for printing inappropriate things. You will be surprised how many naken chick models you can find online in 3DS and SolidWorks formats lol
The engineering department had one one the Laser/Resin printers but we never got to play with that one. They also had a 5-Axis CNC that we did nit get to use. :-(
montanadave
07-12-11, 08:53
Being 18-25 year olds clearly we got in trouble for printing inappropriate things. You will be surprised how many naken chick models you can find online in 3DS and SolidWorks formats lol(
If you could have gotten your hands on the 3-D tissue printer Gutshot John linked above, you could have built a Kelly LeBrock (preferably the Weird Science version, not the more recent model). :lol:
We have been using that technology here at work for quite a few years. Simply one of the coolest thing I have ever seen.
3D printers really do amaze me.
Consider this. You can get home versions now. They are over $1000 but the price will eventually come down. Imagine being able to do this in your house. Gives home repair a whole new angle doesn't it.
I really want to see where this technology will go in the next 10-20 years.
Thomas M-4
07-12-11, 09:42
Yea they have been out for a few yrs. I got to see one running for 3d autocad students about 5yrs ago. That version didn't use powder but was feed with spool of plastic wire that it melted. They are more for prototyping I would rather to have a bench top CNC milling machine but the 3d printers are very :cool:.
The plastic spool ones have several limitations, not the least of which that it has to create plastic armatures to support the model in some areas while the plastic hardens or while the opposite side of an arch is created (or both).
the Z-corp plaster is self-supporting as it lays down a full layer of dust and then impregnates only the areas where there will be mass in the final model. The loose dust inside then serves to support the next layer. As you see in the video, color is only applied to the surfaces that will be external or visible in the final model.
I believe the ones we initially had a few years ago were the spool fed style. The Z-corp plaster ones certainly have a more finished look to the product when done also. Far more cost effective then growing a piece out of Titanium.
platoonDaddy
07-12-11, 10:18
Watching the video and then reflecting on its capabilities, maybe scan a woman that doesn't talk.
Thomas M-4
07-12-11, 10:46
The plastic spool ones have several limitations, not the least of which that it has to create plastic armatures to support the model in some areas while the plastic hardens or while the opposite side of an arch is created (or both).
the Z-corp plaster is self-supporting as it lays down a full layer of dust and then impregnates only the areas where there will be mass in the final model. The loose dust inside then serves to support the next layer. As you see in the video, color is only applied to the surfaces that will be external or visible in the final model.
Very true you had to cut the bridges to get the separate parts to move freely, or design it to be able to taken apart to install the separate moving parts.
I am not up to speed with the latest and greatest , I do see that there is a direct metal depositing system and a DMLS . But to me it would seem that the strength of the material would be something close to cast or mim parts. Maybe I am wrong like I said haven't keeping up with it.
If you could have gotten your hands on the 3-D tissue printer Gutshot John linked above, you could have built a Kelly LeBrock (preferably the Weird Science version, not the more recent model). :lol:
Indeed! Saw her on some morning show a few eels back talking about some hippie organic crap... It was downright sad how hard she hit the wall.
Maybe the Pre-Med guys have the tissue printers at the school now.
I was not into firearms back the otherwise I would have printed a whole AR from parts. Would have had to limit the barrel length to 10" to work o side the limitations of the printer. That would have really pissed off the liberal as hell architecture professors.
militarymoron
07-12-11, 12:44
rapid prototyping has been around a while, but the technology improves of course. RP was part of a class i took back in '97, and we also had a RP lab at work with stereolith machines. very cool technology.
the video is B.S., though, as pointed out in some of the comments. the scan works on line-of-sight, and will not be able to create any internal/hidden structure, like the dovetail that the wrench jaw has or the thumbscrew axis. you can scan a shape in, then add the other features to the model manually.
it's also obvious that the wrench that came out of the printer is different from the one scanned. they mentioned 40 microns accuracy, which is about .0015". that's reasonable, but it wouldn't account for the the completely different wrenches. they just printed out a wrench for which they had a model for :p
FromMyColdDeadHand
07-12-11, 13:18
Really interesting technology. I think the real win for it is not in trying to print current objects of goods, but to from the ground up design new objects and goods that simply can't be built currently technology.
There was a really good Economist article in a recent Technology quarterly (maybe 6-12 months ago) about the technology. (Found it!)
http://www.economist.com/node/18114221
Some proponents said that runs of 1000 or less were more economical to do by this kind of process and even mass production would be in reach in a few years. I don't think so. These are materials guys, but I don't think they have really wrapped their heads around everthing. Not everything is simple composition and can be laid down in small dots. A simple example would be fibers used to strengthen plastics. Nozzle that !
Like I said, for some applications and for goods designed from the ground up it could make some really interesting technology. Beyond plastics and metals, I think that some of the new super glasses and ceramics that are as tough as steel but even harder and stronger would be a real interesting technology.
Thomas M-4
07-12-11, 15:09
Really interesting technology. I think the real win for it is not in trying to print current objects of goods, but to from the ground up design new objects and goods that simply can't be built currently technology.
There was a really good Economist article in a recent Technology quarterly (maybe 6-12 months ago) about the technology. (Found it!)
http://www.economist.com/node/18114221
Some proponents said that runs of 1000 or less were more economical to do by this kind of process and even mass production would be in reach in a few years. I don't think so. These are materials guys, but I don't think they have really wrapped their heads around everthing. Not everything is simple composition and can be laid down in small dots. A simple example would be fibers used to strengthen plastics. Nozzle that !
Like I said, for some applications and for goods designed from the ground up it could make some really interesting technology. Beyond plastics and metals, I think that some of the new super glasses and ceramics that are as tough as steel but even harder and stronger would be a real interesting technology.
That was a good read thanks for the link.
Thomas M-4
08-03-11, 21:10
I came across the video today and thought that some of you might be interested in it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFFFiB_if18&feature=player_embedded
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-04-11, 01:49
I came across the video today and thought that some of you might be interested in it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFFFiB_if18&feature=player_embedded
That's what I'm talking about. Now if they had printed supports across the body cavity where there is dead space, imagine the strength (and potential lightness) it would have. The printing the moving parts in place is really cool, till the plane crashes and breaks and you can't fit them back together- kind of a unique problem for this application.
Thomas M-4
08-04-11, 11:49
That's what I'm talking about. Now if they had printed supports across the body cavity where there is dead space, imagine the strength (and potential lightness) it would have. The printing the moving parts in place is really cool, till the plane crashes and breaks and you can't fit them back together- kind of a unique problem for this application.
They actually did print supports in the fuselage.
See at :38 seconds That style of fuselage support was first done to the Avro Lancaster I do believe. It should allow for an open interior space in the fuselage. I do not know if that style is lighter or more stronger than the style you are talking about.
It is :cool:
My bad not the Avro but it was used on the Vickers Wellington
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Vickers_Wellington_Mark_X%2C_HE239_%27NA-Y%27%2C_of_No._428_Squadron_RCAF_%28April_1943%29.png/220px-Vickers_Wellington_Mark_X%2C_HE239_%27NA-Y%27%2C_of_No._428_Squadron_RCAF_%28April_1943%29.png
Geodesic airframe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geodesic_airframe
SLS, SLA, FDM or whatever the new trend its all about the ability to design and draw what you want in 3D like Solid Works or ProE.
Problem today is simply that, more and more designers are designing by their ability to draw or draft rather than their vision.
I still prefer the old school way of working with a pattern maker especially for organic shapes. I prefer to be in control of the shape rather than the computer which at times guesses wrong.
Rapid prototyping is pretty cool and has cut months of the development cycle for most products.
Guys...American ingenuity at it's best. Check out this video of a 3D Printer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZboxMsSz5Aw
Here's another cool thing.
www.lytro.com
You can take a picture, then zoom on different parts of the picture afterwards.
rapid prototyping has been around a while, but the technology improves of course. RP was part of a class i took back in '97, and we also had a RP lab at work with stereolith machines. very cool technology.
the video is B.S., though, as pointed out in some of the comments. the scan works on line-of-sight, and will not be able to create any internal/hidden structure, like the dovetail that the wrench jaw has or the thumbscrew axis. you can scan a shape in, then add the other features to the model manually.
it's also obvious that the wrench that came out of the printer is different from the one scanned. they mentioned 40 microns accuracy, which is about .0015". that's reasonable, but it wouldn't account for the the completely different wrenches. they just printed out a wrench for which they had a model for :p
That scanning tool they used is a complete piece of shit too. Never worked, not even as they showed. I had access to a Zcorp machine and a few others during my last two semesters of college. The Zcorp ones are cheaper, but less useful in my eyes. Rapid prototyping is pretty cool though, I had hoped to get a job with access to the stuff, but that hasnt happened yet.
SLS, SLA, FDM or whatever the new trend its all about the ability to design and draw what you want in 3D like Solid Works or ProE.
Problem today is simply that, more and more designers are designing by their ability to draw or draft rather than their vision.
I still prefer the old school way of working with a pattern maker especially for organic shapes. I prefer to be in control of the shape rather than the computer which at times guesses wrong.
Rapid prototyping is pretty cool and has cut months of the development cycle for most products.
I am working on a few firearms products that will be printed and 100% usable, except for heat resistance, upon delivery.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.